Interesting to see the new section on the home page, listing the top 15 abums. Some questions occur to me though:

What's the criteria?

Is it based on all the ratings, just those which include reviews etc.?

Is there a minimum number of ratings required, to avoid albums with a single five star review from qualifying.

Will the chart be updated from time to time?

I wonder if the current number one reflect the views of the forum. I'm just prompting debate here, I haven't heard it yet so i can't really comment. It does surprise me though that an album which might be considered a fringe one in prog terms should be number one.

WARNING thoses are not the TOP 15 album
but only the MOST POPULAR.

Based on the suggestion of Fitz, here is the algorithm to calculate them:

• Total average rates x Nb. of rates

This is only for fun and for information. Do you have another way to calculate
what can be named the BEST ALBUMS rated by visitors ?

Thanks

Interesting stuff Max, it's certainly a good idea! (I started this thread in the general discussion section, to stimulate discussion on the content of the list, but perhaps it should be moved to the suggestions for the archives pages.)

It is intriguing that "Train of thought" seems to have done so well because so many people have rated it, almost twice as many as have rated "Close to the edge". "Close to the edge" appears to be far more highly thought of though, with over 90% of ratings being either 4 or 5 stars.

I think "popular" is probably the wrong word, as theoretically, an album with a thousand ratings, all of one star, could end up in the listings. 

The risk with any such chart is that it gets "nobled" through messages being posted on forums for the indivdual bands, urging fans to "vote" for that band, so flooding the site with high ratings for their albums.

I would suggest that the "best" albums should be identified by taking a straight average of the Collaborators ratings, provided a minimum of say 10% (or whatever figure is thought appropriate) of the collaborators have rated (and reviewed?) the album.

I'll shut up now, and let others have their say!

Currently only 5 bands feature in the top 15 :

Pink Floyd ,Yes ,Genesis,King Crimson and Dream Theater

I'm slightly preturbed by the lack of ELP and Rush in there! (not to mention many other bands)

Dont forget richardh that most worldwide prog fans only know these bands, in my country for instance only few like ELP, ruch or zappa, besides these 5 bands are more adequate to most fans in young age. Bands like Dream theatre and Pink Floyd are also popular among all metal fans in general and it takes a pure progressive listener to like bands like ELP and marillion. And in my country, if you entered a music store you rarely find prog bands other than these 5 beside some fish and marillion albums.  I think these five bands are more "international" if you know what i mean.

It broke my heart there were no Marillion, ELP or Camel albums in the list though 

Easy Livin wrote: I would suggest that the "best" albums should be identified by taking a straight average of the Collaborators ratings, provided a minimum of say 10% (or whatever figure is thought appropriate) of the collaborators have rated (and reviewed?) the album.

Let's try the results ...

TOP 15 by COLLABORATOR ratings only
(interesting)

Column 1 : Rating Avg.
Column 2: Total Avg. Rates
Column 3: Nb. Rates
Column 4: CD ID
Column 5: band + CD TITLE

4 77 17 3 Genesis Nursery Cryme
4 75 16 2 Genesis Foxtrot
4 73 16 1510 Genesis Selling England By The Pound
5 60 12 69 Anglagard Hybris
4 57 12 1827 Yes Close to the Edge
4 56 12 2019 Jethro Tull Thick As A Brick
4 55 12 1438 Pink Floyd Meddle
4 54 12 1442 Pink Floyd Animals
4 50 12 1437 Pink Floyd Atom Heart Mother
5 50 10 1440 Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon, The
4 50 11 1825 Yes Fragile
4 49 11 70 Anglagard Epilog
4 48 11 1872 Emerson Lake & Palmer (ELP) Brain Salad Surgery
4 48 11 1826 Yes The YES Album
4 46 11 1914 King Crimson Discipline

TOP 50 : Collaborator Only

Column 1 : Rating Avg.
Column 2: Total Cumulative Rates
Column 3: Nb. Rates
Column 4: CD ID
Column 5: band + CD TITLE

4 77 17 3 Genesis Nursery Cryme
4 75 16 2 Genesis Foxtrot
4 73 16 1510 Genesis Selling England By The Pound
5 60 12 69 Anglagard Hybris
3 44 12 2448 Genesis Trespass
4 56 12 2019 Jethro Tull Thick As A Brick
4 50 12 1437 Pink Floyd Atom Heart Mother
4 55 12 1438 Pink Floyd Meddle
4 54 12 1442 Pink Floyd Animals
4 57 12 1827 Yes Close to the Edge
4 49 11 70 Anglagard Epilog
4 48 11 1872 Emerson Lake & Palmer (ELP) Brain Salad Surgery
4 46 11 1914 King Crimson Discipline
4 50 11 1825 Yes Fragile
4 48 11 1826 Yes The YES Album
4 44 10 328 Camel Mirage
3 37 10 344 Camel Harbour Of Tears
4 43 10 3108 Caravan In the Land of Grey and Pink
3 39 10 227 Collage Moonshine
4 40 10 1511 Genesis The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway
3 38 10 1513 Genesis Second Out
1 17 10 1517 Genesis Abacab
4 45 10 1147 Gentle Giant In a Glass House
4 41 10 609 IQ The Wake
4 45 10 1903 King Crimson In the Court of the Crimson King
4 42 10 1911 King Crimson Red
4 44 10 890 Marillion Misplaced Childhood
5 50 10 1440 Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon, The
4 45 10 1441 Pink Floyd Wish You Were Here
3 39 10 1443 Pink Floyd The Wall
4 41 10 1829 Yes Relayer
2 23 9 4337 Asia Asia
3 31 9 155 Balletto di Bronzo, Il Ys
4 41 9 170 Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso Io Sono Nato Libero
4 37 9 191 Celeste Principe di un Giorno
4 37 9 1870 Emerson Lake & Palmer (ELP) Pictures at an Exhibition
2 24 9 6 Genesis From Genesis To Revelation
4 37 9 1512 Genesis Wind And Wuthering
4 37 9 819 Locanda Delle Fate Forse le lucciole non si amano più
3 34 9 1766 Marillion Brave
4 39 9 967 Museo Rosenbach Zarathustra
4 36 9 4488 Oldfield, Mike Tubular Bells
4 37 9 1138 Quella Vecchia Locanda Il Tempo Della Gioia
3 35 9 1266 Spock's Beard The Light
4 39 9 1417 Van der Graaf Generator Pawn Hearts
3 35 9 3967 Wakeman, Rick The Six Wives of Henry VIII
4 35 8 330 Camel Moonmadness
4 34 8 347 Camel Rajaz
4 32 8 288 Echolyn As The World
4 32 8 511 Eloy Ocean

TOP 50 : All ratings (collaborator + visitors )

Column 1 : Rating Avg.
Column 2: Total Cumulative Rates
Column 3: Nb. Rates
Column 4: CD ID
Column 5: band + CD TITLE

3 602 160 3777 Dream Theater Train Of Thought
4 406 85 1827 Yes Close to the Edge
4 348 72 1510 Genesis Selling England By The Pound
4 293 67 1829 Yes Relayer
4 314 66 1672 Dream Theater Scenes From A Memory Metropolis Part II
4 292 62 2 Genesis Foxtrot
4 287 61 1662 Dream Theater Images And Words
4 256 56 1440 Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon, The
4 258 56 1825 Yes Fragile
4 226 53 1828 Yes Tales From Topographic Oceans
4 227 51 1511 Genesis The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway
4 220 50 1443 Pink Floyd The Wall
4 227 50 3 Genesis Nursery Cryme
4 227 49 1903 King Crimson In the Court of the Crimson King
4 222 48 1911 King Crimson Red
4 209 47 1826 Yes The YES Album
4 215 46 328 Camel Mirage
4 215 45 329 Camel The Snow Goose
4 208 45 1441 Pink Floyd Wish You Were Here
4 207 45 1442 Pink Floyd Animals
4 175 42 1512 Genesis Wind And Wuthering
4 202 42 2019 Jethro Tull Thick As A Brick
4 164 41 2448 Genesis Trespass
4 181 41 3070 Rush 2112
4 173 41 1433 Pink Floyd Piper at the Gates of Dawn, The
4 191 40 330 Camel Moonmadness
4 177 40 5 Genesis A Trick Of The Tail
3 159 40 2177 King Crimson The Power To Believe
4 186 39 2018 Jethro Tull Aqualung
4 183 39 3076 Rush Moving Pictures
3 135 39 1444 Pink Floyd Final Cut, The
4 178 39 1438 Pink Floyd Meddle
3 147 39 1446 Pink Floyd Division Bell, The
4 170 38 1513 Genesis Second Out
4 174 38 3073 Rush Hemispheres
4 168 37 1909 King Crimson Larks' Tongues in Aspic
4 154 36 1914 King Crimson Discipline
4 172 36 1995 Porcupine Tree In Absentia
4 150 36 2022 Jethro Tull A Passion Play
2 80 36 1517 Genesis Abacab
4 148 36 1437 Pink Floyd Atom Heart Mother
3 126 35 1515 Genesis And Then Then There Were Three...
4 164 35 1666 Dream Theater Awake
4 154 35 1623 Dream Theater Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
4 141 35 327 Camel Camel
4 149 35 1905 King Crimson Lizard
3 121 35 1832 Yes Tormato
4 159 35 1872 Emerson Lake & Palmer (ELP) Brain Salad Surgery
3 111 34 1836 Yes 90125
4 150 33 1831 Yes Going for the One

Hey thanks for putting those list together Max.

Finally a top 50 I can relate to!

I don't get it... How do you calculate it?

3 44 12 2448 Genesis Trespass
4 56 12 2019 Jethro Tull Thick As A Brick

4 x 12 is more than 3 x 12.

So why is Trespass higher than Thick As A Brick?

They are ordered by the TOTAL CUMULATIVE RATE (STARS) VALUE

ex: 3 rating for an album

Rating 1: 4 stars
Rating 2: 5 stars
Rating 3: 3 stars

Total Cumulative Rate Value is 4+5+3 = 12

Suggestions are welcomed ...

ELP's first 6 albums should be in the top 50 list IMO. I would expect something like:

Brain Salad Surgery -top 5 (with Close To The Edge,Foxtrot etc)

Trilogy/Tarkus - top 20

Welcome back my friends.. -top 40

Pictures../ELP - top 50 at least

Perhaps though I need to fill in the gaps! (probably my top 10 would be full of Genesis and Yes albums -ELP were not as consistent as those bands if I'm being honest -which I am!)

ohh Richard... I'm so disappointed! 

I would have put the first 6 ELP... ELPowell and Black Moon in the top 50.

The first 6 would have been in my top 15.

I guess it is a matter of opinion.. cause other than Close to the Edge.. I didn't find that Yes was that consistent over a complete album...

To me even with the comedic relief tunes of Are You Ready Eddy, Jeremy Bender or Benny the Bouncer.. ELP's first 5 albums were very consistent in brilliance. I also include Works in that now cause I've come to really appreciate Carl's side, when I didn't when it was first released.

I thnk my favorite comedic relief song of ELP's tho.. is "Taste of my Love"... that always cracks me up and has me ROTFL..

Well these days .. if you go over to Pink Floyd's official forum all you will find is mostly kids under 18, so PF still has the ability to appeal to the younger generation.  That seems to be one of their talents.. their songs aged well and they always seem to be able to keep a fresh fanbase..

I think I would also include The Strawbs "Ghosts", PFM's "Photos of Ghosts";  Gryphon's "Red Queen to Gryphon Three".. and Jon Anderson's "Olias of Sunhillow".. in my top 50

MAX@ wrote: They are ordered by the TOTAL CUMULATIVE RATE (STARS) VALUE ex: 3 rating for an album Rating 1: 4 stars Rating 2: 5 stars Rating 3: 3 stars Total Cumulative Rate Value is 4+5+3 = 12 Suggestions are welcomed ...

I don't really like the fact that there are so many albums from the same band in the list... maybe we could make a list of the fifteen most popular bands, and their ONE most popular album... to get some more diversity

After all, I think the list is meant to encourage people who are new to prog to check out the best albums from the best groups... as many different groups as possible... because after you've heard one album from a band, you can decide for yourself if you want to hear more of them.

what do you say?

Everyone:

The whole point of my original suggestion to MAX@ to create an album popularity list was to show what is actually popular, not what you *think* is popular or what you think should be recommended. If you want a list of recommendations, that's fine but it should be a separate list.

I actually prefer mailto:MAX@'s - MAX@'s first list for the entire set of reviews in ProgArchives, rather than the list for just the Collaborators. Why shouldn't the opinion of the entire community be represented, rather than just the select few? For example, I would much rather see a list taking into account thousands of reviews than hundreds of reviews. Statistically, the bigger the sample, the more representative it is of the population.

As to the comments earlier in this thread re ELP, the first list shows that that band is simply not as popular as others. I'm an avid ELP fan, but recognise that other albums are more popular and it does not bother me.

In summary, my personal opinion is that the original list was more interesting than a list only taking into account the Collaborators' reviews.

Fitzcarraldo wrote: I actually prefer mailto:MAX@'s - MAX@'s first list for the entire set of reviews in ProgArchives, rather than the list for just the Collaborators. Why shouldn't the opinion of the entire community be represented, rather than just the select few? For example, I would much rather see a list taking into account thousands of reviews than hundreds of reviews. Statistically, the bigger the sample, the more representative it is of the population.

Fitzcarraldo,

I agree with you up to a point. My concern would be though that the site gets "spammed". You know how it is, whenever a new poll is launched by a website, websites representing bands with an interest alert those who have registered with them, urging them to vote for their band. A recent example was the push for Yes to be included in the R&R hall of fame (which I support!). If the Dream Theater (and I don't mean to single them out, it's just an example) site writes to all it's members urging them to go onto this site and give "Train of thought" five stars, this could easily have a misleading affect on the "popularity" indicators. Remember that an album can be rated without the need to support it with a review.

By restricting the survey to just the collaborators, we can at least be sure that it represents the views of those who have in some way demonstrated their love of prog. No system is perfect, but I think we should at least be aware of the increased risk of the site being misused if the encouragement is there to do so.