The American Politics Thread
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Topic: The American Politics Thread
Posted By: JJLehto
Subject: The American Politics Thread
Date Posted: February 07 2017 at 23:19
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We thought 2016 was a ride...apparently that's nothing compared to what 2017 has in store! So new year, new thread, maybe a permanent one? After all political discussion will continue past 2017, if the world makes it past 2017  Let's start off with a bang! Possibly from the guns soon to be allowed in schools for bear protection! Betsy DeVos was confirmed, the vote went as expected: 50-50 with Pence breaking the tie. Every Democrat opposed, joined by Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins. No shocker, no others broke rank. Some felt that Dean Heller of NV or Pat Toomey of PA might break since they represent blue states, especially Toomey. Oh poor poor Republicans, I do feel bad. They think these people care a lick about their constituency. I know her direct impact may be minimal, and with 48 Democrats I can't imagine something extreme like abolishing the Dept of Ed getting through, but I do fear with this Congress what may happen with public education. The right may get a step closer to their dream of mostly private education, the "level foundation" and vehicle for meritocracy becoming a tool for the well off to better themselves, while all else can either for out thousands or get left behind. The guns may be needed in what remains of public schools...it'll become Mad Max in there On some better news: Trump's pick for Sect of Labor, Andrew Pudzer has admitted to hiring an undocumented worker as his housekeeper. Given that this same thing has forced nominees (from both parties) to drop out, and Trump's stance on undocumented workers...seems like this may be tough to reconcile. Add to it his extremely anti labor views, perhaps our only chance to see a Trump nominee fail. Finally: San Francisco makes all city colleges tuition free, paid for with a tax on properties worth over $5 million. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/02/07/san-francisco-announces-free-community-college-all-residents/97591606/" rel="nofollow - http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/02/07/san-francisco-announces-free-community-college-all-residents/97591606/ Apparently this will cover all current students, plus a 20% increase, and low income students will be provided with $250. The progressives are continuing the fight  |
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: February 08 2017 at 01:21
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As American Politics has entered an era of self-parody this thread should be moved to JFF ------------- What? |
Posted By: Prog Snob
Date Posted: February 08 2017 at 02:36
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It's not really about banning public education. It's about slimming its girth. It's about there being so liability instead of teacher's always being able to hide behind their unions regardless of their actions. http://reason.com/blog/2017/02/07/betsy-devos-confirmed-as-education-secre ------------- 
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: February 08 2017 at 07:01
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I just read this: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/02/07/my-daughters-death-will-not-be-used-parents-furious-over-trumps-false-terror-claims" rel="nofollow - http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/02/07/my-daughters-death-will-not-be-used-parents-furious-over-trumps-false-terror-claims what a disgrace to Trump! -------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: February 08 2017 at 07:58
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Dean wrote:Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 08 2017 at 12:34
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Yeah, sometimes you just gotta laugh! ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: February 08 2017 at 12:46
True, but there are 7,080,857,996 of us who don't live there.  ------------- What? |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 08 2017 at 13:12
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Thank God for small favors. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: February 08 2017 at 17:08
Several responses. First, maybe you are sincere in that belief, as are others, (and indeed I know liberals even who are wary of the teachers union) BUT don't kid yourself that is what will happen, that is the goal. Even if you and reasonable people don't share or want that, you will be used for it. The want IS to have a mostly private education system, either forcing middle/working class families to spend extra thousands of dollars on it OR force em into what remains of public schools, which will be pretty dreadful. Leading to point number two: There is nothing inherently wrong with public schools, they just don't get funded. That article mentions the deplorable public schools in cities that many poor minorities have to deal with...that makes it sound like it's inevitable. That is foolish. What has happened with city public schools is what has happened with cities in general: People move out, leaving them starved. People have moved into surburbs, then exurbs, into different pockets of town, they keep moving to stay away from whatever they dont want, OR so they can keep their income more for themselves and not spend it on others. Which is rational and understanding, and since we can't control how people move and live, that's I think government investment is necessary but that's for another time. But yeah there's nothing wrong with public schools in themselves. Think about why test scores and income tend to sync up, why schools in poor areas are bad while schools in more affluent areas are good. It's kind of obvious the problem. Also I fear mass private schooling will lead to, well what happens with all privatization: the best benefits accumulate at the top, for those who can best afford it. I have already read about charter schools moving from their traditional poor urban areas into more middle class and affluent ones. With private incentives, why wont better teachers flow there as well? More resources. By removing the level foundation and making it "market based" it'll just lead to inequality of opportunity in education, which is supposed to be the one equalizer. Three: We have choice already. There are private schools, you can send your kid to one if you want. Yes you'd have to pay for it but don't force that upon the rest of us. Public education is for the public good, if you want to go private fine, but you pay on top of it. But the choice is there, this choice idea is silly, its a cover itself for the real intention: people just dont wanna pay for others' stuff. Finally: I get why perhaps there may concern with the teachers union, I think its unfair to teachers themselves the vitriol. Remember, these people have to go to college, get 4 year degrees and do very important work, perhaps the most critical for society. They deal with a lot and it's not like they're living high end lives. Is the teachers union too powerful? I honestly don't know, given the crud most I know deal with and how burned out they get their incomes (and NJ was a very generous state for teachers) I find it hard to believe. But maybe. Is tenure a luxury and it makes it too hard to remove bad teachers? Yes of course. I have seen personally how it's damn near impossible to get a teacher removed, hell it can be near impossible to even get them moved (or even the child moved!) even if the teacher could be called a bully. And I've seen the damage that can do to someone.... Was it enraging to see a teacher who's caused multiple children over the years to have mental breakdowns finally get pushed into retirement after years? Of course. But as they say, dont throw the baby out with the bath water. Especially since many teachers are good. If your issue is solely tenure, how hard it is to remove them if needed, OK...that's not unreasonable. But don't look for more extreme options, and remember they are working people too, ones that do essential work. As state employees, they are directly hurt by necessary budget cuts. If you want to trim the girth OK I can work with that, but the way things are going/ideas out there is not that, it's just a push for privatization, to the benefit of well off people and investors...hedge funds, Goldman Sachs, finance always itching to get more charter schools. There is clearly a reason for this. Don't throw the baby (or children?) away with the bathwater over a few issues.
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: February 08 2017 at 17:27
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So those hoping for change in the area of foreign policy (not sure why any would think that) or that "Well he may be better than Clinton at least" can continue lamenting their choices. Trump has thus far been very supportive of Saudi Arabia and Israel (which some thought he'd be different on) and now: his first Benghazi moment. http://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/07/world/middleeast/yemen-special-operations-missions.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0" rel="nofollow - http://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/07/world/middleeast/yemen-special-operations-missions.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0 The Yemen raid, Trump's first foray into foreign policy seems to have been a flop and the country has withdrawn permission for the US to run anti terrorist missions. Yup, he's charging into interventionism! Just like all the other swampy politicians people were hoping he'd be different from. Hope everyone is happy...all the edgy/apathetic liberals, hope this is what you wanted.
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Posted By: infocat
Date Posted: February 09 2017 at 00:05
------------- -- Frank Swarbrick Belief is not Truth. |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: February 10 2017 at 00:25
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Yesterday Jefferson Beauregard Sessions was confirmed as Attorney General, 52-47. A near strict party line, Joe Manchin went yes. Sessions has a mixed to poor (being polite ) history on civil rights, voting rights and civil liberties. For decades he has been dogged by the NAACP and ACLU, claims of racism, and in 1986 failed to make it out of a Republican led committee, with a former supporter voicing concern over his ability to be fair and impartial. The guy has publicly praised the 1924 immigration act, the one capping immigration and targeting specifically Southern & Eastern Europe, Africa and flat out excluded Asians entirely. You can't make this up. http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/jeff-sessions-1924-immigration/512591/" rel="nofollow - http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/jeff-sessions-1924-immigration/512591/ Anyway, he's made his first speech as AG. He feels the recent uptick in crime is a "dangerous permanent trend" that places our health and safety at risk. Sessions is correct, there has been an uptick in homicides. However, there is no rise in overall crime, and that uptick really is quite small and has been driven mostly by spikes in two cities: Chicago and Charlotte. Pure fear mongering. http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/02/09/sessionss-first-comments-as-attorney-general-inflated-u-s-crime-problem/?utm_term=.0698e95003f2" rel="nofollow - http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/02/09/sessionss-first-comments-as-attorney-general-inflated-u-s-crime-problem/?utm_term=.0698e95003f2 |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 10 2017 at 13:57
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 11 2017 at 09:25
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Let's rebuild the DNC. Now! Ok, I've stressed endlessly that I see minorities, so far, as sitting out on this Trump indignation until they've had enough and get back into the fight. But at the moment, the DNC is at a fork in the road as to the direction the party is to take. The DNC chair is up for takes. Populist or Centrist? Bernie and Elizabeth? Or more of the Hillary crowd? Which way should the DNC go?
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 11 2017 at 09:39
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what I am seeing and reading Steve.... the people are taking this over. The DNC is immaterial at this point. Trump has done what I had hoped they would.... mobilized, organized, and energized people as the DNC never could. I saw a great quote... we are seeing a reverse Tea Party movement starting.. at the grassroots level. “Trump is not popular, he does not have a mandate. He does not have large congressional majorities. If a small minority in the Tea Party could stop President Obama, then we the majority can stop a petty tyrant named Trump.” http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/protest-movement-republicans-234863" rel="nofollow - http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/protest-movement-republicans-234863 Warren is going to run... that is plainly evident... and regardless of what the DNC does. She will tap into this grassroots movement. wait... she is the hero and inpiration of much of it herself. she is the political face of it. Even Republicans are being boo'd and shouted down... IN THEIR OWN DISTRICTS.... unless Trump does a 180 and who really thinks he will.. he could be the progressive and liberal wet dream. Inspried the silent apatheitc majority to finally take control. I've already seen hints among the experts that 2018 may be an interesting off year election...lord knows we've seen massive off year blow backs against unpopular Presidents... sow ye oats while you still have power GOP.. you may not be there in Congress too long. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 11 2017 at 09:46
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I definitely feel the support of a movement in the making. But how to unite the people with the DNC when the DNC is so weak right now? How to channel this energy and not waste it, is very worrying to me. Perhaps it will come together organically. (While the Beatles' "Come Together" plays in my head! ) ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 11 2017 at 09:52
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that is the parallel with the Tea Party.... the RNC had nothing to do with it.. in fact they tried to fight against that grassroots movment. The DNC either gets on board... or not... but the comparison end that the Tea Partiers were a small segment of the Republican Party.. this movement.. could be a entire party... the leftward shift we thought would come after HIllary.. but Trump may have acceleraed. Driven in part by Warren who is a hero among many, including I might add my HIllary hating best friend who couldn't vote for her (thankfully in Va. so it didn't matter haha). Even pro-gun as he is... he has said the same as I have.. he'd go through a brick wall to see her elected. She is the anti-Trump... inspriratial.. fiery and able to tap into populism which of course is a leftward leaning device already. We shall see.. a lot can happen. But signs are encouraging.. the DNC? Immaterial at this point.... this is local activism at its finest. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 11 2017 at 09:58
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I agree with everything you've said except that the Repubs were not as politically weak as the Dems are right now. There's not much we can do except to wait and see, I'm afraid. But hope springs eternal I once heard someone say. (Now I have the mellotron driven album by Spring running through my head! Time to breakout the old vinyl and fire up the turntable!)
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 11 2017 at 10:05
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oh true.. there is little they can do now.. but symbolic gestures at this point. The Democrats are not in power.. any of it. Thus.. who gets the blame for this sh*t sandwich ... yep but look on the bright side.. at least the Courts haven't laid down and spread their legs for Emperor Trump. And what was that latest headline 'The legal system is broken' Yeah buddy.. simply because he didn't get his way. Yep...alienate the judicial branch in addition to the majority of hte population. Some Americans still do remember that branch is the final protection against dictators and strong men who wish to rule.. not govern. the GOP.. they hold all the keys.. no blaming Democrats for not standing up to Trump. Not invetigating his transgression.. or just going completely limp dicked to policies they KNOW are disasterous. Even if not 2018.. by 1020 they will have to answer to a highly engerized and damned angry majority of the population. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 11 2017 at 10:09
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I did get a big laugh from Trump tweeting "See you in Court!" as a response to the Court upholding the suspension of the ban. For God's sake, they're judges! Where else is Trump going to see them? In the men's room? ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: February 11 2017 at 13:02
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My preference for DNC chair is, no surprise, Keith Ellison. Everyone has long assumed he has it because of the # of endorsements he's racked up, including big mainstream names like Schumer and Reid. Some unions have backed him and a letter from hundreds of Jewish leaders didn't endorse him, but said he is not anti semitic and that line of attack is ridiculous and should stop (I always feared his past comments would haunt him). I think it would be great because that's a true blue progressive, and I'd like to see one in a major position, even if its more image than anything (though I'd say he would have some input on the fight over where the party goes) That said it's no guarantee, I have never assumed he has it. BUT I would be happy with Tom Perez who has his own impressive "pro person" credentials and was a good Sect of Labor. I like he's an Obama person more than a Clintonite, but he may also be a more unifying force than Ellison. I prefer Ellison but I'd have no issue whatsoever with Perez, who I think would also fight for a more pro labor, purple/red/rural area policies instead of relying solely on minorities and urbanites/northeast & west coast. At least for now...that's not a winning strategy. |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: February 11 2017 at 13:20
Well, a void can be a pretty great opportunity. It does remind me of 2008 for the GOP. Tough to be in a much lower spot, lost the WH, completely smacked in Congress (way more than the Dems which frustrates me they still held up so much and we can't do anything ) and they had no leader, no aim. Up steps the tea party. Micky is part right, the establishment wasn't very happy with em but they also didn't totally stop it. I believe the RNC took a "hands off" approach and let local races be decided by well, the people, and they didn't really intervene. Which means: Tea Party. So he's right the Dems will face a similar choice of getting in the way to preserve their position, or letting it happen. Not like they will be vanquished or anything, the mainstream GOP has adapted to the tea party and the Tea Party's true origin, Ron Paul, got lost as the movement itself adapted to the GOP. The system does work, still, sort of kinda ha And obviously the people still choose, least I hope!, the people of PA chose McGinty over Fetterman (a Sanders type) in the Senate Primary (she of course lost to Pat Toomey) and Tim Canova failed to unseat DWS. Zephyer Teachout won the Dem primary but lost in the election. So it'll be up to the people finally and how this all plays out. Kamala Harris did win the senate seat in CA so one small victory
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 13 2017 at 04:10
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 13 2017 at 13:51
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Once again White house press secretary Sean Spicer gets the SNL treatment!
While Alec Baldwin doubles down on Trump in the People's court! |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: February 14 2017 at 01:15
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WOW. Flynn resigns. http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/michael-flynn-resigns-as-national-security-adviser/2017/02/13/0007c0a8-f26e-11e6-8d72-263470bf0401_story.html?utm_term=.c0753a6198c9" rel="nofollow - http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/michael-flynn-resigns-as-national-security-adviser/2017/02/13/0007c0a8-f26e-11e6-8d72-263470bf0401_story.html?utm_term=.c0753a6198c9 This is over the conversation he had with Russia in December, (which did happen), seems he gave "incomplete information" about its nature ie lifting the sanctions, to the WH. Not only is this possibly actual treason, but this means the National Security Adviser to the President....lied to the WH, about a meeting he had with a foreign diplomat over major policy. Yeah nothing wrong there  I also find it odd Flynn would do this on his own, and not tell the truth to his own VP and others. Sorry, I can't believe he wasn't acting on Trump's behest and thus taking the sword, Oli North style. OR Trump really had no idea and Flynn went rogue. Yup no other to put this scenario, some real shady stuff
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: February 14 2017 at 01:28
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And the nightmare continues! Senator Tom Cotton of Arkansas has dropped all pretense about this debate, and taken it to the next level: He wants to restrict legal immigration. Specially cut it in half. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/02/11/next-gop-target-legal-immigrants.html?source=TDB&via=FB_Page" rel="nofollow - http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/02/11/next-gop-target-legal-immigrants.html?source=TDB&via=FB_Page Ugh... And sickeningly he's using the "protect our workers" cover but he supports extremely anti labor policies that would hurt our workers. Not sure if this is honest, cognitive dissonance or something, or simply the new GOP strategy to win over blue collar/working class voters: Appeal to protecting their jobs and wages through keeping people away, and hyping up social conservatism/law and order.
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Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: February 14 2017 at 04:54
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Bye-bye to that Michael Flynn guy, Held discussions with the Russians, And had Mike Pence tell a lie. Then Ol' Donald Trump left him high and dry, Singin' “this'll be the day you resign!” ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: February 14 2017 at 06:39
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the stupidity of the Trump administration is apparently seeping through
even to non-political US-organizations. it is an absolute ignominy for
the USTA to have the banned first verse of the Deutschlandlied, "Deutschland, Deutschland über alles" ("Germany, Germany above all")
sung before the matches started. only the third verse of the Deutschlandlied is used for the national anthem of Germany. here a translation of this third verse: "Unity and justice and freedom For the German fatherland! Towards these let us all strive Brotherly with heart and hand! Unity and justice and liberty Are the foundation of happiness; Flourish in the radiance of this happiness, Flourish, German fatherland". this should be well known, even to the USTA. so was this really stupidity or cunning strategy? no matter, either way it is an ignominy. when Hoffmann von Fallersleben wrote the lyrics they had a completely different meaning. Germany did not exist back then; it was split into many small principalities. so the lyrics originally were for the unification of these principalities, which was more important than anything else in the world to von Fallersleben. that was what "Deutschland über alles" originally was about. the Nazis did of course reinterpret these lines as meaning Germany was superior to all other nations. the music was originally written by Joseph Haydn for the birthday of emperor Francis II. the lyrics were "Gott erhalte Franz den Kaiser" ("God save emperor Francis"). (on a side note: since "erhalten" may mean "save" or "preserve" in German but also "receive" these lyrics have an ironic double meaning). for a short time after WW2 the Germans used Beethoven's "Ode an die Freude" ("Ode to Joy") as national anthem. on March 7th 1990, seven months before the reunification, the German constitutional court declared that only the 3rd verse would constitute the text of the German national anthem of a reunified Germany. the first verse of the Deutschlandlied has NEVER been officially used after WW2 (until now by the USTA). I used to be an American citizen for the first 30 years of my life. in 1993, at age 24, I moved to Germany for professional reasons and became a German citizen in 2000 because I wanted to be able to vote here. since German law allows double citizenship only in specific cases, none of which applied to me, I had to give up my American citizenship then. anyone who is familiar with modern Germany, as I certainly am after having lived here for 24 years, knows that the singing of the 1st verse of the Deutschlandlied was extremely offensive. someone compared singing "God save the Queen" instead of the national US-anthem to this incident on YouTube, but it does not even come close. to the German team it must have felt like a slap in the face ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Kepler62
Date Posted: February 14 2017 at 07:54
| I live right on the Canadian/US border. I mean right on the bordeer. Right next to the Peace Bridge on the Niagara River r. I can see Buffalo from my living room window. I come across Americans often and for the most part they don't give a tinker's cuss about politics juust as we Canadians couldn't care less. The world is in such a mess that I am just here for the ride for the next 50years or so. But you have to admit you can't beat this dog and pony show for it's entertainment value. I like listening to Lewis Black's commentary but he has a hard time because Trump does his job for him just like Ceorge W. Bush did. |
Posted By: LearsFool
Date Posted: February 14 2017 at 14:46
Yay! Seriously, Flynn was a complete moron, with his treason just the icing on the turd. Good to get rid of a guy who turned the sitting president against the intelligence community long before election day. A guy who couldn't give up on his disastrous biases, to the point the DIA gave him the boot. A guy who reads Mike Cernovich.  And the zenith/nadir of his stupidity was using the closely monitored diplomatic cables to try and sell our nation and our allies out to Putin. You just can't make up how foolish the Trump Administration as a whole are with secrecy either necessary or criminal. Now we see Trump willing to blab about national security in front of everybody at Mar-a-Lago. Speaks even more about how completely unqualified these people are. -------------  
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: February 15 2017 at 00:06
Oh absolutely. All this being in bed with Russia thing aside, he was an utter loon, unqualified and incredibly dangerous. I am absolutely glad he's gone and his reputation shattered. I was honestly scared at the thought of him being in Trump's ear. Trump has been shockingly subdued about all this...given he will go nuclear over a play, SNL, Mark Cuban, the size and weather of his inauguration crowd, will personally respond to twitter comments, he's been pretty darn quiet on the fact his National Security Adviser has resigned over possibly treasonous actions. He will foam at the mouth about negative media coverage, but isn't jumping to defend Flynn against a tsunami of bad news coverage? His response to all this says all we need to know. Anyway, it gets better! Jason Chaffetz says he won't investigate the matter because "It's taken care of itself". This guy was prepared to fight Clinton for 4 years with investigations. Rand Paul sells out again, says it makes "no sense" for Republicans to investigate a Republican. Others seem to have no care either. Aren't these the people that made Clinton go through 8 hearings over Benghazi and force her through the gauntlet over emails? Right, yeah guess possible treasonous actions from a major figure in the government is no biggie. |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: February 15 2017 at 00:21
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Anyway, the pieces keep adding up: "Trump campaign aides had repeated contacts with Russian intelligence" http://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/14/us/politics/russia-intelligence-communications-trump.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/14/us/politics/russia-intelligence-communications-trump.html Putin sets up missiles, in violation of a treaty, while also buzzing a US ship with Russian jets and a Russian spy ship is sighted off the US coast, not doing anything illegal or at all, just sending a nice message http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/02/14/russian-spy-ship-off-east-coast-us-officials-say.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/02/14/russian-spy-ship-off-east-coast-us-officials-say.html People have waved off all this stuff as wanting to re start the Cold War. Hell no, I don't want that! It's Putin who's started this But really, this is getting kind of scary.
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Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: February 15 2017 at 00:26
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Amongst all the
discussions with their various topics concerning Trump, there is one issue
which I find central but that’s being almost set aside as an almost amusing
byline, and that’s the business about the alleged size of the inauguration
crowd and what it entails. The implications of this are enormous and I find
his claims highly alarming. When Trump claims this in the face of undeniable proof to the contrary in the form of photographs set directly side by side (and he’s evidently not lying, because if he were, he would know that it makes him look a fool), he is clearly delusional. I mean medically and certifiably delusional. It’s there for all to see. This, more than anything else, shows that he has a disturbed grip on reality, and, combined with a highly volatile and thin-skinned personality, is a recipe for disaster. After all, the man has the nuclear codes! Why isn’t this getting the attention it deserves? Sure, there are also many other things he’s doing worth everyone’s attention, but this is the one instance where it’s clearly there for all to see. All his other actions can be clearly derived from this. He clearly needs urgent medical attention, so why is nothing happening? |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: February 15 2017 at 00:30
Nah. I never found of it entertaining, and quite a few have said to me "Eh might as well laugh while the world burns, what else can ya do?" Guess I'm just a party pooper. That can't be denied, far too many don't give a trickle of piss about politics, though a few at my job have gone from that to fairly read up on events and active in discussion. One even saying "that changed now" (about his being totally apathetic) Ya know, politics matter. We only feel it doesn't because we dont partake, in whatever way we can. YUUGE impact could be had if ya know, more people voted, stayed active, ran for office. Informed themselves most importantly. But yeah, little humor had here. I love history, quite a list of parallels are being drawn between now and the 1930s so nah, not sure chilling for the ride for 50 years is a great idea but that's just me. Though with Flynn gone, the chances of a clash of civilizations mega battle have diminished somewhat so good news there at least. Doh! Bannon will likely just fill the void. |
Posted By: twseel
Date Posted: February 15 2017 at 02:33
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I do wanna pop in and disagree with what you and Micky(I think) said about paying more attention to politics. The wave of populism going around worldwide has been largely fueled by people working eachother up to be more critical of politics, telling eachother change is necessary when times really aren't very bad at all in real life(yes, some inequality, some immigrants, but still not nearly as bad as many other points in semi-recent history) and going in uninformed, suddenly expecting the government to the settle the issues they've come up with with force and speed, even when they'll obviously(for anyone caring about economics and stuff) their solutions are very weak on the long term. The 'failing' of democracy lies mostly in people expecting politics to solve their problems, even when there's simply no way anything can turn an immigration crisis or low consumer confidence into a good time, I wish people would see that and accept that even their best choice will only make the times slightly less bad(if you conceive them as bad in the first place). I hope people will forget about politics a bit in the coming four years so they can see what a solid system they actually have set up for themselves, one that you're really not supposed to tear down, one you're supposed to cooperate with to improve both sides, and one you're supposed to trust to some extent, even when you don't understand it. ------------- 
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Posted By: Kepler62
Date Posted: February 15 2017 at 02:51
| Our fearless leader met with Trump yesterday and the Canadian media were going ga ga ga. Trump was humouring the kid with some feminists sitting around a table. I flicked around the channels and the American media didn't mention this event once. They were more focussed on that lunatic in North Korea firing off a test missile and Flynn's resignation. What is so funny is that we know more about American politics than we know about Canadian politics. I couldn't even tell you who the opposition leader is except that Kevin O'Leary wants to get a piece of that pie. It seems business as usual though as I watch the traffic on the Peace Bridge from my front window. You don't have watch SNL to get laughs you just have to watch the news. I find the actual news funnier than the parodies. Quite honestly I don't even find the parodies funny at all. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: February 15 2017 at 03:01
^ We saw the coverage, but it the Michael Flynn debacle was top of the news. I'd think Trudeau poised to soon be a big star and a counterweight to Trump's Jabba-like presence. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: February 15 2017 at 04:51
this three monkeys attitude is in my opinion not only terribly naive, it is downright dangerous. just closing the eyes and hoping it will all turn out right is what helped totalitarian regimes all over the world to get into power and keep it. Trump is beginning to undermine the basis of the American democracy; several commentators (including me) have pointed out the warning signs. the time to act is now, not later. ceterum censeo pricipiis obsta ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: twseel
Date Posted: February 15 2017 at 05:30
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Okay, you're misunderstanding me now; Trump should not be ignored and he should not be trusted(ideally he should stop existing tbf), but it's the public outrage and unwarranted vitriol against the leaders in place that have caused him to be president. Countries that don't have 'their own Trump' in charge yet will for now be much better off drawing some sane conclusions from Trump's stupidity and remembering that they really DON'T need a change so drastic as what Trump is doing now because it's painful, harmful and dysfunctional. I'm not talking about strict progressives such as you and me(I assume), we must certainly stand strong if/when the people elect a populist, but I was talking about the people in the middle ground, the working class, who have gotten frustrated not as much with things in their actual lives but with politics itself, struggling to understand why they do this or that when all their buddies at the pub tell them in clear language that it should all be completely different. It's pure mob mentality, here in the Netherlands all the votes for Geert Wilders come from the people in the fisher's towns with zero Muslims or old folks who are upset simply because there are some Muslims in their neighborhood who weren't their before. It confuses me even more because the immigrant stream has only added about 1/8 to the total Muslim population which has been here for decades... These people should ask themselves should be asked what they want to change for their OWN life, their own situation and that of the people around them because trying to be all-knowing is not functioning for them. -------------
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 15 2017 at 08:01
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Hmm. Mob mentality or not, twessl, Trump draws for two main reasons. His outrageousness and, as you said, the middle working class that are truly fed up with getting screwed and are desperate enough to try Trump. Plus, he is great to make fun of.  Don't take it all seriously. Life is still great, even with crazy politics!------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: LearsFool
Date Posted: February 15 2017 at 15:34
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In more good news, http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/02/report-andrew-puzder-withdraw-labor-secretary-nominee" rel="nofollow - Puzder has pulled himself out of the running for Secretary of Labor . We now avoid having to deal with a very anti-worker, anti-union slimebag. Looks to have been brought down not just by that, but not filing his paperwork with the ethics folks, resurfacing domestic violence allegations, and finally a retreat of key conservative support either because of or under the cover of revelations he hired an undocumented immigrant has a housekeeper and didn't pay related taxes. -------------
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Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: February 15 2017 at 19:18
I would have preferred... ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: February 15 2017 at 23:15
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Puzder withdraws his name for the Sect of Labor nomination!! Someone opposed to raising the min wage, expanding overtime, paid sick leave and onerous regulations such as breaks, who has quite a number of labor violation lawsuits against him and praised automation for several reasons one being "robots wont file an age, sex or race discrimination lawsuit" is probably not the best pick for Sect of Labor Now, I think normally he would've passed the Republican Senate, seems he was done in by the undocumented worker he hired, as well as his stance on immigration being too liberal for the new right and some very unsettling comments on women, plus his potential domestic abuse history. All I know is glad he failed, because he probably wouldn't have on his own. Who knows what Trump's next pick will be, I imagine wont be any better but will lack the baggage and thus be nominated, but still. Every victory counts along the way Especially since Steve Mnuchin the Goldman Sachs hedge funder looking to roll back Wall St reform was confirmed as Sect of Treasury. A lone Democrat broke rank to vote yes, Joe Manchin....ugh I get needing to moderate for your base but by this point we may have to admit WV is lost..I mean guy has supported everyone sans DeVos
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Posted By: twseel
Date Posted: February 16 2017 at 02:11
'Don't take it all seriously' is exactly what I'm saying; if you Americans aren't going to actually do anything about Trump I will keep ignoring most of him and go on with the good life I know I have, but if the reverse parties, those who are still trying to get populists in power would do the same that would solve a lot. Sometimes you should accept you don't have an ideal government in place and you should patiently try to solve the actual problems. I've read all ~150 pages of discussion here, followed the news closely, watched interviews, talk shows and late night shows, I think I sort of know what got Trump in power and it's all based on the same group of people with paranoid, contrarian mindsets yelling 'The government is WEAK!', when before this, they didn't even have to care. Obama was basically a very professional, quite impeccable president and now they're bored with the government that actually profits near everyone but only a little, so when they encounter a complex problem, deeply embedded into society, and they don't hear Obama giving 'strong' commands for a solution they will get paranoid and think they're being forgotten, when they should really just look around and see things really haven't gotten worse than before... -------------
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 16 2017 at 04:03
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I agree with your claim that a large number of people have panicked into backing Trump but that is not a "mob mentality" which is associated with unruly mob violence. "Mob mentality" is this:  I don't think this represents the majority of Trump supporters, as much as we left wingers like to imagine it does.
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Posted By: twseel
Date Posted: February 16 2017 at 05:51
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Yes there are some people just quietly following in the back but there's still: And if you ask the average Trump voter if they agree they probably will, they want to democratically harm and punish the establishment, they don't have a clue about actual solutions, sorry.
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 16 2017 at 07:59
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Sorry again, but making idle legal threats is still not a mob mentality. Just a chant. However, Flynn transgressions crossed that line and legal problems could actually be following him. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: twseel
Date Posted: February 16 2017 at 09:48
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wiki: Herd mentality, or mob mentality, describes how people are influenced by their peers to adopt certain behaviors. Examples of the herd mentality include https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_market" rel="nofollow - stock market trends, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstition" rel="nofollow - superstition and home décor. Social psychologists study the related topics of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_intelligence" rel="nofollow - group intelligence , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowd_wisdom" rel="nofollow - crowd wisdom , and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized_decision_making" rel="nofollow - decentralized decision making . Anyhow, I think the point is clear. -------------
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Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: February 16 2017 at 19:05
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President Snowflake is upset about leaks? Today he made the stunningly stultifying comment, "The leaks are absolutely real; the news is fake because so much of the news is fake." Bzuh? He has also referred to "criminal' leaks and "low-life leakers" previously this week. Can we have a moment of clarity, Mr. President? Yes, clarity – even though the word is synonymous with obfuscation and obtuseness in the muddy gutters of your miasmic mind. We'll use exact quotes so there is no "fake news" claim. During the presidential campaign you made the statement “I love WikiLeaks,” and you loudly proclaimed, “Russia, if you’re listening,” please come hack another U.S. politician’s emails. You said that. Out of your own mouth. On video. Before millions of viewers. You love leaks [insert “golden-showers” pun here]. So you welcomed illegal hacking and invited a foreign power to spy on U.S. citizens, when it suited you. I was never a fan of George W. Bush, but I could not imagine him saying something so dangerously un-American. Can you imagine those words coming out of Ronald Reagan’s mouth? Hell no! And now 45’s becoming even more unhinged -- and I would suggest anyone with a hint of sentience and not utterly comatose could watch today’s news conference without getting the distinct impression that Trump is no longer dealing in reality. He strings words together like some malignant child trying to explain to his horrified parents how he couldn’t possibly have burned down the house -- just because he’s holding matches and a gasoline can. The media is “fake” when they use direct quotes and point out when he and his staff lie (or use “alternative facts” if you prefer). The leaks are “absolutely real”, but the “news is fake” when Michael Flynn resigns after having admitted he lied about speaking illegally to the Russians about lifting sanctions. Every national security organization has stated the Russians hacked U.S. email servers for their political gain. The National Security Adviser has admitted to illegal discussions with the Russians, and was forced to resign. Trump aides were caught having “repeated contacts with Russian Intelligence”. How much longer will the eunuch Republicans in congress and the senate sing in castrato choir, harmonizing with Trump? What will it take for Americans to actually remember how to act like Americans and demand an open and independent investigation of this farce? ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: February 16 2017 at 19:45
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^ He could do the unthinkable and give legitimacy back to news journalism. Who'd have thought. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: February 16 2017 at 19:51
I think if The NY Times or some other paper connects all the Russian dots, they'll win the Pulitzer and take down a president a la The Washington Post and Watergate. Kremlingate? Putingate? The Great Gate of Kiev? ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 16 2017 at 20:01
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ehhhh... I'm of two minds about this. And yeah...that press conference was a HOOT! Washington is abuzz at our completely unhinged President. Oh was that a surprise to people.. that he is not temperamentally suited at ALL to be President. Nah.. get out of town. One... I'm loving it. I rush to the computer when I get home just to see our President has done or said each day. This sh*t is pricless man.. never seen anything like this.. hopefully never will again. Hey we are only 1 month in.. still have 3 years to go! Two... a profound sadness at what this country has become. America.. and those that voted for him GOT EXACTLY what they deserve for their ignorance, apathy and your stupidity. You paid for it.. now eat it. Perhaps next time you'll treat your vote with the respect and thought it deserves. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: February 16 2017 at 20:05
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^ You know Americans; gotta have change... CHANGE! But people forget change can be as destructive as helpful. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 16 2017 at 20:30
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not to mention forgetting the economic and foreign wreckage the last completely unsuited to the job Republican President we elected brought upon the country. You can forgive them for that one, who really expected Darth Cheney to rule in his stead with him giving Dubya pacifiers to quietly suck on during important meetings .. but there was no excuse for Trump voters. The evidence was there .. all you had to do was open your eyes. Ignorance and amnesia. the recipe for Trump 2016.  ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: mathman0806
Date Posted: February 16 2017 at 20:33
| Alec Baldwin could go on SNL, quote Trump word for word from the press conference today, and it would come across as over the top parody. Then Trump could criticize SNL for being mean for using his own words against him. |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: February 16 2017 at 23:12
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Yeah...the irony is not lost on me Trump is bashing leaks, when he had no issue at all with leaks before when it was against Clinton/DNC. Oi.... I swear, I think part of his appeal is people know he's full of sh*t and lying, but he's so blatant with it, he tries so little to hide it, I think some find it "refreshing" No doubt Mick, the 40+% of eligible voters, those who voted to be edgy/on overly idealistic lines, (and the poor blue collar workers who probably meant well honestly) will all be kicking thesmelves for a while. I also hope that is one of many lessons to come from this: people take their right to vote more seriously. Yeah it's kinda scary how SNL, even the Onion, isn't even satire now. Seriously, I'll read Onion articles and think "this is basically reporting the news"
This is life now |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: February 16 2017 at 23:20
| Well, Trump has learned a lesson (lol excuse me I mean Pence/Priebus have learned a lesson) in not going so hard line. The new nominee for Sect of Labor is Alexander Acosta, a Hispanic actually has quite a good list of credentials including some actually related to the position he's been nominated for (With Trump is, clearly, not always the case). Looking into his record ...doesn't seem so awful. I mean I'm sure he's conservative and probably leans anti labor, but dare I say it's a qualified sane pick that seems to have no reason to be opposed. |
Posted By: twseel
Date Posted: February 17 2017 at 01:09
You would very likely be correct to say that if more people had cared to go out and vote, Trump would have never come close to winning, but having 50 million people in your country going out of their way to get Donald f**king Trump elected there's already something terribly wrong with the type of 'political involvement' they're dealing in. Like people said months ago, it's almost like a game show, and so many getting newly involved basically thought 'why didn't I look into politics before, it's very entertaining and fun!' -------------
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: February 17 2017 at 01:15
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^ Oh his whole "fake news/lying media" thing is probably going over very well. The irony is that he's largely correct. But if he screws up big time, it's gonna be yooj . ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: February 17 2017 at 02:35
oh, they got change. threw a few hundred bucks away and got some change back ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 17 2017 at 03:58
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Posted By: twseel
Date Posted: February 17 2017 at 06:10
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Heck I don't know, I'm no native speaker and I'm just trying to say they have their mind set to banding together as 'the people' to focus on a common enimy, I thought mob mentality was a good term for that, I looked it up and yes, it seems like it's not semantically wrong to use there, I don't know exactly if it has a positive or negative connotation or stuff like that, I even tried to clarify what I meant in others words in other posts... I don't wanna have this discussion either, that's why I closed the post you're quoting with 'Anyhow, I think the point is clear.' -------------
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Posted By: Kepler62
Date Posted: February 17 2017 at 06:20
| Well, why do you come on the thread if you don't like the thread? I don't get it Getting back to the thread. Looks like Don is just going to become a one man government. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 17 2017 at 06:38
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I love the thread. It's some of the annoying ''I must have the last word" posts that bother me. If you can't grasp that, then feel free to check out anytime. |
Posted By: twseel
Date Posted: February 17 2017 at 06:57
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My English must be worse than I thought... It's a great thread, and that's why I don't wanna fill with this useless discussion about what 'mob mentality' means. You know full wel what I meant to say, and I still don't really understand how my usage was incorrect but I have rephrased it and exemplified it and I would prefer it that you get off my back about it and instead respond to actual discussion points rather than semantic issues. -------------
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 17 2017 at 07:59
Let's chalk this up to mutual miscommunication and I'll even throw in an apology to help us move on. Agreed?
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Posted By: mathman0806
Date Posted: February 17 2017 at 08:50
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Saw this in CNN this morning and it sums things up: "The people that love him will love him more, the people that hate him will hate him more and the people in the middle probably will look at it the way that we look at in Congress, which is that's just the new normal. That's just the s*** that happens. I don't know how else to manage it," said one Republican lawmaker after Trump's press conference. "We're just trying to manage this s***." |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: February 17 2017 at 09:34
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Sounds as if the GOP is in the position of Goethe's "Sorcerer's Apprentice": "Ach, da ist der Meister! Herr, die Not ist groß! Die ich rief, die Geister, Werd ich nun nicht los" In my translation: "Ah, there is the Master! Lord, the need is dire! Ghosts I called as caster Now just won't retire". They called Trump, and now they can't get rid of him -------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: twseel
Date Posted: February 17 2017 at 10:27
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 18 2017 at 08:36
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lmao... America.. get to know your 25th Amendment... perhaps coming soon to a history book near you. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 18 2017 at 08:42
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quote of the week.. as our President escaped Washington to his first reelection rally... “There’s a campaign mode and there’s a governing mode. So far, we haven’t gotten to the governing mode," said Idaho Rep. Mike Simpson. “You often say to those that lose an election and can’t get over it, and you’ve heard him say to the Clinton supporter, ‘You lost, get over it!’ This is the first I’ve ever had to say to somebody, ‘You won, get over it!’ He just can’t let it go.” ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: February 19 2017 at 13:04
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I think Trump is in governing mode. He's put into law multiple bills, including a 5 year no lobbyists on Executive Branch. I say that's a good thing. If only Congress would pass a rule prohibiting lobbyists. Trump has already got several countries to pledge US investment. Japan has already promised 50 Billion dollars. Here is a link for those who wish to fact check. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/06/business/dealbook/donald-trump-mayayoshi-son-softbank.html?_r=0 The Stock Market is at an all time high. That's great for American retirement accounts. Stock Market prices are based on future optimism. That's the way the Stock Market works. How do I know? I quit my Day Job 17 years ago to go full time trading the stock market.
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: February 19 2017 at 13:07
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Reince Priebus is a worm. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: February 19 2017 at 13:10
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[QUOTE=Atavachron]Reince Priebus is a worm. I have my suspicions. |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: February 19 2017 at 22:40
Well...more like an oligarchy or junta He, Bannon, Tillerson. Formerly Flynn but he's of course gone. It's an international oligarchy...the very thing people like Bannon and many Trumpers claim to hate: globalism, intl elites etc etc its happening. To the shock of no one with a working brain and unbiased eyes: A report drafted by 3 Trump buddies with strong Russian ties, developed a sealed envelope to him, a plan of peace with Russia, which included lifting the sanctions. This happened a week before Flynn resigned. So yeah, this really is an intl elite, globalist plot. Rich, connected people in the US and Russia are working to benefit themselves. The thing all these alt-righties claim to hate. Not that Bannon actually cares, he just wants "the left" (whatever he thinks that is) destroyed, and Isis destroyed. Putin is a fine ally in this regard and he has no care for democracy so all good. Protecting Western culture from the barbarians at the gate is all that matters to him. Clearly Trump and his buds don't care. By the way the 3 people involved with this memo to Trump: Michael Cohen: Trump's lawyer and has Russian ties/bias Felix Sater: Friend, Russian businessman with links to the mafia (seriously!) Andrii Artemenko: Pro Russian politician who went to the RNC to meet some of Trump's campaign. This is actually happening  |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: February 20 2017 at 04:56
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In an episode of the German edition of Donald Duck comics Donald had to admit he had suffered from meningitis as a child. Maybe Donald Trump is Donald Duck in disguise; at least his incoherent utterings aren't more intelligent than the utterings of a person who is suffering from the unlucky fate of having had meningitis. And you have to admit his mouth has a surprising and uncanny likeness to a duck bill when he speaks: "Quack quack Sweden quack quack yesterday".  Actually it appears that Trump watched his favorite channel (FIX, I mean FOX, sorry, they don't fix news) and saw their feature of a documentary about immigrants to Sweden by director Ami Horowitz and how the rape rate has allegedly increased drastically over the last few years, which corresponded with an increase of immigrants, from which both Horowitz and FOX seemed to conclude that those immigrants committed the rapes. That's like concluding the stork brings the babies from the fact that both the stork population and the birth rate have increased during a specific period of time. Just because the results of two statistics coincide does by no means mean these statistics are correlated; it's one of the first things you learn when taking statistic lessons. And how the heck Trump concluded that all these rapes happened yesterday is beyond me. Oh, and by the way: The legal definition of rape in Sweden is by no means the same as the legal definition of rape in the USA. The law defining rape is so complicated you have to study jurisprudence to understand it. An example (really true): If a couple has consensual sexual intercourse using a condom this consensual intercourse becomes rape if the condom slips off during the act. Yes, really true! ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: February 20 2017 at 08:55
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Since Sweden opened their borders to Refugees the rape rate has risen 1472%. Sweden has the 2nd highest rape rate in the world. Perhaps Trump got the date and time wrong. Trump did not get the refugee Sweden Rape crisis wrong. Forget last night in Sweden, instead remember the last few disastrous, rape-ridden years. Islamic refugees in Sweden live-streamed their gang rape on Facebook! Who cares what day of the week it happened? The following video was made a Swedish citizen, who came to Sweden when he was a Bosnian child refugee. He candidly talks about the Swedish Refugee Rape problem. A YouTube search of "Sweden rape" will net you 193,000 results; of those results, 90% are videos addressing the Swedish Refugee Rape Crisis. Swedish citizens view the refugee rape crisis differently from Swedish politicians and media. |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: February 20 2017 at 09:38
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There is little doubt that there is at least the perception of a large increase in reported sexual attacks in both Sweden and Germany, both countries which have had large increases in net migration. Note I said at least a perception. I do not live in either country, so cannot really comment on the facts, but I do know there is one hell of a lot of disquiet. No smoke without fire?............ ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org |
Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: February 20 2017 at 10:01
Does the wall count as infrastructure? ------------- A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now) |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: February 20 2017 at 10:18
My, quite a rosy picture an apologist might paint. After all, we all know that high stock prices, like reducing taxes on the wealthiest percentile, brings back good-paying jobs. As far as being "great for American retirement accounts," I would suggest that Trump already beginning to gut the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act (you know, the set of laws enacted when terrible Wall Street and bank practices caused the last depression) will jeopardize and eventually empty American's IRAs just like the last time there were no restraints on trading and banking. "We expect to be cutting a lot out of Dodd-Frank,” Trump said during a meeting with business leaders earlier this month. “Because frankly, I have so many people, friends of mine, that had nice businesses, they just can’t borrow money . . . because the banks just won’t let them borrow because of the rules and regulations in Dodd- Frank.” "Many people, friends of mine..." the very same a****les who destroyed the economy last time, and the very reason the law was enacted in the first place. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: February 20 2017 at 10:19
Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden" rel="nofollow - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden And just so we know what we are talking about here a link to the Swedish Penal Code; skip down to Chapter 6 which deals with sexual crimes and has 13 sections: http://www.government.se/contentassets/5315d27076c942019828d6c36521696e/swedish-penal-code.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.government.se/contentassets/5315d27076c942019828d6c36521696e/swedish-penal-code.pdf Actually anybody with a bit of sense should immediately doubt a statistic that talks about a 1472% increase of rape cases mostly attributed to a group of new immigrants that make up about 1% of the population. This would mean that it is about 15000 times as likely to be raped by one of this new immigrants than by any other member of the population which is downright preposterous. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: February 20 2017 at 11:09
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Do you really think Swedish women report their husbands for rape if the condom slips off? I couldn't find one example. Digital rape (for example-sticking your finger in a drunk, unconscious Swedish woman) is considered rape in Sweden. As it should be. I did a YouTube search of "Digital Rape Sweden" All I got was thousands of Migrant, Islam, and Refugee rape crisis results. So I tried to search " White male Swedish Rape problem" Again, all I get is Rufugee rape crisis. It seems the Refugees rape boys and men as well as women and girls. I've been familiar with the Swedish Sexual Criminal Codes for years. The horrible thing about the Swedish Sex Criminal Code are the 2 year penalties. if convicted (that's a big IF) 2 years for rape is the most common penalty for rape. Bottom line- Any Swedish Rape search on YouTube nets you hundreds of thousands of Refugee rape videos. Don't believe me. Go look for yourself. Word it anyway you want it. It's always comes up Swedish Refugee Rape Crisis. You said: "Actually anybody with a bit of sense should immediately doubt a statistic that talks about a 1472% increase of rape cases mostly attributed to a group of new immigrants that make up about 1% of the population. This would mean that it is about 15000 times as likely to be raped by one of this new immigrants than by any other member of the population which is downright preposterous."' My stats are correct. However, your stats are incorrect. You quoted Wikipedia. Now I will quote Wikipedia: "As of 2010, 1.33 million people or 14.3% of the inhabitants in Sweden were foreign-born. Of these, 859,000 (64.6%) were born outside the European Union." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Sweden Here is one of my sources for Sweden's 1472% rise in Rape Stats- Please Google Swedish rape stats for fact checking purposes. https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape
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Posted By: Kepler62
Date Posted: February 20 2017 at 11:39
So this is now a Swedish rape thread. OK. I won't say anything about Don then. Just out of interest what do the Swedish rape statistics have to do with American politics. I can't see any connection. 
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Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: February 20 2017 at 11:49
Good question Kepler. Most of the Refugees who rape in Sweden or Germany and other European Union states are from the same 7 countries that Trump wants to expose to extreme vetting. In other words, Trump doesn't want to make the same mistakes that Sweden did. You can't unscramble an egg. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Trump wants to deport felons who are illegal immigrants. And Trump is for extreme vetting, so that bad people don't immigrate. We want good immigrants. Who want's crime?
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: February 20 2017 at 12:00
Excuse me, but your statistics are incorrect. I am comparing the supposed increase of rape crimes to the rise of the immigrant population during the time this supposed increase of rape crimes happened. This is the reasonable thing to do unless you can come up with an explanation why all of a sudden the foreign population of Sweden should start committing rape crimes. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: February 20 2017 at 12:34
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Sometimes I think Trump IS a master of everything. Now he actually has people talking about SWEDEN of all things. -------------
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: February 20 2017 at 12:43
Let me tell you about Sweden Only country where the clouds are interesting Big brother says it's the place to go Too much time to think, too little to do Too much time to think, too little to do Too much time, too little to do 'Cos it's all quiet on the Eastern front. From the Stranglers song "All Quiet on the Eastern Front" ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: February 20 2017 at 13:44
The only country where the clouds are interesting. |
Posted By: LearsFool
Date Posted: February 20 2017 at 15:27
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As a final note on the "Rapefugee" blood libel, a Swedish newsource interviewed the police officers that Fox interviewed for their hit piece and it turns out that http://www.dn.se/kultur-noje/nyheter/swedish-police-featured-in-fox-news-segment-filmmaker-is-a-madman/" rel="nofollow - Fox maliciously edited their statements to make it look like there's a problem when there damn well isn't. -------------
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Posted By: Kepler62
Date Posted: February 20 2017 at 15:33
 SSince this is now a Swedish thread they even make some nice fighter airplanes.
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: February 20 2017 at 16:16
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International politics and issues commonly have an effect on, and are relevant to, national politics. Be good to have an international politics thread -- probably is one already. ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: February 20 2017 at 17:33
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President Trump wants to extreme vet the same 7 countries President Obama bombed for his entire administration. This begs several questions: If President Trump is wrong to document and vet immigrants from 7 Islamic countries, then was President Obama also wrong to bomb the exact same 7 countries for his entire 8 years in office? If Obama was wrong, then why didn't the main stream media deluge President Obama with calls for impeachment like they've done for Trump since before President Trump took office? Let's suppose it was correct for President Obama and America to bomb the same 7 Islamic countries in which President Trump wants to curb immigration. Wouldn't that also suggest that these 7 Islamic countries are home to a high percentage of dangerous bad people who would harm America and it's citizens? Why didn't the media scream and complain when President Obama's attempted to curb Immigration in the 2011? Here the US Government White House link- "Presidential Proclamation--Suspension of Entry as Immigrants and Nonimmigrants of Persons Who Participate in Serious Human Rights and Humanitarian Law Violations and Other Abuses." https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2011/08/04/presidential-proclamation-suspension-entry-immigrants-and-nonimmigrants- Where was the mainstream media then? |
Posted By: twseel
Date Posted: February 20 2017 at 17:50
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Pff that's some twisted logic, Obama has gone to war with extremist terrorists, Trump is obstructing the millions of non-extremists trying to flee from a small group that is trying to KILL them. Also, the rapefugee thing is deluded, please come to Europe, come see for yourself on the streets here in the Netherlands, the poorest corners with the most immigrants, countries with 10 times as many Muslims per capita as the US, see for yourself how completely harmless and safe it is instead trampling over the same single contrived statistic. People complaining about Muslims here are complaining about general behavior, not crime, since that simply hasn't increased in any significant way. -------------
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Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: February 20 2017 at 18:11
How do you tell the difference between the good immigrants and the terrorists without extreme vetting? It's twisted logic to suggest that only good Muslims wish to immigrate to America. I'm sure terrorists are too stupid to think of hiding amongst fleeing refugees. Terrorists would never think of that. President Trump wishes place a 6 month ban on immigration from 7 Islamic countries, so that an Infrastructure can be put into place to interview and document immigrants from countries American has been at war with for fifteen years. Do you think it's a bad idea? If so, what would you do? According to Wikipedia the Netherlands has a 4% Muslim population. Compare that to Sweden's 14.3%. Sweden has the 2nd highest rape rate on the planet Earth. Please look it up yourself. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: February 20 2017 at 18:20
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^^ Interesting, so you don't find more people who identify with Islam in prison, or have links to crime such as terrorism, rape, wife-beatings, proportionately than native Dutch? And I guess the same can be said for the rest of Europe (migrants and children/grandchildren of migrants from moslem countries are not more likely to be involved in violent acts, or appeals to violent action in the country, than those of that countries ancestry, say with Sweden, Belgium, France etc.). I enjoyed by time in the Netherlands and Belgium a couple of years ago, though I didn't go to Molonbeek. I should have. What issues of general behavior are people complaining about? I'm anti-Trump, but I think improved vetting makes sense. I wish that the west could somehow eventually help to rebuild their home countries so that the migrants can return in time. Or I should say, make it safe, then they can help rebuild their countries. Must be hard on these people to feel like they have to leave their homelands and adapt to a new culture (western secular societies built on liberal values) that must be very alien to some of them. ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: February 20 2017 at 18:43
Look up "Islamophobia" yourself. |
Posted By: twseel
Date Posted: February 20 2017 at 18:45
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: February 20 2017 at 18:47
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Islamophobia = an irrational fear of Islam. I loathe that term. It's a term used to shut down discussion, as is Islamophilia. ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: twseel
Date Posted: February 20 2017 at 18:56
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: February 20 2017 at 19:02
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Thanks, that's interesting. When doing stats things should be broken down as much as possible. Where there is poverty there is usually more violent crime. I was getting confused too with the stats that Friede was arguing with Omphal, cause it seemed to be talking at cross-purposes rather than sourcing statistics to make comparisons and generate a bigger picture. ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |