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Kings X vs Muse

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Forum Name: Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
Forum Description: Discuss bands and albums classified as Proto-Prog and Prog-Related
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=110297
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Topic: Kings X vs Muse
Posted By: Icarium
Subject: Kings X vs Muse
Date Posted: February 18 2017 at 09:06
both bands combine he rawness of alternative rock and metal, with progressive rock and metal.

with powerfull plying and inspired playing and singing. 

who do you choose


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Replies:
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: February 18 2017 at 10:09
Longtime King's X fan (since '90 or '91). KX has the better guitarist (by far) and vocalist in Doug Pinnick. Love everything up through Ear Candy, then they drop off a bit.
 
Muse is alright, too.


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Posted By: progmatic
Date Posted: February 18 2017 at 10:10
King's X is a highly underrated group.


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PROGMATIC


Posted By: mathman0806
Date Posted: February 18 2017 at 11:23
King's X... been an fan since the debut album. Great live band. Saw them play in a club supporting that one and Gretchen... great shows. Only managed to see them on more time for a club show supporting Tape Head.  


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 18 2017 at 11:41
Muse is good

Gretchen smokes anything they did however..  Kings X. And yeah.. fantastic live act.


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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip


Posted By: hieronymous
Date Posted: February 18 2017 at 11:50
King's X - been a fan since Gretchen Goes to Nebraska - saw them on the Dogman, Tape Head, and Please Come Home Mr. Bulbous tours, plus last year (I don't think they were supporting an album). I think every album has something absolutely worthwhile, though of course the first 6 are the "best."

My wife liked Muse for a while but got bored with them - I never got into them myself.


Posted By: Timdano
Date Posted: February 18 2017 at 14:25
Definitely King's X! Was introduced to them in the late '80s... happened upon Gretchen Goes to Nebraska; my interest was piqued by the amazing artwork. That day I grabbed the cassette at the local Sam Goody and was forever changed. As a hair-metal fan, they opened my eyes to a new world of music. Gretchen Goes to Nebraska, to this day, is in my top ten all time favorite albums.

Tim


Posted By: Wanorak
Date Posted: February 18 2017 at 14:28
Muse.

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A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!!


Posted By: Thatfabulousalien
Date Posted: February 18 2017 at 14:44
Kings X are a really great band!

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Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV.

https://www.soundcloud.com/user-322914325


Posted By: Jeffro
Date Posted: February 18 2017 at 19:21
Saw Kings X back in the early 2000s with Dio at a little theater in Hartford CT. Show blew me away. Been a fan since 91-92. 


Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: February 21 2017 at 14:50
If forced to choose...King's X.

But dislike both.


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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.


Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: February 21 2017 at 16:00
King's X disciple here.  I remember hearing them play live on the radio in a King Biscuit Flower Hour program.   I was hooked by Over My Head and have been a fan since.  I had the pleasure of seeing them play live about 5 years ago at a local theater with local bands Tiles and Mellotron (now Imminent Sonic Destruction) opening for them. 


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Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: February 21 2017 at 16:55
King's X



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Follow me on twitter @memowakeman


Posted By: Pastmaster
Date Posted: February 21 2017 at 23:57
King's X easily, although I can't see what's progressive about either band. The first one is an alternative metal/hard rock band and the other is an alternative rock band with electronic and hard rock influences.


Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: February 22 2017 at 09:19
Wow, KX left Muse in the dust!

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Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: February 23 2017 at 08:19
Muse by a mile. (Not a fan of so-called progressive metal. But that's just me I guess.)


Posted By: Jeffro
Date Posted: February 23 2017 at 08:38
Originally posted by miamiscot miamiscot wrote:

Muse by a mile. (Not a fan of so-called progressive metal. But that's just me I guess.)

Don't really understand how Kings X ever got categorized as prog metal. The majority of their music does not fit into that genre


Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: February 23 2017 at 08:47
Because they are one of the original prog metal bands.  Kind of like Queensryche, they were adding/doing things that metal bands really hadn't done before.  I agree that they aren't very progressive in comparison to most progressive metal bands that have followed, but they were kind of a proto-prog metal type of band; I guess. 

To quote their bio writer (Me): KING'S X have been included on ProgArchives because their music is a mixture of BEATLES-like melodic harmonies and BLACK SABBATH-like hard rock/heavy metal with progressive rock leanings, especially early in their career.

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Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: February 23 2017 at 10:16
King's X aren't a progressive metal band. IMO, they're not even a metal band, but a hard rock band.

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Posted By: Jeffro
Date Posted: February 23 2017 at 11:20
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Because they are one of the original prog metal bands.  Kind of like Queensryche, they were adding/doing things that metal bands really hadn't done before.  I agree that they aren't very progressive in comparison to most progressive metal bands that have followed, but they were kind of a proto-prog metal type of band; I guess. 

To quote their bio writer (Me): KING'S X have been included on ProgArchives because their music is a mixture of BEATLES-like melodic harmonies and BLACK SABBATH-like hard rock/heavy metal with progressive rock leanings, especially early in their career.

I guess my point is that I don't hear much "metal" in their music. In fact, in many cases, it's no where near metal. Yeah, they've had some heavier periods but it's never been a focus of their music. Iron Maiden is metal. Metallica is metal. Kings X? Not really


Posted By: Jeffro
Date Posted: February 23 2017 at 11:30
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

King's X aren't a progressive metal band. IMO, they're not even a metal band, but a hard rock band.

I agree. 
I see that they are "prog related" in the database. Let's assume they were proggier, even still metal wouldn't apply to them. Heavy prog maybe.


Posted By: hieronymous
Date Posted: February 23 2017 at 15:48
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

King's X aren't a progressive metal band. IMO, they're not even a metal band, but a hard rock band.

My initial reaction is to want to disagree vehemently with you - to me they have a lot of the elements of progressive rock and are also very metal.

But I think that where I disagree the most is with the whole attempt to categorize them at all - they exceed any simple attempts to define them or limit them to one genre. Paradoxically to my argument, in that sense I think that they are very progressive. Gretchen Goes To Nebraska and Faith, Hope, Love to me are their peak - all the various elements, the vocal harmonies, the varied dynamics between heavy and acoustic, the obscure lyrics, etc. come together perfectly. Maybe Dogman is more metal and less prog, though maybe the "heavy" part of Heavy Metal is more appropriate than the "metal" part.


Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: February 23 2017 at 16:22
I didn't mean to downplay the progressive side of their music. It is there. But to call them a "prog-metal" band is, IMO, inaccurate.

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Posted By: Pastmaster
Date Posted: February 23 2017 at 23:32
Originally posted by Jeffro Jeffro wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Because they are one of the original prog metal bands.  Kind of like Queensryche, they were adding/doing things that metal bands really hadn't done before.  I agree that they aren't very progressive in comparison to most progressive metal bands that have followed, but they were kind of a proto-prog metal type of band; I guess. 

To quote their bio writer (Me): KING'S X have been included on ProgArchives because their music is a mixture of BEATLES-like melodic harmonies and BLACK SABBATH-like hard rock/heavy metal with progressive rock leanings, especially early in their career.

I guess my point is that I don't hear much "metal" in their music. In fact, in many cases, it's no where near metal. Yeah, they've had some heavier periods but it's never been a focus of their music. Iron Maiden is metal. Metallica is metal. Kings X? Not really

Check out "Pillow" from Dogman, that's pretty metal to me.


Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: February 24 2017 at 05:04
Even if I know just a few songs from King's X, I enjoyed them more than anything from Muse.


Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: February 24 2017 at 05:11
Muse by a long way, a far more interesting band.


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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005



Posted By: Jeffro
Date Posted: February 24 2017 at 05:15
Originally posted by Pastmaster Pastmaster wrote:

Originally posted by Jeffro Jeffro wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Because they are one of the original prog metal bands.  Kind of like Queensryche, they were adding/doing things that metal bands really hadn't done before.  I agree that they aren't very progressive in comparison to most progressive metal bands that have followed, but they were kind of a proto-prog metal type of band; I guess. 

To quote their bio writer (Me): KING'S X have been included on ProgArchives because their music is a mixture of BEATLES-like melodic harmonies and BLACK SABBATH-like hard rock/heavy metal with progressive rock leanings, especially early in their career.

I guess my point is that I don't hear much "metal" in their music. In fact, in many cases, it's no where near metal. Yeah, they've had some heavier periods but it's never been a focus of their music. Iron Maiden is metal. Metallica is metal. Kings X? Not really

Check out "Pillow" from Dogman, that's pretty metal to me.

Agreed. Moanjam is too but those are the exceptions in their music. 


Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: February 24 2017 at 08:46
Muse

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Posted By: hieronymous
Date Posted: February 26 2017 at 00:16
I still think that if you think King's X isn't metal, you're nuts! 

But rather than be frustrated, I'm instead going to take it as an opportunity to go back and listen to some King's X! I have a lot of driving to do this coming week so will throw some CDs in the car.

I totally get that they aren't only metal, or that they aren't pure prog, but I feel that they have very strong prog elements, and that they are often very metal - the metal characteristics that I would point to are the heavy distorted guitars, the crazy distorted bass, the downtuning, and definitely the RIFFS - a lot of their songs are very riff-based.

What's more important, the genre or the music itself?


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 26 2017 at 06:48
Originally posted by hieronymous hieronymous wrote:


What's more important, the genre or the music itself?


LOLLOL well this is Progarchives... the music itself don't mean sh*t. Never has.  It is all about the genre!


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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip


Posted By: Jeffro
Date Posted: February 27 2017 at 04:43
I redact my statements. Kings X is f**king METAL! MOTHER f**kING METAL!!

YEEEAHHHHH! PLAY SOME SLAYER!


Posted By: PhideauxFan
Date Posted: February 27 2017 at 04:49


Posted By: hieronymous
Date Posted: February 28 2017 at 00:42
Originally posted by Jeffro Jeffro wrote:

I redact my statements. Kings X is f**king METAL! MOTHER f**kING METAL!!

YEEEAHHHHH! PLAY SOME SLAYER!

Come on - at least back up your opinion, don't just state your opinion as fact - if you have an opinion back it up, believe in what you say, otherwise it's just empty, worthless, why bother even saying it. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, a lot of people here spout on and on about whether something does or doesn't fit a certain genre without ever giving any definitive characteristics by which we can determine whether or not a certain piece of music or band fits within a given genre. That's the easy way out, how about we study music and listen deeply to the music we love, instead of saying "x isn't this, it's that" - are you even a fan of this band you claim to understand genre-wise? Maybe one of the reasons I love King's X so much and have followed them, buying every single CD I can get my hands on for the past almost 30 years, is the cold hard reality that they actually transcend genre, listen to them because you love them and love the music they put out! If you're just categorizing them I guess I can just ignore you, what I probably should have done in the first place...


Posted By: Jeffro
Date Posted: February 28 2017 at 04:48
Originally posted by hieronymous hieronymous wrote:

Originally posted by Jeffro Jeffro wrote:

I redact my statements. Kings X is f**king METAL! MOTHER f**kING METAL!!

YEEEAHHHHH! PLAY SOME SLAYER!

Come on - at least back up your opinion, don't just state your opinion as fact - if you have an opinion back it up, believe in what you say, otherwise it's just empty, worthless, why bother even saying it. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, a lot of people here spout on and on about whether something does or doesn't fit a certain genre without ever giving any definitive characteristics by which we can determine whether or not a certain piece of music or band fits within a given genre. That's the easy way out, how about we study music and listen deeply to the music we love, instead of saying "x isn't this, it's that" - are you even a fan of this band you claim to understand genre-wise? Maybe one of the reasons I love King's X so much and have followed them, buying every single CD I can get my hands on for the past almost 30 years, is the cold hard reality that they actually transcend genre, listen to them because you love them and love the music they put out! If you're just categorizing them I guess I can just ignore you, what I probably should have done in the first place...

I agree with you that they transcend genre which makes categorizing them as metal even more perplexing. That's my point. 

Okay, I got sarcastic with my Slayer post. Big f**king deal. However, if you feel like you have to ignore me after interactions in one thread, then so be it. Go for it. No hard feelings.


Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: February 28 2017 at 09:07
Originally posted by hieronymous hieronymous wrote:

I still think that if you think King's X isn't metal, you're nuts!
 
They're too eclectic to be distilled down into a single word like that, be it metal, prog or whatever.
 
Songs like "Summerland," "Shot of Love/It's Love," "The World Around Me," "Send a Message," "Flies and Blue Skies," etc. aren't metal. I know Ty's guitar playing (and his covetable tone) might be the single greatest element to suggest they may be a "metal" band, but to me it's always been an example of how versatile those three guys are.
 
I'd rather discuss why aren't recording a new album, though. LOL


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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: February 28 2017 at 15:04
I flipped a coin.....Muse won.

Smile


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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin


Posted By: hieronymous
Date Posted: February 28 2017 at 22:47
Originally posted by Jeffro Jeffro wrote:

I agree with you that they transcend genre which makes categorizing them as metal even more perplexing. That's my point. 

Okay, I got sarcastic with my Slayer post. Big f**king deal. However, if you feel like you have to ignore me after interactions in one thread, then so be it. Go for it. No hard feelings.
I apologize - I was drunk when I made that post! I did express what I was feeling but it shouldn't have been directed at you. I think I just don't belong here - I find discussions of genre very frustrating. To me the best Progressive Rock bands transcend genre, but of course there are also bands that fit into the molds cast by the pioneers. The crazy thing is we may have actually been saying the same thing!

The good thing is that it has me listening to them again - they are a band I have come back to again and again over the past almost 30 years. 


Posted By: hieronymous
Date Posted: February 28 2017 at 22:58
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by hieronymous hieronymous wrote:

I still think that if you think King's X isn't metal, you're nuts!
 
They're too eclectic to be distilled down into a single word like that, be it metal, prog or whatever.
 
Songs like "Summerland," "Shot of Love/It's Love," "The World Around Me," "Send a Message," "Flies and Blue Skies," etc. aren't metal. I know Ty's guitar playing (and his covetable tone) might be the single greatest element to suggest they may be a "metal" band, but to me it's always been an example of how versatile those three guys are.
 
I'd rather discuss why aren't recording a new album, though. LOL
I have to disagree here - I think that "The World Around Me" is very metal, as is "It's Love". So our understanding of what metal is is different. 

But I don't think I am saying that King's X ARE METAL or ARE PROG-METAL - I was frustrated at the statement that they AREN'T METAL - to me, heavy metal is a fundamental part of their musical identity and aesthetic, but they can't be adequately explained by just that one word. 

I need to stop thinking about this stuff! Tongue


Posted By: Jeffro
Date Posted: March 01 2017 at 05:08
Originally posted by hieronymous hieronymous wrote:

Originally posted by Jeffro Jeffro wrote:

I agree with you that they transcend genre which makes categorizing them as metal even more perplexing. That's my point. 

Okay, I got sarcastic with my Slayer post. Big f**king deal. However, if you feel like you have to ignore me after interactions in one thread, then so be it. Go for it. No hard feelings.
I apologize - I was drunk when I made that post! I did express what I was feeling but it shouldn't have been directed at you. I think I just don't belong here - I find discussions of genre very frustrating. To me the best Progressive Rock bands transcend genre, but of course there are also bands that fit into the molds cast by the pioneers. The crazy thing is we may have actually been saying the same thing!

The good thing is that it has me listening to them again - they are a band I have come back to again and again over the past almost 30 years. 

No problem. I apologize for the sarcasm. There's lots of things on the internet that are frustrating to discuss. Wink


Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: March 01 2017 at 05:22
I once heard a Muse track over the radio. I can't remember it.
That's about it regarding this poll.
King's X? Doesn't ring a bell. I keep thinking of this Finnish band called Kingston Wall...but it's not exactly the same methinks.

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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams


Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: March 01 2017 at 09:46
Originally posted by hieronymous hieronymous wrote:

I have to disagree here - I think that "The World Around Me" is very metal, as is "It's Love". So our understanding of what metal is is different. 
 
I've been listening to King's X since a friend lent me his then-new tape of Gretchen in '90. Before that, I'd read a festival review that remarked that King's X "was the only 'real' metal band of the line-up."
 
That said, what I heard surprised me — a lot — as I found myself drawn in by a trio that sounded like no other band on the rock landscape at the time. I thought "These guys aren't really metal...they've duped a lot of people into thinking they are, though!" Which is fine, for marketing purposes. I simply thought they were, and are, too eclectic to be slapped with a label.
 
I feel the same way about early Def Leppard. They were lobbed in with the NWOBHM movement, but I've never felt they were metal. Hard rock, certainly. Not metal. It didn't stop me from playing the hell out of their first three albums back in the day. Wink
 
 


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Posted By: Dr. Occulator
Date Posted: March 05 2017 at 15:36
King's X all the way, great players & songwriters. Muse to me just doesn't have the originality or edge that KX has. 

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My Doc Told Me I Have Doggie Head.


Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: March 28 2017 at 04:19
I thought all these metal pop groups were hard rock bands. Slayer, Daft Leotards and all... the more holocaust-like the more metal, the more musically oriented  the more hard rock... is that the way this goes? Of course I run the risk of talking music rather than genre.
...

Never mind me... I'm still recovering from a head ache caused by exposing my ears to Judas Priest. Yesterday.

Anyway I quite liked Kings X the heavy metal hard rock band but all the alt rock labels on Muse make me think more Dork Rock (my nasty label for 21st C pop groups metal or Mumford) so I haven't even checked them on Spotify.

Right time to change my UK CD for something else... thank gawd for good prog rock....


Posted By: Pelata
Date Posted: April 01 2017 at 15:35
I like Muse a great deal. Saw them open for U2 and was impressed.

But I've been a HUGE fan of King's X since 1988 and it's not likely to change. I'll take King's X every...single...time.

King's X is not, nor has ever been, "metal" of any kind...IMO. They've always been a sort of "left-of-center" hard rock band. They definitely have some progressive influences. I've heard dUg more than once cite Chris Squire as a bass influence. Having come out in the middle of the Winger/Bulletboys era they were like getting hit in the face with cold water...SO not what everyone else was doing.

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Posted By: Pelata
Date Posted: April 11 2017 at 12:36
I like both, but King's X is one of my all-time Top 3 bands.

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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: September 13 2017 at 10:41
King's X
I just listen to them more than I do Muse


Posted By: Chula Vista
Date Posted: September 13 2017 at 12:37
King's X by a country mile. Seen them live 3 times. It's an absolute crime that they didn't end up ruling the world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMQd4quu6Rs" rel="nofollow - Dogman Live

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I'd much rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.


Posted By: Thatfabulousalien
Date Posted: September 13 2017 at 13:44
The band that wrote Gretchen 

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Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV.

https://www.soundcloud.com/user-322914325


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: September 15 2017 at 15:45
can't really vote as I only know one of these (not telling which oneTongue)


Posted By: essexboyinwales
Date Posted: October 18 2017 at 13:55
King's X.  They were my fave band of the late '80s/early '90s.  Stunning live.


Posted By: Cosmiclawnmower
Date Posted: October 20 2017 at 15:52
My daughter bought me 'Origins of symmetry' (on vinyl) in 2001 and I had high hopes for Muse but they really haven't gone anywhere for me..

Kings X were introduced to me by a Rush fanatic (same guy who introduced me to Max Webster and FM) by playing me 'Out of the Silent Planet' & 'Faith, hope love'. Wasn't too sure to start but they did grow on me and I came to feel they were a really great and sadly underrated band.  So Kings X get my vote.


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Children of the future age,
Reading this indignant page,
Know that in a former time
Love, sweet love, was thought a crime.


Posted By: TexasKing
Date Posted: October 21 2017 at 07:28
Muse very easily, based on their early stuff.  
Never cared for King's X at all. 


Posted By: Matt Croegg
Date Posted: November 28 2017 at 06:26
Originally posted by Cosmiclawnmower Cosmiclawnmower wrote:

My daughter bought me 'Origins of symmetry' (on vinyl) in 2001 and I had high hopes for Muse but they really haven't gone anywhere for me..

Kings X were introduced to me by a Rush fanatic (same guy who introduced me to Max Webster and FM) by playing me 'Out of the Silent Planet' & 'Faith, hope love'. Wasn't too sure to start but they did grow on me and I came to feel https://vogueplay.com/au" rel="nofollow - there were a really great and sadly underrated band.  So Kings X get my vote.
 
This one is my fave.


Posted By: Jeffro
Date Posted: November 29 2017 at 12:16
The first four King's X discs are magic. Those albums had a sound and feel that was really special. Dogman is great too but they started to go heavier on that album. A lot of their later catalog is quite varied. Please Come Home Mr Bulbous is one of my favorite KX records but it sounds quite different from a lot of their other stuff. Great band that should have hit big but never did for some reason. They even got some decent MTV airplay with the songs, It's Love and Black Flag.

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We all live in an amber subdomain, amber subdomain, amber subdomain.

My face is a maserati


Posted By: essexboyinwales
Date Posted: November 30 2017 at 09:22
Originally posted by Jeffro Jeffro wrote:

The first four King's X discs are magic


Absolutely!



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