Genesis vs The Residents
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=114818
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Topic: Genesis vs The Residents
Posted By: I prophesy disaster
Subject: Genesis vs The Residents
Date Posted: June 24 2018 at 06:30
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Genesis vs The Residents, which of these is the proggiest? To answer this requires that one consider what it means to be "prog", and these two groups represent rather different meanings of that term. It is up to you to choose what "prog" means to you. I chose Genesis because they are perhaps the best representative of classic progressive rock. I chose The Residents because of their highly experimental oddball nature. This poll is not asking which is the preferred group as it would be hard to compare such very different types of music and any such comparison would be pointless.
------------- No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man. |
Replies:
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: June 24 2018 at 06:56
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Genesis up to the loss of Hackett are one of the proggiest bands around. The musical inventiveness, virtuosity, use of mellotron and the extensive use of visuals to enhance the live experience make them a leader in the field. The Residents are just a bunch of guys fooling around IMO. They may be experimental, but they are a musical disaster area. They make Captain Beefheart seem normal. I don't even think they are progressive at all, at least not in the sense that it was used in the late 60s when I was one of the first aficionados of the genre. I understand that the meaning of prog is different to newer recruits and they may say, "It's prog Jim, but not as we know it", but to me, it's not prog. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: June 24 2018 at 07:35
Ahem. I am definitely not a "newer recruit" (though I was not around quite as early as you; I had my first prog experiences in 1972 at age 3 due to my elder brother who is 10 years my senior and who had to look after me while my parents were working), and I definitely agree with Progbones McCoy. -------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Hercules wrote:Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: June 24 2018 at 08:50
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I'm glad both bands are here but have never really understood the
rationale behind the Residents inclusion on PA. (but then I've also
never considered most Krautrock as Prog either and I like quite a
lot of that) Maybe this is really the crux of the OP i.e. a variation
on the Prog v progressive debate?. There are many who believe the
current RIO/Avant placement is fitting for the maverick
Louisianians but I couldn't provide an argument against that welcome
being extended to the likes of Devo, Wall of Voodoo, PIL, Tom Waits or
Pere Ubu (the list goes on) so where do we draw the line? For
me the Residents roots are firmly embedded in 60's 'trash/kitsch'
psychedelia and their (earlier) music encompassed a DIY punk ethos that
exploited by necessity, whatever crude lo-fi gadgetry they had available
to create sounds (garage electronica?) There are also elements of Harry
Partch, Forbidden Planet OST, Raymond Scott, Dick Hyman et al
referenced in their output. Whether that makes them progressive or even
avant-garde is debatable but I discern a 'backwards looking' aesthetic
that seems to resemble a weird hybrid 'retro futurism' (Yes, the view from inside my own backside is lovely thanks  ) One of the most notable features of the Residents' sonic arsenal is their ability to warp recognizable timbres obtained from one source into those originating from another e.g. On 'Duck Stab' from 1978 there is some conventional bowed articulation on the accompaniment, but it seems to come from the brass, as though the horn players had swapped instruments with the violinists. Is this 'acoustic modeling' prefacing the digital sampling revolution by several years?  ------------- 
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Posted By: Larkstongue41
Date Posted: June 24 2018 at 09:27
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Substituting "proggiest" (I dont believe in such a thing) for "more adventurous", the Residents clearly. ------------- "Larks' tongues. Wrens' livers. Chaffinch brains. Jaguars' earlobes. Wolf nipple chips. Get 'em while they're hot. They're lovely. Dromedary pretzels, only half a denar." |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: June 24 2018 at 12:44
I'm with you on this one. I completely agree.
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Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: June 24 2018 at 13:02
Both represent different definitions of 'progressive.' Genesis in that they used symphonic structures to create sophisticated rock, The Residents to experiment with the nature of music itself. I tend to support the more conventional definition here as represented by Genesis but gave my vote to the Residents.  ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: Upbeat Tango Monday
Date Posted: June 24 2018 at 13:04
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Genesis. The Residents sounds like the avant crap I used to play when I was 16 and got my hands on a bass for the first time. ------------- Two random guys agreed to shake hands. Just Because. They felt like it, you know. It was an agreement of sorts...a random agreement. |
Posted By: Mormegil
Date Posted: June 25 2018 at 06:08
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Genesis up to Mr. Hackett's departure. I can't tag The Residents as "prog" - their sound is way too "out there", at least to my ears. ------------- Welcome to the middle of the film. |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: June 25 2018 at 06:34
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The Residents is to prog as Dada is to art. ------------- 
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Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: June 25 2018 at 07:26
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residents is artist with lot albums i prefer music that tendency to symphonic, prog , classical i am not interested totally in experimental What supposedly prog songs RESIDENTS have MADE IN PROG
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Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: June 25 2018 at 08:43
To me prog is an amazingly inappropriate genre label, and the choice in this poll illustrates its half-bakedness very well. "Es gibt kein richtiges Leben im falschen." (Theodor W. Adorno; "There's no right life in the wrong.") |
Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: June 25 2018 at 09:00
| I love The Commercial Album (and I don't mean any of the three man Genesis records either...) |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: June 25 2018 at 09:10
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To make people choose between the respectable well-known English farmer-gentleman and the astonishing anonymous American underground-eyemen is like asking if one prefers cannabis-flavoured tea with a hint of brandy or a pizza with hallucinogenic mushrooms. Luckily, there's a common ground: good ol' Uncles Zappa and Beefheart from America and our men in Germany (Neu! or Faust, anyone?)
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Posted By: Raccoon
Date Posted: June 25 2018 at 16:44
The Residents made Six Things to a Cycle, which balances jazz with avant-garde classical (based on a ballet they created). The whole album of Not Available is pure prog, being a concept album with different characters. I probably like The Residents at my age more than Genesis, but Genesis were one of the pioneers of the movement, so the vote's pretty easy. |
Posted By: questionsneverknown
Date Posted: June 25 2018 at 16:53
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Ooh, somebody is being cheeky now. The avatar to my left should say something about where my loyalties lie, but I don't think I'll click this bait. The Residents have meant a great deal to me, but so has Genesis. Both have been brilliant in what they've done. But my apples are resisting being put in the same bowl as the oranges. Or perhaps the chalk is fighting the cheese to adapt the apter metaphor. I think Mr Lemming gets it right above, and I can't add much more. I'll only add that The Residents have a lot more going on musically than some are indicating here--yes, there is some musicianship going on. Folks like Fred Frith and Don Preston understood that. But is the music prog rock? Not sure. Do they push the boat out? Sure. Many, many bands here on PA, and so many, many that I hold dear. But this tent has become a big, big tent--one that includes Miles Davis's Kind of Blue and Super Furry Animals's Phantom Power (both great albums to my ears). It's a nice tent, and it keeps the rain out, but I sometimes wonder if there's anybody still left out there, outside the tent. ------------- The damage that we do is just so powerfully strong we call it love The damage that we do just goes on and on and on but not long enough. --Robyn Hitchcock |
Posted By: Raccoon
Date Posted: June 25 2018 at 17:07
When my friends and I visited San Fran, we searched for the address of the Residents' (the one listed on the records) because we're fans. We were led to these strange apartments, and I asked where some neighbors where this address was, and where the Residents were. Everyone was confused. Good fun, though! |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: June 25 2018 at 17:11
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In regards to the Residents, I don't get it, I am not inclined to get it in the future, and truthfully, I don't want to get it. There is nothing that I have heard from them these many years that I find endearing, compositionally interesting or even worth an extra listen. If that is what is considered "progressive" then I am not inclined to progress to that specific realm of self-actualization. I guess I haven't evolved to the point where that is music. I like it right where I am at, blithely comfortable in this leather chair. Although a mint iced tea sounds good. Perhaps someone will bring me a glass. Hello? Hello! Damn, I have to get up.
------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: June 25 2018 at 18:29
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^ Ditto....except have someone bring me a mint julep. ;) ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: June 26 2018 at 09:15
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Genesis all the way. ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: June 26 2018 at 10:34
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What if the Residents were Genesis in disguise? |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: June 26 2018 at 14:14
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genesis ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: June 26 2018 at 18:21
What if the band that released albums after And Then There Were Three was actually a wedding band currently playing all the hits at the Ramada Inn in Des Moines, Iowa? ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: June 27 2018 at 10:29
You heard about the rumor saying that the Residents were the Beatles in disguise, right?
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: June 27 2018 at 13:11
you didn't even like "Eskimo"? in my opinion one of the greatest albums of all times. sheer genius -------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: austrianprogfan
Date Posted: June 27 2018 at 14:31
| An interesting question, it really depends on how you define "proggy". I'd say Genesis is more prog while the Residents are more progressive, if that makes sense. Can't vote in the poll anyway, I'm probably to new. |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: June 27 2018 at 16:16
Wrong. This was said of another band. Hint: The Residents were occupants of interplanetary craft. -------------
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Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: June 27 2018 at 17:38
Sorry Jean, although I appreciate the breadth of your musical experience, I personally am uninterested in listening to random noise spread out over 39 minutes. I will say the last composition on the album "The Festival of Death" at least has some coherence and is relatable to the indigenous music it strives to imitate. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: June 27 2018 at 18:12
it is not random noise at all; every single sound has a meaning and there is coherence everywhere. you should read the stories associated with the tracks while listening to the music
------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Dopeydoc
Date Posted: June 29 2018 at 15:20
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Genesis, by a mile |
Posted By: Junges
Date Posted: July 01 2018 at 15:11
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The Residents, easily. Genesis only played Symphonic Prog and then became a pop band. Every Residents's album is different. In that sense, Residents is proggier than Genesis. ------------- 
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 02 2018 at 10:23
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Yeah, baby! ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 02 2018 at 10:32
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BTW, if you are unfamiliar with The Residents during the Molly Harvey era, I highly recommend Animal Lover... ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: July 02 2018 at 21:26
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The extent of Genesis' experimentalism is undervalued. ------------- A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now) |
Posted By: I prophesy disaster
Date Posted: February 02 2024 at 11:37
I've only listened to "Eskimo" once, and it didn't appeal to me in the way that "Not Available", "Duck Stab", or even "Diskomo" appealed to me. ------------- No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man. |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: February 02 2024 at 11:40
| Genesis |
Posted By: Floydoid
Date Posted: February 02 2024 at 11:49
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Genesis ------------- 'We're going to need a bigger swear jar.' |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 02 2024 at 12:02
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The Residents, because they never went pop. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: February 02 2024 at 12:04
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While I most definitely support having The Residents in PA (and have put it under the spectrum), I generally would not use the word Prog to describe The Residents. Experimental, it can be progressive... I would call classic 70s era Genesis Prog. Seems a bit too lopsided for me. Setting my brain to randomise setting 11 (a very wacky setting), I will choose between these two as most Prog: Well whad'ya Know?, The Residents win this time. Who would'a thunk? |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: February 02 2024 at 12:43
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Genesis are the proggiest for sure. The Residents still got my vote, as I responded to the Genesis vs The Residents-title without reading the Poll Question. ------------- 
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Posted By: mellotronwave
Date Posted: February 02 2024 at 15:38
| Genesis what else? |
Posted By: Hector Enrique
Date Posted: February 02 2024 at 16:09
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I have always found it difficult to connect with the music of The Residents, except for some occasional sparks. Genesis played in another league until Hackett left. ------------- Héctor Enrique |
Posted By: Boojieboy
Date Posted: February 02 2024 at 17:45
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I've loved Genesis for decades, i.e. the 70's albums. Tried the Residents and couldn't get into them. Stupid stuff. Sorry. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: February 02 2024 at 20:01
No worries, we all have our off days. (just kidding) Seems some may be voting preference rather than answering the poll question "Which of these groups is the proggiest?" I think the answer is obvious when talking classic Genesis at the least. "Which is more progressive?" would I think have elicited more support for The Residents than they have had. |
Posted By: Octopus II
Date Posted: February 03 2024 at 01:34
Genesis 
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: February 03 2024 at 08:39
| Although I've heard of them since around 1988 I know next to nothing about the Residents (and have heard very little if any of their music) so no vote. |
Posted By: Moonshake
Date Posted: February 03 2024 at 11:59
| Genesis |
Posted By: I prophesy disaster
Date Posted: February 03 2024 at 13:15
I don't actually buy into the distinction between "prog" and "progressive". To me, "prog" is simply an abbreviation of "progressive rock". As I said in the OP, this poll is not about preference between the two groups, but about what you think "prog" means, using the two groups as representative of two distinct meanings. Although the poll result may be tainted by people voting for their preference instead of answering the actual question, I don't see the poll result as a win for Genesis, but rather as an indication that the people here tend to adopt the relatively narrow view of prog (although it is possible that I'm inferring too much from a vote of Genesis given that people may view Genesis as proggier than The Residents for a variety of reasons). ------------- No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man. |
Posted By: Boi_da_boi_124
Date Posted: February 04 2024 at 07:59
| I voted The Residents, the band that sold me to the avant-garde. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: February 04 2024 at 08:23
Although I would generally capitalise for this meaning, when I see the term proggy or proggiest that to me generally indicates being like the Prog-genre and most like the Prog genre. It is the old progressive (noun) vs. progressive (adjective) thing. This is an interesting topic to me and to see how how people answered/ approached this. To me progressive rock can have various connotations, and I often think of it as synonymous with unconventional rock, and The Residents would win that for me. It can be seen as rock without boundaries, non-generic, non-canonical, genre bending, genre-breaking, bring in anything rock. I got what you were asking/going for, however, which is more important to me than how I define in such cases, and did vote The Residents. Funny thing with the Prog term, which of course is short for Progressive Rock, is that the more codified as a genre it becomes, the less progressive as in it is the more generic. |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: February 04 2024 at 09:06
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I find it a little strange, voting for a band I have known and lovely deeply for over 40 years now, against one I've literally never heard of! Just looked them up and am staggered to see that they have 43 Studios to their name.. and no doubt, counting!? ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: February 04 2024 at 09:22
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You probably heard of them but did not store the information. I'd be very surprised for someone who joined in 2005 and has posted in the forums as much as you have that you would have never heard of The Residents. I knew of them years before I joined this site as they popular with several people at the sci-fi site (lexx.com as FunkET) I belonged to before joining this one. I had heard music by them before that from watching late-night music vids and UBC university radio. That said, I spend too long at this site so I read lot of topics on music from many people even if those topics do not automatically look to be of interest to me and I have the kind of brain that stores such things. It is band that I have expected long time forum members with sizable posts counts (unless they stick to Just for Fun) to know of at the very least, but then I think you were not very active for years. And That is the kind of stuff I get wrong in my assumptions about again and again. |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: February 04 2024 at 09:31
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^^ Well, can you name something by them I'm most likely to have heard of, so I can Yt it? I notice they are listed under RIO; a genre I have mostly avoided over the years... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: February 04 2024 at 09:41
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^ I was just surprised that you would not recognise the name because the band name does come up in threads, but not thinking you would recognise their music. But probably you have not read nearly as much at the forum as I do. I know plenty of names from every category here, including those that I am not keen on. I have spent too much time here. They are pretty out there avant-prog (not RIO which is a specific thing). I would not expect you to like them. This is the first thing I saw from the band that I recall, and I would not expect you to know it or enjoy it. |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: February 04 2024 at 10:25
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^^ Oh dear God, not my thing at all, Greg!! Seriously, do people actually 'enjoy' music like this?? Sounds like a complete ordeal to me...  did manage to reach the end, though... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: I prophesy disaster
Date Posted: February 04 2024 at 12:51
The four songs of the video come from "The Commercial Album". The story goes that The Residents paid a radio station for 40 one-minute advertising time slots to have the album played on the air. So, whereas one might think "The Commercial Album" is named ironically, in fact the album is literally 40 commercials. ------------- No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: February 06 2024 at 12:38
To me it's fun, weird in a good way, and interesting, and I prefer the music with the images. I have grown to appreciate The Residents nore and more over the years, but then the strange has always appealed to me. Eskimo was the breakthrough album for me about 20 years ago when I was more into experimental music than now. I like The Residents when it's more conventional musically often. This is a fave of mine: |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: February 06 2024 at 13:45
Thanks for your dignified response, Greg and I'm sorry for my disrespectful outburst above...  I'm afraid I will always enjoy more conventional prog, with VDGG, KC and GG being on the periphery of my tastes in that regard. I'm pleased that you and others here find enjoyment in such idiosyncratic art, but now in my mid-50's, I seriously doubt I ever will. I will try to give your suggestions a listen, every once in a while... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: February 06 2024 at 18:00
No problem, Jared, I had no problem with your response.
Nothing wrong with liking the more conventional, and most anyone who can get along with VdGG, KC and GG is good with me (three of my favourite bands). I actually mention a lot of music I like, but I don't recommend that much. In this case I used those as illustrative, because that first video happened to by my first exposure and the other one is at least more conventional than that and I commonly like The Residents when it is more on the melodic side (at least melodic for The Residents). For recommendations, sometimes I do try to show a different side to an act if it seems apparent that someone has a narrow perception, but that does not mean I expect them to like it. I like to try to recommend when I feel I have something that fits adequately a request for recommendations. Most of those don't get acknowledged by the one asking for suggestions, to so I would not assume that my recommendations were good. I do like to try to be helpful in that way even if it's not music I like. That's something I have appreciated from others when I have made requests, and I have been recommended lots of great for me music over the years. But I ramble... |
Posted By: VianaProghead
Date Posted: February 08 2024 at 05:38
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Genesis. ------------- "PROG IS MY FERRARI". Jem Godfrey (Frost*) |