Renaissance: Ashes Are Burning
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Recommendations/Featured albums
Forum Description: Make or seek recommendations and discuss specific prog albums
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=116180
Printed Date: July 19 2025 at 00:30
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Topic: Renaissance: Ashes Are Burning
Posted By: SteveG
Subject: Renaissance: Ashes Are Burning
Date Posted: August 22 2018 at 04:53
| The second album of the mach2 band with Annie Haslam combines an orchestra with key tracks for the first time and produces a trademark sound. Let's discuss this classic prog album. |
Replies:
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: August 22 2018 at 05:03
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In a show from back in the day, Annie described it as the album "that keeps bringing us back to America again and again". Had the album not done well in America, it's possible the group may have sunk and folded a few years down the line. It was a game changer for them. At the same time, it was also nothing like the albums that came afterwards. There was still a strong pastoral flavour on this album (Sean Trane, no fan of Mach II from what I can tell, describes this as the last link to the old Renaissance in his review) and the mood too was still pretty sunny. Turn of the Cards would establish the quintessential Renaissance sound (George Starostin also calls it the quintessential Renaissance album, while rating Ashes as their best album). I also think was some of Dunford's strongest songwriting and possibly he was still getting contributions in that department from McCarthy. But Annie wasn't quite 'ready' for this album at this point; not that she's even remotely bad here but would flesh out the emotions on these tracks better in later years. That is why I have come to prefer live versions of the title track, Carpet as well as Can You Understand and also prefer the few live versions of Let it Grow and At The Harbour that I have heard. Also, with orchestra playing a minimal role on this album, these tracks translate better to live shows (without orchestra) than the subsequent albums.
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: August 22 2018 at 06:52
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For me, it's wonderful balance of classical and folk and the lead off track "Can you Understand?" still gives me goose bumps when I hear Tout's piano intro following the gong! ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: August 22 2018 at 07:22
| The track itself was my introduction to Renaissance (apart from Northern Lights when it was in the charts), love the album but I'm not sure if I could separate it from Scheherazade. |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: August 22 2018 at 07:23
Mach2 - that's pretty fast!
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SteveG wrote:Posted By: deafmoon
Date Posted: August 22 2018 at 07:25
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This album is in my Top 10 Prog albums. Though I like Prologue a great deal, particularly for Rajah Khan; Ashes had the band come together with the perfect combination of writing, structure and confidence that carried them forward and set the tone for the next several albums. After the Big 6 Classic Prog Bands, Renaissance was right there! Haslam's voice is just an instrument of beauty. And every musician in that band was extremely high caliber. I really miss the fluidity of playing from Camp and sadly Tout and Dunford have left us too soon. ------------- Deafmoon |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: August 22 2018 at 09:39
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: August 22 2018 at 09:42
| Mach 2 ain't stratospheric enough for Annie. She'll get there and with ease. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: August 22 2018 at 09:42
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The title track, I'm afraid to say, never really did much for me. However, I couldn't imagine Renaissance ending a concert without playing an extended Ashes are Burning, with Annie doing that thing she does. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: August 22 2018 at 09:49
Wow, I love that track. Of course, the live version makes it even more special.
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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: August 23 2018 at 11:56
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A great album....what else needs to be said...? But personally I have always liked 'Turn Of The Cards' better. The 1st one I bought was 'Prologue'....liked the weird cover at the record store at college.....went back many years later and bought the early ones with the original band. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: August 23 2018 at 13:05
| My favourite album from the band is Turn of the Cards... but any of the 3 studio albums I have (Ashes, Cards and Scheherazade), plus the Carnegie Hall one, is just about as good. Still, I much prefer the Ashes are Burning song on Carnegie Hall over the studio version. |
Posted By: Squonk19
Date Posted: August 23 2018 at 14:16
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A classic album, although I also have a preference for Turn of the Cards. Carnegie remains one of the best live albums ever and many of the tracks covered gain something extra live. Annie's voice does amaze me at times! ------------- “Living in their pools, they soon forget about the sea.” |
Posted By: hellogoodbye
Date Posted: August 23 2018 at 14:33
| I prefer Scheherazade, but it's a very close second. |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: August 23 2018 at 14:45
| I haven't heard it in a long time but I remember liking it. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: August 23 2018 at 21:23
Indeed the songs gain something, though I can't really point it. In other band's live songs, I can hear more energy, extended solos, something different, that in many cases make the songs better (or worse, even). But in Carnegie Hall the songs are played almost excatly as they are in the studio albums (except for Ashes are Burning, of course), yet they do sound better to me... like more organic, warmer, but I can't really point it out. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: August 23 2018 at 21:51
Well, for one, they play Carpet faster at LATC and many shows up to the mid 70s than the recording. Did that with other songs off other albums like Running Hard as well. And Annie sings the songs better live which probably lifts the band as well. You should especially check out live performances of Day of the Dreamer. There is almost a call response going on between Annie's vocal delivery and Camp's basslines in the middle verse. |
Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: August 24 2018 at 15:22
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I love the breakdown section of the title track. It's both light hearted and dark at the same time somehow. Oh, and the guitar solo is just incredible. ------------- 
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: August 24 2018 at 21:27
I think those particular ones that were played faster are the ones I actually prefer on their studio versions, though I hadn't really noticed that difference. And yeah, Annie's singing is better too. I guess it's weird for a rock singer to actually sing better on their concerts than on studio. I guess another one capable of doing that is Jon Anderson. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: August 25 2018 at 04:23
The ones with kinda wobbly technique like AXL are the ones who may not fare so well live vis a vis the studio. In heavy metal too, like Annie, the singers can often produce better live versions. Because you need solid fundamentals to be able to belt out notes cleanly in terms fifth octave without resorting to shrieky rasps. I don't know whether you are into Black Sabbath, but on Live Evil, Dio breaks into high melismas on the chorus of Children of the Sea and it's beautiful. Jeff Buckley was also terrific live. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: August 25 2018 at 05:15
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: August 25 2018 at 21:10
I do like some Sabbath, though I don't remember that particular characteristic on the live version of the song... yet indeed Dio is another one who can do whatever he wants live, and make the songs even better. On the other hand, considering Sabbath, I think my very favourite album (and almost the only one I need from the Ozzy albums) the reunion live album. It's got almost all the most essential songs from the Ozzy era, and almost all of them are much better than the originals. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: August 25 2018 at 21:15
But what do you prefer on that song, Andy Powell's guitar solo, or Annie singing those parts. It's a bit difficult for me to decide, for both give the song a cool eerie atmosphere to end the song, but I should give the edge to Annie's singing of the part, just because it's one of her most chilling performances. I can imagine them choosing what to do with the song live. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: August 25 2018 at 22:01
I never liked Ozzy live much, don't mind him on the 70s bootlegs. But as far as the studio albums go, I overwhelmingly prefer the Ozzy albums, especially Sabbath Bloody Sabbath and Sabotage. The Dio led band may have been tighter but it was also not much like the Sabbath of old, as Ozzy himself remarked and which predictably didn't go down well.
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: August 25 2018 at 22:06
Powell's solo is beautiful and emotional. But Annie's live vocalise is just unprecedented. I am not talking about the LATC version here which is still pretty modest compared to what she would do at Capitol '78, Boardwalk '79 and Park West '83. I have no clue why the band left out the Boardwalk performance of Ashes are Burning from the Song of Scheherazade DVD. Could have easily been the highlight of the entire DVD, even with most of the vocalise post the Imagine the burning embers verse focused bizarrely on the rotating crystal ball.
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: August 26 2018 at 21:08
The only live ones I know from them are Reunion and Live Evil. Particularly on Reunion I love how they pumped so much more energy, and turned the songs into real metal songs, with the more modern crunching guitars. The studio versions sound too tame for me after that, and I just can't enjoy them the same. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: August 27 2018 at 03:57
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