King Crimson: Red
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Recommendations/Featured albums
Forum Description: Make or seek recommendations and discuss specific prog albums
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=116700
Printed Date: May 19 2025 at 13:20
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Topic: King Crimson: Red
Posted By: SteveG
Subject: King Crimson: Red
Date Posted: November 06 2018 at 11:15
| The most accessible of the early Crimsons or just another good album? |
Replies:
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: November 06 2018 at 11:34
| I'm not sure that it's the most accessible -- for certain types of music lovers, such as those into hard rock or heavy metal, then quite likely yes, for others I would recommend they try other Crimson first. It may not be my favourite Crimson album, but I still think that it's pretty awesome. |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: November 06 2018 at 11:43
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Red is flat-out awesome. Yes, it's heavier, and yes, maybe it does sound a little more mainstream compared to earlier albums, but that doesn't matter. When John turns up the gain on his bass, smoke pours out of the speakers! ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: November 06 2018 at 11:48
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Why is it a great Crimson album? 4 words. One More Red Nightmare  ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: November 06 2018 at 11:49
| It can sound positively evil, which could scare the more timid of people and other invertebrates. |
Posted By: Argo2112
Date Posted: November 06 2018 at 11:52
| Probably my second favorite KC album right behind LTIA. |
Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: November 06 2018 at 11:57
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Not so much an early album as a middle period album, Red is very accessible and remains my fave out of the whole lot. ------------- "It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: November 06 2018 at 12:07
What this guy says! ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
The.Crimson.King wrote:Posted By: Chaser
Date Posted: November 06 2018 at 14:47
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Not just another good album, but the best KC album for me ------------- Songs cast a light on you |
Posted By: Boojieboy
Date Posted: November 06 2018 at 14:54
| Good, but winding down at that point. Fripp was ready to check out. Despite the guests, the band dwindled from 5 (two albums ago), to 4 (one album ago), now down to three. |
Posted By: Dopeydoc
Date Posted: November 06 2018 at 14:57
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The best KC album (with IRCOTCK). Ideal when you're reading Lovecraft novels |
Posted By: Squonk19
Date Posted: November 06 2018 at 15:31
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Gorgeous album! Probably my favourite King Crimson album (just edging out ITCOTCK). I never tire of Starless! ------------- “Living in their pools, they soon forget about the sea.” |
Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: November 06 2018 at 17:12
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f**king slays! Best KC album. ------------- https://gabebuller.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - New album! http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385 |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: November 06 2018 at 17:21
| Red seems like the Close to the Edge of KC to me(although "court" could also receive that title) in that it's the one that in recent years has received a lot of praise and seems to rank high on all time greatest prog album lists(including the one on this site). Not that it doesn't deserve it but in my opinion I think it's a little over rated. I prefer LTIA personally. |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: November 06 2018 at 17:31
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Awesome album. Badass attitude meets supreme standard in performance and composition. This kind of in-your-face sound was missing in prog and boy was it welcome. |
Posted By: hellogoodbye
Date Posted: November 06 2018 at 18:56
| The end of a chapter (but not of the book) and the prescience of a rough sound to come. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: November 06 2018 at 21:27
| This album took some time to grow on me, and when I first got it I was rather disappointed, given how much praise it usually gets, I rather expected something else. Of course, now I do find it great... but somehow I wish it had been done with David Cross still on the band (even if Fripp considered him the weak link in that line-up, I found his contributions great)... I was particularly disappointed to find the studio version of Starless didn't include violin (since I first got to know the song for the live versions, and got so used to it that for me that intro was made to be played with violin - and actually it very likely was written that way), and the final comeback of that main theme, I still feel it sounds more powerful with electric guitar instead of the sax. However, still the weak part of the album (as seems to be the case with many) is Providence... if they were going to include an "improv" from their previous tour, they should have included the one that was named Ausbury Park on USA (though I still don't know how much of an improv it really was, since it appears many times with different names on the Great Deceiver live album / box-set). |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: November 06 2018 at 23:09
This so much. THE KC album for me. There's a redlining tachometer in the artwork and that sums it up for me. Menace, gloom, anguish, longing, everything is amped up like never before and never again on a KC album. The coda of Starless is unforgettable for me.
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Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: November 07 2018 at 00:06
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Fairly solid album. Not crazy about starless, angel or nightmare like other prog heads are though. ------------- All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock. |
Posted By: Argo2112
Date Posted: November 07 2018 at 11:00
Someone on the site once refereed to Providence as a "boat anchor" I thought that was pretty accurate.
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Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: November 07 2018 at 11:42
That was me My point was if they wanted to include an improv, there were so many better ones from the '74 tour (The Golden Walnut, A Voyage to the Centre of the Cosmos, Is There Life Out There?, etc). OTOH, I've read that Fripp was nearly impossible to work with in the studio while recording Red (refusing to make decisions and taking passive aggression to a new level) so maybe Providence was all they could agree on  ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: Argo2112
Date Posted: November 07 2018 at 12:37
| ^ That could be, It's definitely the weak link on that album. |
Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: November 07 2018 at 12:40
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A behemoth, and my second-favourite studio album from first-phase KC after LTIA. Though it must be said that if I was choosing my top ten KC recordings none of them would be studio albums. ------------- Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to. http://bandcamp.com/jpillbox" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp Profile |
Posted By: Chaser
Date Posted: November 08 2018 at 06:29
Anyone who thinks Providence is weak just hasn't "got it". I fully sympathise. I used to skip this track for many many years. I thought it was a jumbled mess and I couldn't make and sense of it. I thought it was weak and ill conceived. But one day I didn't skip it and everything just connected for me when I played it and I understood it. I love Providence now, and, rather than skipping it, I skip straight to it. I regard it as the second best track on the album, behind Starless.. I think of the track as lots of individual strands of music that sit in opposition to each other until they are drawn together by John Wetton's bassline, which is the key to the whole track. Here the bass guitar, rather than being a backing instrument, comes to the fore and brings the whole piece together. The other instruments then assemble around Wetton's bassline and disharmony is transformed into harmony as the instruments start to play in unison. Wetton's strong bass line rift dominates the track as it comes to a close taking the other instruments with it. Love this track now and its definitely not the weak link on Red. ------------- Songs cast a light on you |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: November 08 2018 at 11:53
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The first two are still the most 'accessible' imo.....though there are accessible songs on all of their albums. Red is my second favorite after ITCOTCK.....not sure why but it really resonates with me...probably due to Starless. I have 3 copies...2 on cd and one on original vinyl.....so it's an important one for me. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: November 08 2018 at 12:43
There are no weak tracks on Red. That's a myth. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Chaser
Date Posted: November 08 2018 at 13:08
Yep. Agree with that. Every track is top class. ------------- Songs cast a light on you |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 09 2018 at 00:14
| Red is their best imo. I love every single second of it and bought the Road To Red box set which is my most expensive music purchase. One the best prog albums and makes my top ten easily. |
Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: November 12 2018 at 20:24
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My least favorite from my most favorite period. I like Lark's Tongues and Starless and Bible Black so much better. I particularly love the live improvs on SABB. Of the tracks on Red, the most brilliant I think is Providence, once again a live improv. ------------- A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now) |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: November 12 2018 at 20:35
I agree with everything you said up until Providence. That's my least favorite. I much prefer the improv on SABB. I'll admit "starless" is one of their best tracks ever but other than that the album doesn't go beyond the first two or LTIA in my opinion. I'll never really understand the appeal of "red" in particular. I like the intro part but most of the track is just way too repetitive(not to mention too long). It's a six minute song that should have been three minutes imo.
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: November 13 2018 at 01:04
I agree. Every track a gem. These days I'm probably loving Fallen Angel most of all. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: November 13 2018 at 02:01
| Yes its all great and I can understand how Providence isn't a standout-track on its own but it certainly works perfectly within the album-context. To me it does. Apart from King Crimson there's not a whole lot of bands I can think of that really nails "free rock improvs". A lot of times it comes across like the directionless amateur-jams it often is. |
Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: November 13 2018 at 04:14
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Imagine if Fracture had replaced Providence... don't worry providence, the edit on the album or the full version with the funky guitar part... (Great Deceiver I think). For the most part the album is stunning, crucial and has one of the most awesome classics ever - Starless. Talk about going out on top...
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Posted By: GrafHaarschnitt
Date Posted: November 13 2018 at 05:33
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I don´t think King Crimson can be called accessible at all. There is not a single accessible crimso rec. Except for the first one maybe. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: November 13 2018 at 05:55
I think some of the 80's KC is fairly accessable. Some tracks off Thrak! and The Power to Beleive are also not too hard on the ear either IMO. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: GrafHaarschnitt
Date Posted: November 13 2018 at 06:03
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Yeah you´re right I was excluding the later ones. Just till Red. That was a really wild phase. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: November 13 2018 at 08:44
It was indeed. I hadn't listened to KC for a while, but after going to see them a few weeks back, I dug out al of those albums and have been playing them to death. I forgot how much I enjoyed Lizard. That seems to be a divisive album. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: TCat
Date Posted: November 13 2018 at 09:13
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King Crimson is just the best. That's what I think. Even their lower rated albums are better than most band's best. Beat gets a bum wrap because it's a bit misunderstood, but since I figured out it had to do with The Beat Generation, it makes more sense. Thrak is definitely rated too low as it is one of my favorites. But Red is also always one of my favorites all around along with Lark's Tongue. But I just love them all. Even the projekcts. ------------- https://ibb.co/8x0xjR0" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: November 13 2018 at 11:05
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2 things about "Starless" 1) the main instrumental melody is VERY similar to that of "Exiles" 2) the vocal parts seem quite similar in style to Procol Harum Discuss
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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: November 13 2018 at 11:59
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^ Similar...not very similar imho...they are both mellotron drenched slow ballads for the most part.....and many Procol Harum tracks are also slow keyboard drenched ballads. So the cadence (no pun intended...) is bound to be similar at times. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: GrafHaarschnitt
Date Posted: November 13 2018 at 12:23
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Exiles has even phrases of Angels Carol... where is the point. There aren´t a thousand different tones. |
Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: November 13 2018 at 16:58
^ ^ ^ I agree exactly with what he said.
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