Jethro Tull vs. King Crimson
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Topic: Jethro Tull vs. King Crimson
Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Subject: Jethro Tull vs. King Crimson
Date Posted: December 06 2019 at 02:54
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Which one gets the nod for you?? ------------- “War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
Replies:
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: December 06 2019 at 03:16
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Jethro Tull I just listen to them more. Need a special mood for KC.
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Posted By: Foxprog
Date Posted: December 06 2019 at 03:19
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King Crimson all the way. The only album I fully enjyoy from Tull is TaaB... |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: December 06 2019 at 03:25
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KC by a mile. Can't remember the last time I listen to Tull. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: December 06 2019 at 05:59
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About 20 years ago I would have said JT, but KC has really grown on me over the years, so KC it is. ------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
Posted By: Chaser
Date Posted: December 06 2019 at 06:04
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KC is the most ground breaking and innovative of the two and has more albums that I put in my personal top 50 than JT does ------------- Songs cast a light on you |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: December 06 2019 at 06:37
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KC is more important to prog in the grand scheme of things, but I far prefer listening to Tull. KC leaves me cold. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: Mormegil
Date Posted: December 06 2019 at 06:38
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Tull gets the nod. ------------- Welcome to the middle of the film. |
Posted By: Mudpuppy64
Date Posted: December 06 2019 at 06:40
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Tull |
Posted By: digdug
Date Posted: December 06 2019 at 06:47
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Crimso is awesome but Tull ------------- Prog On! |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: December 06 2019 at 06:56
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KC is the only big 6 band in my personal big 5. I love a lot of Tull but they're not quite up there. |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: December 06 2019 at 07:26
| King Crimson! |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: December 06 2019 at 07:43
| My two all time favorite bands. I always prefered Tull, but King Crimson is in deed the better band. |
Posted By: TCat
Date Posted: December 06 2019 at 08:50
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King Crimson. Nobody beats KC for being influential to all music. Even though I'm also a big fan of JT, Crimson is my all-time most favorite band. ------------- https://ibb.co/8x0xjR0" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: December 06 2019 at 09:35
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they are very different, anyway, I think KC have touched some peaks that Tull's never reached. ------------- "Happiness is real only when shared" |
Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: December 06 2019 at 10:42
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Conpar. ------------- |
Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: December 06 2019 at 13:14
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Tull easy. I’d take the trilogy of box sets from 77-79 and 71-73 over any crimson album really. Poseidon is up there though ------------- All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock. |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: December 06 2019 at 13:28
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KC ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: December 06 2019 at 14:15
| Too close for me to choose. I went with Tull just because they are behind. |
Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: December 06 2019 at 14:22
The Stormwatch remix basically has 71-74 crimson covered on it’s own  ------------- All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock. |
Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: December 06 2019 at 14:59
| King Crimson |
Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: December 06 2019 at 15:11
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Crimson, unless there is an ample amount of beer, then Tull. ------------- A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now) |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: December 06 2019 at 15:39
| Dull beats obtuse in my books |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: December 07 2019 at 01:26
| I could live with just one Tull album if it comes to it (TAAB) while even Crimson's later period beats most of Tull for me. Easy vote for Crimson. |
Posted By: tamijo_II
Date Posted: December 07 2019 at 03:29
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Both winner in two different worlds ------------- Same person as this profile: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=22524" rel="nofollow - Tamijo |
Posted By: Fischman
Date Posted: December 07 2019 at 15:57
| Tull for sure. I love KC, but Tull for sure. |
Posted By: Enchant X
Date Posted: December 07 2019 at 18:06
| I voted for Tull but feel a little guilty as I cant really say there's any clear winner imho. |
Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: December 07 2019 at 22:11
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------------- All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock. |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: December 08 2019 at 04:49
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Hard to say. Back in the day I would lean to Tull, but now I lean a bit more towards Crimso. ------------- 
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Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: December 08 2019 at 08:11
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King Crimson. I've been getting really into them lately and they're surprisingly good. I do like Thick as a Brick a lot though.
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Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: December 08 2019 at 22:28
Shakespeare is obtuse until you get it and early Tull isn't Dull although the last couple of albums of Ian Anderson without Martin Barre qualifies in that area.
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kenethlevine wrote:Posted By: thief
Date Posted: December 09 2019 at 02:10
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STATS According to faulty last.fm stats, these two are my number 1 & 2 most listened artists since September 2008. But I stopped caring about last.fm and scrobbling around ~2012, so stats are definitely off, picking up less than half of music I listen to. Even then, Jethro outnumbers KC by 36% (playcount), so they have advantage. Jethro Tull PEAK Jethro Tull's peak albums (Thick as a Brick, Aqualung, Songs from the Wood) are flawless and I always look forward to hear them. King Crimson peak albums (Lizard, Larks' Tongues in Aspic, Red,
perhaps the debut) aren't frequent listens because they require full attention, but once I'm tuned in... let's just say that King Crimson influenced as much as ANY music, it really was a life-changing experience for my adolescent mind. I have to give them a nod... Small advantage, King Crimson PRIME I admit, my definition for "prime" favors King Crimson. It just so happens that Fripp dished out most of the goodies in a relatively short span (1969-74), while Anderson & co. were terrific for more than a decade. To make it somewhat fair, let's make Jethro Tull's prime 1970-75 (from Benefit to Minstrel in the Gallery). Across seven consecutive albums in their respective primes, King Crimson looks better, but this category is tailor-made to their strengths. King Crimson EXTENDED PRIME King Crimson had admittedly good run between 1981-84, the "colorful" era, three decent albums (Discipline is rather great). So they released 10 noteworthy albums (1969-84 combined). Jethro Tull had 16 albums in that time span and only the last one is garbage. In other words, this is 15 decent-to-awesome releases. No band on this site can rival Jethro Tull's consistency between Stand Up and Stormwatch, and it's not like they were done in 1979. If you're the lucky one and you left Jethro Tull "for later", you're in for one hell of a ride. Jethro Tull in a landslide CAREER In later years, King Crimson came back with quite strong THRAK and The Power to Believe. There was also a plethora of ProjeKcts and live recordings in 90s & 00s, but I didn't bother to revisit any of them in years. I'm still looking ahead for new studio material because King Crimson is much tighter and more 'serious' unit in 2019. Jethro Tull hit rock bottom twice in their career (Under Wraps and Catfish Rising), but they also had noteworthy recordings post-1985, especially Roots to Branches and infinitely cute Christmas Album. They were also touring every single year up to 2012! It has to account for something. As I said, King Crimson is closing the gap nowadays, current lineup is both inspired and explosive. I'm leaning to give Jethro Tull a nod here. In my book, JT had 17 albums worth 3 stars on progarchives. KC's catalogue is a bit leaner, I can only count 11-12 albums deserving that grade. Lower rated efforts don't move a needle for me. Small advantage, Jethro Tull SUMMARY It's definitely "apples to oranges" comparison. I can't deny King Crimson's unique impact on my musical taste. On a good day, Robert Fripp and his crew can rival anything in the prog world. It must be said that KC demands listener's full attention - or at least that's my approach. You can't give Formentera Lady a proper listen in public transportation, and singing Starless by the fire is blasphemy. Jethro Tull is much more "portable". There are heaps of songs you can enjoy in your daily routine, be it shopping, driving from work or cooking dinner... and they also have these epic compositions requiring more contemplative mood, i.e. Baker St Muse, Heavy Horses or My God. There is plenty to choose from. Versatility and broad catalogue are Jethro Tull's calling card, so I choose them today. Ask again in a few months.
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Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: December 09 2019 at 03:10
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It’s odd that sftw gets talked about even though horses is better. 1979 is Tulls best year though. ------------- All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock. |
Posted By: thief
Date Posted: December 09 2019 at 03:23
"Better" is subjective if there is a small gap. "Better" becomes objective if you compare, say, "From Genesis to Revelation" to "Foxtrot". |
Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: December 09 2019 at 03:33
Horses has more balls. Both remixes sound bloody good though. Horses also has an extra ep worth of goodies too and Songs has an extra gem called Old aces. I’d give 77 over 4 stars, 78 about 4.5 stars. 79 is 5 stars. Remix is awesome ------------- All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock. |
Posted By: thief
Date Posted: December 09 2019 at 03:54
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Do you have all their anniversary remixes? I only got Songs from the Wood, but I'm interested in getting others, if they're worth. Especially curious about MITG, APP and TAAB live material... Is Stormwatch 2019 that great release?
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Posted By: Enchant X
Date Posted: December 09 2019 at 04:23
| I need to be in a special mood for King Crimson and when I am in that mood I really enjoy it, with Tull I really enjoy it no matter what mood I'm in. |
Posted By: tamijo_II
Date Posted: December 09 2019 at 07:32
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I love Jethro Tull But...... ------------- Same person as this profile: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=22524" rel="nofollow - Tamijo |
Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: December 09 2019 at 12:18
Yeah got all of them. I’ll describe Some for now  Stormwatch is a strong double album. Remix has made me a new fan of broadford, ghosts and sporran which I didn’t take enough notice of before. Loving them. Sporran is longer now too. Always loved North Sea, Ringill, Stitch and a few others but they all sound even better now. Somethings on the move sounds awesome now with its vocal effects. Orion has become a 9 minute epic which contains Martins best moment of his career imo. Love the intro. There’s a busy prog gem called urban apocalypse which reminds me of Gentle Giant in bits. Love early version of Dark Ages too. Every song sounds better. 5 star release for sure. Horses and Songs are the best sounding remixes. Wilson did a great job. Some strong new tracks in Old aces, Living in hard times 1 and 2 and others. A good 30 extra minutes of unrepeated Tull on horses. 4.5 stars for both Aqualung has a double album worth of of goodies with a great remixed sound. Add some fine quad and an early version of 2-3 songs also. 4.5 star Thick is still 4.5 star. Not much more to say  Passion sounds better than ever. Some new sounds and a strong extra minute. Chateau tapes sound a lot better. Left right and Audition are very much classic Tull. A good 30 extra minutes of unrepeated Tull in there. 4.5 star Warchild was meant to be 3 albums. Poppy soundtrack for the critics, an orchestral score and a Tull album of short proggy tunes. We have all 3. This is probably the most rewarding remix. Plenty of cool extras which make up for 3-4 too many pop songs on the original album. 4.5 stars I’ll do the other albums later lol ------------- All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock. |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: December 09 2019 at 12:21
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Crimson King. ------------- I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!! |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: December 09 2019 at 14:49
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KC......over Tull....though I am a Tull fan. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: December 09 2019 at 17:28
With all due respect, mostly all the big Prog bands "beat" King Crimson in influence and music even the lesser known bands do. ------------- “War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: December 09 2019 at 17:32
| Jethro Tull for me. I like all of the Jethro Tull albums I've heard so far, but I only like the first album by King Crimson. |
Posted By: thief
Date Posted: December 11 2019 at 02:05
Great writeup! Got me thinking now, esp that xmas is behind the corner. Any chances of getting new copies / rereleases, or you think it was just a one time project? Also, which live video material did you like the most |
Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: December 11 2019 at 05:11
I think all the 40th stuff is basically sold out. The first 12 albums have been done. Benefit only came out in a small pack though. They started with Benefit 40th, then Aqualung big box the next year. Thick was the first to come out in book format and they continued that format since with the 72-79 albums while doing 50th book formats of 68-69 albums and a 45th book format of Aqualung. So I think benefits will have to get a 50th in that format and I feel they’ll continue the 50th releases as they were pretty popular the first time around. A and Broadsword should get 40th books too. The live stuff is fairly good. The Stormwatch live stuff is up there with bursting out and Carnegie hall ------------- All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock. |
Posted By: TexasKing
Date Posted: December 12 2019 at 06:14
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King Crimson, hands down. Apart from Thick as a Brick, I'm not a Tull fan. |
Posted By: Timeaisis
Date Posted: December 16 2019 at 13:41
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Jethro Tull, no contest. The only KC albums I really love are Court and Red. JT, by comparison, had like a great album every year from Stand Up through Heavy Horses. Something about JT's music you really can't get anywhere else... One day I will give Stormwatch another try...
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Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: December 17 2019 at 00:57
Kind of weird Tull are losing. They have quality remix sets in 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 77, 78 and 79 at the very least. Tonnes of great non album tracks. Crimson didn’t even exist between 75 and 79 lol. I’d still pick Tull over crimson in the 69-74 era but I rate them just as good in the 77-82 era. I’d say they have twice as many quality tunes than crimson. As for Stormwatch, the remix is basically a classic double album. Heaps of quality tunes. Go get the remix sets. It’s Tulls best year. The remix sets are bloody excellent. The existing stuff sounds even better and the tonnes of extras are awesome. Tull actually have 25 albums worth of unrepeated studio songs from 1968-84. That’s an extra 10 albums worth of songs in addition to the first 15 albums. Of my fave 100 Tull songs I’d say half would be non album tracks. Evenly spread over the top 100 ------------- All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock. |
Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: December 17 2019 at 11:03
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Crimso', everyone! ------------- "It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: December 17 2019 at 11:04
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I like both bands about equally(and so refuse to pick one over the other) so no vote. However, I will say this: As an over all band I prefer Jethro Tull. As a purely prog rock band I pick King Crimson.
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Posted By: BarryGlibb
Date Posted: December 18 2019 at 23:23
This
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Posted By: BarryGlibb
Date Posted: December 18 2019 at 23:26
Not really...PA is a Prog site. With KC, every album is prog; with Tull many albums are prog but many albums are not. So that is why KC poll more on this site; because they have been consistently prog from their inception.
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Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: December 19 2019 at 14:03
I consider most 70s Tull prog based. They had some pop tunes in the mid 70s but 70-73 and 77-80 were mainly releases of prog based heavy folk rock. They would have released more prog in the mid 70s but went for a different approach with those albums. But there’s plenty of extra tracks from that mid 70s era that are prog based. We now have a great mix from the remixes. Basically 17 albums worth in the 70s. A dozen worth of prog based stuff, 3 worth of pop and 2 worth of sub par tracks ------------- All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: December 20 2019 at 00:02
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I'm too lazy to cherry pick this and that. Everything Crimson has done is worth taking seriously and they didn't do a Christmas album although can you imagine what it would have been if they had. Just think of Fripp wearing a fluffy Santa hat... so him.
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Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: December 28 2019 at 23:21
| Really love Jethro but it´s again KC. |
Posted By: scruffydragon
Date Posted: December 29 2019 at 03:54
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Crimson. There is something special about a King Crimson record. |
Posted By: Ruby900
Date Posted: January 12 2020 at 14:24
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Crimson - really not a contest. Tull are ok, but Crimson....... ------------- "I always say that it’s about breaking the rules. But the secret of breaking rules in a way that works is understanding what the rules are in the first place". Rick Wakeman |
Posted By: Mirakaze
Date Posted: January 12 2020 at 14:45
Would have been an album full of this, no doubt:
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Posted By: vinylprogger
Date Posted: January 14 2020 at 08:59
| Jethro Tull. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 14 2020 at 09:05
With all due respect, that's the ultimate in revisionism. Genesis leaned heavily on ITCOTCK to make Trespass and you're claiming KC is the least influential of the big prog rock bands?
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Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: January 14 2020 at 09:36
Nice find!
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Posted By: Argo2112
Date Posted: January 14 2020 at 13:20
| Actually close for me but I went with KC |
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: January 15 2020 at 01:59
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The more I age, the more obvious King Crimson's dominance as a force reveals itself to me. ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: January 16 2020 at 15:28
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Lizard is one of my faves but happy family and indoor games suck lol. Haskell sounds so much better in his solo album. 8/10 album though. Islands is ok. A bit of a snoozer though ------------- All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock. |
Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: January 17 2020 at 19:12
No bro, it's not revisionism. Those bands are better and have more influence than Crimson. Yes, Crimso is influential but those other bands took things further and did them better ------------- “War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 17 2020 at 22:57
Better is just your opinion and neither here nor there when we discuss influence. But as far as KC goes, their influence doesn't stop only with ITCOTCK. Do you have any idea how bands, including hardcore punk or grunge bands, have cited Wetton KC as an influence? Again, were any of GG, Genesis, JT, Yes or ELP doing anything remotely like Red album in 1974? The answer is no. Just because you may be a symph prog fan doesn't mean the world revolves around it. |
Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: January 18 2020 at 00:42
Those bands were doing better albums than KC was in 1974 but that's just my opinion. Also, those bands have a rep and influence all there own (Who cares about the genres that were influenced though really?) Yes, influenced grunge with the Wurm from Starship Trooper(that came out a few years beford Wetton Era KC what about that? Should we make a big deal about it? Or a big deal about Rush influencing keyboard rock and emo? Lol) Also, I'm not just a symph prog fan I love all subgenres like eclectic and folk. Just my opinion man. Don't like it? Sorry man
------------- “War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 18 2020 at 01:32
That you are clutching onto one coda that has a lot, lot less to do with grunge than a body of work that spanned three albums (LTIA/SABB/Red) itself shows the lengths to which you are prepared to go to hold onto your 'opinion'. If you have even heard anything at all off those three albums, you know they don't owe anything to Starship Trooper. Again, stop making up stuff just because you dislike a band. Disliking KC is your choice but you cannot bloody well deny their influence when legions of bands themselves cite said influence. Eh, it's your opinion, not a slice of pizza so liking or not liking it doesn't come into the picture. You just don't have any basis to make the claims that you have about KC's influence. I will go one step further and suggest you do this only because taking a contrarian view for the sake of it is appealing to you. |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: January 18 2020 at 02:36
There is an important distinction between influential power and popularity/success that often gets lost over the internet simply because we love our faves  Influence is seeds that blossom whereas the latter has more to do with numbers. Look at it like this: One of the most influential bands I know of is The Velvet Underground. Compared to their peers they sold horribly and were no more than a historic footnote looking merely at the numbers. But without them we wouldn’t have Ziggy Stardust or the Bowie that followed. The whole new wave scene blossoming up through various cracks in the 80s would also be without it’s guru. Or to bring it home to a progger: take the Floyd. Dark Side Of The Moon is perhaps one of the most iconic albums in all of rock..not just in prog, but I’d wager that the early albums from Piper to Ummagumma were and are far more influential in terms of what they spawned of new musical avenues. Dark Side was vastly influential on the productional side of things and basically taught bands how to use the studio as an extra member of the band...but Piper through Ummagumma gave us a plethora of scenes and styles that evolved from the innovative psychedelics of the Floyd. King Crimson is like that. The bands that took their cue from them mostly ended up being innovators themselves and spurred on seeds of their own. The Mars Volta fx. How many bands have evolved from those guys? And that’s just one band. Most modern experimental riff based rock bands, whether prague or more metal based, can trace their lineage back to monsieur Fripp...whether they know it or not. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: January 18 2020 at 02:55
| ^I agree. Even Metallica´s Kirk Hammet was really excited about KC:s Thrak when it came. |
Posted By: geekfreak
Date Posted: April 14 2020 at 08:18
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Crimson ------------- Friedrich Nietzsche: "Without music, life would be a mistake." Music Is Live Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed. Keep Calm And Listen To The Music… < |