Focus vs. Gryphon
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics related to progressive music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=122819
Printed Date: April 28 2024 at 04:17
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Topic: Focus vs. Gryphon
Posted By: Logan
Subject: Focus vs. Gryphon
Date Posted: April 25 2020 at 07:15
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These were two of my very favourite bands when I was first exploring Prog. In fact, I knew these before I recall knowing the term Prog. Here are for of my favourite tracks from each band off different albums: ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Replies:
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: April 25 2020 at 07:36
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Focus I could never get into Gryphon, to put it into kind words.
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 25 2020 at 07:48
You might not have tried the right albums with Gryphon. Treason, and Raindance, would I think we your best bet. I like all Gryphon albums very much personally. On the other hand, that example might be seen as rather twee (as with other Gryphon stuff).  The crumhorn (and bassoon) and certain Gentle Giant like qualities, as well as a Neo-medieval tweeness, or just tweeness in general, would be off-putting to various people. Treason rather reminds me of early Yes in part.------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Cristi wrote:Posted By: Mormegil
Date Posted: April 25 2020 at 08:24
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Going with Gryphon for this one. ------------- Welcome to the middle of the film. |
Posted By: dougmcauliffe
Date Posted: April 25 2020 at 08:25
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I tried Gryphon once and didn't like them but I don't vote off of one listen. Just wanted to comment to show some love for Focus, amazing melodic band! ------------- The sun has left the sky... ...Now you can close your eyes |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: April 25 2020 at 08:39
it's fine, I don't have to get into everything, I bet I can list bands and albums you would never listen to, and it's fine.
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 25 2020 at 08:49
Agreed, and funnily enough, I wrote something of the same sentiment and then I edited it out. It bothers me nought that people have different tastes, and there's more than enough to listen to and try that one thinks is likely to appeal than digging hard to try to find something that appeals from a band that hasn't appealed. I was thinking those albums might appeal, but then thought, probably not and of course I don't know how much you already have tried of Gryphon. I understand why it wouldn't appeal. I have often been pleasantly surprised in conversations here when people suggested music of bands I thought I didn't like at all, but I'm not very good at recommendations at the best of times. I can totally get why it wouldn't appeal to various tastes, even when it comes to the more rock and mainstream Gryphon. As I often say, to each his or her own tastes, and in tastes there can be no dispute. I appreciated you taking the time to respond and your post gave me something to think about and share. I am interested in what people like and don't like (and why) as I'm interested in people and having a variety of conversations. EDIT 2: "I bet I can list bands and albums you would never listen to". Bet on! Okay, maybe not in full, but I would be be willing to try some tracks. I like to challenge myself and be challenged. If I don't like it, that's fine. I'll give my honest appraisal (I made a topic before for reviewing tracks by bands you think you dislike, and discovered some good stuff there). I'm open to trying any music. I don't like everything, but I like to think I have fairly broad tastes and am reasonably open-minded, and have explored much that wouldn't be in my usual comfort zone. Variety is the spice of life, even if some spices appeal more to me than others. I can't imagine any band that I wouldn't be willing to at least try if someone asked me and I had a link to the music. If it was long and it didn't appeal, I might not listen to the whole thing, mind you. So please do throw one my way, I'd like to try something new and different to me, and I do hope to expand my tastes. I'm genuinely excited to try if you will throw one my way. I've discovered so much music thanks to the forum. In no way is this meant to imply that you should do the same in case it seems that way, by the way, but I like that sort of forum interaction. ____________________________________________________ I wrote this before seeing your response, so this is just a general commentary and not part of that particular conversation. I love both. With Gryhon, I find that it can be a bit too samey at times. I love Red Queen to Gryphon Three, but the album feels overly formulaic to me, like each of the four tracks has the same basic pattern. But then if it's emulating chess in a way, I rather get that. I think Midnight Mushrumps is my favourite as it does have some more variety while being progressive. I like all of the Gryphon albums very much actually. Red Queen is the one that got the most play. I could fancifully liken this poll to the battle between Bond and Scaramanga in The Man with Golden Gun: "A duel between titans... My crumhorn against your flute." On a related note, I once had this as my post quote: Scaramanga: A duel between titans... my third nipple against your Walther PPK. Bond: What, your three nipples against my six bullets? Scaramanga: I only need the third one, Mr. Bond. Bond fans will know that Scaramanga as played by the amazing Christpher Lee had a superfluous mammalian gland, a supernumerary (third) nipple, as well as a very cool golden gun which took only one bullet. Speaking of superfluous...  I really do need to learn to Focus more.------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: April 25 2020 at 09:05
| This is a hard choice, but I'll go with Gryphon, but just by a hair. |
Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: April 25 2020 at 10:12
| Focus |
Posted By: gr8dane
Date Posted: April 25 2020 at 10:22
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Focus easy.Only like Gryphon's Treason. ------------- Shake & bake. |
Posted By: geekfreak
Date Posted: April 25 2020 at 10:26
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This is a hard chose two excellent bands but by a fration Focus ------------- Friedrich Nietzsche: "Without music, life would be a mistake." Music Is Live Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed. Keep Calm And Listen To The Music… < |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: April 25 2020 at 10:53
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Focus. Haven't heard that much Gryphon but it didn't grab me. Focus at their best are as good as anyone. |
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: April 25 2020 at 10:59
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Really tough one. Both bands were early fav's of mine. But each band really had one outstanding album, Focus - Moving Waves and Gryphon - Red Queen to Gryphon Three. So if I stack those two up against each other I'd have to pick Focus - Moving Waves. ------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Posted By: Chaser
Date Posted: April 25 2020 at 11:03
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Midnight Mushrumps is proving a wonderful start to my home working days. Beautiful music. Gryphon! ------------- Songs cast a light on you |
Posted By: Cosmiclawnmower
Date Posted: April 25 2020 at 11:17
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Ooh you b****r (I mean that affectionately!) what a choice to have to make! I love both for different reasons.. oof.. if ive got to go down on one side it will have to be Focus, if only cos I had a cheap compilation of theirs when I was about 12 which was one of the things which opened up rock (progressive and otherwise) for me! And I cant live without Focus III/ Answers? Questions!- Questions! Answers? from Focus 3. I discovered Gryphon later in my teens and all 4 Transatlantic lps are very dear to my heart! ------------- |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: April 25 2020 at 13:12
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I suppose Gryphon. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: April 25 2020 at 13:35
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Focus are one of my favourites whereas Gryphon never made a big impact on me. I should try out the Treason album though... ------------- https://gabebuller.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - New album! http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385 |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: April 25 2020 at 13:46
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Voted Gryphon to even things up... ;) but actually like them equally. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: April 25 2020 at 15:51
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Focus. My history with them goes back to 1971. Nevertheless, Gryphon also has some good points (I love Lament and their comeback album has some great tracks as well). ------------- 
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 25 2020 at 16:26
^ Thanks for all the responses, I wrote a post addressing each one I hadn't responded to, but then I thought, hmm, that might look over-the-top, and I do over-the-top far too often.
Treason is kind of Gryphon-lite, I might say. It's a nice album on the "Yes" and "Genesis" side of things. It's mostly harmless. I used to like it a lot. I do like "Spring Song" a lot and other songs. It's definitely a departure from earlier Gryphon, gone is that medieval feel, and no crumhorn, to which some might say "I've got a fever and the only prescription is more crumhorn". Treason is a bit of a funny name for it, because that implies a crime (against the state). Some Gryphon fans might have found this to be enough of a departure that they might not forgive the state of this Gryphon album, but it's too sweet and nice to be darkly criminal. If it be Treason, then it be low Treason rather than high Treason. But that's my take on it, and others may disagree. ;) ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: zeuhl1
Date Posted: April 25 2020 at 16:53
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Love both but Red Queen to Gryphon Three is one of my all time top ten albums in all prog genres. One of the better stereo system test albums to boot. |
Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: April 25 2020 at 19:44
I played the Lament track just before and it was very nice. I should give Red Queen to Gryphon Three another go. That was one I checked out years ago (probably once), found it pleasant enough and moved on. I've found I seem to love a lot of what would be categorised as 'later-and-not-as-well-received albums by prog bands', so this could be the ticket, because if Beat is one of my favourite KC albums, A is one of my favourite JT albums, Breathless is one of my favourite Camel albums, Cunning Stunts is one of my favourite Caravan albums and I love Gentle Giant's last three, then anything is possible! Not that Treason seems to cop a ton of flack, but you know what I mean. These days I'm gravitating to the late 70's more and more too  ------------- https://gabebuller.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - New album! http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385 |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: April 25 2020 at 22:12
| I wouldn't call myself a fan of either but Focus takes it easily. |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: April 25 2020 at 22:53
| I’m going to go with Gryphon. And my favourite album of theirs is the debut. But all of the 5 70’s releases are quite special. I like Focus a lot too. |
Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: April 25 2020 at 23:36
| I iike dynamics in my music so Focus easily--I get what Gryphon do and sort of heard it all before--Focus is more original. |
Posted By: Enchant X
Date Posted: April 25 2020 at 23:57
I tried to get into Gryphon but couldn't where as I found Focus immediately appealing , my vote went for Focus 
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Posted By: VianaProghead
Date Posted: April 26 2020 at 03:38
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Focus. ------------- "PROG IS MY FERRARI". Jem Godfrey (Frost*) |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: April 26 2020 at 03:39
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If there was a vote for both, I'd have taken it. Both superb bands. But, having to choose, I'll go by a tiny margin for the band that made two of the greatest long tracks of all time - Midnight Mushrumps and Ein Klein Heldenleben - and the incredible Spring Song. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: April 26 2020 at 03:41
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Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: April 26 2020 at 03:49
Don't worry about how something "looks". It's easy not to read something if there's too much written for reading it all. I don't read a fair bit of your stuff because it's too much for me, but I'd never say "write less" and I find things in your writing that enrich me, so it's worth it.
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 26 2020 at 09:28
Thank you, and thank you for your feedback. I want to be be able to express myself more coherently and succinctly, while maintaining my individual style. How readable something is, how well it flows, its form and style, the word-choice, as well as the ideas being expressed, is important to me. I would like to be more concise, say much in few words, be better organised, be clearer in intent, manage to keep nuance, and to be relatively comprehensive without being dull. It's hard to get the balance right between being concise and substantial, and that balance differs depending on the individual. I like to read substantive, but not excessive posts commonly. If a really long post is well-structured and well-thought-out, then it can be very readable, I find. A really good post commonly is informative and entertaining, and commonly lends itself to enjoyable discussion. Even I have trouble reading my own posts sometimes, partially because it's so bloody repetitive, rambling, and boring -- not terribly insightful or illuminating. I think what I write is 99 percent crap. It wouldn't be good enough to be printed on toilet paper even if toilet paper (pity the trees that gave their lives for such crap) was in very abundant supply. It's meaningful to me as I write it, but then the process of taking a big crap is meaningful, and the results are rather the same. A crap by any name would smell as fetid. I'm quite good in my work with writing, but I think I'm really bad at it in the forums. I think that I should rein it in. The way I look at it is that I'm writing for myself, but also for others, especially when I'm responding to others. I often try to create a fairly comprehensive picture in a post, but if it's not readable or understandable, is boring to most, or to the person I'm responding to, or doesn't seem to add value to the discussion, then the time I put into writing it might well have been better used elsewhere (well, that time would almost always be better served in other activities). My intent is too often misinterpreted by some, and the crux of my arguments often are seemingly missed in discussion, and that's my fault for not being clearer. I try to write in a sufficiently nuanced manner, but sometimes I write shorter on purpose, leaving out things that I thought too obvious to state, but then regret that omission in discussion as what may seem obvious to me may not be obvious to others. It's such a tricky balance to get right, saying enough that one's intent is clear and the argument/perspective is sufficiently explained and to add nuance and a variance of perspectives, but not so much that people won't bother reading it or the central points get lost in the mix. I should think when putting forward an argument: Are the premises sufficient, relevant and acceptable, and is it readable to others? I need a lot of work when it comes to sharing my perspectives/ ideas. I do like to write creatively and especially attempts at humour. I tend to free-associate in forum writing. I originally typed up a much, much longer one that covered far too much ground, then scrapped it before pressing submit. Such stuff would be better suited to a personal blog. I'd call it "The Diarrhoea Diary". This is still turning out longer than I had hoped. Effective communication can be very difficult, especially when dealing with a disparate audience. My wife sometimes tells me,"Think things through carefully before you say something, then consider not saying it at all." It's good advice. Mostly, I think I need to be a better listener and work harder to engage with what others are saying rather than spinning things off as much as I do in different directions, and be more to the point, and lose some of the absurdity. I don't want to write in a way that lends itself to excessive dissonance, I seek consonance with others, and my favourite discussions commonly are those that lead to a synthesis of ideas. I personally like to read those posts that make me think, give me a new perspective, generate discovery, make me laugh, or give me the warm and fuzzies. I don't care that much about style, length or content with others as long as it seems friendly and accommodating. My favourite posts tend to leave me feeling good, in higher spirits, not exhausted and confused. Mind you, sometimes I like those that confuse me at first since I enjoy deciphering those, and when those click, it's rather like the experience I have with some music or like when a joke clicks. I have penetrated the mystery and had some kind of revelatory experience.:) ------------- Just a fanboy passin' through. |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: April 26 2020 at 10:08
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Gryphon. Focus is too hit and miss -------------  https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: April 26 2020 at 10:23
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I now love Gryphon but had never heard of them till discovering PA. Focus, on the other hand, was one of my top 4 or 5 favorite bands throughout my teen years (back in the 1970s). ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: April 26 2020 at 19:39
| I just choose the one that gets more spins and that's Gryphon. |
Posted By: CygnusX-1
Date Posted: September 13 2023 at 14:57
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I have loved Focus for a while. I only discovered Gryphon recently and I now love them as well. However, I probably like Focus more overall. Their sense of melody and medieval-classical structures always appealed to me slightly more than Gryphon's medieval instrumentation. However, they are both great semi-obscure prog bands.
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Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: September 13 2023 at 15:23
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Focus ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Moonshake
Date Posted: September 13 2023 at 15:38
| Gryphon |
Posted By: Octopus II
Date Posted: September 14 2023 at 00:53
I really like both 
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Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: September 14 2023 at 03:21
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Focus is my focus of the two. My hydrogen is a lunar base and my toes are lawn yawns. ------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: September 14 2023 at 07:22
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Surprised that this poll is as close as it is. I can't really state a preference given that I don't know much about Gryphon other than maybe they were an even more staid version of Gentle Giant (if that's at all possible!) Focus were massively sucessful in the UK early seventies only at that time outsold by Yes, ELP, Tull and Floyd but generally considered in their bracket. Their performances at festivals were legendary. Great musicians and a nice bit of eccentricity to go with their talent. I would compare them to ELP, similar talent level and maybe a bit scattergun with ideas and not always on the same page. Shame that Van Leer and Akkerman had to go separate ways but also inevitable. Pierre Van Der Linden is way too overlooked as a drummer. No 2 ton drum kit needed but boy can he play!
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Posted By: O666
Date Posted: September 14 2023 at 13:22
| Hard poll. I pick Gryphon . |