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Not all of a sudden. They did bury the hatchet fifteen years ago or so otherwise they wouldn't have played together at live8. It seems that David Gilmour still holds a grudge though and is being a bit selfish. Too bad. 

Yes and that is what is sparked Rogers whining again.....He's crying cause the Mother video will not be posted on the Pink Floyd website.

It's Roger being Roger....

You can see it was a facade really.

Roger physically overplays his part and David looks like the old curmudgeon we've known him since the 80/90's.

Yes, we've seen the Mother rework, but also a relatively dumb intervention crying some more about David's ownership of Floyd. Roger shouldn't post when drunk.

Roger needs to get over it, so yea. Plus David has stated recently that Pink Floyd is over, done, kaput he has no interest in doing anything new Pink Floyd. 

So I suppose Roger will stay the course and issue The Wall v.10 

Yeah, I listened to about a minute of it. His voice is shot.

It was already when he was half his current age. I made it through the whole vid and I perceived that the grins of this 76yo have noticeably increased in quantity.

I'd agree that Nick is the real custodian (and band archivist, FTM) nowadays.

Saucerful was supposed to play tonight in Brussels. Hopefully, he'll come back someday.

Nogbad_The_Bad wrote: Seems petty of David to exclude Roger but given Roger's behaviour over the years I can'y blame his pettiness.

Yeah, but I can understand Dave not wanting Rog shoot his mouth off towards BoJo or Trump on the PF.com site as well.

Waters' mouthing is kind of uncontrollable, especially after a night out (or in since we're in the lockdown) drinking.

That's immediately what I thought as well!

Yup, you can easily imagine Donald Duck Trump sending out hit men after Good'Ol Rog

Hi,

At the end of the day, at my age, nothing is prettier and better than the smile of a child, or a woman, or a close one next to you, that is/was so valuable to you as a youngster.

I find it really sad to see these guys kind of go at it, but Roger over did his welcome in doing that wall a few too many times, and his work has suffered because of it ... it does not have the quality, the beauty and the great rock band that he housed for his first 3 or 4 albums.

I think, in the end, these guys have to make it up, because if one of them falls away, the financial side of things is going to be a huge mess, and I have a feeling that these agreements have more to do with the financial side of things than they do with the music itself, and this is probably something that both he and DG will not discuss, because we're probably talking millions each year and then some ... and they would both get embarrassed in the press when details showed up ... two old fudgers fighting for 10 more nickels!

I don't listen to either of them any more ... I really have had way too much PF in my life ... and the only person I really miss right now is Mr. Wright, and the other one I will miss is Mr. Mason. And the two big mouths can take a leap into the worthless never land of who has the most money and can make the most!

BTW, you don't want them to bury the hatchet, because one of these days, Eugene is going to wake up!

ssmarcus wrote: I dont know much about Roger's internal squabbling with Pink Floyd but the dude routinley does and says things that are straight antisemitic.

For the sake of civil discourse, I think Roger Waters a self pitying attention seeking hippy sh*t stirrer but that's really beside the point. Why is it that anyone who criticizes Israel's foreign policy is branded anti-semitic? This would be like blaming the Catholic Church for the atrocities perpetrated by the IRA. It's perfectly fine to take issue with a colonialist policy that has resulted in illegal occupation of Palestinian territory, blockade of the Gaza strip, failure to allow post-war Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and ineligibility of Palestinians in occupied territories to vote in Israeli elections. These views are not just held by a millionaire rock star but by the United Nations and mainstream European churches who also consider the annexation of East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights in 1980 by the Jerusalem Law and the Golan Heights Law as ultra vires and unrecognized as binding by any other nation. Fighting back when you're invaded by what happens to be another race doesn't make you a racist. Grow up.

I am with Roger! Pink Floyd is not his band. That is soo ridicules !! It is Waters words that he sings in concerts!!! so pathetic!!!

 So you are calling Waters a Racist!!

ExittheLemming wrote: ssmarcus wrote: I dont know much about Roger's internal squabbling with Pink Floyd but the dude routinley does and says things that are straight antisemitic.    For the sake of civil discourse, I think Roger Waters a self pitying attention seeking hippy sh*t stirrer but that's really beside the point. Why is it that anyone who criticizes Israel's foreign policy is branded anti-semitic? This would be like blaming the Catholic Church for the atrocities perpetrated by the IRA. It's perfectly fine to take issue with a colonialist policy that has resulted in illegal occupation of Palestinian territory, blockade of the Gaza strip, failure to allow post-war Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and ineligibility of Palestinians in occupied territories to vote in Israeli elections. These views are not just held by a millionaire rock star but by the United Nations and mainstream European churches who also consider the annexation of East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights in 1980 by the Jerusalem Law and the Golan Heights Law as ultra vires and unrecognized as binding by any other nation. Fighting back when you're invaded by what happens to be another race doesn't make you a racist. Grow up.

But when for example in his new Mother video he answers the line "Mother should I trust the government?" with his mouthing and facial expressions......Ask the question but then leave the answer/opinion up to the listener, that's more powerful than making a statement.

ssmarcus wrote: I dont know much about Roger's internal squabbling with Pink Floyd but the dude routinley does and says things that are straight antisemitic.

Waters is anti-zionist, not anti-semituic.

But this nuance probably flies by your head withpout you even noticing it did.

Catcher10 wrote: My biggest problem with Roger Waters is not about his political views, but that he divulges them constantly and still expects the fans to like his music and lyrics today, or agree with him. I could give a rats a$$ about his political beliefs, views or opinions. But when for example in his new Mother video he answers the line "Mother should I trust the government?" with his mouthing and facial expressions......Ask the question but then leave the answer/opinion up to the listener, that's more powerful than making a statement.

Rewatch the video, reading his lips and you'll hear: "No f**king Way"

Roger Waters is a great man. And as for "Comfortably Numb", he's right.. It's on record. You can hear audio of David singing scat with the D-A part, and Roger filled it with lyrics, but also the music (Bm-A-G-F#-Em), melody and lyrics.

Roger is a humanitarian. I think so lowly of anyone who throws the "Why can't he just stick to..?" (Why can't you just stick it up your ass?)... Roger has ALWAYS been political (read the lyrics, again), and has always been anti-Establishment, outspoken, and a supporter of human rights, and not only when it was trendy. I think its because of the "trendy justice whoriors".. When it comes to Palestine, "both sides" are not equal - it's completely one-sided.... Everyone on Earth understands this, except my home country of the US, which I can't understand. There's the same bullsh*t media everywhere else, but people know its bullsh*t. I think its self-censorship more than anything - people are too chickensh*t to speak their mind like Roger, so maybe they're just jealous.

As for the latest sh*t, I do think its silly for the Pink Floyd website to advertise Polly Samson's sh*tty books which never got any attention until the PINK FLOYD influence. David wouldn't even put up a link of Roger's. Roger wrote most of the music, 99% of the lyrics, all the themes/concepts, which is probably another reason I not only admire him, but will defend him, and anyone else who gets shafted because of ignorance.

Yes I know....That's his opinion to not trust govt and we all know what he means.....That's my point, I don't care what his belief is. Leave the lyrical meaning up to the listener in the song for more impact, or he needs to change it from a question to a statement.

Well Roger left Pink Floyd, due to creative differences in 1985. Then the legal fight started which was really about money and Roger claiming Pink Floyd was broke and was creatively spent, so it needed to be broken up. After the settlement Pink Floyd continued and Roger went on his way......Roger has nothing to do with Pink Floyd after 1987, he retained rights to The Wall hence we will have Reissue Wall Tours till the end of time, he is not Pink Floyd so he has no right to be on the Pink Floyd website....He just thinks that David and Mason are fine with it now since it has been 33yrs.

His website should be called "Roger Waters-I'm The Wall"

He has been ranked #4 in a top 10 of antisemitism, released by the Simon Wiesenthal Center some 6 or 7 years ago. But his alleged antisemitic imagery does not bug me too much - it just fits in the story. It's just the fact that the Protocols of the Sages of Zion still seem to resonate with some people and the whole BDS thing for which he pushed himself as the main spokesman that I find annoying.

How can you say that? when the man is Pink Floyd even though legally he can't tour as pink  Floyd without Mason as Gilmour can as he tours with Mason, but for God's sake that is mostly his music and lyrics. If He wants to destroy the band that he gave his soul and mind, then why he keeps visiting those songs he wrote during the Floyd' years?  Because that's what the fans wants to hear? and where the money is? Well it is his music and words. He is entitled. I think Guilmour is been such an ass to Waters. 

Waters turned from a driving force to dictator really quickly, marginalizing first Wright, and then the other two by the time The Final Cut came out. I have never understood how Wright did not have writing credits on WYWH (well except Shine On, what about the rest of the songs, plenty of keys, don't tell me Waters played those, I don't believe you) and Animals (on Dogs and Sheep, no Wright?). 

Also if you listen to The Wall demos and what ended up on the album, Waters was very lucky with Gilmour, Ezrin and Kamen arranging a lot of songs. 

And if you look on his solo work, again, Waters had to surround himself with competent musicians, ffs he invited Clapton to play with him. 

As much as I like Floyd and Waters' solo albums, he's often been a bit dooshy, sorry... 

Wright, by his own admission, fell into a creative lapse period in the time you are talking about. He didn’t blame it entirely on Waters.

Is there no Ignore button to avoid this soulless (and historically ignorant) sh*t?

Amen, thank you.  Waters really seems to think Gilmour and Wright ought to have forgotten Waters' own unseemly behaviour in the 80s.  He sued them - unsuccessfully, thank God - to stop them from using the Pink Floyd, for crying out loud. And now he is upset they won't let him post his material on the Floyd website, but why should they? 

Yes, it's true he said many, many years later that he was wrong to have sued them but that can hardly have made his company a bearable prospect again for Gilmour and Mason.  I actually do think AMLOR and DB are weak albums but I do not blame Gilmour, Mason and the late Wright for not wishing to have anything to do with Waters again.  He was asking for it. 

Ever met AXL? 

no, he jumped off stage and punched one in the face.

It's on video. 

Was it Montreal or St Louis?  Forget which, because both shows were ahem eventful.

Yup, he used all of his musical ideas on Wet Dreams as Gilmour did also on his first solo, bar the future Comfortably Numb. Not only did that leave the path wide open to Waters. But while these two were busy recording on the side, Roger was busy trying to save the band from bankrupcy. If there was a Floyd by The Wall recording time (and still today), it's all thanks to Roger.

Wright was also in depression (marital problems, I think) by 79 and sabotaged The Wall (minimal participation in the creative process) and also by taking holidays once everybody had returned from theirs and the paid studio couldn't be cancelled.

Bonkers went Waters and wanted him fired, and the other two couldn't really object.

Yep, a pretty fair summary. People also forget that Gilmour was keen on sacking Mason at the same time Wright was kicked out.

Waters was, and is, a creative genius. He is also, by his own admission, an egotistical monster, and The Wall contains a huge amount of his personality.

Gilmour is a fantastic musician, and has a lovely voice, and contributed a huge amount to Floyd music.

Wright was, before his issues, a creative keyboardist who was driving much of Floyd’s creative juices.

Mason was a pretty raucous drummer in his day.

Together, they made some great music. Unforgettable.

They fell apart, mainly owing to nice middle class English boys making huge amounts of bunce, and developing staggering egos and personalities to match.

IMO, it might have been better to have called it a day when Waters left. The ego of Gilmour, and to a lesser extent the other two (even though Wright was on a wage), meant they carried on. I remember a very tetchy interview Waters had with Karl Dallas before the court case. He said..”It’s only a f**king rock and roll band. So f**king what? Just leave it as it was”.

Waters is not the sole protagonist. It takes four to fall apart, and Wright was rightly castigated for his attitude, as Gilmour himself said on many occasions.

Actually, I think the better human in Floyd is/was Mason. Read the book he wrote to understand that he's less of an ego the other three were.

I'd also say Wright could never develop his ego fully because he had his nervous breakdown before he could grow it.

From what I see in post AMLOR years, even when Gilmour reinstated him as a full member (to have more legitimacy), Wright appeared to be a broken man. Wright always retained his subordinate-attitude , forever indebted to his Davidness.

Regarding these two amazing musicians and performers, all I can say is what we say in my country: "Puras viejas parecen"

I'm with you 100%.

However...
 

sure...up to 1987 after that he is not Pink Floyd.

idk, there are two categories of PF fans, or maybe three.  One is the DB apologists and I am not in that category.  Two is the St Waters fan club who think his demands are somehow justified after everything he did to alienate the rest of the band.  Third is the ones who do think of the Waters years as the best phase of the band but don't like how he treated them, Mason and Wright in particular.  I belong to the third category and I think a few of us have been posting in this thread too. 

Sounds like a poll is coming.......

^^^

I'd say that Roger is missing one category of Floyd fans: the Syd Barrett absolutists

iluvmarillion wrote: Really don't like this revisionism going on with Roger Waters regarding who wrote what on Comfortably Numb. It's entirely between Roger Waters and Dave Gilmour and has nothing to do with Pink Floyd fans like myself who don't want to know. His feud has nothing to do with us.

I think it's been documented that the song's general musical outlines are Gilmour's, as the song is a leftover from David's solo album in 77. Now it was obviously re-worked to fit in the concept of The Wall * .

Obviously the lyrics are Waters-induced.

But TBH, Gilmour is not even the best singer in that song. His vocals parts are belt out on top of his lung, nearly over-reaching his capacity. Whereas Roger's parts are sultry, voluptuous and dangerous. But that's the way they chose their roles into the song. I'm definitely not sure if it would've worked so well, if they'd have reversed their roles.

* : just like Run Like Hell, BTW. A song that existed during the Animals recording session (and sonically, it belongs more in there than in Wall), but didn't get held back, maybe because of its disco-ish beat (something it shared with Brick pt2)

What about those who love listening to great PF music and even discussing it, but are happy to leave their personal issues alone including all discussions of the kind what bit of the music belongs to whom as a person, who has more merit in their greatness and who contributed more to their downfall... Their music has made my life richer for 40+ years, their feuds don't mean anything to me.

Hurray to you if you can but if Waters very PUBLICLY injects himself into this topic and in fact resurrects it, I won't blame either category of fans for commenting on it.  And their feud doesn't HAVE to mean anything to me or anybody else to have a view on it. It has not diminished my respect for his work in any way but I am not going to be indifferent about what he did to the band either.

Guess it's been so long since I've met them on here that I left them out. 

Agree.....I can spin early PF and have no reservations about Mr Waters behavior, I appreciate the music as a whole not in pcs. I feel I separate the dooshness of Waters being a dooshbag when listening to his talent in the group.

Absolutely right. It is perfectly possible to love the great music he created, and still accept that he acts like a right Mammory gland still times. 

 Don't blame me! My real name IS Judah-Ben. Blame goes to my dad. I guess he just loves Ben-Hur a bit too much. He was 19 years old when that movie came out!

If I have the year right, the only content Pink Floyd should allow on their website by Waters is Pros/Cons of Hitch Hiking. 

He continues to neglect telling his fans that not only did he leave PF but he also sued them, he is playing on the fact that the band has attracted millions of people born in the 80s/90s that like their music. 

And again, he inserts his political BS feelings......

I'm currently watching the Gilmour Live in Pompeii documentary and you can see how very happy Gilmour is with his family, something that must irk at Waters that he does not apparently have, IDK? 

I'm starting to feel sorry for Roger Waters acting like "a right Mammory gland" .

Yup, easy to confuse the narrative now that it's been years since it all happened. Mind, as a guy born in the mid 80s, I am well aware of the kerfuffle that broke out after TFC. But at the time I was getting into PF, we still used to read wiki or fansites to find out the facts as opposed to watching videos so it was maybe harder to fool us.  He's got a better shot now at manipulating people into thinking he's the one wronged by the other three/two.

Come on:

Roger That

Roger "Syd" Barrett

Roger Waters

The Dark Elf wrote: His interviews are always thoughtful and introspective, and he seems like a decent, caring guy who lets his music do the talking for him.

Yeah, nobody is disputing that - well not much anyways: I don't know which artiste doesn't do that kind of basic PR stuff. Same can be said for Roger : thoughtful and introspective, though he likes to explain a bit more his music.

It's just that when when this particular subject arises , they both contract anally and have a constipating diarrhea.

===============

But Roger should really refrain from tweeting around the day after a solid night out (or in - in this case). Clearly, the man's puffed face shows that he ingested a fair bit of alcohol the day before.

have you read yourself??

Catcher10 wrote: DarksideofCollages wrote: Anything Related to Floyd he is entitled to.  sure...up to 1987 after that he is not Pink Floyd.

Squirrels keep food stored in their cheeks till they bury it for a future snack date.....Roger must be doing the same with his alcomohol, allowing him to savor the moment and extend the effects a tad bit longer...

M27Barney wrote: Too many floyd fanboys getting their knickers in a twist...floyd are in my second division, they are never going to threaten Genesis, Yes, ELP, Focus, IQ, Flowerkings, Spocks Beard, Glasshammer...ad nauseum...

Yessssss, I agree that all of those band are a bit nauseating compared to Floyd's 70's brilliance.

Floyd was the most brilliant and progressive band, becayse they questionned and redefined themselves with every new album. I mean not one of their albums sounds like another, and after one second, you know immediately on which album you are on, even with the patchy OBC. Floyd was about ideas, rather than technique or virtuosity.

I mean which other 70's or post 70's band can claim that they totally reinvented themselves from one album to the next?

Floyd was progressive because they progressed with each new album, not like many who simply wallowed endlessly in the little niche they'd created for themselves, until forced to exit the niche because it had become stale.

I'm more of a Wright fan, so for me anything from Meddle to Animals + Division Bells are 10/10 for me. Also, I've a soft spot for The Endless River, even though it's not as good as their golden albums.

As for Roger, I think his political views are crazy, especially when he supports Maduro on Venezuela. Still, I don't think he should have access to the PF accounts because he's simply not in the band anymore.

M27Barney wrote: bet you hate Dream Theater...😁

My hate would be too much honour for DT... They just me to death

... on top of being the second most ridicule "prog" band after ELP.

that's their genius too.

M27Barney wrote: Aye like status quo...👍

Yup,indeed just like for Quo, fir Glass Hammer and Spock's Beard, you got one album, you got them all...

Something that can't be said about Floyd.

I wouldn't say WYWH was much of a reinvention from DSOTM.  Animals from WYWH, yes, likewise, Wall from Animals.

Because Floyd repeats motifs, hooks, licks, chord progressions, percussion patterns, you name it, a lot.  There is an element of continuity between Money and Sheep even if the songs are overall very different.  Likewise Time and the second half of Dogs/Pigs.  And with all due respect, their musicians did not have the galactic talent of some of their prog peers to be able to disguise this fact through their playing.  Contrast this with Genesis who have an essential Genesis sound and template that they were content to use in album after album from Trespass all the way to W&W.  But each album was an exploration of this template in a different way and presented different elements in terms of the meat.  

So I understand where MZBarney's complaint is coming from, the problem is only that he overstates it and completely dismisses Floyd's genius in putting together great studio albums, something that they were far better at than any of their prog peers.  The other bands just wrote a bunch of compositions they loved and released it (Lamb being the only exception and for which Banks and Rutherford duly rewarded Gabriel by firing him). That is why they don't have a particular point of view or story to tell.  But musically, they have more depth than Floyd's 'classic' phase and I would likewise say the first two PF albums had more depth than the 70s classic phase.

 

If more people were aware of the true nature of many of their musical heroes I'm afraid that they would burn all of their previously favorite artist's recordings, like the way Beatles' records were burned in the US in the mid sixties.

So their genius is reinventing themselves and yet sounding the same?  

I'm not a Floyd hater, quite the opposite, but you're not making much sense. 

Agreed. It's very important to separate the man from his work/art. Best example I can think of is classical composer Richard Wagner, whose rabid anti-semitism makes him a terrible person but does not diminish his music. Speaking of terrible people, it's interesting to note that Hitler adored the music of Mussorgsky, Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninov, who were all listed as 'degenerate art' by the Nazi regime.

what about Strawbs?  Obviously not in the same league but I think their peak period, and beyond, was pretty different from album to album while still being recognizable.  You could even prepend their first 2 albums, the first being sunny 60s pop and the second a very pastoral folk record

funny that you criticize fanboys when you are the ultimate Genesis fanboy here, you may have even ruined Genesis for a few people. 

I would not compare Floyd with ELP or Yes, apples and oranges, Genesis as well. 

BTW, IQ is definitely influenced by Floyd 

Why do you misspell names of bands you say are favorite of yours? 

Oh, and Glass Hammer is one of the most tedious (to put it gently) retro-prog bands I've ever heard. 

Without reading thru all the posts, has anyone said they don't listen to PF due to Waters political, religious or people views? Maybe I missed some of that if so.

But yea in general I agree, I think a lot of artists have questionable issues that might push someone to apply gas to their records. As I said I prefer an artist pose questions and then let the listener make up their own minds without nudges from the artist.....that to me is more entertaining and thought provoking.

I thought burning Beatles records was sacrilegious??? WTH!!!