PA's Top Albums from the 60s & 70s
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Top 10s and lists
Forum Description: List all your favourites here
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=123087
Printed Date: April 29 2024 at 09:34
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: PA's Top Albums from the 60s & 70s
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Subject: PA's Top Albums from the 60s & 70s
Date Posted: May 26 2020 at 15:38
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As of this day, 26 May 2020, ProgArchives' database rates the following 30 albums as the Top Albums of the Opening Decades of "progressive rock music," the 1960s and 1970s: 1. Yes – Close to the
Edge 2. Genesis – Selling England
by the Pound 3. Pink Floyd – Wish You
Were Here 4. King Crimson – In the
Court of the Crimson King 5. Jethro Tull – Thick
as a Brick 6. Pink Floyd – Dark Side
of the Moon 7. Genesis - Foxtrot 8. King Crimson - Red 9. Pink Floyd - Animals 10. Van Der Graaf Generator - Godbluff 11. Yes - Fragile 12. Genesis – Nursery
Cryme 13. Van Der Graaf Generator – Pawn Hearts 14. King Crimson – Larks’
Tongues in Aspic 15. Camel - MIrage 16. Premiata Forneria Marconi (PFM) – Per un amico 17. Camel - Moonmadness 18. Yes - Relayer 19. Rush – Hemispheres 20. Jethro Tull - Aqualung 21. Banco del Mutuo Soccorso - Darwin! 22. Gentle Giant - In
a Glass House 23. Banco del Mutuo Soccorso – Io sono nato libero 24. Harmonium – Si on
avait besoin d’une cinquième saison 25. Frank Zappa – Hot
Rats 26. Rush - A Farewell
to Kings 27. Premiata Forneria Marconi (PFM) – Storia di un minuto 28. Genesis – The Lamb
Lies Down on Broadway 29. Pink Floyd - Meddle 30. Miles Davis – Kind
of Blue (1959) What do you think of this list? How does it compare to your own list of Prog's first two decades? Are these the greatest musical contributions progressive rock music has ever made? Has time diminished their lustre and genius? Are modern musical artists just w**kers in comparison? ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Replies:
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: May 26 2020 at 16:02
| No 30 is the only one I have an issue with (surprise surprise) . Sneak in the ELP debut album and then you have it although of course that is still behind a lot of other albums on the PA 100. Also the UK debut album should be represented as that was a genuine go at progression at the back end of the seventies although for some reason its ranked quite low on PA (anomaly?). |
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: May 26 2020 at 20:10
Agreed on all counts. I don't understand the loyalty to Danger Money (or whatever it's called) but the original UK album is a real sonic treat, start to finish--and a five star album, IMnotsoHO. ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
richardh wrote:Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: May 26 2020 at 21:28
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I have to giggle when I hear the words "prog from the 60's" only because prog was barely a thing in that decade. Oh well. I guess if we just say 70's then we leave out that one obvious defining album. ;) |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: May 26 2020 at 23:54
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^ I agree, for the most part the albums released in the late 60s had a more impact in the whole of 70's. Progressive rock has a longer gestation period than say pop music or traditional rock music. The list is acceptable for me, simply because it is due to the ratings of PA reviews, less subjectivity than say a voting poll that will vary widely....I can accept this list more easily. I have almost all of these records, so it gives me a list to work off when crate digging.  -------------   
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Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: May 27 2020 at 00:22
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A rather nice list. Many albums at the top also have high ratings in my own list. By the way, not these KC albums. The only one that qualifies for a top 30 ranking in my own list would be Islands. I miss a few of my own faves here, but one cannot have them all. The prog albums of the 70's have withstood the tooth of time very well. They still set the standard even half a century later. On the other hand, I would not call modern musicians "w**kers". I'd rather save such a term for newer genres which I can barely stand. In the 70's, time had the right viscosity to preserve a footprint and days have hardened since then. Moreover, there were lots of room for pioneers. ------------- 
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Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: May 27 2020 at 00:33
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Not surprising at all, if I ignore the fact that everything here has pretty much been overplayed and over talked about this list is ok. The problem is the big bands are taking too many spots, it would be nice to see only one album by a band, there's no need for 4 Genesis album, 3 Yes, 3 KC and etc. There are so many bands releasing amazing albums in that time but just didn't have the right exposure.
P.S - Altough Kind Of Blue should not be here I think it's as good as no. 1.
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 27 2020 at 02:16
Couldn't you have left out KOB (it isn'ty even from the 60's, it's from the 50's)?   I know everyone of those albums and owned them all at one point, though in some case (the Italians and Camel), I ended up making CD-r compilations. Some haven't aged very well (thinking of Cryme), but on the whole I still agree with it all
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Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: May 27 2020 at 06:22
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I have written elsewhere that I think one key thing that is happening is that the top albums of the 60s and 70s defined the genre. This means that here on PA by and large people meet who know these well and esteem them highly. Later material is not worse in my view, but the best of it, the truly "progressive" ones, move away from the classics in various directions, and people here cannot agree on their favourite direction for later prog, meaning that the 60s and 70s material has far more potential for agreement and therefore high average ratings and numbers of votes (and being discussed in the forum again and again ad nauseam, as some never tire to point out). This is also reflected in my personal view, which is that I think this list is by and large fine and I don't have issues with the vast majority that's there (enough has been written about A Kind of Blue, although Miles could deserve a spot in that list with Bitches Brew, and then I'm never going to be a Rush fan, and Pink Floyd have a big number of albums that are fresher and more ground breaking than WYWH, but that's pretty much it) despite it still deviating significantly from what'd be the top 30 according to my own taste. But I know my own taste is somewhat marginal, and I know these are great albums, even those that I'd rank only at 100, say, rather than top 30. Surely I'd like to see some Can there, but the situation is certainly better than in the 80s and 90s or even the 2000s, where the lists are largely dominated by derivative stuff, and the ground breaking and innovative material that also exists didn't make the cut because some voters didn't like it, probably owing to some kind of purist 70s prog esthetic.
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 27 2020 at 06:35
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Hi, I appreciate that list and everything in it is neat, far out and a great listen ... however, I still have the issue that the list, BASICALLY, only shows 13 artists ... and that means that a similar list could have another 17 artists in it, that also showed how great progressive music was/is. As such, the duplicates make it look like it is rather difficult and impossible to include anyone else in the list, and have folks listen to a few more different things ... the list is grossly missing things from Amon Duul 2, Can, Ange ... for example, which kinda suggests that they were not important or valuable ... and that's really sad ... 2 of those helped a scene in Germany come alive (along with film, theater and other arts) and Ange, had its inspiration in Jacques Brel and a slight touch of the Brecht/Weill work in their very early albums ... and for both of these it is an ARTISTIC connection ... not a rock'n'roll connection as is the case with some of the works listed. But yes, I do love everyone of those albums ... just sad, again, that the rest of the world does not exist! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: May 27 2020 at 09:44
Keep in mind the list is derived from the reviewers numerical rating and the volume of reviews, its not a voted on list, which would = PA WWIII, IV and V  -------------
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Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: May 27 2020 at 10:15
Yeah... I meant raters of course.
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Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: May 27 2020 at 13:24
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Lost a big response post. Anyway, my favorites from the era. Some crossover with the PA list. Funny that this section has the fewest replies. I guess a lot of people have the opinion that this era is all a forgone conclusion. 1. Yes - Yessongs 2. Jethro Tull - A Passion Play 3. Steve Hackett - Voyage of the Acolyte 4. Island - Pictures 5. UK - UK 6. Frank Zappa - Roxy and Elsewhere 7. Genesis – Selling England by the Pound 8. King Crimson - Red 9. Banco del Mutuo Soccorso – Io sono nato libero 10. Magma - Live Hhai 11. Supertramp - Crime of the Centrury 12. Return to Forever - Romantic Warrior 13. Alphataurus - Alphataurus 14. Emerson, Lake and Palmer - Emerson, Lake and Palmer 15. Banco del Mutuo Soccorso - ...di Terra 16. Supersister - Present from Nancy 17. Magma - Kohntarkosz 18. Franco Battiato - Fetus 19. Gnidrolog - In Spite of Harry's Toenail 20. Jethro Tull - Stand Up 21. King Crimson - Starless and Bible Black 22. The Moody Blues - In Search of the Lost Chord 23. Mahavishnu Orchestra - Birds of Fire 24. Genesis - Seconds Out 25. Premiata Forneria Marconi (PFM) – Storia di un minuto 26. Klaus Schultz - Mirage 27. Rush - A Farewell to Kings 28. Frank Zappa - We're Only in it for the Money 29. Shadowfax - Watercourse Way 30. Tangerine Dream - Stratosphere Also, had I chose to incorporate proto and related albums I would have considered the following: Black Sabbath - Sabbath, Bloody Sabbath (near the top) Jimi Hendrix - Are You Experienced? (Top half) The Who - Tommy (second 10) Deep Purple - Shades of... (middling) Queen - II (25-30) ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: May 27 2020 at 13:53
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Actually, come to think of it since "kind of blue" is on here it should say "50's, 60's and 70's."
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 27 2020 at 16:13
Hi, Nice listing ... only 3 duplicates and shows a lot more artists and appreciation for music ... which was in many other places. Well done! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: May 27 2020 at 16:56
1)What do you think of this list? How does it compare to your own list of Prog's first two decades? JUST FIVE ARE IN MY LIST 1) From H to He Who Am The Only One - Van Der Graaf Generator 2) Pawn Hearts - Van Der Graaf Generator 3) Rock Bottom - Robert Wyatt 4) The Least We Can Do Is Wave To Each Other - Van Der Graaf Generator 5) Arbeit Macht Frei - Area 6) Silent Corner and The Empty Stage - Peter Hammill 7) In The Court Of... - King Crimson 8) Starsailor - Tim Buckley 9) Wish You Were Here - Pink Floyd 10) Red - King Crimson 11) Chameleon In The Shadow Of The Night - Peter Hammill 12) Music In A Doll's House - Family 13) Atom Heart Mother - Pink Floyd 14) Roxy Music - Roxy Music 15) First Utterance - Comus 16) Gentle Giant - Gentle Giant 17) Lorca - Tim Buckley 18) Storia di un Minuto - PFM 19) Maledetti - Area 20) Islands - King Crimson I dont know if Banco - Darwin, Genesis - The Lamb, Harmonium, Jethro Tull - Aqualung could enter in my top 30. 2) Are these the greatest musical contributions progressive rock music has ever made? Has time diminished their lustre and genius? In my opinion, Camel and Rush never made a true masterpiece. Close to the Edge and Relayer are small masterpiece as well as Foxtrot and Dark Side of the Moon and Larks Tongues and Godbluff: they can be in the top 50 but in my opinion not in the top 20. Fragile and Selling England and Animals and Per un amico and Io sono nato libero are overrated. Thick as a Brick and Meddle and Nursery Crime are not so great. Glass House is mediocre. Miles Davis is jazz, not prog. Too many albums by the same artists. Rock Bottom and Silent Corner and Arbeit Macht Frei and one album betwen From H to He and The Least, and Magma, Soft Machine, Roxy Music and Family and Henry Cow should be present in the Top 30. 3)Are modern musical artists just w**kers in comparison? Modern artists they are technically better prepared, they can afford pharaonic productions with which to publish very sophisticated fusion music ... but they do not have the same inspiration and creativity as the albums of the sixties and seventies, which were seminal. ------------- "Happiness is real only when shared" |
Posted By: The Anders
Date Posted: May 27 2020 at 17:31
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It doesn't reflect my preferences that much to be honest. F.e. I prefer The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway to Selling England By the Pound or Foxtrot, Aqualung to Thick as a Brick, The Dark Side of the Moon to Wish You Were Here, early Mothers to Zappa's 70's output and so on (I know Hot Rats is from 1969). Also, I miss several albums by f.e David Bowie, Brian Eno, Kraftwerk, Can, Faust, Talking Heads and Roxy Music. Personal album favourites like Tubular Bells, A Salty Dog and Days of Future Passed are also missing.
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Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: May 27 2020 at 20:56
Thanks. I think very few users would have a list that matches the PA list based on weighted averages. Its just that once that top layer of the most widely distributed artists (the big 5 if you will) is passed, the level of familiarity drops off rather precipitously. I honestly don't see many of the artists on my list competing in any obscurity contests, but they are just never going to attain the exposure of that handful of major prog artist. In light of your focus on keeping the list in a one album per artist I decided to generate the same PA top 30 with that criteria in mind. Also, kept the included years starting at 1960 so there is no fudging to include Kind of Blue 1. Yes – Close to the Edge 2. Genesis – Selling England by the Pound 3. Pink Floyd – Wish You Were Here 4. King Crimson – In the Court of the Crimson King 5. Jethro Tull – Thick as a Brick 6. Van Der Graaf Generator - Godbluff 7. Camel - Mirage 8. Premiata Forneria Marconi (PFM) – Per un amico 9. Rush – Hemispheres 10. Banco del Mutuo Soccorso - Darwin! 11. Gentle Giant - In a Glass House 12. Harmonium – Si on avait besoin d’une cinquième saison 13. Frank Zappa – Hot Rats 14. Mahavishnu Orchestra - Birds Of Fire 15. Supertramp - Crime Of The Century 16. Renaissance -Scheherazade And Other Stories 17. Mike Oldfield - Ommadawn 18. Museo Rosenbach - Zarathustra 19. Peter Hammill - The Silent Corner And The Empty Stage 20. Magma - Mekanïk Destruktïw Kommandöh 21. Robert Wyatt - Rock Bottom 22. Emerson Lake & Palmer - Emerson Lake & Palmer 23. Steve Hackett - Voyage Of The Acolyte 24. Hatfield And The North - Hatfield And The North 25. Miles Davis - In A Silent Way 26. Return To Forever - Romantic Warrior 27. Khan - Space Shanty 28. Gong - Radio Gnome Invisible Vol. 3 - You 29. Tangerine Dream - Rubycon 30. Area - Arbeit Macht Frei Very interesting how that spices the list up. Now there is a heck of a lot more albums that match my list. Canterbury bands really get represented. And some of these that turn out to be the highest rated of each particular band are surprising. And there's that pesky old Miles Davis making an appearance to keep everyone's dander up. Fun exercise. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow"> https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: May 28 2020 at 00:13
| Agree, keep it to one album per artist and exclude live albums, that way you include more artists on the list. Above is fine. |
Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: May 28 2020 at 00:17
Your preference is as valid as anyone else's. There is no definitive list.
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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: May 28 2020 at 08:36
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A solid list...........,I don't know about several of the RPI things...never warmed up to it ,and Kind Of Blue is simply not prog rock, and as Richard said sneak in the ELP debut. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: May 29 2020 at 01:56
I actually love Danger Money . 3 piece format and Bozzio does the powerhouse drummer thing as well as anyone. However the debut though is more 'progressive' as it blends fusion and symphonic. I checked and its only the 6th ranked 1978 album which is a little strange. Perhaps it's just too eclectic musically for many conservative music tastes. I also suspect it failed to reach it's target audience which was too hung up on ELP, Yes and Genesis, even in 1978 when things were changing rapidly.
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Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: May 29 2020 at 09:55
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Miles Davis is not Prog!!! ------------- The Prog Corner |
Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: May 29 2020 at 11:09
Aye....seconded...neither is fecking talking heads... ------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again....... |
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: May 29 2020 at 12:28
"Thirded." Neither are The Police.
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Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: May 29 2020 at 12:50
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Still, at least IMO, the list makes as much sense as the ratings on Metacritic. It's pointless. The thing about reading reviews is to have some context. Like, what kinda music the reviewer likes, their style of rating etc. If you throw all that away and leave just the collective numebrs, there's just that. A meaningless number. ------------- Bez pierdolenia sygnał zerwie, to w realia wychodź w hełmie! |
Posted By: geekfreak
Date Posted: May 29 2020 at 23:03
Solid list I would add ELP debut and VDGG Pawn Hearts ------------- Friedrich Nietzsche: "Without music, life would be a mistake." Music Is Live Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed. Keep Calm And Listen To The Music… < |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: May 30 2020 at 03:15
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^ 13. Van Der Graaf Generator – Pawn Hearts |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 30 2020 at 03:51
Hi, It is "Prog" in the sense that its creativity is quite out there, and not stuck on a beat or form. However, it ain't "Prog" just because it doesn't have the RW organ, or ELP keyboards, or a CS bass? C'mon ... "Prog" is about newer music and its inventive flow ... and Miles deserves to be mentioned, however it needs to be placed within a "jazz" context, not a rock music context. But cold day in heck that jazz will even consider a term like "Progressive" or "Prog". Creativity is left handed, right handed, upper handed and under handed ... and us simply saying that only a left handed counts, in the end, we are ... can't even put words on it, but after a while it's hard to feel that this is about "creativity", instead of a cookie cutter format of some kind ... at least, Miles did not exactly have a format for us to follow ... and many of us wish that more rock music did that and was not afraid of nit-pickers that only like melody and hate the rest of music!
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: May 30 2020 at 04:12
Er...OK EVERY BAND who ever performed is prog....scrap this site immediately.... ------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again....... |
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: May 30 2020 at 20:08
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Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Miles Davis--in all his dozen or so incarnations. But, so long as PA refuses to exclude Miles's pre-In a Silent Way albums from its database (whatever happened to Max's "JazzArchives" site?) I will continue to include his albums as posted just to pour salt on the wound!
------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: May 30 2020 at 20:11
I LOVE your perspective, Ian! Very refreshing and exciting! Perhaps this is the way to go! ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: May 30 2020 at 22:38
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^Honestly, Moshkito was the catalyst for keeping it to one album per band. I just ran the report and kicked out all the repeats. It is definitely nice to see some of the 2nd tier bands. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow"> https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: May 30 2020 at 22:48
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Already somebodies mentioned all the Kraut-albums missing on the list, but not also any Canterbury classics and really no Magma, Procol, Moodies, Traffic or Family-albums! Instead too many Italian prog albums to my personal opinion, I just haven´t ever understand what´s so great in Italian prog.
My list: 1. Wigwam: Fairyport 2. Pink Floyd: Atom Heart Mother 3. King Crimson: Court 4. Jethro Tull: Thick as A Brick 5. Family: Music In a Doll´s House 6. Traffic: Mr. Fantasy 7. Magma: s/t 8. Faust: Faust IV 9. Comus: First Utterance 10. Can: Tago-Mago 11. Caravan: s/t 12. Yes: Fragile 13. Genesis: the Lamb Lies Down On Broadway 14. Procol Harum: Shine On Brightly 15. the Moody Blues: In Search Of Lost Chord 16. Tasavallan Presidentti: Lambert Land 17. Haikara: Geafar 18. Kevin Ayers: Whatevershebringswesing 19. Roy Harper: Lifemask 20. The Mother Of Invention: We´re Only In It For the Money 21. Van Der Graaf Generator: Pawn Hearts 22. Colosseum: Valentyne Suite 23. Amon Düül II: Tanz Der Lemminge 24. Soft Machine: Volume Two 25. Arco Iris: Agitor Lucens V 26. Rush: Hemispheres 27. Harmonium: Si On Avait... 28. Samla Mammas Manna: Måltid 29. Kalevala: People No Names 30. Los Jaivas: Cancion Del Sur And these all are masterpieces to me!
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: May 31 2020 at 03:18
^ PFM really , and then its the first 3 or 4 albums only after that it's a lot of keyboard/symphonic prog really that is good but not as good as ELP , Rick Wakeman, Trace and a good few others in my opinion although a lot of it is decent neverthless. If you want ELP without the bombast then there is a lot of good stuff. Bold list although Pawn Hearts is probably the only one that would make my list whether sticking to one album per artist rule or not. Btw have you heard the Aphrodite's Child album 666? I do feel that album is too often overlooked and for the life of my I'll never understand why. |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: May 31 2020 at 06:21
I think there is just so much overlooking of the sixties-seventies great music these days, people just like to listen their few Zeppelin albums over & over again.
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 31 2020 at 06:28
Hi, It has nothing to do with the website, unless you feel that it is the site's fault that you and I are here, which it isn't! The only concern, and it just shows where you stand, is that your definition of "prog" and "progressive" is more about your favorites than it is about a reality in the music ... so go ahead and call yourself "progressive" ... I have 47 years of pushing this music with me, and you can't say anything about my trip ... except that you don't believe it because it is not showing the RW keyboards, the CS bass, or the bullmerde drums on it, simply because it is in the "definition" that those must be there. For your information music has been in a "progressive" mode for at least 500 years ... but your knowledge is limited to a couple of days in that equation.  ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 31 2020 at 06:31
Hi, As do I, however, if you go back to the start of the thread I was the one that asked for 30 bands, not albums. AND THANK YOU TAP ... I'm not one for these kinds of lists as there are too many things I love dearly that won't make it to the list ... and I find it best to respect the music, by not suggesting that one thing is better than another! They are all great ... and I like the idea of giving other artists a lot more respect that they deserve and are not getting in a kid's like poll!
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 31 2020 at 06:43
Hi, To my ears, a lot of "Italian" prog has its roots in classical music, if we are to look at some of the compositions as a composition, and not a rock song in three or four parts only. And a lot of these bands did bits and pieces of classical music here and there, to show for it, and I think this was a big finger in the sky to the elder statesmen that would not hire these kids to an orchestra or did anything more original than another revival of a Verdi or Puccini opera ... sort of like NY redoing yet another revival of the poopiest musical you can think of -- and then even try to insult your intelligence by inserting a famous pop star to get more tickets sold ... and of course, it crashed ... fast! BANCO, for example, without mentioning the words, in composition style is extremely classical, and NOT given to just doing a rock song for the radio ... this was about what they saw, not anything else, and even though many of us loved Giacomo and his wonderful operatic voice, guess what ... it was not only Giacomo ... Vittorio's version of the band in their last album is magnificent ... but won't get any kind of an ear here, because people have to have the RW keyboards, the KE pyrotechnics, the CS bass, and the poorest drumming this side of BB. The things from Italy that try to copy the "standard" modes of music, usually do not go very far, which tells you that there is a solid appreciation for original music over there ... not a copy of the original hits with the same keyboards and bass ... reminds me of the opening to "The World Became The World" album ... when they ripped it to the max ... that would have been their sort of tip of the hat to the big 5, and then over and out ... their music and first albums were magnificent and deserved the accolades it got ... however just calling it "progressive" this and that ... takes away the most important factor of enjoying music, specially in this case ... it is totally outstanding material and beautifully written and the proof is that 45 years later we are still playing it! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 31 2020 at 06:55
Hi, It is a nice list, but I think part of the problem with it is exactly what you mention ... "not as good as..." which tends to suggest that no one can create music like those folks did ... of course not ... but the instruments are pretty much the same the world over, so some sounds will also appear elsewhere! This is the main reason why I do not compare anyone to RW of KE, or any other keyboard player out there ... it doesn't say anything about the creativity that some of these other folks put together! AC ... my sisters had been in Europe in 1968 and such, and they brought home the two AC albums, and I had already heard and knew well (even before the 666 album ... which sent me after all the Irene Pappas films I could find!!!) way before I got into the music that became known as "progressive" ... around 1972 and a half or so ... when in one day, I ended up hearing over 10 bands (mostly on the Harvest label, btw) and a year later the same label had stuff out from Europe just as good and great! So for me, I had already seen the Beatles and Rolling Stones fame thing, and I didn't like it ... it was like they could do anything they wanted and everyone would think it was great ... and some of it wasn't, specially the RS. And when a couple of band hit it big in America ... gads ... I already had YES's first 2 albums, I already had The Nice's albums ... and the new things ... were just that ... the new things! To me, it was a natural progression for those artists ... not some sort of seminal artistic this and that ... because I could not compare a lot of this music to 40K books and history of Portuguese, Brazilian and Spanish Literature ... and its' like saying that only Don Quixote is worth it, and the rest is just merde ... and it is not true at all, and all one is saying is ... they don't know anything about the rest! And I, don't like to use that parallel with folks here, because they have a lot of knowledge in a lot of music, that even you and I don't. But the cookie cutter thing, really hurts what "progressive music" is meant to be, specially for us elders ... we should not be saying ... sounds like ... ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: The Anders
Date Posted: May 31 2020 at 08:02
But there are not nearly as many Italian prog albums as there are British albums. I counted: 21 British albums (out of which 15 make the entire top 15) 4 Italian albums 3 Canadian albums 2 US albums
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: May 31 2020 at 12:55
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First of all: There have been so many great albums over the years that having more than one from a certain artist can be called nothing but fan-boyism/girlism In no specific order, and I will include the Big Six though they are by no means my Big Six: Can - Tago Mago Tangerine Dream - Rubycon Van der Graaf Generator - Pawn Hearts Mother Gong - Fairy Tales Gong - You Hawkwind - Warrior on the Edge of Time Amon Düül II - Tanz der Lemminge Embryo - Rocksession Nektar - Recycled King Crimson - Lizard Magma - Mëkanïk Dëstruktïẁ Kömmandöh Emerson, Lake & Palmer - Trilogy Genesis - The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway * Yes - Relayer Jethro Tull - Thick as a Bridge Gentle Giant - Octopus Pink Floyd - Meddle Peter Hammill - The Fall of the House of Usher (1999 version) Henry Cow - Western Culture Gryphon - Red Queen to Gryphon Three * If the private version of Jean and me of Nursery Cryme including the tracks "Happy the Man" and Twilight Alehouse" as track 8 and 9 would count this would replace "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway". This list could change at any time, but some albums would always stay on it. And most of the so-called Big Six would usually not appear on my list at all. -------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: May 31 2020 at 15:04
This kind of remark pops up about lists again and again. If you want to make a list that has every artist just once you are free to do that, and I see why one wants to do that. But if I just want to list the best albums without any side conditions or any eye on recommending more artists to anyone or whatever consideration that is different from "what are the best albums"... there is no reason not to have two by the same artist, if you just think they're that good. I won't have anyone make me feel bad about doing such a thing on a best albums list. (And yes, I do think Art Zoyd have three in the best 30 of the 2000s!)
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: May 31 2020 at 15:45
Since there are in my opinion so many albums that I consider to be on par and as good as they come (I could pick about 200 that I would consider to be worthy of the top spot) I see absolutely no reason to list an artist twice. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: May 31 2020 at 16:07
Drew's list is strictly the PA weighted rankings for the decades in question, not his or anyone else's personal rankings. And like I said, so much of how these rankings fall into place has to do with exposure. Magic Power Mako's Magical Power or Images' self-titled release, or even the next teir up, Pulsar's Halloween are never going to make the list over the 3rd or 4th ranked album from the big 5 because they just don't have the exposure, no matter how good they are. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow"> https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: May 31 2020 at 16:15
Yes, but he explicitly asked for personal rankings in the original post. Exposure definitely has to do with it. Everyone knows "Close to the Edge" by Yes. Hardly anyone knows "Fairy Tales" by Mother Gong. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: May 31 2020 at 16:42
I'm not criticising your list, but sl*g.ing off everyone who does it differently in a side remark wasn't exactly necessary.
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: June 01 2020 at 07:14
Hi, Thank you. I know for sure I was not the only one to say it! And that it does not belong with "progressive music" or "prog"! BTW, excellent list and probably closer to mine if I were to make one ...
And worse ... many of these folks will make harsh comments and will never bother to listen to it ... same thing for the Robot Woman album ... because it hits them where it hurts?
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: June 01 2020 at 07:20
Hi, Tap .... and PA could use its many admins and honored folks to help that ... but when many of these folks spend their time posting in fanboy threads, and then not respecting folks that think differently ... it makes it impossible to be fair about all the music out there! The criticism about the "differences" ... is really harsh ... and gets worse when the attitude starts justifying a popcorn and candy poll ... with duplicates. Please, all I ask is ... where do you stand in terms of "progressive music"? ... with all of it, or just the favorite top of the morning yawn? ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: June 02 2020 at 00:39
Going back to the Italian Prog thing , I am pretty ignorant about these bands although I enjoy the more popular ones PFM , Le Orme and Banco of course. In general I will always tend to gravitate towards symphonic keyboard based prog . If I only one piece of music from prog as a genre that I was allowed to listen to then it would be ELP- Tarkus. Music needs to be inspired for me and it can be pretentious and bombastic. This is the real nub of why so many don't like ELP imo but that is fine. Rick Wakeman was also (like Emerson) too much of a character to just dryly compose 'nice' music. Was there ever a more 'classically trained' keyboard player than him yet he also had a personality and that is important to me at least as it comes across in the music. Personality is something that is too often sorely missing. The pioneers did it. Those that came later copied to some extent but made nice listenable records. However to my ears, PFM early albums summed up everything beautifully and ELP noticed! |
Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: June 02 2020 at 05:51
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^ Wakeman has produced some complete sh*te...especially his god bothering stuff..ELP produced a lot of godawful stuff after works vol 1...I do know that you place a lot of vañue on the perceived flow of an album....but I still don't see any value in Genesis after 1977 when Hackett left..nor Rush after MP...Do you prefer these to say Flowerpower or Stardust we are by the Flower kings? I think that may be where our musical tastes diverge.... ------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again....... |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: June 02 2020 at 06:35
Hi, I don't like to say bad things about keyboard players ... to me, is the keyboard integrated into the completeness of the music, or is it flying on its own ... and it gets really easy to see which ones are just solo'ing and which ones are playing with the group. I don't think, for example, that many of us would say that Rich Wright did a bunch of solos, since so much of it is an important part of the song/piece itself, and that is what I mean ... the same for the AD2 keyboard player in the early days ... you never heard anything that sounded like a solo ... and that means it was all about the completeness of the music ... and to me, just like classical music, we don't sit here (or anywhere else) and say that the violin was not needed, and those strings were a waste and whatever other silly comment. RW is a very good "technician", and he knows his keyboards really well ... no doubt there. But to my ears he is playing the same bits and pieces on a different machine with a different sound ... just a couple of note changes and this little solo over there, then we move over here kind of thing, and for this reason, I never really found RW's solo albums that great ... I would like to see less "solo" bits and pieces and more music and specially a cohesiveness of sound with each bit and piece fitting the total music, not standing out as just a solo! It's a personal taste I guess, but when you compare KE, in their early days, I never felt that TARKUS or THE ENDLESS ENIGMA ... were all solo ... it was beautifully designed into the completeness of the piece of music, and then when you hear Rachel Flower do this on piano, you know right away, how great the composition itself was ... a shame that academia can not appreciate that greatness! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: June 03 2020 at 02:19
This is interesting I do think that Keith was more constrained by the demands of ELP and especially the sizeable ego of Greg Lake! Rick W did fly a bit more because he was able to do what he wanted on his solo albums which probably sold as much as ELP at the time. That said Judas Iscariot is an absolutely stunning piece from a compositional point of view that Wakeman should be very proud of (Criminal Record only spoilt by the dreaded 'fun track' The Breathalyser) . Both Emerson and Wakeman were very capable composers but the rock star antics and every increasing keyboard stacks were something of a distraction I suspect in terms of how they were viewed (and still are). Rick Wright on the other hand is a completely different animal and was content to add atmosphere and blend the keyboards a bit more into the music. He was a very quiet man and like Jon Lord decided that the 'rock star' thing was not for him. I believe with keyboards , you have to consider the personality of the guy and not just technical skill. Who wants to blend into the background and who wants to be at the front of the stage.
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Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: June 03 2020 at 09:27
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^ Wright did some nice VCS3 work on SOYCD...but I reckon king of the laid back style was Badens...and he also had the chops with his synth and organ solos...and Greenslade and Lawson were both superior keys men...DG is always overlooked despite the brilliant hammond solo in drum folk. Which is best ever in terms of feel..IMHO ------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again....... |