Proto prog metal songs (pre 1980)
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=123318
Printed Date: August 02 2025 at 19:40
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Topic: Proto prog metal songs (pre 1980)
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Subject: Proto prog metal songs (pre 1980)
Date Posted: June 24 2020 at 15:57
| I was tempted to add "The Nile Song" by Pink Floyd but I really don't hear any prog in it. Also, if you choose other please choose a song before 1980. I will allow multiple votes but please no more than three votes. |
Replies:
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: June 24 2020 at 16:22
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Megalomania, Minstrel in the Gallery, One of These Days and Achilles Last Stand. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: June 24 2020 at 16:44
| 2112 |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: June 24 2020 at 16:47
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All of King Crimson's offerings, The Knife, and One of these Days. Will vote for Red on the mood of the day. |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: June 24 2020 at 17:03
That's four. Are you deliberately trying to be rebellious?
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The Dark Elf wrote:Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: June 24 2020 at 17:05
Another rebel. Do you guys not know how to count or not know how to follow instructions?
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Posted By: DarkTower
Date Posted: June 24 2020 at 17:42
| Achilles Last Stand. Great song from a great band. |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: June 24 2020 at 19:19
Ummm...you allowed multiple votes. If you wanted us to pick one, you should've not chosen the multi-vote option. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: June 24 2020 at 19:22
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Nothing on this list pumps me up quite as much as Minstrel in the Gallery, although most of them pump me up quite well. ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: June 24 2020 at 19:23
Dude, I specifically said no more than three. Pay attention.
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Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: June 24 2020 at 22:00
| Nothing wrong with any of them. They'll all great. |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: June 24 2020 at 23:17
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"Dancing Madly Backwards" by Captain Beyond! RIP Rhino Reinhardt and Lee Dorman! ------------- I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!! |
Posted By: judahbenkenobi
Date Posted: June 24 2020 at 23:48
| Led Zeppelin. Some of the others are heavy Prog to me. Others are simply metal, and a few I've never heard them |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: June 25 2020 at 00:20
| The Knife easily despite their being so many great tracks listed. |
Posted By: Rick1
Date Posted: June 25 2020 at 01:08
| 'Excerpt from The Messiah' - Slapp Happy/Henry Cow |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: June 25 2020 at 01:29
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JT ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: thief
Date Posted: June 25 2020 at 03:16
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I vote for Sabbath this time. Some bands worth mentioning, maybe: Blue Cheer, Budgie, Buffalo, High Tide, Sir Lord Baltimore. Maybe Black Widow and Coven as curiosity.
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Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: June 25 2020 at 03:34
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LTIA 1 all the way - and though it's not an option here - even more so LTIA 2. ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: June 25 2020 at 04:12
You said "no more than three" and I gave one. What's so rebellious about that?
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Posted By: Cactus Choir
Date Posted: June 25 2020 at 05:29
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Minstrel in the Gallery, a fine bit of Elizabethan boogie. ------------- "And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!" "He's up the pub" |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: June 25 2020 at 08:56
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Red.....but as said, many good tracks there. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: June 25 2020 at 09:01
You listed five(three KC, the knife and One of these days)so I thought that meant you voted for all of them.
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Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: June 25 2020 at 13:59
| A lot of great song here, Red, Larks' tongues, Circle of Hands, and Minstrel in the Gallery are my favorites. |
Posted By: Sacro_Porgo
Date Posted: June 25 2020 at 15:35
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Rush 2112 and Cygnus X-1 Although maybe they're so far as to lose the photo prefix. ------------- Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :) |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: June 25 2020 at 15:37
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I don't know what to choose. |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: June 25 2020 at 15:38
I'm leaving it open for a few more hours to choose up to three so for a little while longer at least you don't have to pick just one.
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: June 25 2020 at 15:42
11:39 where I live I've read your options, I do not now what to choose. I could be a wise guy and point out some prog-ish hard rock/heavy metal artist but damn if I know... So I don't know... for now...
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: June 25 2020 at 15:44
| ^ Well, you can always choose other and tell us what it was. |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: June 25 2020 at 15:46
YAAAAY! I could do that! May I have a bit of time?
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Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: June 25 2020 at 15:51
| Well if the poll is still open... Kansas Child of Innocence or Miracles out of Nowhere. |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: June 25 2020 at 16:50
Of course.
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: June 25 2020 at 17:14
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I am voting for these three: Gentle Giant - The House, the Street, the Room King Crimson - Red Pink Floyd - One of these Days But I want to mention "other" because I love this so much: EDIT: Oh, I assumed that multiple votes was enabled. ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: June 25 2020 at 17:24
| There are many great songs here, I guess I'll have to go with Achilles Last Stand. Kashmir from Zep, and Stargazer from Rainbow may have been good options to include too. |
Posted By: Olape
Date Posted: June 25 2020 at 18:22
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Gentle Giant - The House, the Street, the Room ------------- 
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Posted By: Progmind
Date Posted: June 25 2020 at 22:03
Logan you are the Man!!!! what a great record, a piece of genious
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Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: June 26 2020 at 03:59
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The Knife! ------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again....... |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: June 26 2020 at 14:47
It's an awesome album, at least certainly it is for me, and I don't use "awesome", or "certainly", or "at least", or "me", or "It's" lightly. ;) From looking at the reviews and ratings in PA, opinion is divided. Some might not like certain repetitive riff qualities in it. I love the groove. The album got under my skin from first listen, and it is one of those albums that I can listen to again and again multiple times in a row, and I have done so. I don't want it to end. For those who may be interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSe6V7KkMyo" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSe6V7KkMyo It is one of those albums that has rather surprised me that it doesn't get more recognition. Maybe I'll write a review of it. ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: Braka1
Date Posted: June 27 2020 at 02:02
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I actually voted for 'Circle of Hands'. Shortly after I got into Demons and Wizards in the late 70's, Uriah Heep became one of those bands that it was almost criminally uncool to like. They were almost the poster band for uncool. Much later when it was no longer illegal, I was delighted to find that Bob Drake really liked this album too, which he proved by playing/singing half the songs to me one day. Anyhow about 18 months ago this CD ended up in my car and 'Circle of Hands' became one of my favourite driving songs - though it was somewhat hazardous, as I'd nearly drive off the road playing air-keyboard along to Ken Hensley's ridiculously grandiose piano in the final part. ------------- Believe me Pope Paul, my toes are clean |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: June 27 2020 at 02:15
| No mention of Budgie ?? Super-stiff competition, I guess. |
Posted By: friso
Date Posted: June 27 2020 at 04:59
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Other: VdGG - The Necromancer. Or: Into a Game. ------------- I'm guitarist and songwriter for the prog-related band Mother Bass. Find us at http://www.motherbass.com. I also enter stages throughout the Netherlands performing my poetry. |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: June 27 2020 at 05:58
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(apparently the guy who posted this did not know how to spell "Lunatic") -------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: June 27 2020 at 11:09
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^ Lucifer's Friend is a faourite of mine. The first VdGG song I thought of was "Darkness", mostly because it has the same sort of sinister riff qualities about it that remind me of The House, the Street, the Room and Red -- which are in the poll (I did a poll with those three tracks at one time). Still, nothing beats Message for me. ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: Mudpuppy64
Date Posted: June 27 2020 at 11:29
Awsome album
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Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: June 27 2020 at 19:51
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Pnvu7URpBBY" rel="nofollow - Link The Blinding Light Show by Triumph Especially the 5:45 mark |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 00:47
| no mention of ELP - The Barbarian? |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 01:41
If I was to mention some missing bands in the poll, it would be Rainbow, Blue Oyster Cult and Saga. 
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Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 08:15
 Those are great ones! And, how could we forget early Scorpions with Uli Jon Roth? Check out Sails of Charon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoI7deS76Ck&feature=share" rel="nofollow - Link . That solo is amazingly clean and ushered in people like Yngwie and Iron Maiden.
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 08:16
old Scorpions is great. Also UFO.
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Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 08:25
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The Beatles Helter Skelter ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWW2SzoAXMo&feature=share" rel="nofollow - Link Pre-1970s. |
Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 08:42
Lights Out by UFO https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-uFp0m2xNs&feature=share" rel="nofollow - Link !! Michael Schenker is just so great! Anyone who hasn’t heard Captain Nemo by him needs to do so right now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5C9WRxBW6o&feature=share" rel="nofollow - Link |
Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 08:56
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I almost have to put early Judas Priest in there too. Like Dreamer Deceiver https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvlq1F-X6Ko&feature=share" rel="nofollow - Link If that’s not the perfect example of an influence on people like Fates Warning and Queensryche, I don’t know what is. That’s live and Halford sounds soooooo good. |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 09:00
70s Priest is my favourite JP.
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 09:02
They can all be in your poll. I'm not familiar enough with them to include them. Saga would not qualify anyway since they were never close to metal.
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 09:03
There's nothing prog about it. It's barely even regular proto metal.
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Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 09:08
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Don’t worry. We’ll fix this list yet!
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 09:10
don't take it as a reproach, it's not. I'm just mentioning bands I think influenced progressive metal. Saga is one of them. So is Kansas.
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 09:13
I don't know why anyone would think Saga influenced prog metal.That's like saying Marillion influenced prog metal. Kansas? Maybe a little. At least more than Saga. Lol.
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Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 09:14
It’s proto metal and the Beatles and The Beach Boys were proto Prog ... ergo ... |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 09:16
Ultimately it comes down to the individual songs though. What specifically about "helter skelter" makes it "prog metal?" I personally don't hear it but if you do I would like to know what it is.
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Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 09:18
Saga was one of the early Prog bands that conducted complex synchronized guitar/guitar solos, which influenced bands like Dream Theater. Go back and listen to the Worlds Apart album. |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 09:24
I say Saga was an influence having listened to live albums, especially In Transit (1982). There is an energy, a tightness in playing that progressive metal artists tried to have or aimed to have as well. I don't think it's totally wrong to say Marillion was an influence, especially when creating atmosphere.
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 09:24
No, I'll take your word for it. I personally just don't hear any metal in their music. Then again Valen Halen are considered an influence on metal and so are Led Zeppelin, Rush and Queen and none of them are really metal either.
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 09:30
All the bands you mention there influenced metal.
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Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 09:36
Helter Skelter directly influenced bands like Led Zep who directly influenced bands like Rush is how I would approach it. That is easy to hear. It certainly has the bombast factor, and I think I detect some chromatic progression, not unlike that of songs like The Court of the Crimson King. |
Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 09:54
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Anyway, it’s a good list! I wouldn’t comment if I didn’t find it interesting.
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Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 10:25
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That’s the difficulty with this kind of topic. We’re looking for DNA in the protoplasm. Rush’s Bastille Day https://youtu.be/Kyl2a5_7wNM" rel="nofollow - Link |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 10:33
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Kansas - The Spider -------------  
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 10:38
| it's a great list, impossible to choose poll. |
Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 11:02
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The last two I would add would be In the Dead of Night by UK. That solo by Holdsworth influenced an entire generation of Prog metalheads. https://youtu.be/hMu7XUc9OcI" rel="nofollow - Link And ... Dancing with the Moonlit Knight by Genesis ... for similar reasons. And I meant to say complex synchronized guitar/keyboard solos for Saga earlier. I know that it may seem strange to list them, but I think it is accurate. |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 11:03
Thanks. I put on my big boy pants and created it all by myself.
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 11:05
Did you read somewhere that UK, that Genesis song, Kansas, Saga etc influenced prog metal bands? I'm just wondering how you know that or is it just a guess?
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Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 11:09
Reading and also some personal interactions. That’s from the guitar side. Don’t worry. I wouldn’t try to deceive you At the same time, I am not into name-dropping. |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 11:14
Did you talk to John Petrucci or someone?
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 11:15
John Petrucci is more or less ripping the the solo of In the Dead of Night in the Trial of Tears song, from Falling into Infinity.
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Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 11:29
Yes, but not him. However, you can also read about these influences in many articles in publications for guitarists. Al Dimeola and Holdsworth especially influenced the post 80s Prog Metal guitarists. There was even a kind of battle between the two schools of thought for a while. Dimeola enthusiasts favored the “every note must be picked” approach while the tappers followed the legato style of Holdsworth. Eventually, everyone shook hands and the techniques were intertwined into most guitarists’ playing. That’s why Hackett’s solo in Dancing ... is so important. He uses both tapping (legato hammer-on pull-off style) and the sweep picking of the Dimeola crowd. Of course, I’m generalizing here for the sake of brevity. |
Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 11:30
They do say that mimicry is the sincerest form of flattery. Xanadu meets In the Dead of Night. |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 11:54
You don't want to mention which guitarists(or musicians)you talked to? Are you afraid we are going to say "Hey, Jaketejas said you were influenced by Genesis." Mystery musician: No, that's not true, he's a liar!
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Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 12:00
This will be a good exercise for you. Think of it like a Prog scavenger hunt. Read the comments section of the Dream Theater song that Cristi mentioned and count the number of times Allan Holdsworth is mentioned. Then, come back here and report. |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 12:03
I'm not playing your little games. I just asked you what guitarist or musician you talked to personally that told you their influences. If you don't want to tell me then just say so.
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Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 12:15
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https://www.truthinshredding.com/2017/04/allan-holdsworth-dead-at-70-one-worlds.html?m=1" rel="nofollow - Link This link says it all. My favorite pic is the one of Ron Jarzombek and Allan Holdsworth swapping scales or something.  
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 12:19
| Again, I'm not playing games. Either tell me or don't. Please stop playing games. |
Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 12:20
It’s no game. We’re just trying to emphasize the importance of Allan Holdsworth’s contributions to Prog Metal. That’s all. |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 12:21
| ^And yet you still won't tell me the guitarist or musician you met who is influenced by Holdsworth. Unbelievable. |
Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 12:23
Sorry. I’m not into name dropping. Toying? I never did. You asked if I had chatted with someone who is a Prog metal artist before and I said yes. You asked for names and I said sorry ... no can do, but I did provide some concrete examples for you regarding the influence of the late great Allan Holdsworth, as did Cristi. Have fun and good luck with your poll. Next time it might be nice to include UK. Bye! |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 12:26
No, despite what you say, you're into unecessarily toying with people and playing games(ie scavenger hunt thing and trying to get me to look up stuff). 
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 13:07
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No one voted for this track which I can understand to a great degree. However, this live version is 17 minutes(there's also a 31 minute live version of it). |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: June 28 2020 at 13:12
I don't consider UK to be proto prog metal despite your mysterious hints they are. They might have had an influence on prog metal but I don't consider them to be proto prog metal per se. Sue me! We will have to agree to disagree as far as your tactics on here go. Regardless, I have nothing further to say to you on here. I'm done. However, if you want to get the last word in be my guest.
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