Okay. I am duly impressed. I don't know why I've never listened to Of Queues and Cures from a drumming/percussion/rhythm perspective before. (I've always been searching for the melodies.)

THANKS!

Aren't you one, too? I could swear I was just reading posts you made back in 2004, 2006 & 2010!

Alphonse Mouzon, original drummer for Weather Report.  Known mostly for his work as an original member of The Eleventh House with Larry Coryell

Bill Ward also, wonderful chops.

There are so many Ian, not necessary as defined here as progressive rock... ie.  Ginger Baker.

Oh, and an honourable mention for Ginger Baker and his Air Force too. 

 

 

 

But for more RAWK drumming, check out Barlow's amazing double kick drum footwork on "Minstrel in the Gallery" starting at 2:27:

If you are talking about that time period there was no question that everyone who was into Progressive music would not consider Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin as progressive rock.  Your analogy does not make sense.  That would mean Aynsley Dunbar is blues or Piere Moerlen who only just started at the back end of the poster's timeframe of 1967-1976 is a great based on what?  On his body of work up to 1976?  Answer would be no right?  It's his later body of work that puts him on your list.  So is Pierre Moerlen even applicable to the poster's timeframe?

I agree, where ever you place them, you can't replace their greatness or should I say uniqueness?

Don't forget the maverick genius Ginger Baker either.

Christian Burchard of Embryo. Here an example of his drumming:

Christian Vander of Magma:

Freddy Setz of Aera and Roman Bunka:

Jacky Bouladoux, drummer of Clearlight and Christian Boulé (among many others); he also jammed with Jaco Pastorius:

Barlow is one of the three best drummers Tull had, along with the late Mark Craney and Doane Perry (who got to show us what's he made of in concert).

Barlow was integral to the '70s Tull sound. I can't imagine those albums without his playing.

There's Triumvirat, and their first four albums with drummer Hans Bathelt. Their 3rd & 4th, Spartacus and Old Loves Die Hard, are their best, IMO.

If you're at all familiar with Passport, their drummer was Curt Cress. Here's Curt as bandleader.

HORACEE ARNOLD.

Horacee – drums, percussion

Jan Hammer – Moog, electric piano

Rick Laird – bass

John Abercrombie – electric guitar

David Friedman – vibes

Sonny Fortune – sax, flute 

Ralph Towner – 12-string guitar

The drummer on the first album of Passport was Udo Lindenberg, who later became very famous in Germany, but as a singer, not a drummer. He also played on the solo album of Jean-Jacques Kravetz.

Well said ... with one issue ... the poster is not a good listener to bands and players that were not "listed" as superior. And many have not given Moerlin, Neumeier, Vander, Liebezeit a good enough listen to really make their ideal about "prog drummers" ... and to not consider most in your list as a part of it ... just tells you what the listener ever gave his attention to!

This is, for me, the saddest part of a lot of these posts!

Guldbamsen wrote:   ... A weird analogy: I think The Doors was one of the most progressive bands of the late 60s..and they certainly played rock from time to time, but I don’t think of them as a prog band either. I guess it’s just a matter of stickers in the end ...

I'm not sure that their music can stand a "progressive" or "prog" written by someone that is not interested and has not appreciated (what I call) "cinematic music" ... complete with lyrics, instead of insipid music with banal lyrics telling them what it is supposed to be about!

Guldbamsen wrote:   ... Btw Moon the loon, Bonzo and Paice are some of my absolute favorite drummers. I miss that kind of ‘feel’ in most of modern music.

Not sure I would include Paice with the others, but he's fine for me. And, yes ... it is the FEEL that is missing, and the small and better "accents" to help the music be better designed and played ... for that matter, I would DEFINITELY include Carl Palmer here as well.

Michael Giles work on first two King Crimson albums

Andy McCulloch for his work on King Crimson "Lizard" (his Greenslade work was nice too)

Robert Wyatt for his work on Soft Machine "4" especialy his imaginative cymbals only fest lasting for a few minutes :)

John Densmore for his ability to illustarate (in rather theatrical way) Jim's poetry on the spot

Some favourite drummers, any genre:

Ringo Starr

Keith Moon

Ian Paice

Alex Riel (The Savage Rose, Sebastian's band, and lots of jazz)

John Densmore

Jaki Liebezeit

Maureen Tucker (The Velvet Underground)

Topper Headon (The Clash)

Tony Allen

Bo Thrige Andersen (Burnin' Red Ivanhoe)

Helen Wiggin (The Shaggs) (!)

totally agree

John Densmore is a very underrated drummer. He has a jazz background, and you can clearly hear it in many songs of The Doors.

Moon is a bit of an oddity, I've never been able to answer the question about whether he's a good drummer or not. He's all over the place yet somehow it all works and you can't imagine those Who albums without him.

It's his live performances that got me convinced that he has to be a mad genius.  I particularly love watching the 1970 Isle of Wight Concert.  

Moon often used very unusual ways of holding the drumsticks.

I support this message.

(think he really contributes/d significantly to the sonic landscape of VDGG)

I see you just joined. Welcome to the forum!

Hi,

I always thought that his introduction to the band, for a tryout was special ... and really ... it said it all! He, supposedly walked up to the drum set, threw the pieces everywhere in the room and then said (something like)  ... I'm done! Any questions?

Right then, you could easily say that the normal standard and style for drums was not going to be done or used ... unlike today, that most drummers only know how to hit a snare drum since they don't know how to use the rest of the stuff ... I remember that one guy from DT ... he had so many drums he never used that it was pathetic ... 

And Moonie became known for throwing his drums around and destroying them in concert ... with one ... slight detail ... Legs Larry Smith of the BONZO DOG BAND had already been doing that for some time ... and it was a highlight of their show! And the BBB opened for The Who a lot of times!

Hi,

Kinda easy ... but you have to have some patience.

You listen to the "Bel Air" (Future Days) and then "Chain Reaction" and "Quantum Physics" (Soon Over Babaluma) and you MUST stay on it and pay attention to the drumming a bit. How he slows down, and brings just a slight touch in the middle and then slowly brings things back up ... it is one thing that most drummers are not capable of doing ... not working on the "beat" with a snare drum, and instead just doing a very slight touch here and there and helping carry the flow of the music.

In many ways, his drumming is different, although in the earlier days of Ege Bamyasi the funk stuff is really difficult to address, from a drumming perspective, but it was tight, and he augmented Damo really well, and allowed him space as well. That is NOT what most drummers do, in most rock bands when they continue their usual 4/4 beat with the snare drum ... and they do not know when to allow for the sensitivity of the singer, or another instrument to shine, in other words, then the beat keeping drumming is not necessary.

Prog drummers are a tough discussion all around ... because the really good ones are not always appreciated as much as they should ... folks like Peter Leopold/Danny Fichelscher for example, were not just pounders on the drums either ... listen to "The Marilyn Monroe" thing (Dance of the Lemmings) and you find that the drumming is not tied to a beat or anything ... it is tied to a specific feeling about what is happening in the music itself, and the accents and moments are exciting and far out ... a total freedom that is not found in 90% of all the bands out there ... 

The only issue I have with some of these drummers is that too many of them are simple metronomic counters and nothing else ... and the best music is NOT tied down to a beat ... the best music flies and changes and changes and changes, and its beat ends up somewhere else so the music is colored in a very special way.

We're so stuck on a commercial sounding metronomic style that we think some of those drummers are good, and for all intents and purposes, you don't need them ... a drum machine will suffice, thank you!

Is Terry Bozzio "classic" enough? Two Zappa pieces:

or

BrufordFreak wrote: Please help educate me as to why Jaki Liebezeit is such a marvel. I do not hear it. (In fact, I hear nothing worthy of superlatives in anything by Can. Is it our differing cultural heritages? Our different conditioning?)

Best piece of drumming ever. And this together with a rhythm machine.

Jaki explains himself:

NEIL PERT!

2112 came out in 1976!

CHRISTIAN VANDER!

Gianchi Stringa on YS from Il Baletto di Bronzo also deserves kudos

The part that scares me, is that we end up thinking that Pierre Moerlin, or Moonie, or Bonzo, did not have the "accuracy", which to me suggests that "accuracy" is an idea that has little to do with the actual life of the music ... it is being used strictly to setup a solo or sustain other musicians that otherwise would be uncomfortable with a drummer that was more "educated" and "smarter" than simply maintaining a beat.

richardh wrote: ... There are very few modern drummers that have the chops of a Carl Palmer or Neil Peart so they will be limited. ...

Those two did not have "chops" ... they did not need them, because what they did was to accentuate the music which made it different from everyone else's.

Carl was specially adept at making sure that the poetic way that Greg sang things were accentuated better so to make the lyrics more valuable and important, which made Greg sound a lot better than conventional singers. You KNEW what the lyrics meant and you UNDERSTOOD what it was all about because it was colored properly, and not with just a run of the mill stupid snare drum beat that never changes in so many bands, even when the music is different! That's all you need to really know ... how someone that appreciates lyrics adds to the whole thing, not just keeping a beat. Bonzo, more than likely, also made room for Robert's singing, and added to it!

Both Carl and Neil were not worried about their buddies missing a beat at all ... and they knew how to continue and adjust if they had to which is what a good "drummer" will do, instead of the hackers that simply continue their snare beat to make sure everyone is on the dime! 

As an example, Mani (Guru Guru) used to say that he never played drums to the bass ... he was always along with the guitar, and it really showed in the early days a lot more than later.

This is the part of "music" that is not appreciated in conventional/commercial sounding groups and their "fans", because it really is not about the music!

richardh wrote: ...  (btw there are 3 drummers on that album inc Pat Mastelotto and Darby Todd)

The only thing that I thought was a bit "less" in the KC grouping of 3 drummers, believe or not, was the use of Gavin as the 3rd, and while he is a very strong metronomic drummer that has a very good sense of timing, almost all of the special touches and moments were not done by him in almost all the pieces, and left the rest of the pounding to him. I imagine that RF likes him, because he is very steady and not flaky in some cases, or maybe wanting to do different things on different nights as Bill Bruford apparently did.

Bill, btw, was not that great in the early days of YES. He became way better when he sided with KC because all of a sudden he could create moments that added to the whole thing, and this helped make the band special during his time. 

I feel as usual that you are actually arguing with yourself. Moon was an incredibly accurate drummer when he wasn't 'high' or messing about and Bonzo was of course an incredible drummer by anyone's standards. More importantly they had a recognisable style or personality. Virtually no drummers have that any more even assuming they have the chops. 

Hi,

Carl Palmer talked about his chops ... and you know what he said in the interview I was with? "It's about the lyrics! Not the chops!" ... this was in LA.

In my ears, what creates "chops" is how the drummer adjusts to various parts of the music. However, nowadays, we are so used to the metronomic drummers, that can only hit a snare drum and call themselves a musician, when in the earlier days, it was a lot more than that and even Ringo deserves a nod for being very different than most drummers.

If you do theater and film, you learn about this very quick ... the camera has to make "use" of a line well delivered, and sometimes not in a wide/long shot so no one can get the effect. Just not "hollywood" style with the well delivered line having to be delivered with the camera in your face as is the case in almost all the soaps!

In music, and it is very visible in drumming, the "trickery" is funny ... Bill Bruford shows it in one of the tube bits ... how he plays in two different instruments, and he says ... it's the same thing, just sounds different. That's not exactly "chops" and he knew it, but because it sounded different elsewhere it was thought of as "chops". Carl was very sensitive to the lyrics and it's in almost all the albums, so thinking of him as just a drummer with "chops" is almost like saying that he just put those moments in there ad nauseum, or ad lib. AND THAT IS NOT TRUE. It was, sort of, about taking the lyrics "literally".

It was, and is, somewhat like taking the lyrics and making them stand out with the singer ... and this is something that the majority of the drummers we listen to, can not do right, as they are afraid that they will mess up the "timing" and then lose his job because of it!

For the best out there, it's not about the chops ... it's about the music. Or pretty soon we will be discussing Moonie's over use of all cymbals and call it "chops" ... it wasn't. It was his way of accentuating something many times ... which the other members of the band appreciated, and helped make their music better and more special than the rest of the mill stuff on the air!

Hi,

I'm listening to Pictures again. It was the first album of theirs that I got and I remember it well, and enjoyed it a lot.

I'm not sure I would call it "violence", but his ability to help and strengthen Greg and the whole thing was very nice, and strong all the way through, and it was what his style and ability was all about. 

The more important thing, is the fact that ELP stood up and DID something that almost no rock band will EVER consider and make it important. AND, to have an audience that appreciated every minute of it. That speaks volumes for the quality of the performance, and I imagine that there would be a little showing off here and there, but all in all, I found the ability to help the lyrics and the musical moments be stronger, something that is far out and very much appreciated. In most cases, specially today, almost all bands, all they do is turn up the loudness past the pain threshold to make sure that you "hear it", and in the end, it's just an empty solo that often does not even belong in the whole of the piece they are doing!

But ELP, in that album, showed that there is some serious appreciation to classical music, and its feeling, and that a rock band, can live it as well as anyone else. And they showed it! The only sad side of it, is that today, a band like ELP would probably get laughed off the stage and not appreciated because it is not metal, and the lyrics are weird and not worth remembering! It also does not need to be "loud" and "louder" to make a point, which is a difference in most cases!

Reminds me of an actor friend of mine, that played Iago at UCSB. I brought along another friend (a psychic at that!!!) and I went backstage to say hello to him after the show, and the first thing he said about the young man that played Iago ... he's so soft spoken and well mannered! 

The best, can do a lot, and don't have to spend their time advertising and showing off. They just do it! Carl, is not a "violent" person, and his efforts are not about violence, but about interpretation and ensuring that it helps the music as much as possible. 

AND, that, my friend, is the one thing that is much more important and valuable for a true musician, than the notes, chords, chops and charts!

Others who are rarely mentioned include Michael Hough from Flash and Steve Upton from Wishbone Ash.  

Enrico Grosso  (Dedalus)

Curt Cress  (Passport, Snoball)

Jon Hiseman (Colosseum)

John Marshall (Nucleus, Soft Machine)

Hans Bathelt (Triumvirat)

Carl Palmer (ELP)

Peter Giger (Dzyan, GLM)

John Marshall also drums on the Volker Kriegel albums "Inside: Missing Link" (1972) and "Lift" (1973), which I both highly recommend. here a track from each album:

Curt Cress Clan, too!

since we are at it: John Hiseman also was the drummer of Barbara Thompson's Paraphernalia and The United Jazz & Rock Ensemble

Ian Paice (Deep Purple), Roger Taylor-Meadows (Queen), John Bonham (Led Zeppelin), Bobby Caldwell (Captain Beyond), and Lee Keerslake (Uriah Heep) were all excellent! 

The drummers on Honky (just one word) were Frank Scully and Neil Symonette.

... Chester Thompson !

I'm not kidding, it really IS Chester Thompson on drums for this Era album. 

Emerson also had a hit with his cover of the Meade Lux Lewis song Honky Train Blues, performed here with Oscar Peterson (Carl Palmer on drums for Keith but he didn't play on the record)