A quote from Ivan, "Ok, but remember supergroups almost never work."

Sometimes they do. What SUPERGROUP(s) have been successful?

U.K. was one. I have heard some comments/posts saying this unit was over-rated. Fair enough, they're opinions. Personally I have found this album to contain some of my favorite moments in progressive rock; power vocals; roto toms from hell, great instrumental trade-offs, poly rhythms, jaw dropping guitar.....

ELP is a supergroup and I believe some could say the 73/74 era King Crimson was as well.

What SUPERGROUPS were successful?

Anyone citing GTR and or Asia may take some flak..... I own both, so I won't throw stones.   

I thought the Tangent CD was successful because it really pulled off what it started out trying to do... pay homage to the prog rock bands of the 60's70's. There are snippets of so many styles and sounds of the glory days.

BTW, they will be releasing a second CD soon.  A little NEWS, if you like: http://www.thetangent.org/ - http://www.thetangent.org/

I'd question whether UK were "successful". GTR had if I rememebr correctly about the same level of success as UK, as did Quango, i.e. not a lot.

Direct the flak this way, Asia must have been one of the most successful supergroups. Not what we expected of the members right enough, but their music blows my whistle. ELP must also be considered one of those which really made it success wise, eclipsing the members' source bands by some way.

I'm talking purely in terms of sucess here, not how good or otherwise they were.

ELP and UK were the only prog supergroups that really 'worked'.So the interesting question to me is why did so many fail? I suspect one reason is that supergroups are formed on the basis of reputations and not for artistic reasons. Keith Emerson needed to work with other people who could understand what he was trying to do in music.Greg Lake was not so well known at the time but Emerson could see the possibilities that working with him could bring.Famously they tried to get Hendrix involved (along with Mitch Mitchell) but instead they recruited the best young drummer around (not necessarily the one with the biggest reputation).So ELP was not just 3 random musicians who stumbled upon each other.

ELP were a hard act to follow.Ironically UK in their second incarnation mimicked the ELP 3 peice set up of bass drums and keyboards and made no secret of their desire to be ELP!

Marcelo wrote: Which is the way to consider a supergroup successful? Record sales or musical quality?

Ooooppps, Maybe relevant or meaningful would have been a better term. Record sales don't mean much....IMHO.  

Yes did turn into some kind of 'supergroup' when they got Wakeman and Howe in the band. And did it work? Well, not too many of you would say 'NO!', don't you?

Recently, I thought the OSI album was really worthwhile, I liked it even more than most Dream Theater stuff.

Richardh said:

ELP and UK were the only prog supergroups that really 'worked'.So the interesting question to me is why did so many fail? I suspect one reason is that supergroups are formed on the basis of reputations and not for artistic reasons.

Just to add another point about ELP that I didn't make before.There was a natural hiearchy in the band:

Keith Emerson - 26 years old at time of forming ELP.Biggest reputation.

Greg Lake - 24 years old -up and coming musician

Carl Palmer - 20 years old -'the baby'

There's no doubt in my mind that Keith Emerson ruled the band in the early days (Although I expect Three Fates may well disagree with me!).The first album is a 'keyboard wonderland'.The second album (Tarkus) was still very much Emerson's 'Baby' and Greg Lake even threatened to walk out because he thought Tarkus was an Emerson solo peice.The reason he didn't is that he isn't stupid! Lake knew that Emerson was one of the major talents in rock music and ELP as a band very much rode on that. Gradually ELP became more of an 'ensemble' and the band forged their best music on Trilogy and Brain Salad Surgery. Anyway sorry if this has turned into a potted ELP bio ,but basically my point is that ELP developed as a band because the there was a leader (at least intitially) and so a natural hiearchy in the band in the earlier years.Most supergroups just start out a battle of egos and so never really develop 'organically'.They are doomed to failure! 

ivan_2068 wrote:   99% sure that the msuic that band releases will sound totally different to Yes, Genesis, ELP, Rush and Mahavishnu, the poor fan will be dissapointed. Whatever they do won't be enough for that fan who expects almost magical music. Iván   Steve Hackett's Toyko Tapes worked pretty well and was sold on "imagine Genesis, King Crimson, Zappa and Weather Report coming together for one night...."

A couple of those solos albums by Jeff Berlin, e.g. Champion, had some interesting line-ups.

Dick Heath wrote: A couple of those solos albums by Jeff Berlin, e.g. Champion, had some interesting line-ups.

Interesting line-up with mediocre tunes and pop-jazz production. I was disappointed... it sounded like a group of uninspired studio guys with one hyper-busy bassist playing fast without any emotion whatsoever. Sad.

What about BRUFORD? That was defintely a supergroup: Dave Stewart from Hatfield and National Health, Allan Holdsworth with Gong/Lifetime/Soft Machine cred, ubber bassist Jeff Berlin and Bill (Yes/KC) Bruford. "One of a Kind" still stands as Jazz-Rock Fusion masterpiece.  

richardh wrote: There's no doubt in my mind that Keith Emerson ruled the band in the early days (Although I expect Three Fates may well disagree with me!).

Yeh, I do disagree with you, Richard, about Keith being the leader of the band. I will agree that musically, he probably lead... but overall.. no. Just by Keith's admission in his book alone.  The first day in the studio for the first album... Greg sat in the producers chair and no one challeged him or even got upset.  He took control of the bands sound.. whether or not Keith's composing was prevalent or not... Greg had control of the sound.  Also by Keith's book... he pretty much selected Greg because Greg was somewhat unknown and younger.. and had that golden voice.. I think he thought he could control Greg, but from the beginning, Greg controlled the shots on when they met.. and where.. I think Keith wrote.. that after weeks of waiting to hear from him, he called at 3am and said.. "I've decided to play with you"..hehe

The other thing that always got me about Keith.  He would complain and whine about Greg's studio requests, but then do what he suggested anyway. What does that tell you?

threefates wrote: richardh wrote: There's no doubt in my mind that Keith Emerson ruled the band in the early days (Although I expect Three Fates may well disagree with me!).  The other thing that always got me about Keith.  He would complain and whine about Greg's studio requests, but then do what he suggested anyway. What does that tell you?

That Greg always got his way which proves your point I suppose

So how about that ELP reunion then?

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/RTE_textbox.asp?mode=quote&POID=20798&ID=1407 -  

Third - Soft Machine

Shadows & Light - Joni Mitchell ?

Birds Of Fire - Mahavishnu Orchestra

Hymn of 7th Galaxy - Return to Forever

Oh Yeah - Charles Mingus

Turn It Over - Tony Williams

Road Games - Allan Holdsworth

Spectrum - Billy Cobham

Octave of the Holy Innocents - Hellborg, Shrieve and Buckethead

(I used the internet on #4 and #8)

Here's a point:

The chemistry between the musicians is more important than the quality of the individual musicians themselves.

AngelRat wrote: Here's a point: The chemistry between the musicians is more important than the quality of the individual musicians themselves.

indeed...

I think the problem is that everybody in a "Supergroup" wants to do "lead" others, to be the "boss"...and 5 bosses in a band...that won't work...

Maybe i'm wrong but a great formed by 4 great musicians that have an almost symbiotic way of playing is Liquid Tension Esperiment 1 and 2 .

John Petrucci

Mike Portnoy

Tony Levin

and Jordan Rudess

It might seems like a remix of Dream Theater but it sound less metal on some pieces and more latin on others. it is a must ear I should say! With 20 minutes pieces, incredible time signatures and half hour long jams a lot of group should inspire music on these folks works.

richardh wrote: That Greg always got his way which proves your point I suppose So how about that ELP reunion then?

Yep, I always found that Greg did get his way... and lets just hope he does with this reunion!!

Dick Heath said;

Well Dick, Tokyo Tapes was a unique and special case, they sounded pretty much like King Crimson and Genesis because they played Genesis and King Crimson songs.

Most people who bought Tokyo Tapes wanted to listen Steve Hackett playing Genesis music and his own stuff, King Crimson and Asia songs are a great bonus.

Also important to remember Steve Hackett didn't create a supergroup, because that lineup didn't played  a single song or note composedby them, they were almost a group of ultra talented session musicians hired by Steve to play cover tracks.

Last but not least, I believe that group of musicians worked well because they never formed a band, they only gathered for a small tour to play Genesis, Hackett, Crimson and Asia music, nothing else. They never had a single problem deciding who will be the composer or who will arrange the versions, they played mostly Genesis music arranged by Steve Hackett.

The Crimson tracks are practicly exact to the original versions, almost nothing has been changed or added by that group of musicians and Heat of the Moment was an acoustic version arranged sung and performed by Wetton with a bit of Steve Howe's classic guitar chords.

So they were not a supergroup, just a bunch of talented musicians gathered to play their favorite music.

Iván

ivan_2068 wrote: So they were not a supergroup, just a bunch of talented musicians gathered to play their favorite music. Iván

Sorry, English semantics are getting in the way again. I've given my definition which seems to be the original definition of supergroup, and I can't see how this line-up isn't a supergroup.

I can understand where Dick is coming from in identifying the band of musicians who made "The Tokyo tapes" (and indeed "Genesis revisited") as a Supergroup.

For me though, Ivan's point that they never actually created anything new together is valid. As the album cover says, "Tokyo Tapes" was a one off event, the musicians concerned never acutally formed, or had any intention of forming, a (Super)group together. Neither the bunch of people who recorded the Bandaid single, or the massive line up at the end of "Live Aid" were supergroups in my book.

One which hasn't been mention so far (I don't think), probably because they weren't prog, is the Travelling Wilburys (Dylan/Harrison/Orbison/Petty/Lynne). Their first album was superb, although the second (third?) was disappointing.

One which hasn't been mention so far (I don't think), probably because they weren't prog, is the Travelling Wilburys (Dylan/Harrison/Orbison/Petty/Lynne). Their first album was superb, although the second (third?) was disappointing.

Funny you mention "The Travelling Willburies", a friend called them "The Dead Musicians Society" when the first album was released, just looking at the video made me laugh because it was a great description, but even they were very close to retirement they made a great debut album.

Neither the bunch of people who recorded the Bandaid single, or the massive line up at the end of "Live Aid" were supergroups in my book.

I never thought about them, but a good example.

Iván

I don't actually think of the Travelin' Wilburys as a supergroup.  Or Ringo Starr's All Stars.. since the line ups seem to change all the time. They are more like projects, than actual groups.

Also I think Qango was mentioned before.. and even tho that had John Wetton and Carl Palmer.. they pretty much only played ELP and Asia songs... to me that was more like a tribute band!

Dick Heath wrote: threefates wrote: I don't actually think of the Travelin' Wilburys as a supergroup. .. since the line ups seem to change all the time. Again the press called them a supergroup for good reasons. But changes were pressed on them because of the death of Roy Orbison and then his replacement, Del Shannon.

I have to agree with Dick about Travellin' Willburies because:

1. They formed a band and named it, not taking any members name
2. They released three albums
3. They composed their own music
4. The compositions were made by two or more members
5. They toured together

The fact they kept changing members was because Orbison died or others joined (as Dick said). This doesn't matter, some bands changed a lot of members (Uriah Heep changed almost 30 members in 10 years and nobody doubts they are a band).

Ringo Starr All Stars is a different case, and there I agree with Threefates this group sounds more like session musicians hired or invited by Ringo for a determined project to play covers and/or songs previously recorded by the members.

Iván

Did the Wilbury's release three? I thought it was two, but the second one was called volume three or something similar!

Good to see a quick mention for Heep there Ivan, keep it up!

Dick, "Flash Fearless versus the Zorg Women parts 5 and 6"! Elkie Brooks, Alice Cooper, Jim Dandy, James Dewar, John Entwhistle, Frankie Miller and Eddie Jobson, plus Carmine Apice, Bill Buford, Justin Hayward, Nicky Hopkins, Kenny Jones, Keith Moon, "Thunderthighs" (sic), Johnny Weider. Great line up, pity about the album!

I always found these types of albums disappointing. The guest musicians usually sounded only half commited to the project. "All this and world war two" was OK, but do you remember the Bee Gees/Frampton "Sgt Pepper" album and film of Beatles songs? Dreadful!

Easy Living wrote:

Good to see a quick mention for Heep there Ivan, keep it up!

Heep is always on my mind, a few minutes ago I bought Sailing the Sea of Light DVD, but havent seen yet because today is our National Holiday and my sister came with her son so he's watching Barney DVD's. I'm impatient to enjoy the UH  show.

About Travelling Wilburys, yes, there are only two albums, my sister has a CD named Vol. 3, so I assumed that they had three releases.

Iván

Easy Livin wrote: Did the Wilbury's release three? I thought it was two, but the second one was called volume three or something similar!

Correct.

Easy Livin wrote: Dick, "Flash Fearless versus the Zorg Women parts 5 and 6"! Elkie Brooks, Alice Cooper, Jim Dandy, James Dewar, John Entwhistle, Frankie Miller and Eddie Jobson, plus Carmine Apice, Bill Buford, Justin Hayward, Nicky Hopkins, Kenny Jones, Keith Moon, "Thunderthighs" (sic), Johnny Weider. Great line up, pity about the album! I always found these types of albums disappointing. The guest musicians usually sounded only half commited to the project. "All this and world war two" was OK, but do you remember the Bee Gees/Frampton "Sgt Pepper" album and film of Beatles songs? Dreadful!

Absolutely - apparent cynicism on the parts of the albumproducers and main stars - thinking the fans will buy anything as long as their favorites are on it..... Fans for the most part, were gullible just the once, and ignored subsequent albums unless there was a better reason for buying, than simply a favorite musician. I think the sales of the original studio recording of Jesus Christ Superstar suffered a little from fans' suspicions about "all star casts". And the original orchestral/all star Tommy (did Steve Winwood play Roger Daltrey's dad??), is another example of conning the fans.

Dick,

Winwood did indeed play Tommy's father, singing "Christmas". I actually enjoyed the Lou Reizner version, totally over the top, including a lavish box and booklet.. Sandy Denny was sadly wasted on it though :

"It's a boy Mrs Walker, it's a boy".

"Thanks Sandy that's all we need from you!"

Yep, I always found that Greg did get his way... and lets just hope he does with this reunion!!

Why is that so important? More ELP listeners like ELP for Keith and Carl, not necessarily Greg. Yes, he sang and played bass, but Keith's keyboard acrobatics and Carl's drumming are what most people seem to reminisce about. I wonder why Keith and Carl just didn't get another bassist/vocalist (Wetton) whose tone was reasonably similar (doesn't have to be, though), was probably more available (Wetton), and who probably wouldn't walk out of the studio if he couldn't insist on being the producer, no ifs, ands, or buts (Lake). There are many guys who could've assumed the Lake role. Greg sounded pretty good on the Black Moon tour...but now? Would he be croaking away like the Budweiser frogs, or (as one guy put it on another forum) would he "Shatner" his way through the set?

I guess you don't pay attention very much in the world of ELP...  It is E L and P.... wouldn't be them at all without Greg.  He is after all even referred to by Keith as "The Voice" 

 Remember "Three"... Emerson, Palmer and Berry....

You also don't evidently know a whole lot about Wetton.  John has been a really bad alcoholic for the last few years.. No one will even try to play with him anymore.  His last stunt with Qango was a laugh... you should hear the stories the other band members tell... I also understand he hit someone driving drunk and had to spend some time in jail...  Even in the 70s when singing with KC.. he never had the voice Greg had... not even "ITHS" Greg....

If you're trying to hurt me Heldon/dropforge... you've got to do better than that...

P.S.... I doubt Trinifold, The Who's management, would of taken Greg on if his voice sounded like the Budweiser frogs...

Why do you assume I'm trying to "hurt" you? Are you just used to being the popular gal who "hung out with ELP" over on the Lake board? Does everyone agree with you, always?

I've long known of Wetton's fetish for booze, but he is trying to deal with it (finally), at least. I heard he needed to be "helped" onto the stage at one of his Wetton Band gigs...and the stage was only inches higher than the floor! Yes, it (and he) is pathetic. But if he can better himself, though, he'll be back in form. I saw him at ProgFest '97 and his voice sounded as great as ever. He guested on "One Way Or Another" with Ken Hensley's band and he sounded great. This can be caught on DVD, btw (that's not the ProgFest gig, this was much more recently). As long as he can evade the demons, he's a solid showman.

Even in the 70s when singing with KC.. he never had the voice Greg had... not even "ITHS" Greg....

John's voice is one of the great classic prog voices, whether you like it or not. He may have wasted his time with Asia, but he was in top form with Crimson and U.K. And sorry, but the difference between how well John's voice has aged and how Greg's hasn't was even evident back when Greg assumed John's role in Asia. On a '98 bootleg, it sounded as though Greg's voice had dropped two octaves since the very first King Crimson album.

And yes, 3 was a joke.

So, Linda, yet another attempt of yours to paint me as an ignorant fool has failed! Now what?

Even in the 70s when singing with KC.. he never had the voice Greg had... not even "ITHS" Greg....

Well, I disagree here, Wetton's voice is very similar to Lake's, they both reached the same ranges (in their past days of glory) but IMO Wetton did by far a better job in King Crimson than Lake.

It's true that Wetton is not the same vocalist than some years ago, but Lake neither. I saw a few days ago a past concert of Ringo Starr all Stars with Greg Lake, and honestly Lucky Man was a joke, Lake doesn't reach any reasonable high note

This is part of a review made in the Ringo Starr and his All-Starr Band official page: Surprisingly, Greg Lake was the crowd favorite. He received standing ovations for all three of his songs. Even a tepid and out of key “Lucky Man brought the crowd to its feet.”

I don't want to hurt you Threefates, but that's my honest opinion.

Iván

That's it, Iván! You're now on Linda's sh*tlist! You don't realize what you've done!

dropForge wrote: John's voice is one of the great classic prog voices, whether you like it or not. He may have wasted his time with Asia, but he was in top form with Crimson and U.K. And sorry, but the difference between how well John's voice has aged and how Greg's hasn't was even evident back when Greg assumed John's role in Asia. On a '98 bootleg, it sounded as though Greg's voice had dropped two octaves since the very first King Crimson album. And yes, 3 was a joke. So, Linda, yet another attempt of yours to paint me as an ignorant fool has failed! Now what?

Ah contrare... but it is generally you who is trying to tell me what I'm saying... or making me out to be the ignorant one.. since you keep making comments about I should get away from 70s proggers.. and then you use Rick Wakeman and Patrick Moraz...as an example of who I should also listen too... and they were 70s proggers...  Make up your mind...

And just because Greg's voice had dropped an octave... that is suppose to mean.... what??  I thought he sounded much better on Asia, that John had previously... but then Greg has that tonal reflection in his voice that makes him truly unique.. no matter what octave he sings in... and I would prefer hearing it over Wetton... thats true.  I didn't say I didn't like John's voice.. I just don't think he sang with the intonation or passion that Greg sang with...

If that makes either you or me ignorant... then more power to us!

ivan_2068 wrote: Even in the 70s when singing with KC.. he never had the voice Greg had... not even "ITHS" Greg.... Well, I disagree here, Wetton's voice is very similar to Lake's, they both reached the same ranges (in their past days of glory) but IMO Wetton did by far a better job in King Crimson than Lake. It's true that Wetton is not the same vocalist than some years ago, but Lake neither. I saw a few days ago a past concert of Ringo Starr all Stars with Greg Lake, and honestly Lucky Man was a joke, Lake doesn't reach any reasonable high note This is part of a review made in the Ringo Starr and his All-Starr Band official page: Surprisingly, Greg Lake was the crowd favorite. He received standing ovations for all three of his songs. Even a tepid and out of key “Lucky Man brought the crowd to its feet.” I don't want to hurt you Threefates, but that's my honest opinion. Iván

Sorry Ivan.. I disagree with you here.  Greg and John might of sang in the same octave.. but not really.  See Greg has always had to strain to sing in the high octaves... but besides that.. I have heard both Greg and John sing live and in the studios.. many times and I've never thought they sounded anything alike.  John's voice is too generic.. and there are so many other singers out there that sing just like him.  I can't pick him out of the lineup so to speak.. as easy as I can Greg's voice.  No one else sounds like Greg. 

I saw atleast 3 of the Ringo shows.. and I have the video.  He does a great version of Lucky Man on my video.. not out of key at all.. and he does get a standing ovation... for a reason.  Its not like fans of Ringo were generally big ELP fans...

Have you ever heard Greg sing on Pete Sinfield's solo album.. ."Still".  When he comes in on that chorus... the angels themselves bend down from heaven to get an earful of that....

CREAM were succesfull supergroup.I am wondering were Mahavishnu orchestra supergroup?For me they were.

many times and I've never thought they sounded anything alike.  John's voice is too generic.. and there are so many other singers out there that sing just like him.

Ok, we're here to discuss and sometimes to disagree, and that's OK.

John Wetton GENERIC?

I don't think Bob Fripp will choose a generic vocalist, neither URIAH HEP, much less UK.

But most important, Steve Hackett is one of the most exquisit composers and he only works with the best, he asked John Wetton to sing in Genesis Revisited and Tokyo Tapes, and he did a wonderfull job.

Personaly I prefer Greg Lake, only because he has more of soul, John is too cold and lacks of charisma, but both sound very similar to me and to 99% of the progressive fans.

I don't think we should praise thequality of our favorite artist attacking another one because of his weaknes, it's ok to say Greg is better vocalist than John Wetton, but to use the arguments that John's voice is generic and to mention his ooze problem is too much IMHO.

His private life and addictions are his problem and I understand he's working very hard to fight his problems, I'm sure that there are a lot of bands that would kill to have a vocalist like him.

John Wetton is a living legend, he has worked in the some of the best bands of the progressive scenario like King Crimson,  UK, Uriah Heep, Steve Hackett, The Magna Carta group (Asia was a mistake, but his voice was the best of the band) and forthat he deserves some respect.

Every vocalist has problems with age, John Wetton, Greg Lake, Peter Gabriel, Steve Walsh (Last Kansas gigs sound great but vocals are a joke), but not many singers have done what John did during his life.

Iván

ivan_2068 wrote: I don't think Bob Fripp will choose a generic vocalist, neither URIAH HEP, much less UK.

Sorry, I found Adrian Belew generic also...

ivan_2068 wrote: Personaly I prefer Greg Lake, only because he has more of soul, John is too cold and lacks of charisma, but both sound very similar to me and to 99% of the progressive fans.

Evidently not to 100% of the ELP fans

ivan_2068 wrote: I don't think we should praise thequality of our favorite artist attacking another one because of his weaknes, it's ok to say Greg is better vocalist than John Wetton, but to use the arguments that John's voice is generic and to mention his ooze problem is too much IMHO. His private life and addictions are his problem and I understand he's working very hard to fight his problems, I'm sure that there are a lot of bands that would kill to have a vocalist like him.

Sorry, I in no way want to disparage John Wetton. I've just never found his voice to be that unique, but I've always appreciated him as a performer. The remarks I made were in defense of dropforge's remark that the E&P should drop the L in favor of the W...  However, in talking extensively recently with a good friend of John's I understand that they are very saddened by the fact that he's not fighting hard to overcome his drinking.  Altho I'm sure we all are praying that he starts to do so soon!

Threefates wrote:

However, in talking extensively recently with a good friend of John's I understand that they are very saddened by the fact that he's not fighting hard to overcome his drinking.

There it goes again Threefates, I wasn’t going to post in this thread because I agree with you in the point that Greg Lake is a better vocalist than John Wetton (But doesn’t have a better voice)

But in the moment you mentioned John’s drinking problem, I decided to post, because I believe it’s unfair, he has done a great job along his career and deserves something more that the people talking about his PERSONAL AND PRIVATE problems and/or addictions.

If he’s an alcoholic and isn’t working hard to leave it, IS NOT OUR BUSINESS (Even when I hope he gets better), and has absolutely nothing to do with his abilities as a vocalist and a bass player.

Jimmy Hendrix, Gary Thain, Jim Morrison, John Entwistle, Elvis Presley, David Byron and many more artists died because of drug or alcohol abuse, but they all were among the best of Rock history, and nobody can doubt it, even when we’re talking about extreme cases that can’t be compared with John Wetton’s problem.

There’s no merit if Greg is better than  an alcoholic, finished and average singer with whom nobody wants to play, the merit is that he as good (for me is better) than a vocalist like John Wetton who is in his same league.

Again I like more Greg Lake’s style but that doesn’t mean John Wetton is not as good as him (probably for some people even better). It’s only a matter of tastes.

IMO Peter Gabriel is the best vocalist of all Prog Rock, but I won’t attack any other artist who is mentioned in this or any thread.

Please, let’s leave personal lives away from our posts, we’re part of a serious progressive forum, not E! Entertainment Television paparazzis who live from other persons problems.

Iván

Mentioning John Wetton's problem had nothing to do with his talent as a singer or performer.. and defintely nothing to do with whether or not he or Greg is the better singer... that will always be a matter of opinion or individualism... I was just correcting an inaccuracy.. and I'm karmic enough to think that if everyone wishes him better... maybe he will be. 

If this is a professsional forum as you say, then overlooking a performers current situation that affect his future as a performer, takes away from the accuracy of the information.  I don't see anyone complaining here when so many seem to slam Greg in regard to his voice, when they haven't even heard him sing in years. Or when the jokes are made about his weight... And then there's poor Mariah...

Now, now....shtoppit, you two!

So you found both Wetton AND Belew "generic"? You'd better invest in an earwax removal kit!!!! How can anyone find Belew "generic"? I love the '80s Crimson incarnation probably more than any other lineup, and his quirky vocals are one of KC's best assets. Adrian's got a way cool voice.

The remarks I made were in defense of dropforge's remark that the E&P should drop the L in favor of the W...

That's not what I meant, initially. I'm not saying they should...but they could. Heck, it'd be better than Robert Berry. Now THERE is a generic voice, nothing against the guy. He sounds like Lake, sans the ability to emote. If Keith & Carl tried to find success with Berry, they'd certainly have a better chance at it with Wetton. Just keep padlocks on all the mini-bars!

threefates wrote: Well I think ELP were pretty darn successful.. in other ways besides record sales.  For one thing, regardless of good or bad publicity.. they still seem to get a lot of it.

Successful??????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If to define the sound of generation, create the standard of musicmanship relative to which everything (with the exception of Yes and King Crimson) is judged, to create own musical universe and language, to set the STANDARD (listen to Niacin) is called succesful? I do not know than how the TRIUMPH would sound!!!

Russiandude wrote: threefates wrote: Well I think ELP were pretty darn successful.. in other ways besides record sales.  For one thing, regardless of good or bad publicity.. they still seem to get a lot of it. Successful??????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If to define the sound of generation, create the standard of musicmanship relative to which everything (with the exception of Yes and King Crimson) is judged, to create own musical universe and language, to set the STANDARD (listen to Niacin) is called succesful? I do not know than how the TRIUMPH would sound!!!

You know.. I really love you!!

You also don't evidently know a whole lot about Wetton.  John has been a really bad alcoholic for the last few years.. No one will even try to play with him anymore.  His last stunt with Qango was a laugh... you should hear the stories the other band members tell... I also understand he hit someone driving drunk and had to spend some time in jail...

Let me insist Threefates, if you read you post it's clear that this is a comparation based in the personal tragedy of John Wetton.

It's different to make a joke about Greg, Gabriel, Gilmour, Squire, etc being overweight, this quote is not a joke it sounds like a judgement. And him being jailed is only a rumour, I searched the web and found nothing about it.

Iván

Insist away....but I see no comparison.. a sadness maybe, but no comparison. Actually its not a rumor. I searched the web last year and found nothing on it either, but it was confirmed by a couple of members of Quango who also said it meant the end of the band.

[/QUOTE]

You know.. I really love you!!

[/QUOTE]

Well Total reciprocation!!!! And partially this is my musical maximalism!!! Sometimes just "good" is not good enough, especially in prog, and this is not just the matter of loyalties--ELP will always be there, up there, way up there!!!

Great topic Danbo

As I've mentioned on other threads I am into this Hungarian band called Omega. They formed in 1962! and are currently still going with a huge concert in Budapest tonight. If that is not sucsessfull I don't know what is. These guys have been at it longer than the Rolling stones for freak sake! Wish I could be there.

Of course there ar all the other obvious ones which have already been discussed on this thread.

A Supergroup from Sweden PÄR LINDH PROJECT Gothic Impressions 1994 Studio Album

4.25 Excellent addition to any prog music collection http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_CD.asp?cd_id=807#reviews">

Total Time: 52:54 Line-up - Pär Lindh / keyboards, bass, drums, percussion WITH: - Ralf Glasz / vocals - Mathias Jonsson / vocals                                                    - Johan Högberg / bass  ANGLAGARD - Björn Johansson / classical guitar, bassoon, Tinwhistle  Par Lindh and Bjorn Johansson  - Magdalena Hagberg / vocals Par Lindh and Bjorn Johansson  - Anna Holmgren / flute  ANGLAGARD - Jonas Endgegård / electric guitar ANGLAGARD - Mattias Olsson / drums, percussion ANGLAGARD  - Jocke Ramsell / electric guitar - Lovisa Stenberg / harp - Roine Stolt / acoustic guitar  THE FLOWER KINGS - Camerata Vocalis / choir vocals

And it worked perfectly.

Iván