Your favourite Punk albums?
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Topic: Your favourite Punk albums?
Posted By: David_D
Subject: Your favourite Punk albums?
Date Posted: April 21 2022 at 13:42
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I've seen not so little interest for various kind of Punk, so let's try a thread like this. My own collection and list here include a bit of Proto-Punk, and listed in chronological order: The Stooges (USA) - Fun House (Proto-, 1970) Patti Smith Group (USA) - Radio Ethiopia (Proto-, 1976) Sex Pistols (UK) - Never Mind The Bollocks... (Punk Rock, 1977) Television (USA) - Marquee Moon (Art, 1977) Pere Ubu (USA) - The Modern Dance (Post-/Art, 1978) The Clash (UK) - London Calling (Punk Rock, 1979) Bauhaus (UK) - In The Flat Field (Gothic/Post-, 1980) Siouxsie and The Banshees (UK) - Juju (Gothic/Post-, 1981) Before (DK) - A Wish of Life (Post-, 1982) Mission of Burma (USA) - VS. (Post-, 1982) Black Flag (USA) - My War (Hardcore, 1983) Hüsker Dü (USA) - Zen Arcade (Hardcore, 1984) Dead Moon (USA) - Unknown Passage (Garage, 1989) Fugazi (USA) - Repeater (Post-Hardcore, 1990) Babes in Toyland (USA) - Fontanelle (Riot Grrrl, 1992) plus a very fine compilation of the American Punk: Various artists (USA) - Let them eat Jellybeans! 17 Extracts from Americas darker Side (1981) Another thing good to mention is the very informative and well-written book about the American Pre-Punk, Proto-Punk, Punk Rock, Art Punk and Post-Punk in the years 1961-80, From the Velvets to the Voidoids. A Pre-Punk History for a Post-Punk World (1993) by Clinton Heylin. Okay, there we go punky!  Edit: I've edited the thread title and my OP, so they now don't say "diverse Punk", as it seemed to cause some confusion.
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Replies:
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: April 21 2022 at 13:54
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Dead Kennedys "Fresh Fruit for Rotting Vegetables" Black Flag "Damaged" Circle Jerks "Wild in the Streets" early Meat Puppets Germs "Everything We Do is Secret" Ramones "Leave Home" Iggy Pop PIL "Metal Box" Husker Du "land Speed Record" Angry Samoans "Back from Samoa" The Dickies DEVO "Duty Now for the Future" Green Day "Dookie" and more ------------- Help the victims of the russian invasion: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446 |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: April 21 2022 at 13:58
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This is the fastest list reply I've seen, Easy Money, but I'd like to see some albums mentioned.  ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Gentle and Giant
Date Posted: April 21 2022 at 15:20
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The Damned Crass Dead Kennedys Sex Pistols PiL Killing Joke (maybe, maybe not punk) The Exploited
------------- Oh, for the wings of any bird, other than a battery hen |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: April 21 2022 at 15:25
what is "diverse punk"? 
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Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: April 21 2022 at 15:42
As for instance mentioned in my list. There're other sub-genres as well. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Cristi wrote:Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: April 21 2022 at 15:56
I would add: MC5 - Kick Out The Jams Police - Outlandos d'Amour The Damned - Machine Gun Etiquette Wire - Pink Flag Ramones - Rocket to Russia Dead Kennedys - Fresh Fruit for Rotting VegetablesThe Jam - The Gift (maybe not really punk anymore by that time) Violent Femmes' debut album Trust - Marche ou Crève Téléphone - Crache Ton Venin
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: April 21 2022 at 16:07
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------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: April 22 2022 at 03:08
Any favourites here, Cristi? ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: April 22 2022 at 03:58
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The end of Easter holidays.    ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Hiram
Date Posted: April 22 2022 at 07:01
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Loads of good stuff listed already!! Joy Division and The Fall would be rather obvious I think. JMKE, Estonian punk band very much influenced by Dead Kennedys. Especially their first album is brilliant. Jesus Lizard, Big Black, Melvins etc. |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: April 22 2022 at 07:34
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A few favorites off the top of my head: Subhumans | From the Cradle to the Grave —- of special interest to prog fans is the sidelong multipart title track. The whole thing is amazing though. My favorite punk album hands down Dead Kennedys | Plastic Surgery Disasters —- my 2nd fav Also: Minutemen | Double Nickels on the Dime (post/indie) Wire | 154 (post-) The Fall | This Nation’s Saving Grace (post-) —- really, any of their albums from 1980-86 could be here. Television | Marquee Moon — not punk exactly but it was really its own thing at the time Angry Samoans | Back from Samoa —- a motley crew of rock critics, math professors and borderline crazies make one of the funn(i)est hardcore records ever. ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: April 22 2022 at 07:51
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This Heat - Deceit Joy Division - Closer Stiff Little Fingers - Inflammable Material The Clash - Londons Calling Devo - Are We Not Men? Black Country New Road - For The First Time Stranglers - No More Heroes Squid - Bright Green Field ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: April 22 2022 at 09:04
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I don't like much punk, but it seems I like a lot of non-punk that some people think is punk.  Some examples: Killing Joke, PIL, Joy Division, Wire, Gang of Four, Comsat Angels,... Here are some Germans (plus one Austrian): |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: April 22 2022 at 09:43
I better give it a listen. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: April 22 2022 at 10:05
It’s kind of hard to argue that bands described as post-punk are not punk. Just as post-rock bands are still rock, and post-metal bands are still metal, post-punk is still punk - just a different form of it. This is especially true when you consider that almost all the bands you mention, while now generally called post-punk, were initially part of a new wave of bands coming from and reading against the rawness and simplicity of the first wave of punk, and before one name was eventually agreed upon, were known as new punk, new wave, and art punk, and probably others, too. At the same time as the new wave was the so called no wave, also called avant punk. But new wave or no wave, art punk or avant punk, they all eventually became known as the vast, sprawling genre that is post-punk. While “post” means after, it doesn’t mean it’s not part of the same lineage. Another example within the many punk sub-genres (of which post-prog is generally recognised as being) is post-hardcore. Both hardcore and post-hardcore are sub-genres of punk, and while the latter came “after” the former, post-hardcore is still a form of hardcore. Pop punk is the sub-genre that to me seems and sounds often to have the least resemblance or point of comparison to the original punk scene. Post-prog is considerably closer to the original aesthetic than pop punk, to my ears. It may have more sophistication than the garage and pub rock sounds of the original wave of punk, but it is nowhere near as polished and commercial. There has also always been a world of difference between the original UK and US punk scenes and sounds, that has carried on and over through time in both those countries. I really don’t know enough about the original punk scenes and sounds from countries other than the UK or US, but I guess I’ve always imagined that they tended to take after one or the other of those. I think punk and prog cause very similar intransigence in the views of their fans and listeners, where a lot of punk or prog listeners seem anything that happened after the initial wave to not really be the real thing, or to judge everything against that original sound, and if it is not close enough, to not call it punk/prog. So there are fans out there that like the classic punk/prog from the early days, and the retro punk/prog from today, but ignore any of the other sub-genres as being “not really punk/prog”. ------------- https://tinyurl.com/nickhnz-tpa" rel="nofollow - Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: April 22 2022 at 13:49
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@Nick: I'm not too obsessed with label definitions really, even though I admit that my posting reads differently. The first sentence I wrote was fun to write, but I'm not too invested in it. I see it like that indeed, but to me it isn't very important whether others see it differently. At the time we (people around me and the media I followed) didn't count these bands into punk, rather they had taken up the punk influence to do something different. Also some musicians said so in interviews. For me personally punk is quite specific, not an overarching supercategory as prog, let alone rock. This was the attitude I got at the time, but I was quite young and my horizon may have been limited. At the end of the day there is not more objective truth in it than in what you say, so fair enough. Ultimately all music is what it is, whether it is called this or that is secondary. |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: April 22 2022 at 13:54
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By the way, Comsat Angels can never be played too much. |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: April 22 2022 at 14:25
great ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: April 22 2022 at 15:02
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Thanks for this little "Punk" discussion, as I've used it to clarify further my own point of view. It inspired me also to have a closer look at the different sub-genres, which made me to discover a couple more albums in my collection considered to be a part of "Punk", so my own list has grown a bit and to include more sub-genres - and I like that for the sake of diversity.  ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: April 22 2022 at 15:52
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This is as punk as anything if you ask me. |
Posted By: The Anders
Date Posted: April 22 2022 at 15:59
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There's not much regular punk in my collection (partly because I am often bored with anything "stylistically pure"), but quite a lot of albums that I listen to regularly have a touch of punk in them some way. |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: April 22 2022 at 16:30
Well, the way I met Punk in the age of 20, Never Mind the Bullocks... is the very core of it. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: April 22 2022 at 17:12
But things are changing all the time, and I think that today it's best to label Never Mind the Bullocks... as Punk Rock, a sub-genre of "Punk", and with for instance Post-Punk as another sub-genre.
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: April 22 2022 at 17:21
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Diverse Punk? The band that comes immediately to mind is the Pogues. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: April 23 2022 at 00:48
Oh, don’t worry (not that you were), as I wasn’t having a go at you. And I could say the same too, as I am not at all bothered by label definitions, though my post, too, probably reads differently. I have long maintained that the only genres of music that matter to me are “music I like”, “music I don’t like”, and “music I haven’t listened to yet”. At a push, I would also add a sub-genre to “music I don’t like” called “music I don’t like yet”. I’m really kind of excited for how music will be viewed in the future - as based on my children and their friends, who have grown up in a time when music from any time, place or genre is pretty much instantly accessible, the idea of genre has so little relevance to their listening habits as to be almost meaningless. If I asked them what punk was, I expect I would be met with blank stares - despite much of the music they listen to being punk of some kind or another. (One of my ten year old son’s favourite bands is The Offspring.) That might seem unbelievable to many of you, but I know from experience that despite them listening to metal and to hip hop, my twelve year old daughter had never heard of either term, despite listening to music from both those genres. If I couldn’t have given a definition of a genre by the age of ten (and probably younger that that), I could have at least given an example of a band or artist who was metal, hip hop, soul, folk, etc. I was familiar with the genres, because they were used to describe the music more overtly and often. While genres can still be used when streaming, they are not as necessary and can easily be overlooked or ignored. I love that my children listen to anything without prejudice. There is no such thing as a guilty pleasure, and I doubt that would ever occur to them. They listen to music from everything from the ‘60s to today, from pretty much every genre. I don’t know how they come across a lot of it, but I guess it’s down to algorithms. But they consume and enjoy it all. Everything. I sincerely hope this is the future of music listening, because so many people get too bound by genre, and to caught up in labels. The problem with any genre or label, be it prog or punk of whatever, is that music does not exist in a vacuum. It continues to change and evolve over time. Attempting to define music of one era by the standards of a previous one simply doesn’t work. This is something Pedro often complains about, and as annoying as it might be for some people to concede, he is right. What is or isn’t part of any particular genre is almost entirely subjective. There may well be some bands and artists that are universally agreed upon to be part of a genre - and they are nearly always those who existed when the genre was first applied. But that application is almost in retrospect, and that’s something else to remember. The signifer almost always comes after the signified. We apply a definition to something that already was, and then attempt to ascribe that same definition forever forward. It’s never going to work, and always going to cause arguements. The last line of your post is the most important: all music is what it is, whether it is called this or that. And that’s how my children listen to music, and I think that’s great. 🤗 ------------- https://tinyurl.com/nickhnz-tpa" rel="nofollow - Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: April 23 2022 at 01:24
It could be maybe considered as a part of Proto-Punk (there's more of this stuff on Yeti). That would be very interesting. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: April 23 2022 at 01:44
Sonically, maybe/yes. Spiritually not likely. Attitude-wise , no Lyrics-wise, not a chance. ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: April 23 2022 at 01:53
Does that mean, you won't consider it as a part of Proto-Punk?
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: April 23 2022 at 03:26
OK I have exaggerated... I mean as punk as what most seem to call punk here. Anyway, for sure ADII had a similar anti-establishment attitude as the punks later. Also in the early days they were very inclusive, everybody who could hold an instrument could be a musician. It's true that ADII was the core of the more ambitious musicians of the original Amon Duul and some of them became quite good over time, but on the first albums lack of technical professionalism surely still shows, and that was not an accident; they were still well connected to their anarchist roots (in fact you can still hear this even on their 2010 album); music was fun and a group experience rather than something that required sophisticated education and training. Lyrics-wise I'm with you, and of course 20 minute improvisations are not a punk thing (for which reason I chose that song).
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Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: April 23 2022 at 04:09
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While my list here is growing and growing. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: April 23 2022 at 09:34
Oh yes,
Amon Duul was first an ani-establishment hippy commune that started to
play mlusic and then split up into two faction: ADI "played" polit rock,
wanting to create a new future (while the punk yelled 'no future'),
while AD2 went psychedlic. I view UK Punk as a reaction to a social gvt (the UK were dominated by labour in the 70's - with the communists getting a sensible share of the votes), albeit understandable, because the country was politcally & economically blocked. The punks wanted opportunity (find their place in the sun), and I'm relatively certain that a lot of them voted Tory (Paul Weller of The Jam certainly admitted to it), maybe
even fascist. You got to remember that a lot of punk-followers were
middle class playing bad dudes with money to spend (on clothes, notably -
Westwood/McLaren shops) - not unemployement kids sharing the slums with
the immigrants. What they probably didn't bargain for, is the Maggie Bitcher shock, though. ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: April 23 2022 at 09:42
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Does this qualify as DIVERSE ? ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 23 2022 at 10:36
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I love lots of more experimental post-punk music and art punk. I love thinks deemed proto-punk and punk proper (The Velvet Underground, The Stooges...). Some of this may be questionable and sorry for not being very diverse. Bauhaus - In the Flat Field (Gothic Rock Post-Punk) Daughters - You Won't Get What You Want (Noise Industrial Rock, Art Punk) Nick Cave and The Bad Seeds - Let Love In (Alternative Rock. Post-Punk) Joy Division - Unknown Pleasures (Post-Punk, Gothic Rock) Melt-Banana - Cell-Scape (Noise Rock, Hardcore Punk) Pere Ubu - The Modern Dance (Post-Punk, Experimental Rock) Phew - Phew (Post-Punk, Experimental Rock) PiL - Metal Box (Post-Punk, Experimental Rock) Iggy Pop - The Idiot (Art Rock, Post-Punk) The Smiths - The Queen Is Dead (Indie Pop, Post-Punk) Television - Marquee Moon (Art Punk, Art Rock...) This Heat - Deceit (Experimental Rock, Post-Punk) Xiu Xiu - Knife Play (Experimental Rock, Synth Punk) I've seen an album like The Cure's Disintegration, which I love, described as Post-Punk, but while it intersects with punk, it isn't how I think of it. Many of my favourite bands and artists have had punk elements and been influenced by punk, such as Swans and Cardiacs and Jon Zorn as well as the mentioned This Heat, which I don't think of as that punk). I did a punk appreciation topic: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=122918" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=122918 Ended up having to moderate myself, hide a couple of my posts and for penance punish my ears with painful punky Crunk for having channeled my inner punk too much. If only it was so easy to channel my inner genius.... ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Various music I am very into: a youtube playlist with two tracks per act |
Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: April 23 2022 at 11:38
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green day - american idiot. ------------- Bez pierdolenia sygnał zerwie, to w realia wychodź w hełmie! |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: April 23 2022 at 14:33
My mentioning the "diverse" is just to point at different sub-genre possibilities, it's not meant as a requirement. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: April 23 2022 at 14:51
When I got the idea for this thread, I didn't really imagine that I have in my collection and am fond of so many albums which at least on RYM are considered to be "Punk". Knowing that makes me glad. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: April 23 2022 at 20:56
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Just for variety, some fine hardcore punk albums I love from the 80s: MDC | Millions of Dead Cops - only about 20 minutes long but it has me on the edge of my seat. The vocals are the best part, mirroring and amplifying the music with urgent and angry rants against police brutality (they were a band from Texas with a gay lead singer - use your imagination as to how they were treated) and other redneck concerns Conflict | Increase the Pressure — British punks and friends of Crass, but quite a bit faster and louder, and just as political. Bands that play this loud and fast really have to work hard to get emotions like this across, and not that many could really pull it off Minor Threat | Complete Discography- here’s another band that could. They’ve generously put everything they released on a single CD (still in print, on their own label, Dischord), so it’s easy to obtain and essential hardcore listening. ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: April 24 2022 at 04:58
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Another book, with much relevance for the American Punk in the 80's, is Our Band Could Be Your Life. Scenes from the American Indie Underground 1981-1991 (2001) by Michael Azerrad. It consists of very extensive profiles of 13 bands, including Black Flag, Hüsker Dü, Minor Threat, Fugazi, The Minutemen and Mission of Burma. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: April 24 2022 at 13:50
The large degree of diversity in my own Punk collection is almost accidental, even I in my whole music collection always have aimed at as much diversity as possible - and yet, Progressive Rock (broadly defined) of course being the very core of my interest. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: April 25 2022 at 02:04
great ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: April 25 2022 at 03:18
I would argue that The Jam were never true punk, but if they were they stopped being it from All Mod Cons.
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Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: April 25 2022 at 05:55
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I have little liking for the period, but Joy Division's Closer is at least worth mentioning. ------------- 
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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: April 25 2022 at 07:15
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As for true punk I've hardly even got a favorite album. But I see lots of stuff I like being posted here by others, that mostly fit better in New Wave/Goth-rock/hardcore and everything else often thought of as post-punk. Love tons of that stuff. But I feel more like posting a few "punky" songs from albums I generally enjoy that rarely gets a mention: These guys were great, wether under the Athletico Spizz, Spizzenergi (etc..)-moniker Lara Logic was way better without the X-Ray Specs Their early stuff is all wonderful ------------- 
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Posted By: The Anders
Date Posted: April 25 2022 at 07:36
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Here's an attempt at making a list of my favourite "punk" albums, but most of it is more like proto punk, post punk, new wave or just musically related to punk in some way. The Velvet Underground: The Velvet Underground and Nico + White Light White Heat Iggy Pop: Raw Power + The Idiot + Lust For Life The Shaggs: Philosophy of the World Philemon Arthur and the Dung: Philemon Arthur and the Dung Television: Marquee Moon The Sex Pistols: Never Mind the Bollocks, Here's the Sex Pistols Talking Heads: More Songs About Buildings and Food + Fear of Music + Remain in Light The Police: Zenyatta Mondatta + Synchronicity The Clash: The Clash + London Calling + Sandinista! Sods: Minutes to Go Kliché: Supertanker + Okay Okay Boys Sort Sol: Everything That Rises Must Converge + Flow My Firetear Idles: Brutalism
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Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: April 25 2022 at 08:39
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If punk (or metal for that matter) wanted to be loved by me, it should sound like this album: |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: April 25 2022 at 09:09
Anyway, I'm glad to see this attempt. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: April 25 2022 at 10:17
Here's the ultimate protopunk-tune - from 1966... and it's another "no" Lyrics-wise. -------------
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Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: April 25 2022 at 14:44
------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: Stressed Cheese
Date Posted: April 29 2022 at 10:08
| Years ago I got really into the Ramones' first 4 albums, and they remain some of my favorite albums to this day (don't care for anything they've done afterwards). Once every few years they're all I listen to for like a week or two and then I get burned out on them. Outside of that the only punk album in my collection is The Offspring's Ixnay on the Hombre. A very fun pop punk album. I'm planning to get some Fugazi CDs in the near-future though. |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: April 29 2022 at 13:10
One more discovery in my collection of what on RYM is considered to be a Punk album: Shellac (USA) - At Action Park (Post-Hardcore, 1994) What do you think of that, Lewian? ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: April 29 2022 at 16:54
Fugazi's Repeater is something quite else than The Ramones and Pop Punk.  ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: April 30 2022 at 04:31
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Shellac (USA) - At Action Park (Post-Hardcore, 1994) Actually, this album is very interesting in relation to Progressive Rock, as it can be also labeled "Math Rock", and thus is an exmple of the closeness and even commonship that can be found between some of Punk and Prog.  ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: April 30 2022 at 09:36
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Do the Buzzcocks apply? ------------- "It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: April 30 2022 at 09:56
Their early albums are classified as Punk Rock on RYM (and highly rated). ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: April 30 2022 at 09:59
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Nothing to see here. |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: April 30 2022 at 10:21
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Knowing me, knowing you. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: April 30 2022 at 16:16
But what do you mean? ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Tuzvihar
Date Posted: April 30 2022 at 16:59
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Nowa Aleksandria by Siekiera Post-Punk/Cold Wave, Poland, 1986 ------------- "Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent." Charles Bukowski |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: May 01 2022 at 14:27
Didn't know that one but like it a lot, thanks for pointing me to it!
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Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: May 01 2022 at 14:29
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It actually reminds me a bit of the less polished Shudder To Think work. |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: May 01 2022 at 14:31
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As the majority seems to agree that punk is more than just punk, what about Nirvana by the way? If they count, they're surely among the best. (But then a whole lot of other stuff may want to get in, too.) |
Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: May 01 2022 at 14:44
That is like saying the majority seems to agree that prog is more than just prog. I think it is more a recognition that as the years have gone on punk has evolved and broadened, and encompasses a wider variety of sounds that share a similar aesthetic or ethos as the original punk artists. So, just as some people will argue until the cows have stepped over dead horses on their way home, flogging them until they are blue in the face, that prog begins and ends with music that sounds like the symphonic prog of the ‘70s, some will as narrowly define punk. Nirvana are readily acknowledged and recognised as punk. I’ve probably heard them described as punk more than any other label. I haven’t checked, but I bet Wiki describes their music as punk. Not that I’m using wiki as an accurate reference, but rather a popular reference. When Wiki gets facts wrong, it tends to be because it goes by popular knowledge and understanding. ------------- https://tinyurl.com/nickhnz-tpa" rel="nofollow - Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: May 01 2022 at 14:50
Of course if I write things up like this, it's 50% about winding people up who take genre definitions too seriously in my view.
Still for me there are good reasons to define punk more narrowly than prog, as the term punk used to refer to a pretty specific movement (OK this might be challenged looking at who used it before it took that shape), whereas prog as a genre label was put post hoc on a set of things that was at that point already quite heterogeneous. |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: May 01 2022 at 14:56
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I do realise by the way that we're repeating ourselves. But anyway, if I see it correctly, Nirvana hadn't been mentioned before in this thread, which would surprise me if people agreed on them being punk, because I find it hard to imagine that nobody here appreciates them. Of course it may be just my weird taste that makes me like them, but we're talking about a band that is seen as top influential class act all over the place.
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Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: May 01 2022 at 15:18
It could well be that no one else here likes them (as much) as you do, I love a whole lot of the bands that tend to be grouped together as “grunge” (even though they sound nothing like each other, and tend to all come from different genres, backgrounds and influences. I love Alice In Chains, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam and Screaming Trees, to name some of the other big names of that period and geographic area, as well as a lot of lesser known bands. But I have to admit, I’ve never got on with Nirvana, and like very little of their material. And, yes, we are definitely repeating ourselves! 😄🤪 (And so, yes, I knew you were saying it mostly tongue-in-cheek. 😜) However, as you yourself admit, the punk movement came after punk was already used to describe the music. Music had been described as punk before their was an image/fashion/movement that was associated with that music. And even once that aspect of punk took off, and had punk become more than just the music, there were still punk bands that were not associated with that image/fashion/movement. To me, to conflate the punk movement with punk music (which existed before, and long after said movement) is denying a fair portion of pubk history. To keep to the prog analogy, it’s like saying that prog music was not just from a certain place and time, but also only really applies to those who had at least one member of the band that wore a cape on stage. Yes, I’m extracting the urine a little. But if you can, so can I! 🤪 ------------- https://tinyurl.com/nickhnz-tpa" rel="nofollow - Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: May 01 2022 at 15:25
Nirvana is mainly considered to be Grunge, but In Utero sounds quite punky to me, and is an album I like a lot.
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: May 01 2022 at 15:42
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Grunge is a media made label, that pretty much none of the bands labelled as such, and very few of the fans of those bands, use. So I don’t really believe that Nirvana are mainly considered to be grunge. But even if they do, grunge (as definitely by the media that coined the term) is a fusion of metal and punk, which pretty much means even if people use the term grunge, they are still associating the band with punk music. Now, obviously, all musical labels and genres are somewhat arbitrary creations imposed retrospectively. The signified has always existed before the signifier is assigned to it. But some labels and genres are more arbitrary than others, and they tend to be the ones given by the media. Krautrock is one, and Grunge is another. There is a huge difference in sound and style between various Krautrock artists, and the same with grunge. In both cases, the labels were bestowed upon music from a particular geographic area in a somewhat derogatory and pejorative manner, initially as nothing more than a joke. But that joke somehow stuck, and became a genre label. But anyone who thinks all Krautrock bands play the same style of music, or sound similar, clearly hasn’t listened to much Krautrock. It’s more of a cross-genre grouping, than a genre in itself. (And yes, I know I am going to invite a lot of argument, but hey, no change there….) The same can be said for grunge. It started out as a joke by the media because the bands all looked grungy. It wasn’t even about their sound, so much as their appearance, initially. But when pushed to try and make a genre out of the joke, the metal meets punk explanation somehow evolved. It’s about as accurate as stating all the “grunge” bands have something in common apart from their geography. But within that mass of Seattle bands called grunge, Nirvana certainly stood out as being more of a punk band than a metal band, if you really had to take that punk/metal fusion thing seriously. ------------- https://tinyurl.com/nickhnz-tpa" rel="nofollow - Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: May 01 2022 at 19:18
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Inner City Unit. Here a few example tracks from four different albums: -------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Necrotica
Date Posted: May 01 2022 at 19:28
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Not sure if I've commented on this thread before (and I'm too lazy to check, lol). Anyway, here are some of my favorites: At the Drive-In - Relationship of Command (post-hardcore) Bad Religion - Suffer (melodic hardcore) L7 - Bricks Are Heavy (technically grunge, but a very punk-based form of it) Rise Against - The Sufferer and the Witness (melodic hardcore) Off Minor - The Heat Death of the Universe (screamo, jazz punk) Refused - The Shape of Punk to Come (post-hardcore) Against Me! - Transgender Dysphoria Blues (punk, folk-punk) Helmet - Strap It On (alt-metal, but with a heavy post-hardcore influence) Big Black - Songs About f**king (post-hardcore, noise rock) Minor Threat - Out of Step (hardcore punk) And if we count metallic hardcore/mathcore: The Dillinger Escape Plan - Calculating Infinity (mathcore) Converge - All We Love We Leave Behind (metalcore, hardcore punk) Botch - We Are the Romans (metallic hardcore, metalcore) Earth Crisis - Destroy the Machines (hardcore punk, metalcore) Cave In - Until Your Heart Stops (metalcore, metallic hardcore) Every Time I Die - Hot Damn! (metalcore, hardcore punk)
------------- Take me down, to the underground Won't you take me down, to the underground Why oh why, there is no light And if I can't sleep, can you hold my life https://www.youtube.com/@CocoonMasterBrendan-wh3sd |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: May 01 2022 at 21:44
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The Sebadoh song “Gimme Indie Rock!” Is a humorous take on how punk/hardcore evolved into early 90s stuff like Nirvana, Mudhoney, Pearl Jam, etc. Basically, the punks started smoking pot and playing slower songs. ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: Gameoverluke
Date Posted: May 04 2022 at 21:00
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Pennywise - Full Circle Nofx - Punk in Drublic Bad Religion - Suffer |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: May 05 2022 at 02:47
fine, and my welcome to you on PA forums, Luke ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: May 05 2022 at 03:14
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I view UK Punk as a reaction to a social gvt (the UK were dominated by labour in the 70's - with the communists getting a sensible share of the votes), albeit understandable, because the country was politcally & economically blocked. The punks wanted opportunity (find their place in the sun), and I'm relatively certain that a lot of them voted Tory (Paul Weller of The Jam certainly admitted to it), maybe even fascist. You got to remember that a lot of punk-followers were middle class playing bad dudes with money to spend (on clothes, notably - Westwood/McLaren shops) - not unemployement kids sharing the slums with the immigrants. What they probably didn't bargain for, is the Maggie Bitcher shock, though. [/QUOTE] I think that is a bit wide of the mark, Hugues. While it is true that UK punk was anti establishment, and by extension anti the government of the day, it wasn't explicitly anti Labour Party (which was more centre left than socialist). In the early days some punks wore bits of nazi regalia to shock the older generation, but when far right parties like the National Front started trying to recruit at punk gigs organisations like the Anti Nazi League and Rock Against Racism sprang up almost immediately and had massive support from punk bands and fans. It's true that the punk bands had more diverse backgrounds than some of them liked to admit, with a good number of middle class students adopting unconvincing working class accents, but most of the key members of The Clash and The Sex Pistols really did grow up in working class London households. ------------- 'Like so many of you I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
Posted By: Cosmiclawnmower
Date Posted: May 05 2022 at 14:50
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My experience of 'Punk' was through bands like Crass, Poison Girls, Discharge, Disorder, The Mob.. and a lot of squat benefit gigs etc. It wasnt for the faint hearted and not an easy listen but i made some good friends who didnt judge me because i liked other types of music. It was the political message and the sheer anger at the injustice of the times that moved me but inevitably it became very negative and destructive and i lost a couple of friends to drugs and suicide. Ive always loved the Damned who are the only one of the '77' UK punk bands ive got any time for. Once all the bullsh*t and hype of the Sex Pistols and Clash died down lots of excellent music came out and revitalized a moribund music scene of all forms.. Nobody's mentioned Motorhead??  And the pre-punk 75/76 London 'Pub rock' scene with bands like Ducks deluxe, Nick Lowe, Ian Drury, the Motors, Eddie and the Hotrods etc.. some super straight ahead rock n roll
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Posted By: BarryGlibb
Date Posted: May 05 2022 at 23:01
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My favourite album of all time by a punk band is the 1980 album The Absolute Game by Skids....an Absolute Masterpiece IMHO. It actually defies a genre description...even though Skids were originally a punk band The Absolute Game is unique; I cannot think of an album that comes close to being similar by any other artist.  |