Eloy or the Flower Kings
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics related to progressive music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=131513
Printed Date: August 09 2025 at 12:21
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Eloy or the Flower Kings
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Subject: Eloy or the Flower Kings
Date Posted: August 19 2023 at 15:36
I'm not sure why the idea of having these two going against each other was going through my head today but there it is. 
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Replies:
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: August 19 2023 at 15:37
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Eloy by far. I find TFK's music rather tedious these days.
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Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: August 19 2023 at 16:23
| Don't care for TFK's at all. Have not heard enough Eloy to have an opinion, so no vote. |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: August 19 2023 at 17:27
You know, not too long after I created this poll I realized I probably should have included another option like "not familiar enough with both bands" or something to that effect. I like to have as many people vote as possible.
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Grumpyprogfan wrote:Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: August 19 2023 at 18:17
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Eloy were my favourite band for some years as a teenager. Even though over the years I have become much more critical about some aspects of their music, they still have a special place in my heart, particularly their rhythm section with Matze and Rosenthal/Randow. I don't care much for TFK. |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: August 19 2023 at 21:05
| Both are good bands, at least in my book. Hard to choose. Depending on the mood I am, I could go either way. |
Posted By: Octopus II
Date Posted: August 20 2023 at 03:36
| I voted for Eloy. |
Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: August 20 2023 at 04:24
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Flower kings are crap lol ------------- All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock. |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: August 20 2023 at 04:52
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Eloy by a considerable margin, tbh... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: August 20 2023 at 04:56
that was brutal
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Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: August 20 2023 at 05:00
I think this has probably confirmed my arrested development... I'm 55 and like Rush, they are still one of my faves... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: August 20 2023 at 05:06
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Eloy ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: suitkees
Date Posted: August 20 2023 at 08:49
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Eloy, because. The Flower Kings have always left me completely indifferent. ------------- The razamataz is a pain in the bum |
Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: August 20 2023 at 11:15
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Like both, but Eloy has a better overall discography. I endeavor to stick algebra in my nose. ------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: August 20 2023 at 14:06
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Eloy, every day and all day on Sunday. I don't own a single TFK/Stolt album because I got rid of them. Roine's a good guitarist, but I just can't get into his music. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: August 20 2023 at 16:19
| Eloy for sure but imo TFK are a great symph prog band. I actually prefer their more recent stuff (By Royal Decree and Banks Of Eden) over their late 90's early 00's stuff which is very inconsistent in my view. Roine is incredibly talented. However there is only one Eloy, no one has replicated what they do at least nowhere near as good. |
Posted By: Moonshake
Date Posted: August 20 2023 at 16:22
| The Flower Kings. |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: August 20 2023 at 17:25
Pink Floyd? Ok, I guess maybe it's the other way around.
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Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: August 20 2023 at 18:17
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Eloy, never liked TFK ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 20 2023 at 18:38
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Eloy for Inside and Floating especially. ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: August 20 2023 at 19:59
If not for those two I'd vote for The Flower Kings. While they have very inconsistent albums I do keep one around and it's the live Meet The Flower Kings and if you don't think these guys have chops or can't play in that heavier, darker style check out Circus Brimstone from it. But for the most part their albums are too long and inconsistent in my opinion. ------------- "The wind is slowly tearing her apart" "Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
Posted By: mathman0806
Date Posted: August 20 2023 at 20:04
Yeah. I'm 56 and Rush was one of the first bands that I was really into and still one of my faves too. |
Posted By: mathman0806
Date Posted: August 20 2023 at 20:07
| Voted for Eloy. Everything I listened to FK, I usually feel like I consumed empty calories of prog. It just passed through one end and came up out the other with nothing of substance. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 21 2023 at 00:08
Thanks, John. This is the most engaged I have been with The Flower Kings. ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: August 21 2023 at 01:13
I think there's this underlying feeling amongst some proggers that Eloy and Rush are bands you might have liked in your youth as you were getting into prog, but you grow out of as your prog tastes become more sophisticated and you discover more intricate things to listen to.... in this regard with the passing of time, I never did become any more sophisticated... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: b_olariu
Date Posted: August 21 2023 at 01:35
Eloy |
Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: August 21 2023 at 04:51
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TFK by far.
I don't think so. What actually is crap is your taste.
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Posted By: Olape
Date Posted: August 21 2023 at 07:37
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ELOY, all the time. ------------- 
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Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: August 21 2023 at 13:54
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I really like Eloy but I LOVE The Flower Kings!!! ------------- The Prog Corner |
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: August 21 2023 at 14:29
I agree with dr prog, so my tastes are crap also. Cool, so now I know why participation in my polls are dismal.
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: August 21 2023 at 14:36
| ^We all like what we like. It shouldn't be a contest. ;) |
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: August 21 2023 at 14:41
^Yet all polls are a contest. No? 
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Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: August 21 2023 at 15:32
Say what now?
------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: August 21 2023 at 15:44
To each his own, although u are horribly wrong to the nth degree . The Flower Kings Appreciation Thread on PA is 486 pages long.....Does Eloy even have an appreciation thread?  -------------   
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: August 21 2023 at 15:48
That does not mean they're better, just more popular.
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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: August 22 2023 at 12:20
They are popular because more people like them, so mo betta'! Besides "better" in music is highly subjective to even what does "better" mean in music??.......Popular is concrete. -------------
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: August 22 2023 at 12:36
yes, you're right, "better" is subjective. TFK has more pages because they're more popular, better known I guess, than Eloy.
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 22 2023 at 12:38
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^^ I wonder how many of those posts int that thread were made by you? I got the impression that it's a relatively small group of people (or groups because it has been going since 2009) who post in that topic a lot. If you look at rateyourmusic, The Flower King's most rated album, Stardust We Are, has 744 ratings and 21 reviews. Eloy's most rated, Ocean, has 2,489 and 61 reviews. Eloy has five albums with over 1000 ratings each. https://rateyourmusic.com/artist/the-flower-kings" rel="nofollow - https://rateyourmusic.com/artist/the-flower-kings https://rateyourmusic.com/artist/eloy" rel="nofollow - https://rateyourmusic.com/artist/eloy Neither are top ranked/ rated players in Prog or progressive music, and I agree with AFlowerKingEloy, oops, that it shouldn't be a contest. I don't treat these polls as contests. ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: August 22 2023 at 13:22
Yes, but just because I like band A better than band B doesn't mean band A is actually better. It's just my opinion. No matter how much I scream and jump up and down I won't change your opinion and vice versa.
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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: August 22 2023 at 13:34
I think I made 6 posts there ........I prefer TFK over Eloy, but I prefer Ocean over a lot of TFK albums. I would bet a lot of the posters on that thread are no longer even active on PA anymore  -------------
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: August 22 2023 at 13:42
AFlowerKingEloy? Ok, Login.
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 22 2023 at 14:10
Six, sure. It's sad that so many have left the forums. But 14 years of that thread.... By the way, beyond the having had very frequent posters there issue, I was thinking that one thing that TFK has going for it has been that there has been a lot of talk there about expected albums and new album, but I just looked more into Eloy's discography and I see that they have released four album since 2009, the year the TFK appreciation thread started. I had heard about one of those at least, But Eloy is really thought of for its 70s album by most, which make it old news (I won't posit if Eloy are has-beens, but looking at the ratings at RYM for modern Eloy they don't look amazing). I'm much more of an Inside and Floating amn* than Ocean, but than I tend to favour the more psych/space music to Symph.^ makes me think of Baron Harkonnen from the Lynch version of Dune. "Bring in that floating fat man, the Baron" (The Emperor) since I am recalling childhood fave sci-fi films.
^ Just a playful joke, of course, on the subject of band recognition. While I love Logan's Run, and that was a reason I kept to the username (been using it since 2001), my first user name was Login Name as the site had asked me for a login name, and then I shortened it to Login, and then corrupted it to Logan as a homage to Logan's Run as well as a an adaptation of my earlier username. had it asked me for a username, then I might have gone User Name, User, and then The Abuser, which probably would not have been a good name to keep and possibly a trigger for some. Maybe the UZer here as a homage to Univers Zero. "We've all been used." "And re-used." "And abused!" "And amused." (from Zardoz, another dystopian childhood fave of mine) ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: August 22 2023 at 14:23
I'm just poking fun at you for stating it's not a contest but is in actuality a sort of contest, but it's not. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: August 22 2023 at 14:33
However, wouldn't it be a more accurate comparison to use their entire discographies? Eloy has been around a lot longer and more votes for albums skew towards albums from the 1970s. There is a 24 year difference between Eloy's debut and TFK's debut. If TFK's earlier albums were given another 24 years, they may eventually reach similar numbers of votes. For that reason I think it would make more sense to take the number of votes and multiply it by the rating for each studio album. Take that total across the entire discography and divide it by the number of total votes. Ignoring soundtracks, compilations, and fan club releases, you'll find that Eloy's total rating is 3.55 and TFK's is 3.54. Essentially the two groups, according to RYM voters, are about the same in quality. If Eloy had not made the Ra (2.84) and Destination (2.76) albums, their rating would increase to 3.58. TFK's lowest rated album is Adam & Eve at 3.33. Eloy clearly had the better peak of the two bands, but the tail end of their career has some significant lows (a range of 2.76 to 3.71 across the whole discography). TFK doesn't have a comparable peak, but it's not a slouch in that department either (first four are over 3.60). TFK excels in consistency (3.33 to 3.68). A graph would show this better, but I don't have the means or the time to make these. Just some food for thought. ------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: August 22 2023 at 14:40
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Mike's next poll will feature Mr. Bungle "going against" Philip Glass. It should be interesting! ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: August 22 2023 at 14:55
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One band has the Power and the Passion and the other band has the Flower Power. The end result? It's Time to Turn to Eloy, so the final score is... Krauts 2 Swedes 1
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: August 22 2023 at 15:25
No, it will be Camel vs Dream Theater.
To me the style doesn't really matter much. It's more about what I consider to be a "fair fight." |
Posted By: Mormegil
Date Posted: August 22 2023 at 15:45
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Both - either one depends on my mood. ------------- Welcome to the middle of the film. |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: August 22 2023 at 15:54
 ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: August 22 2023 at 15:55
Bah. Easy.  ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 22 2023 at 16:06
I was thinking specifically of what band is more popular as in better-known, but yes, It would be better to look at the whole discography and then I would count the number of unique raters (in other words, a user would only be counted once no matter how many albums they rated -- rather like with the The Flower King Appreciation thread, I would sooner count number of people who participated than pages if I could be arsed). I addressed in my last post that post Eloy classic era it does not get much recognition. It's modern albums have far less than spectacular numbers of raters and the ratings are not high. Like a lot of Prog bands, Eloy is really known (in Prog circles) for its classic 70s period. I would be very surprised if The Flower Kings is as well-known a name as Eloy in 10 years or more despite that sadly, many Eloy admirers will pass away in the next ten years. I don't think either band are that impressive in terms of numbers at RYM. Look at a much more modern band included in PA like King Gizzard & The Lizard Wizard and how many ratings it has accrued in the past 11 years: https://rateyourmusic.com/artist/king-gizzard-and-the-lizard-wizard" rel="nofollow - https://rateyourmusic.com/artist/king-gizzard-and-the-lizard-wizard I doubt The Flower Kings will ever reach those kinds of numbers there even if they start releasing five albums a year. Or my beloved Swans, which did release its first album 12 years before The Flower Kings first in 1983, but looking at the 2010 up period, The Flower Kings top rated Banks of Eden has 471 ratings, it's next most has 341. With Swans for the same period, the most rated has 26,683 ratings, then the next highest in that period has 20,638. It only has one other alnum that has more than 20,000 ratings. But that does not mean that much for PA as Swans may be much more popular at RYM, but one is lucky if a thread on it here can get several pages of responses and its not that popular in our database (I did a poll earlier today with it as an option that got zero responses). So ideally the numbers are parsed from many sources and we have to consider coverage in the press over the years. The RYM and PA audiences overlap, but alos have significant differences. One should not draw too many conclusions on general popularity from a very limited number of sources. While I would have thought that Eloy would be niche, I would have thought The Flower Kings to be very niche. ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: projeKct
Date Posted: August 22 2023 at 16:29
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I'm a big fan of TFK, not so much of Eloy. So in the last few days, I have listened to Eloy albums from 1971 to 1982 and discovered a nice band. There are several nice moments throughout Eloy's discography, but nothing earth-shattering. As of now, I have two favorite albums: Ocean and Colours. The rest is "OK".
About TFK, all of their albums from 1995 to 2013 are at least excellent (with many masterpieces). After that, new albums became less surprising, only "good". So, to my ears, TFK win this poll easily. |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: August 22 2023 at 17:23
I probably started posting there maybe 10yrs ago? Sheesh....how time flies. But yea sad that so many have left..... Dune, love that movie.....the second part is coming out soon, the reissue version that is. I liked that version as well..... -------------
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: August 22 2023 at 17:49
Wow. I had no idea. I was just joking about Login. I didn't know you actually used that as a name. Too wild.
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: August 22 2023 at 17:50
You know LaBrie and the boys don't stand a chance right?
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Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: August 22 2023 at 18:40
No Moore. No Dominici. Roll credits. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: August 22 2023 at 22:10
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Re The Flower Kings, have to keep pointing out (because their fans are in de nile lol) that their most rated and also highest rated album on here is Banks Of Eden. The earlier stuff is all over the shop and none is a masterpeice because Roine had no idea where the edit button is. I think there is a big disconnect between what their fans think and what general prog fans think and i am only going on what the reviews on this site suggest. Maybe that's normal. Eloy are very conistently highly rated between 1973 and 1982 which was easily their classic period before a big drop with 83's Performance coming back well in the 90's with a nice couple of albums.Their recent albums are a bit divisive it seems. Both bands seem to suffer from the fact that they people are sceptical about their later output but for me both are still hitting high standards.
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Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: August 23 2023 at 04:31
That all seems like fair points to me. It's interesting to look at both bands on PA and compare that with RYM. Because PA has a more dedicated "prog fan" base, those later albums tend to have more ratings than on RYM. And some of the more recent releases by both bands are showing higher ratings here on PA than on RYM. If we graphed the ratings, the graph would look a little more "bouncy" than on RYM. I actually like some of Eloy's more recent efforts, though I'd be more inclined to label them as a "crossover/neo-prog" sound with space rock leanings (with a penchant for Jeanne d'Arc topics) than the actual space rock they were more known for in the 1970s. I agree that TFK may never have the same amount of ratings that Eloy has had. It seems that is a common problem among retro prog bands. Having said that, I'm still an admirer of such bands, though nowadays I balance that out with my growing interest in avant-prog, which often has very few ratings, both at PA and at RYM (with some exceptions like Henry Cow, This Heat, etc.). ------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: August 23 2023 at 07:03
| Eloy easily. I haven't heard recent stuff by TFK but I'm guessing that it's better than the last couple of Eloy albums :) |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: August 25 2023 at 02:35
And I bet the last couple of Eloy albums are better than the last couple of Yes albums.
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Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: August 25 2023 at 03:36
Eloy: Visionary (2009) 3 Stars Yes: Fly From Here (2011) 2 Stars I've not ventured any further with either band, although I have to say Eloy's 'Reincarnation On Stage' is very good indeed.... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Moyan
Date Posted: April 16 2024 at 22:27
| Eloy by miles. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: April 17 2024 at 16:29
Floyd are a definite influence on Eloy. Frank Bonnermann's guitar tone and style is very Gilmouresque to say the least and he did rip off the main refrain on SOYCD for Silent Cries and Mighty Echoes (plus the last song on Time To Turn is a blatant rip off of Wish You Were Here). However no pointing trying to compare good ole ploddy Nick Mason to a Jurgen Rosenthal or anything bass wise to the genius playing of Klaus Peter Matziol on the albums Ocean through to Time To Turn. Eloy were an incredible technical band, not everyone's taste I know but there are about 15 albums of Eloy I want to listen to compared to about 4 or 5 at a push for Floyd. That said I would still rate both bands in my all time fave 10 prog bands. Floyd were the classic quality over quantity band if ever there was.
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Posted By: charles_ryder
Date Posted: May 11 2024 at 13:06
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They are just like an elephant and the little dog. Elephant is the Eloy. Imho. ------------- om mani padme hum |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: May 11 2024 at 13:24
When I think of an elephant, I am more likely to think of The Flower Kings. :)  ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: TheGazzardian
Date Posted: May 13 2024 at 10:34
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Voted for TFK. Honestly I'm pretty 'meh' on both bands. Eloy I tried a couple albums and don't remember a thing about what they sounded like - maybe I need to try a different one, but they made no impact. TFK, I really really loved Space Revolver, which was my first album by them, I still listen to tracks from it today. I've tried a bunch of their other albums in the time since and most have at best one song that stands out to me while listening to the album, then fade from memory. There are some good songs I can still call to mind. "Serious Dreamers", "World of Adventure", 'Love is the only answer" ... ok, that's the whole list. Despite streaming every new album they release as it comes out. They're a fine band. But they just have so much output. I still wonder if I'll ever connect with anything they do as much as I did Space Revolver. Was that one just more to my tastes than the others? Or did I just listen to it in the short window where that type of music resonated with me? tl;dr don't really love either band, but at least have some tuns I dig from TFK.
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: May 13 2024 at 13:18
I never heard Time to Turn but as far as SC&ME goes I always thought early on in the album the bass sounded a lot like "Sheep." I never heard any similarities to WYWH but maybe I should listen more closely. As an aside I'm guessing that those 4 or 5 PF albums for you are Meddle, DSOTM, WYWH, Animals and maybe (the fifth one) the Wall.
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: May 13 2024 at 16:08
SC&ME also brings a bit of ELP and Tangerine Dream into the equation. They never directly copy. Colours then starts with something that could be on an APP album. Very derivative band Eloy although I never minded that much obviously. Correct on tghe PF albums 1. Animals 2. WYWH 3. DSOTM 4. Meddle 5. The Wall 6. ??? no idea after my initial 5 picks. I don't own that many. I should perhaps try and listen to Atom Heart Mother and Obscured By Clouds more than I do (although I only own the latter of the 2)
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: May 13 2024 at 16:27
| ^Atom Heart Mother is one of my favorites and is very underrated imo. OBC is ok but maybe best for later. I also suggest listening to their very first one called Piper At The Gates of Dawn. I guess it's easy to call it a psychedelic album but there's also a lot of hints as to what was to come as far as taking the music further and I have no problem calling it a psych influenced proto prog album although it's actually often considered to be possibly the first space rock album which is also quite possible. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: May 15 2024 at 15:30
| ^ yep might give that a listen at some point. |