An objective review of an album you don't like?
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Topic: An objective review of an album you don't like?
Posted By: SteveG
Subject: An objective review of an album you don't like?
Date Posted: February 09 2024 at 06:43
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Back in the 90s, I obtained Echolyn's album "Suffocating The Bloom". As an American neo prog band, I was excited to see what they were about. I was less excited after listening to it. The album had too many references to Gentle Giant's musical motifs for my taste. And I never cared for Gentle Giant, despite their originality. So, all these years later, I gave "Suffocating The Bloom" another listen hoping to write an objective review but I'm struggling. Any suggestions on writing one for this or any other album that doesn't move you? ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Replies:
Posted By: wiz_d_kidd
Date Posted: February 09 2024 at 07:17
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Imagine yourself as a producer and/or mixing engineer charged with sculpting the overall sound of this album. You listen to the first few takes and, being unhappy with it, you decide to make some changes that you think would make the album stand out. What is it you would change to make it more enjoyable to you and, presumably, others? The vocals? Are they too sappy? Too many runs? What? What about the music, the composition, the execution? How would you change it to give it more punch (or relaxation if that's what you want)? Does it lack dynamics? Is it mixed to flat? What? Is the composition too simple and trite? Too repetitive? What? Then, knowing specifically what it is about the album that fails to move you, you should be in a position to write about that. Telling people "This album failed to move me BECAUSE..." is a fair criticism, rather than just saying "This album sucks", which everyone agrees is unfair. So, you're the producer and the mixing engineer... What would you change to make it more enjoyable (to you)? I did this once for the album Grimspound, by Big Big Train -- an album which failed to move me. You can read the review here: http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=1940239. ------------- "Instrumental music is an expression that words can never capture." -- Peter Baumann |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: February 09 2024 at 07:49
Hi, In my book, a "review" is not about "like" or "not like". It is a chance for you to look at the music with different eyes, than others. The main issue these days, is that too many reviews are slanted so bad, that we have lost the ability to be objective, and appreciating of someone else's creativity. Look, you may not like Picasso, or he doesn't do a thing for you, but sitting here and write a review of this or that as bad and ridiculous, will make you look very bad and in the wrong place. In the arts, there is no right or wrong ... and you have to accept that and get off the idea of "favorites" altogether, because as a reviewer, in the end, it is ALL about the differences that make the art. I was not, at the start, a lover of Gentle Giant at all ... it didn't click in my head, and one day, somehow, it was like ... this is neat ... and good ... and one thing you can NEVER DENY is that their musicianship was out of this world. I had a very similar reaction to Henry Cow and the family of those musicians. At first they sound way too academic for my tastes ... change this note on the staff ... there you do ... dissonance to show musically or sing! It may not be for you, however, if you can not even find the outstanding musicianship and the clever and far out creativity in Gentle Giant, then their music is not for you and you have to go back to the simplistic 4/4 and methodology of the same thing with various formulas for 85% of all rock music out there ... maybe in that beach of sand, you will find a grain that is a different color to write about ... at which point GG would be a much more attractive decision. There are reviews (check out those Ebert movie things) where the guys don't agree, BUT THEY TELL YOU WHY, and that makes the whole thing more objective. But, one thing ... YOU HAVE TO BE HONEST. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
SteveG wrote:Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: February 09 2024 at 07:52
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Everything is subjective - musicianship, production, song crafting, etc. The only objective thing a review could state is, the time signature, the key its in, and maybe if the vocalist is pitchy. And that Echolyn album is awesome, so maybe you should pass on a review. 
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: February 09 2024 at 07:59
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My advice would be to just abstain from rating or reviewing it if you know that you just hate everything that others appreciate the release for. Or set up a reminder to listen to it again in a year (could be a good feature at AP). For example, I've seen really low ratings/reviews for KGatLW's PetroDragonic Apocalypse. The release is currently #11 for 2023 at RYM, with more than 10k ratings. If you think it's mediocre, that is a sign that you're not getting what's great about it. Sure, you can go ahead and give it a low rating - it's totally fine as long as it is your honest opinion. But be aware that this will cause some raised eyebrows
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: February 09 2024 at 08:04
Hi, I'm not sure any band these days, will hire a producer or a mixing engineer, as more than 75% of the stuff in albums of the year are self done at home with a DAW, that one can learn and work with. The days of a producer, or mixing engineer, are probably down to just a few, and you see really big groups take advantage of it all in order to sound way better, and cleaner than anyone else .... and this is the stuff that is not visible in the majority of the AOY and AOM stuff that is flying around ... a lot of it is "homemade" ... a typical apple pie with too much sugar, and some cinnamon on top! Same recipe! I think you have to look at the piece/pieces ... as people ... do you look at that girl at the beach and you name/number 10 things that make her better or worse than others? And when you realize that you are no longer making choices based on "preferences", all of a sudden the beach has many colored girls, and many different bathing suits and so on, and you ability to describe the feeling ends up all over the place ... it's all so neat and different and far out. I have always looked at a mixing engineer or producer, not as a "DIRECTOR" as in theater and film, although that idea almost fits, but in the end, their idea is not what the band, or the work is about. One can look at the history of the likes of George Martin, Tom Dowd, and a handful of others as making a difference, but in the end, the changes they made and the things they touched, NEVER took much away from the artist, with a couple of sad examples here and there with GM when some "hits" ended that person's career (so to speak) and they could never be like that again. But the 70's and the start of "PROGRESSIVE" was about the letting go of these extra folks and the more individualistic styles and touches that made the music special ... some might say that Eddie Offord made YES, but in the end, it was YES that made Eddie Offord. I'm not sure that as a producer/mixer person I can make it better "for me" ... because a lot of the band might not be comfortable with the difficult music/chord changes which would make them seem better educated musically than otherwise ... I always thought ... send these mixers and producers to the Sex Pimples, and just work on "knowing" what it is you want to do to tell your story ... it's your song ... not the producers, or the mixing engineer. Do you think PF, JT, and any of the top 5 or 6 would have made it without the ability to showcase their own work? They had the "secret" and a mixing goon, or producer doesn't ... he/she is not the band! PS" ... I like to look at Klaus Schulze, do this live playing and realizing that he is mixing his stuff LIVE while he is playing it. And he did not exactly look for a mixing person or producer, because he had the secret ... it was all inside him, and in his fingers, the minute he touched the keyboards. HOWEVER, there is an example in one of the LIsa's DVD's that adds a wee bit more ... one small sequence that you and I will never EVER find in the music that gets changed a little bit to sound "more complete" and "concrete" instead of a meandering accidental piece or set of notes his hand might have hit at the time, and lost in the playing! It's far out, in many ways ... but so far and away from us all, it's not funny!
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 09 2024 at 09:11
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 09 2024 at 10:00
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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: February 09 2024 at 10:07
Here's the opening of a two star rating of The Residents Mark of the Mole. What I love about it is pretty much what rubs Stefro (in a PA review) the wrong way. But I can understand where he's coming from, and this review is more useful to someone like Jared than my fivestar would be. "Possibly the least accessible album by one of the least accessible groups in the history of rock music, 'Mark Of The Mole' finds avant-garde jokers The Residents in dark, dissonant and disturbing form, spinning part of epic tale (which would continue on several follow-up albums though ultimately remain unfinished) regarding two warring factions of mole-like creatures who, after an unspecified natural disaster, find themselves forced into an uneasy co-existence with predictably disastrous consequences. Filled with a freakish palette of harsh, synthesized sounds..." -Actually it would be useful to me too, as I know I would have to check out an album like the one he's describing. *my actual hatred is reserved for other things than music I don't care for
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: February 09 2024 at 10:37
HI, That depends on many factors. IF, in between those 31 years, you heard 4654 different albums, your tastes now are very different than they were then. IF, in between those years you heard the same 6 bands, and the same top hits on the classical crap station, then ... your thoughts and ideas would likely not change over that time. You would be kinda stuck on one type of sound or style, and never really end up studying and learning something different, or feel anything different from any other band, or style. On the other hand, when one floats about saying they hear 200 albums a month, I'm not sure that specific person can, in the end, make much real sense of the music, since it is very likely that the listening is not as deep and dedicated as it should in order to be able to appreciate what the band is about. You, either dedicate your honesty to saying something cohesive and true, or you don't. And that should be the decision to write something or not. I tend to not write reviews, of films or music that are not "attractive" to a lot of my specific interests, but that does not mean I did not like the rest of the stuff ... it was just not clear enough for me, or had anything super within it for me to be able to review it ... although I tend to not review a lot of rock music and post it here, since the appreciation is way too much "fan oriented" and many of those comments are not something that any reviewer with a history will EVER bother with! For example, I have something like 150 film reviews in the big place, and no one has ever given me crap about it ... except one, where I had to correct the ... incorrect information which was not quite right time wise! By the time you have more than 600 reviews in foreign film, and 100 in rock music, it will be hard to not find something to review ... and if GG doesn't click for you ... so what ... write another review for something else!
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 09 2024 at 11:15
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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: February 09 2024 at 11:20
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: February 09 2024 at 11:25
| The objective part comes to any facts you have related to the album/music, your interpretation is what the meat of a review is and that is subjective. I suggest going for your experience and impressions and being true to it. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 09 2024 at 11:45
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Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: February 09 2024 at 11:55
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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: February 09 2024 at 12:00
Ok, nevermind. The reason "hate" snuck it's way into my post in the first place - although I don't hate music I don't like - was because I quoted Mike.
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Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: February 09 2024 at 12:12
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Another question that arises is if we should separate the art from the artist? I'd say yes but from what I've seen 99.9% of the reviewers all around the world ain't gonna do the separation. -------------
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 09 2024 at 12:36
Just kidding. But getting back to "negative" reviews, I've also listened to some music that somehow appealed to me in the reviewer's putdown. And was very happy I did!
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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: February 09 2024 at 12:44
It would maybe be difficult not to think about the artist behind the art if I felt like writing about an album by Bill Cosby or Burzum - or I suppose a contemporary superstar such as Taylor Swift. But that's not gonna happen anyway. I'm also quite certain SteveG will manage to separate the musical content on Suffocating the Bloom from Bret Kull, Ray Weston and the rest of the band when - or if he decides to write a review of the 31 year old album in question.
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Posted By: AJ Junior
Date Posted: February 09 2024 at 13:48
Give your honest opinion but don't make generalizations. As the first user replied, think about what specifically you would change, and why it failed to move you. Plainly saying "This sucks" is not analytical or useful information that explains anything. At the end of the day, music is subjective and everyone has their own thoughts on different things. Happy listening  ------------- "Together We Stand, Divided We Fall" |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 09 2024 at 14:52
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Posted By: Hector Enrique
Date Posted: February 09 2024 at 16:29
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I think that objectively defining whether an album is good or bad is such a difficult and to some extent sterile task. The evaluation of an album or an artist is so conditioned by our emotions, experiences and parental influences, friends, etc, etc. I think what we have to do is to be as honest as possible if we want to share our points of view, in such a way that we can contribute something to those who read us. Now, what
things do we review? Well, I think that in general we review genres of music
that are related to us and usually identify us in some way. In my case, I don't
see myself reviewing Donna Summer or Earth, Wind & Fire for example, not
because their music is intrinsically bad, which I don't think it is, but
because that style, which has its own rules, doesn't generate feelings that
move me in any way. When we are more or less clear about what represents us, something that can mutate at any moment, we will find that not everything is rosy, and that is also part of the rules of the game. I've mentioned before how much I love Pink Floyd's music, but it seems to me that when Waters does the redux of "Dark Side..." transforms the songs into something different that moves away from what I subjectively expect, and I feel I must share it, or when Queen, another band I love, is able to do "Prophet's Song" and a few years later does "Cool Cat" or "Staying Power", I also feel I must share it. You can be very critical, moderately critical or a mild critic, it depends on the communication style of each person, but I think it is important that, if we decide to comment on something, and that something does not meet our expectations, it is valid to express it in that sense, with our point of view supported. And to
exaggerate the point, if we see for example that a person rates all Yes albums
5 stars, what we could deduce is that he unconditionally loves the band, and we
would probably take his comments as those of a fan and not very seriously. I think
that commenting on what we think is good and what we think is not so good is
equally valuable. ------------- Héctor Enrique |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: February 10 2024 at 04:38
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I'm not much of a fan of the term "objective", particularly not when it comes to music. That said, I believe it can be a good thing in appreciating art, music, films etc. to get out of the "evaluation" mode, to get away from asking ourselves whether we like this or not, whether it is good or bad in the first place. I think it helps taking the work as a message, and as a challenge. Like when a person we care for tells us something that is important to them. We will not ask "do I like this or not", we will in the first place try to get why this is important for them, and how to relate to it. The challenge is to find out and get what's in it. We may even play it as some kind of game with ourselves: If we, as listeners, can make this work for us, tell us something worthwhile, we have won. And note, this is our job! The listener creates their own experience. If we fail to appreciate something, there is an element of "we haven't managed to let it get to us" in it. (Not that I'm saying every work could work for everyone with enough effort, of course not. But I think often trying harder helps, if done in the right spirit at least.) If in a review we give an account of how the communication of an album with us worked out, how we tried, how we got something to work and some other bits not, even how we could imagine it could work for others if not ourselves, not focusing on whether it's "good" or "bad" in any general way, that would make a worthwhile review, I'd think.
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 10 2024 at 05:34
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 10 2024 at 05:34
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There's some very good posts here. I appreciate everyone's comments. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: suitkees
Date Posted: February 11 2024 at 13:26
Interesting question. Apart from the fact that "objective review" seems to be an oxymoron to me, I think I understand what your getting at. As a reader of reviews, I'm not expecting objectivity, but I'm expecting a subjective assessment that is at the same time descriptive enough so that I can get enough information for myself to guess if I might or not like an album. Regarding your example of Echolyn's album it is not that much if you like it or not what would interest me in your review, but rather why you like or don't like it. Saying that you never cared that much for Gentle Giant and that this album is too reminiscent (to you) to this band is an information that would be valuable to me to give an impression about the music itself, and not only about your personal appreciation of it - this is definitely something that would have its place in a review. More gerenerally I think a review should be giving enough descriptive ("objective" if you wish) information to give the reader something to relate to and "understand" your take on it: understand the particulars/qualities of the music, but also why those are or are not what speaks to you. Comparisons may help to make an argument, not objective, but subjective, but that is how readers can get information about the music beyond the I like/I don't like dichotomy. ------------- The razamataz is a pain in the bum |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: February 11 2024 at 15:04
Yeah--- write about exactly that feeling: that conundrum of not liking, listening again after years, still not liking, and what that means to you as a listener & reviewer. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 11 2024 at 15:33
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 11 2024 at 15:33
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I feel a review coming on. Stay tuned. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: February 12 2024 at 14:51
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Steve, I'm looking forward to your review of that Echolyn lp. I have similar thoughts on the band to what you posted in your original post.. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: February 12 2024 at 15:43
| I actually do think that a negative subjective review can be valid (along the lines of what Snicolette said), but then I think it would be best to abstain from submitting a rating. I don't think that's possible at PA, but it is at AP, and I've seen that in print magazines occasionally. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 13 2024 at 14:18
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Now on the main reviews home page. My review of "Suffocating The Bloom" by Echolyn. Comments welcome. Enjoy.
https://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=286" rel="nofollow - https://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=90" rel="nofollow - Echolyn Symphonic Prog Review by https://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=51358" rel="nofollow - SteveG https://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=51358" rel="nofollow">   Suffocating The Bloom is one of the most beloved 90s prog albums but I've never cottoned to that opinion. To get the elephant in the room ejected, I must state that their love of all things Gentle Giant is the biggest mark gainst them to me, never being a fan of GG and their busy multi vocal workouts. So, trying to place that aside I decided to review the album on just the first 4 songs as anymore would just be repition. Especially when it comes to the album's 20 plus minute closing suite.The lead off track "21" is a toned down affair with gentle acoustic guitar strums and keyboard strings. It reminds me of a ballad that Kansas would do. But do much better. It's also very atypical to the rest of the songs on the album. "Winterthru" seems to be an ode to the Christmas season, if not the holiday itself. It has pleasant melodies and a very Renaissance Novella era verse and vocals. Filled with all manor of chimes and bells, it's quite busy enough but sent over the edge by the song's bombastic chorus. This is where the drumming of Paul Ramsey goes ballistic and almost over powers the music. Some restraint would have been welcome but that word doesn't seem to be in this drummer's vocabulary. This would be a trademark throughout the album. "Reaping The Harvest" starts out mellow enough but it's bombastic chorus now the feature the GG style multi lead and counter vocals. Busy enough in itself if the drummer didn't think that every faster paced chorus and instrumental break was a competition with ELP's "Karnevil 9". Even ELP knew when to lay low. Remember "Lucky Man". And that goes for the rest of this group too. The following track "In The Garden" starts off with a long synth piece that's quite boring. I'm not sure what purpose it serves the song. The song changes into a faster paced multi vocal workout over a jazzy melody and rhythm before exploding into more over played choruses and instrumental breaks. And more over playing from, you guessed it, the drummer. Having listened to this album a few times, I could repeat the same criticisms on the rest of the songs, but that would be academic. "Suffocating The Bloom" is well recorded and well played, but an outside producer was needed to reign in a lot of the endless bombast and constant overplaying. And give the drummer a Valium. There's nothing wrong with prog musicians taking inspiration from their heroes, be they Gentle Giant, Yes, KC or who ever, but some restraint would have resulted in Echolyn suffocating the bloom instead of suffocating the music. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: wiz_d_kidd
Date Posted: February 14 2024 at 07:32
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Seems like a quite fine and fair review. You were specific regarding the aspects you didn't like, and what changes could be made to make it fit comfortably in your musical wheelhouse. And because the music lacked any specific faults (e.g. singing out of key, amateurish compositions, playing out of synch, horrendous mixing, etc.) -- a 3 star rating was probably appropriate. Sometimes I will give a lower fractional rating (i.e. 2-1/2 stars) in the write-up, and tell them I rounded up for some reason (e.g. it was a good effort, PA doesn't allow fractions, giving benefit of the doubt, etc). It emphasizes your overall disappointment without being too harsh on their ratings. ------------- "Instrumental music is an expression that words can never capture." -- Peter Baumann |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: February 15 2024 at 06:20
Hi I'm of the opinion that bands that "take the inspiration" from their heroes are bands that are not exactly in sync with their own abilities, and thus need to show themselves that they can do this, as a way to show that they are also capable. I find this sad ... because one would be ignoring the very source of inspiration itself, which is within you and has nothing to do with anyone else. That doesn't mean that many bands are not good enough, or capable, and then you can listen to Stackridge, and you know that song writing and Beatles are tops for them, and they don't sound like The Beatles at all, and in fact complement them really well even doing a song or two ... maybe even better than the original! It's weird to me, that some folks think they have to "sound" like, or "be" like someone else in order to believe they are good enough musicians to do something. But it shows, a music scene that only teaches copy to learn, and does not know how to help folks with "creativity" other than doing something already done ... well, let me tell you ... almost all "progressive" drummers, learned nothing from Moonie, Bonzo, a few Zappa drummers ... and how to interpret music ... they all can count ... oh yeah ... beautifully ... but they don't know how to let go of their snare drum to learn how to color music and not just keep time! It is a disease within "progressive music", but then, I seriously doubt that many of those musicians will (eventually) make it to the pantheon of greatness, because their originality that comes from themselves, is not quite visible, and their "ideas" are more important than looking in the mirror for inspiration ... they have to look at someone else! The most they can get is some "fame" ... and in my book, they can have that ... good luck living with people telling you what to do that is not a part of your inner self! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: February 15 2024 at 06:49
| Good review but I don't agree with your thoughts. Paul Ramsey, IMO, is a fantastic drummer that does not need Valium, and Gentle Giant is one of the best prog acts ever and I love their "busy" multi-layered vocals. I really don't see anything you wrote that is "objective", and I'm confused that you gave it three stars when the review reads like it should be two stars. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 15 2024 at 08:32
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: February 15 2024 at 11:37
Hi, I do not like to criticize reviews ... the opinions are often needed and appreciated. The honesty, is the difference. It's not like you are telling everyone that they sound like "washing machine music" (given to TD one time by a total idiot!) ... and your view is fine. FOR ME, it falls into an area that is very tough to listen to, and often gets in trouble with many listeners, and even FRank Zappa fits the bill! It's too busy, and sometimes, that "busy-ness" is not as good as it seems to be, and GG is very tough in this area as their mixes are insane, and if broken down properly, shows a knowledge of music history that is rarely found or seen anywhere. My issue with "copies" is that they do not have the history behind it, and don't know how to apply them in a way that is smoother for our ears ... I think GG did a magnificent job, and they were NOT one of the bands that I loved in the early days ... today, when I hear it, the musicianship is so far and above the majority of anything listed in the AOY stuff, that it is not funny ... but we think the numbers are more important! All in all, for me, the best thing to do is to find a thread that does not compare it to anything, and this is the tough side of a review ... which I found in film, and learned when I saw the film "Visions of Light", although my training and studying as a director for theater and film, had me looking at more than one thing in any production, and this is the part that is hard to do with a rock band ... too many of them do not really have anything with them, beyond the "believe me" thing ... and this is the bad part of the fan side of all this, which makes your making a review very tough ... I like to say ... don't be a fan ... just be yourself! The nice part of taking that route, is that all of a sudden, in a film, you find 5 or 10 details that help define a review ... and this is the part that is tough for me in music reviews, as the music and the words in them, are not enough ... there is something missing there ... and I call it "the soul" of the work. WHEN the whole thing is based on an "IDEA" you got to realize that it comes from someone's mind ... and you and I CAN NOT read their minds in order to make a good sense of what is being done ... and many folks rely on their idea of what it sounds like, and immediately compare it to something else since they have no words for it otherwise. And that is the part you have to let go, to get a good review. At least one that makes sense to you! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 15 2024 at 12:02
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 15 2024 at 22:06
I have never been a Gentle Giant fanatic personally and Echolyn are more my speed musically. Great chops, I like the 'emo' vocals and strong emphasis on melody. One of the great bands that has come out of the US post 80's along with Dream Theater, Spocks Beard and more latterly the oft overlooked but brilliant Presto Ballet. It was a heavier style of symphonic prog. The review is a personal one, driven by the need not to dismiss a band that is considered important. I've never had any problem woth 'endless bombast and constant overplaying' 
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: February 16 2024 at 02:55
HI, Not necessarily. It doesn't matter if it is known or not ... what matters is the work itself ... again, the "known" and "unknown" idea is already based on something that you know, or see, as opposed to do NOT see. And the point in a lot of the music that became known as "progressive" was EXACTLY about what you DID NOT SEE, or EXPECT that made the music exciting and far out to our ears ... we had NEVER heard anything like it before, and to me, that is the "magic" of the review and comments. This is one reason why I prefer a lot of new and unknown things ... nothing to compare it to, and your mind has to do some gymnastics in order to learn something new and work to find a thread in it that ticks with you ... whereas something that is "known" or done before, is just not as appealing, as a review, let alone a listen! I think one has to separate the personal "knowing" from the stuff that you are seeing that you do not know, or understand. Otherwise, I think all you can find is the same stuff that you already know, and for me, that is the best recipe to boredom, and AoY numbers! I won't review those ever. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 16 2024 at 05:49
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Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: February 16 2024 at 09:23
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It's quite a long time ago that I don't write reviews but when I did, I felt that the approach should be different depending on the reasons why you don't enjoy much the album. My premise was basically not to write negative reviews of albums of sub-genres I don't enjoy much in themselves. Let's say I don't fancy much Extreme Prog Metal, but because some particular album of this genre is getting a lot of praise, I decide to give it a chance and listen to it a few times. But no way, I don't like it. It's not that it may not be good in its own terms, but I simply don't like the style of music. In this case I consider myself unable to appreciate or to discern and judge the good and the bad, as surely a fan of the genre will be able to do. I could never do the album justice. So I pass on reviewing. But if I like Symphonic, and I listen to a Symphonic album which I don't like, I feel confident that I can critizise it giving the reasons why. Perhaps the compositions are weak, or the musicians are not very proficient, or it is excessively flat and boring, or the production sounds amateurish, or whatever. |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: February 16 2024 at 11:07
| A good thing about the review is certainly that you "declared an interest". I wouldn't call this objective (but then I don't like that term anyway, at least when it comes to music), but certainly it makes the reader appreciate where you are coming from. Which is a helpful element in a negative review. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: February 16 2024 at 13:29
Hi, When one is looking at something different, and not a run of the mill piece of work ... things change ... you have no ideas, or boundaries to "declare an interest" beyond ... wonder what all this is about. This is, for example, since music does not really have anything like it, what one will find in the film maker Gaspar Noe ... where what you think and expect is never there, and what takes place instead is ... wow ... you gotta be kidding me ... and the total surprises and jumps that you go through take apart your ideas of anything that you have seen before, or think about! It's that different. BUT, can one say that it is wrong, or bad? NO. Does a review have to be complimentary? NO. But you can not sit here or there and pontificate on your values that you think makes a bad film ... but the way that things are done, by this director is outside the levels of interpretation and understanding, for most of us, that are into a commercial style of music, and does not always frequent, or discuss the most unusual and different things, and the growls keep on coming! Wow ... that's original! The examples are tough ... a film that is strictly inside the guy's mind ... and I mean inside his mind ... we only see what he thinks and does ... a film that goes from the end to the start ... totally insane but really well defined and written! And if that's not enough a trip to the other side, in ways that we can only imagine they are like, but in this case ... you go out of the theater wondering ... wow ... what is this about? Rock music, in general, and this includes the stuff that is considered "conceptual", is kindergarten stuff by comparison ... it's literary ideal and value is in the area of "make belief" and has very little value otherwise. But we think that the fact that it is "considered" a concept, that it makes it important ... well I guess it is but that is not the definition of a "concept" and never has been! GG is a tough listen for many, specially folks that are into the numbers and into the fame/famous bands ... because their sound has become so homogenized to your mind, as to make it specially hard to see/hear different things, which will often create some confusion inside your noodles. To me, that "confusion" is the root of something new to learn and study. This has been the history of all the arts for hundreds and hundreds of years, so Echolyn sounding like a different version of Gentle Giant is not quite a big deal ... although I don't really see folks say that Tchaikovsky copied Beethoven and wanted just as many Symphonies! (... something like that!). Writing a review of something you (apparently) do not relate to very well, is a bit of an issue, however, that's like saying that those 2 stooges that did a lot of film reviews agreed on everything ... just about one third of their stuff they did not agree at all ... and it still made the grace, and you might want to check their work some. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |