Prog tracks that you feel get too much hate...
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Printed Date: July 17 2025 at 17:11
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Topic: Prog tracks that you feel get too much hate...
Posted By: Disconnect
Subject: Prog tracks that you feel get too much hate...
Date Posted: May 05 2025 at 14:53
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Moonchild - King Crimson I know I'm in a vast minority, but I've always loved this song. ------------- "My own response to King Crimson is one of quiet terror." - Robert Fripp |
Replies:
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: May 05 2025 at 15:02
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I like "Moonchild" as well, but I have to be in the right mood. I used to love the album it's off, then I kind of went away form it for many years as I got interested in other things, and now really enjoy it gain. My choice would be "A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers". Yes it is very acclaimed by some but it also is much loathed by others. I have found it surprising just how polarising it is amonsgt Prog peeps. I think it's brilliant. I also have seen some people say here that they love the first half, but not the second. I adore how the suite evolves, it's shifts and changes, and how it ends. When it ends I just want to play it again. I guess all things are apart, but then again, all things are a part. ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: Disconnect
Date Posted: May 05 2025 at 16:08
I love Plague of Lighthouse Keepers, but there is very little VDGG I don't love.  ------------- "My own response to King Crimson is one of quiet terror." - Robert Fripp |
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: May 05 2025 at 17:20
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Every single Allan Holdsworth written tune. Not an appreciated solo artist at PA. 
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Posted By: Steve Wyzard
Date Posted: May 05 2025 at 17:44
| "Who Dunnit"!!!!!!! |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: May 05 2025 at 17:46
For whatever it's worth or not worth, I like this: ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Grumpyprogfan wrote:Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 05 2025 at 19:55
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AH is respected... 'appreciated' not so much. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: May 05 2025 at 20:29
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I used to play IOU, Metal Fatigue, and U.K. so much that I wore out my tapes. Allan Holdsworth was an incredible artist. I also have his book on Melody Chords. Intricate chords and such an interesting legato style … almost like a saxophone in terms of fluidity. These days I’m listening more to band-centric energetic music that is less focused on virtuosic soloing as the spotlight. I’m not taking anything away from Holdsworth by saying that. His songwriting is elegant, spot-on, and unique but it’s not my current focus at the moment. |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: May 05 2025 at 22:43
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To me Moonchild is wonderful as part of the full album experience. But it's the track on the album I would be the least likely to feel like playing on its own. I think of the four other compositions as timeless classics, so I guess I don't place it up there with the others in that regard. But that's not what it's made for. So Meddle is my favorite Pink Floyd album. I'm not gonna fight for Seamus. I do find it enjoyable and fun enough (but I wouldn't mind if they had included the studio version of Embryo instead). -San Tropez however is just so effortlessly beautiful to me. I love it as much as anything. I feel like the average progger dismiss it by default. When it's not judged on its own terms you miss out on what it actually aims for - and succeed at. I know I'm exactly like that myself at times though. Maybe More Fool Me is an excellent track for what it is too, I wouldn't know, and I never want to hear it again. So while I think it's unfair each time I'm the one with the unpopular opinion, I fully understand why and how this happens. |
Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: May 05 2025 at 23:59
| Almost everything written by Neal Morse is overhated lately. |
Posted By: Awesoreno
Date Posted: May 06 2025 at 00:20
| More Fool Me (there's nothing wrong with a "breather") and Battle of Epping Forest. But I'm a theater kid, so this is not surprising. I also love Robbery, Assault and Battery. Sue me. |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: May 06 2025 at 00:30
I agree. 
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: May 06 2025 at 01:38
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From the 'big six': Providence Abaddons Bolero Don't Kill The Whale All In A Mouse's Night I can't think of any classic era Tull or Floyd that is hated on try as I might to think of something, maybe that part of A Passion Play that annoys people but it's only a part of a track. I guess with Floyd I could throw in The Trial but I don't love it personally. |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: May 06 2025 at 01:41
I've never understood why some people dislike this song, is it the silly lyrics?! I've always liked it. 
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Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: May 06 2025 at 05:52
Embryo is a great track, but they must have been thinking that it was too close to Saucerful of Secrets while they were trying to find a different way. But in their shoes I would have released it. ------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution |
Posted By: Criswell
Date Posted: May 06 2025 at 06:58
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Benny the Bouncer - ELP Fun track...rollicking piano bit... |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: May 06 2025 at 07:17
I agree that it's nothing wrong with a breather - like the short and sweet For Absent Friends. But I think More Fool Me is a weak song. |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: May 06 2025 at 07:28
OK, no problem.
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Posted By: Criswell
Date Posted: May 06 2025 at 07:54
It's essentially the soundtrack to a Tom & Jerry cartoon... |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: May 06 2025 at 07:58
| Anything by German symphonic prog band "The Pink Mice"....brilliant musicians, but, despite that, have garnered some low ratings, here... |
Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: May 06 2025 at 08:06
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Posted By: Floydoid
Date Posted: May 06 2025 at 08:29
I agree about 'San Tropez' - the light cocktail hour jazzy feel nicely fits in with the overall romantic feel of the album (though not as a stand alone track). Embryo would have been an interesting inclusion, tho the band claimed it was never properly finished (hence the hasty withdrawal of the Harvest label double sampler 'Picnic'). The other nice inclusion, again with a romantic feel, could have been 'Biding My Time' had it not been shoved out on 'Relics' earlier in the year. Yes, 'Seamus' is the definitive throwaway track. Meddle is my favourite album of all time by the way, as it was my entry point into the Floyd (and the start of a lifelong obsession with all things Floydian). Not only that, on a wider scale, 'Meddle', and the live album of Ummagumma proved to be my gateway into prog generally... all back in 1971/2! ------------- "Christ, where would rock & roll be without feedback?" - D. Gimour |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 06 2025 at 09:35
Hi, Considering how many versions of EMBRYO were on the bootlegs, I would imagine that there was a some thought along the way to include it, though I have a feeling that it didn't fit the ideas, or concepts, that they loosely designed for their albums, which left EMBRYO behind. BTW, shame on you ... Mme Nobs (Knobs??) was very far out! And better looking than Roger! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Gnik Nosmirc
Date Posted: May 06 2025 at 10:37
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Emerson's Piano Concerto n°1, but we've already had this discussion... ------------- Jazz Rock / Fusion · Canterbury · Psych / Space Rock · Krautrock · Prog Electronic · RIO / Avant-Prog · Post Rock |
Posted By: Enchant X
Date Posted: May 06 2025 at 19:37
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Posted By: TheLionOfPrague
Date Posted: May 07 2025 at 16:36
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Jeremy Bender - ELP More Fool Me - Genesis ------------- I shook my head and smiled a whisper knowing all about the place |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: May 08 2025 at 01:22
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"Owner of a Lonely Heart." I love to watch Howe's face whenever he plays it, he looks like he ate rabbit poo! (Thanks, Lazland, for the brilliant analogy!) It's not a bad song, actually. ------------- I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!! |
Posted By: DoobieBrother6
Date Posted: May 11 2025 at 06:12
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I agree that YES "Don't kill the whale" gets short shrift from the forums. Also "Topographic Oceans" wrongfully gets ascribed bile. |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: May 11 2025 at 07:41
Mademoiselle Nobs replaced Seamus from the studio recording, in Pompeii. So it's really Steve Marriots Border Collie I'm not willing to fight for:) The studio recording of Embryo ended up on a Harvest Sampler in 1970 (without the band's approval). I know the band never thought they nailed it properliy, but I love it and think it would have been the perfect end to side 1. I'm more than happy with Meddle as it is of course. Just a meaniningless "what if" thought. Nothing more. |
Posted By: Themistocles
Date Posted: May 12 2025 at 21:51
That is a shame. An esoteric masterclass of a career. ------------- Sjå, my first album in 25+ years is out now: https://jeffjahn.bandcamp.com/album/sj I am told its quite original |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: May 13 2025 at 01:20
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Siberian Khatru, which I read folks compare to Stayin' Alive. I am particularly fond of the Yessongs version. As previously mentioned, The Battle of Epping Forest. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 13 2025 at 08:33
Hi, I think I had something like 8 or 9 bootlegs from the early days, and only one from DSOTM on (the Anaheim triple LP). The bootlegs for DSOTM, were not interesting and that's where you could see that the mechanical style needed to stay with the film and all the stage stuff, might have taken the flow of the band and its previous shows. I think it was the version of EMBRYO that was on a Wyzardo (something like that) bootleg that was way better than most of them, and the version on the Sampler was not that good in my ears. It also sounded like it was doctored in parts ... a criminal offense! It really made me wonder who the fudge made these decisions ... like ignoring the band's ability and how they worked things, and eventually using a version that did not have the nuances that so many of the bootlegs were showing ... I just about have to listen to them all again, though I think all of those bootlegs have long been gone from my collection ... (the LP's were getting too heavy for this old man without a house of his own, and having to move was a problem!) I have to get rid of the books, and CD's too ... though at least I can rip them into MP3's and hope a can fit them all in many hard drives and save them ... since no one else has ever heard the majority of the bootlegs and really has no idea what I am saying, or likely thinking that I am just making stuff up! PF did not make its name from the Syd Barrett days ... they made their name from the concerts with DG at the start, and then blew out the map with DSOTM. But it was the bootlegs that prefaced the fantastic concerts, of which I got to see one at the Hollywood Bowl (either August or September 1972) in their magic sound that was QUADRAPHONIC ... another idea that most people here have no idea and think some of the magic in digital positioning a la SW, was big ... the only bad thing about the QUAD system was that you couldn't take it home with you! The stuff these days, even in the fancy digital crap is still not as good ... for that matter, even the Grateful Dead sound system was the best I have ever saw and heard ... clean too! You never missed a single touch by anyone playing anything, and it was truly a big trip! At the Hollywood Bowl, the opener was "One of These Days" and it going around your venue front, back and side, was pure magic. Still something to love and enjoy ... this was never repeated even after DSOTM ... of with RW who turned a 3D moment into a 2D crap'er in his shows! Roger might know and create a lot of stuff, but he has no feel for its presentation whatsoever! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 13 2025 at 10:10
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Hi, Comments on this thread are in the MOSH PIT ... it was too long to post here. It will be up within an hour or two (9AM here PST) ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: May 13 2025 at 10:36
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Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: May 13 2025 at 11:24
Pink Floyd was still using a quadrophonic sound system during their 1994 tour. I saw them in Philadelphia and can vividly remember the sound moving around the stadium. And that's even from sitting on one side of Veterans Stadium in the upper deck (left side of the stage). I imagine it was more pronounced if you sat in the middle of the stadium on the field. ------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 13 2025 at 15:42
Hi, There is no poor/bad seat in that system, which is how I remember it ... and it just makes the whole thing so special ... always loved it, and I laugh when I hear any of SW's mixes, kinda making it look like this instrument is here and that one over there, and then having the sound move around a bit ... it's a really poor version of what PF did live, in large places, at least. I always thought that the logic behind the remix/remaster was not thought out properly, and it tended to focus on cool, not the work itself! I don't even have the heart to listen to SW's remixes of KC. I never needed them as their music had the spaciousness for us to feel it. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: May 13 2025 at 16:20
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^ SW mixes are getting a lot of hate ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to: 
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 14 2025 at 08:07
Hi, It's not hate. It's simply that what he is doing is not as mind altering, or incredibly artistic development for the music itself. And it goes back at least 75 years when a famous conductor wanted to change the sitting of the orchestra players so different parts of the music would get a better expression in the recording. So, thinking that what SW is doing is far out and exceptional, makes me think that the history of "recording" is being ignored, and not many folks have EVER heard the RED SEAL albums in the late 1960's which were the very special super recordings of a lot of things. TOMITA's "Snowflakes are Dancing" got the treatment, and you want that version, so you can hear what SW is doing ... and this album was done in 1975!!!! I, personally, do not have an issue with the work that SW is doing, although I think that some of it is not helping the work much ... I still see/think that the Gentle Giant stuff is much better and superior on a really good sound system with a good/great turntable and stylus .... however, these days, no one has really heard anything that great to have any idea of what I am saying and know the difference. But, in my book, SW is doing one thing that is valuable, and that is improving the recording on a lot of albums where it was fine at the time, but really not that great. I, for example, doubt that SW can touch an album done by Alan Parsons, for example, specially as he came through the classical folks in England that were doing some outstanding stuff in recording, way before EMI/Abbey Road opened up their doors to "long haired poor musicians" as many were labelled then. It was a part of the list of the worst business decisions ever done, BTW, listed for the 20th century ... specially The Beatles and Rolling Stones. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Disconnect
Date Posted: May 14 2025 at 08:34
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I enjoyed SW's mixes of Tarkus and Octopus. To these ears they sound amazing. Full disclosure, though, I have a really high-end turntable and sound system...so to Pedro's point I suppose that does matter a bit. ------------- "My own response to King Crimson is one of quiet terror." - Robert Fripp |
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: May 14 2025 at 10:25
| The reason I buy any SW remix is because of the surround mixes, and all I've heard are excellent. Even an average budget surround setup will sound excellent. Also, both Alan Parsons and Steven Wilson have both mentioned that they prefer surround to stereo. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 14 2025 at 12:21
Hi, We kinda forget that Alan Parsons was already doing "surround" when doing a lot of the classical music work he was a part of. So Alan saying that he preferred surround is kinda funny and weird, and almost suggests that we do not know what surround was being done in the 1960's to get a better sound out of an orchestra, however, the playing equipment at home, was stereo as "surround" could not exactly be done at home, though some German efforts (the Head system) and other things were attempts at spreading the ability of a stereo system, but a stylus, in general could not exactly pick up 4 points on a groove in the LP, I don't think. NOTE: Check out an orchestra recording on a RED SEAL album ... you will be able to tell, on the headset, that this was a different microphone than that and many more examples, since in those days, one did not exactly do as much changing, and was dependent on the quality of the playing more than it is these days, where electronics allow for changes later if one wants to. Wonderful example with Klaus Schulze and Lisa live album on one of the CD specials where they want to change a detail ... that you and I will NEVER find ... to make it better! This brings out how things were recorded all around ... and the orchestra had a lot more details to work on, than a rock band, in general 4 or 5 folks. The design and implementation for an orchestra is far more important for a recording than what was done with rock music, and only rock fans don't seem to know that. You can't record an orchestra with 4 or 5 microphones, in general it's going to take at least 30 or 40 microphones (possibly more!!!), creating a really huge work for the person at the big table which we see in pictures ... with 30 or 40 sets of levels and faders and some addons to each line, or microphone. Early rock music used to combine things on a microphone, and I think that some of the early Beatles and Rolling Stones had this, and when you hear it today, it really does not sound very good. Every time you see a table that big for the engineer, you know that they have done larger groups and orchestras. Since that time, however, a lot of really good engineers and producers, have helped improve the state of the recording of things for rock music, so SW making it look like he is repositioning things and making the whole thing sound better, or livelier, will sound good all around, and when it is cleaned up, it becomes even more interesting and enjoyable. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: May 19 2025 at 11:53
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A lot of the answers so far fit my views: Moonchild and the work of Allan Holdsworth in particular. I don't have a particular song in mind, but I find the debut Asia album to be fresh and energetic. The album is filled with great musicianship. ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: May 19 2025 at 23:04
I agree about Asia, their debut is perfect pop/prog but after that the issues with Wetton and Howe nearly killed the band. I remember going to see them in London when they performed the whole album (about 2007 maybe?) and the place was packed to the rafters. Great atmosphere. It's an album that could easily have been a gateway album for those approaching prog with its connections to ELP, Yes, King Crimson etc, in fact I always felt that Time and Time Again could even have been written for KC or UK. It has that jaggedness. No weak moments on that album whatsoever imo. |
Posted By: ProcolWho?
Date Posted: July 07 2025 at 22:38
Logged in to rebut this Nothing by Neal Morse can be hated enough . In case that double negative is unclear He nauseates me |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 07 2025 at 22:48
I suggest you don't log in ever again. 
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Posted By: RockHound
Date Posted: July 11 2025 at 07:37
| The SW mixes are very welcome in my collection. My favorite is his surround remix of Tales. He gave the album the treatment it truly deserved, especially since the earlier releases were so muddy. I have a high-end sound system with a 3700 watt sub. Squire totally shakes the house when I crank up TFTO in 5.1. |
Posted By: A Crimson Mellotron
Date Posted: July 11 2025 at 09:53
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Prog tracks that get too much flack? Haven't been following the discussion closely but off the top of my head I think anything Steven Wilson has done since 2017 up until now ('To the Bone', 'The Future Bites', 'The Harmony Codex'). The new album is probably getting the best reception of them all, interesting why. 
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Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: July 11 2025 at 10:16
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Yes - Magical Mystery Tour
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: July 11 2025 at 23:26
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"Time Table" by Genesis....I'm quite fond of it, particularly Gabriel's lyrics! ------------- I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!! |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: July 12 2025 at 02:20
| ^ Time Table get's (too much) hate? From who? I think it's stunning. For me the pastoral side to Genesis was always their main attraction. That's the sole reason I return to Nursery Cryme and Trespass more often than any of their later albums. Longing for more music that could ewoke such feelings, is probably why I once fell into the "Prog-rabbit hole" in the first place. |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: July 12 2025 at 04:17
| Too much hate? Probably the "battle of epping forest." Also, "the ancient" from TFTO. Not sure what else off the top of my head. |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: July 12 2025 at 13:52
| ^ Yes, you're right about Epping Forest. I'm one of the "haters" I suppose. But really I've just concluded that I find it annoying. It's the main reason (but also More Fool Me) I rarely reach for Selling England By the Pound, which is a bit of a shame - because there is a couple of decent tracks on it:) |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: July 12 2025 at 14:32
Annoying? I suppose that's one way to look at it. What I like about it is that it's very busy. There's a lot going on and it goes by very fast for a song of that length. Still, I can understand why some people don't care much for it. It does sound cobbled together to some degree. |
Posted By: Valdez
Date Posted: July 12 2025 at 14:34
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I happen to like ‘More fool me’ . Ah well. ------------- https://bakullama1.bandcamp.com/album/maxwells-submarine |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: July 12 2025 at 14:59
Something like Univers Zero - Dense is hypercomplex and even busier. But all its ideas and the way they tell stories are in a pure musical* form. I prefer that kind of busy. *but not like a musical:) |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: July 12 2025 at 15:06
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Abacab Your own special way That's all Into the Lens Red Lenses Atom Heart Mother Under Wraps - most of it Born Again - most of it Mirrors - most of it ------------- https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sQD8uhpWXCw" rel="nofollow - It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood...Road Rage Edition |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: July 12 2025 at 15:52
If I were to really dig around on PA, I could find some threads that were very critical of Time Table. What amazing imagery this evokes! A carved oak table, Tells a tale Of times when kings and queens sipped wine from goblets gold, And the brave would lead their ladies from out of the room to arbors cool. A time of valor, and legends born A time when honor meant much more to a man than life And the days knew only strife to tell right from wrong Through lance and sword. ------------- I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!! |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: July 12 2025 at 16:09
I never said it was "strange." |
Posted By: Faul_McCartney
Date Posted: July 12 2025 at 17:20
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I think Epping Forest is starting to become my favorite song off the album. As for Moonchild, if they lobbed off the Illusion section (as in some compilations) it would have made for a great single. It really sums up the mood of the album in two and a half minutes. I’m not sure how hated it is, but Devil’s Triangle deserves more love. ------------- If you think that it’s pretentious, you’ve been taken for a ride. |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: July 12 2025 at 17:39
That's the Beatles not Yes. The Yes song is just "Mystery Tour" and there's nothing magical about it.
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Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: July 12 2025 at 17:51
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Pink Floyd -Money. Love the album. Love the song. The production value is magnificent for 1973, and it has always been great in concert with extended Gilmour leads. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: July 12 2025 at 18:28
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Not sure whether I can say Jethro Tull's "Later Than Same Evening" gets too much hate, but for sure the Under Wraps album gets lots of stick and I don't see people mentioning this truly wonderful song as an exception. (The rest of Under Wraps isn't that bad either, except for the terrible drum sound.) ------------- I make typos so you see I'm not a machine, but I may be a machine pretending to not be a machine. |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: July 12 2025 at 20:42
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 12 2025 at 22:23
I'm not sure why it deserves more love. Not everything Fripp and co do is amazing. However I do like Providence
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Posted By: Faul_McCartney
Date Posted: July 12 2025 at 22:30
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When I first heard it I thought it was just meaningless noise. On my last relisten it suddenly clicked (as happens with prog). To me it sounds like a mini Plague of Lighthouse Keepers. Now Providence is one I'm still trying to get. ------------- If you think that it’s pretentious, you’ve been taken for a ride. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 12 2025 at 22:50
To me that that would be Cirkus, but yeah there is some connection between Crimson and VDGG stylistically for sure. |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: July 12 2025 at 23:05
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: July 12 2025 at 23:53
| I like The Devil's Triangle a lot too but I admit it took me a while to "get" it. |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: July 12 2025 at 23:57
I said annoying is one way to look at it. Annoying doesn't equal strange imo. I don't find it annoying so much as cluttered. It sounds sort of like Peter Gabriel just rambling with only a little keyboard solo in there. It's different from the rest of the album. I don't mind it but I can see why some people don't like it. |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: July 13 2025 at 00:42
| ^I know what you said and I know annoying and strange isn't the same. I read your response as if you thought looking at it as annoying, was kind puzzling - or strange. I was obviously wrong. Misinterpretations like that happens every once in a while. Still; I said my piece and you said yours. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 13 2025 at 07:52
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Hi, I can honestly say that the dislike situation has never bothered me, and I guess that I got it, just like Guy Guden (roomate at the time), from the station in terms of some serious lack of respect, specially when so many of the things that Guy was playing ended up getting some more attention ... which, the station made a point of ignoring anyway ... they were the stars with all the perfumes and powders and restoration regalia. I kinda think almost the same thing, when I see someone profess their hate for this or that ... it's just so ... distasteful, sort of like ... I didn't get the chocolate bar I was promised! Having been around a lot of literary folks, some with huge names, made the echoes of a really low level education (and stoned!!!) radio station, not really a very good conductor of what could, or might be thought as outstanding works of art ... for the most part, they were very pedestrian than otherwise. So, if someone else wants to add to the hate garbage ... go ahead ... the music will continue without that person, anyway ... ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: July 13 2025 at 08:22
Good. So let's move on now then.
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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: July 13 2025 at 14:01
| ^haha yes. That was my intention. |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: July 13 2025 at 14:15
My general dislike of Neo Prog ewoke much stronger feelings, probavly as it's closer to home. |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: July 13 2025 at 15:28
Here's one: "Time table is another weak song filled with some piano and corny lyrics, this song also points out the bad recording quality that plagues the Gabriel era of Genesis until the end of the decade." https://www.progarchives.com/review.asp?id=126357" rel="nofollow - Prog Review by Dim ------------- I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!! |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: July 13 2025 at 17:39
| Time Table is one of those rare songs in which the verse is stronger than the chorus. Dear Father by Yes is another example. |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: July 13 2025 at 18:03
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^ I think that's very common - maybe even the norm |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 13 2025 at 21:23
HI, It is honest, and in general, I tend to not say much when I see some of this stuff though I might try to make a point or two about those feelings, possibly not being right.
The sad thing for me, is how much so many folks show their dislike for something, which in my way of seeing is about someone's inability to appreciate music and its many ways of expression, some of which we might not enjoy. Maybe I'm getting old and all that ... I can sit and watch a 5 year old bang away on a piano, or drum or something else and get a smile and encourage the kid to go on and do more, and often have even tried to get the kid to do more, and more ... which many of them love to do when they are being appreciated. But, from my experiences in theater with actors, even those moments for a kid are important, and they might even, someday take up music, and learn to play and enjoy what they do ... and end up being very different than the idea we have of a school taught musician that can only count, for example. Hate, maybe, is not appropriate for what is thought as an "art", I guess, and I don't go to the Louvre to hate any paintings, or to Rome to laugh at half the statues and their Christianity ... it is the expression of the time and place, even if controlled by a church or anyone else. I would hope that, we, as "progressive" folks within a "progressive" forum, would be much more understanding about the music and the arts ... and we end up finding folks that don't care at all! I often question their "progressive" nature. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: July 13 2025 at 22:03
^I've seen your true opinion on bands such as Fleetwood Mac and there was more hate in your disgust for anything post Peter Green there - than I've ever felt towards Neo Prog (which I do not hate in any way. I tend to respond negatively though). I'm open to so much music you look down upon. Maybe you forget yourself and feelings that you try to hide, reveals itself. I don't know. But I've seen it many times when there's discussions regarding more "mainstream acts".
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 14 2025 at 12:58
Hi, Not sure where you got that, as I still have several FM albums, though I think the last one I got was Penguin. I like the band ... no issues there ... what I dislike was that thing at the time they were having ownership issues, and a fake FM band was touring in California instead of the real thing. I found that rather sick, but not sure how the band itself could have prevented it ... and the law in the books, obviously, was really screwed up. But what was distasteful, was the commercialization when they went ballistic ... and even in Santa Barbara, it was FM every half hour on all the stations in the dial. It's hard to not get ...... about that kind of thing, but something in there was really sad though it helped create a lot of music! I don't know how we can achieve a nice, and objective view of music, specially "progressive" when we spend our time disliking stuff. Some stuff I don't think is very good, but the most I do with it is do the Spike Milligan touch ... a sock full of custaaaaarrrd (as he says it) ... thrown at the wall. I think the sound was what made us all laugh. I do, at times, listen to new things and one of the tough things is when it seems to not be very good or well defined, or as the example last week, the guy saying he was inspired by TD ... and I wonder what TD he was listening to since you'll have a hard time finding a TD piece of music that is 3 or 4 minutes long ... and I thought it weird that someone said they were inspired and never realized that TD was not about"songs" but about a literary form of music telling us a story ... all it defines for me is that a lot of folks will do the "sound" but they can never copy it, because they do not have the literary touch/feel that Edgar Froese used as his own inspiration. All of that, is, hopefully, an attempt hoping the listening to a lot of music is not about a song at all ... and the great masters of the century, it's about the expressive nature of the music ... and rarely is it a 3 or 4 minute song! This is why a lot of times I separate "music" from "song" ... and for me the best "progressive" material is not about a "song". And this was what a lot of the "art rock" things in the late 1960's were trying hard to show us ... get off that AM rinky dinky sounding stuff! The issue here being that folks today can not imagine how horrendous the sound of AM radio was at that time, and how FM radio was a breath of fresh air ... which helped the music grow HUGE. We still ignore that fact! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: July 14 2025 at 13:04
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Yes - Open Your Eyes Produced by Billy Sherwood - the only solo prog artist I know of who'd come last in a Billy Sherwood poll.  Actually, that's not entirely true - Phil Collins would come last too in a Phil Collins poll.
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Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: July 14 2025 at 13:43
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^^ on the contrary... as many physical copies as possible should be rounded up and burnt in the market square on a Sunday morning ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: July 14 2025 at 13:55
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King Crimson - Cat Food It's my cats' favorite prog song.
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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: July 14 2025 at 15:00
Well, I remembered it wrong, but you written things like this about music and artists plenty of times. Fine by me. Sometimes I even sympathize or agree with your harsh words.
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Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: July 14 2025 at 15:04
| How about Misunderstanding by Genesis? |