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Changing the order of tracks and/or skipping some

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Printed Date: August 14 2025 at 21:09
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Topic: Changing the order of tracks and/or skipping some
Posted By: David_D
Subject: Changing the order of tracks and/or skipping some
Date Posted: June 07 2025 at 09:50

Although I'm not fond of listening to albums with some original tracks replaced by other ones, or other tracks added, I've been experimenting much with finding "optimal" order of the albums' original tracks. In the case of post-1970s and longer albums, I'm also often skipping some tracks when listening to my "optimal" version.

Some examples of my listening order to my personally optimal versions are:

Yes - Fragile (LP): side 2 ;; side 1
Caravan - Grey and Pink (LP): side 2 ;; side 1
Comus - First Utterance (LP): side 2 ;; side 1
Black Sabbath - Paranoid (CD): 2,1,3,4 ;; 5,6,8,7
Eskaton - 4 Visions (CD): 1,2 ;; 4,3
Metallica - Master of Puppets (CD): 1,2,4 ;; 5,6,7
Pink Floyd - Animals (CD): 1,3,4 ;; 5,2
Porcupine Tree - Coma Divine (CD): 2,3,4,6 ;; 5,8
Steel Mill - Green Eyed God (CD): 1,3,4,2 ;; 7,5,6,8
Taal - Skymind (CD): 1,4 ;; 5,6
;; indicates a short listening break between two halfs of the album

Sometimes I return to listening in the original order of tracks.

Have you tried something like that?


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                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond



Replies:
Posted By: I prophesy disaster
Date Posted: June 07 2025 at 11:14
I don't see the point of changing the order of the tracks on an album. I feel that if I play an album in the wrong order too often, then I will be creating an incorrect memory of the album, making the album sound wrong when played in the correct order. I do sometimes skip the less appealing tracks of an album when I don't really have the time to play the full album. However, I do try not to make a habit of doing this, to avoid creating an incorrect memory of the album. But there are albums that I simply stop playing before the final track, and I'm not really concerned about doing this.



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No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.


Posted By: AlanB
Date Posted: June 07 2025 at 12:09
When I bought my first copy of Argus by Wishbone Ash it was on cassette. For some reason I don't understand, sides one and two were reversed and for years I thought the album started with The King Will Come and ended with Blowing Free. That actually made sense to me because The King Will Come is an obvious opener for live shows and Blowing Free was often the show closer or encore. It was only when I replaced my cassette with a vinyl copy that I realised that Time Was was the opening track but I still think the cassette order of songs is better.


Posted By: fredyair
Date Posted: June 07 2025 at 16:58
Pink Floyd Wish You Where Here, I prefer to listen to Shine On You Crazy Diamond parts I to IX and then the short songs.

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Long live Progresive music!


Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: June 08 2025 at 05:19
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

I don't see the point of changing the order of the tracks on an album. I feel that if I play an album in the wrong order too often, then I will be creating an incorrect memory of the album, making the album sound wrong when played in the correct order.

It's not like that I listen to both the original and "my" version. It usually starts with that I dislike or am not satisfied with the original, and when I find one I like, I keep listening to it. Unless, I sometimes decide to return to the original version or listen to a new, maybe less modified, one.

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                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond


Posted By: wiz_d_kidd
Date Posted: June 08 2025 at 06:29
Sometimes listening to things out of order or out of context makes them sound different. I often listen to shuffled playlists and a song will come up that seems new and unfamiliar, but it's just a sleeper that finally got its time in the spotlight after hiding amongst other tracks on the album.

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"Instrumental music is an expression that words can never capture." -- Peter Baumann


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: June 08 2025 at 09:00
Hi,

Amon Duul 2 - Wolf City. In the original LP, the title track opened the album. Later a different version had Surrounded by the Stars as the opener which was the beginning of the original side 2 of the LP. I think the change was done because Surrounded by the Stars was heard and played a couple of times, thus, it was better known.

Caravan - The New Sinfonia. It was not complete, and it was not in the correct order. The remastered version has the complete show in order.

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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: BasedProgger
Date Posted: June 08 2025 at 09:37
None of these are "optimal"

Emerson, Lake & Palmer - Tarkus: skip side 2
Yes - Close to the Edge: 3, 2, 1
King Crimson - THRAK: 1, 2, 13, 8, 4, 5, 6, 10, Inner Garden KC50, 3, 14
Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here: the short songs then Shine On You Crazy Diamond


Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: June 09 2025 at 00:10
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

Amon Duul 2 - Wolf City. In the original LP, the title track opened the album. Later a different version had Surrounded by the Stars as the opener which was the beginning of the original side 2 of the LP. I think the change was done because Surrounded by the Stars was heard and played a couple of times, thus, it was better known.


Very nice, M! I agree! Wolf City is one of my favorite releases from the 1970s from any genre! RIP Lothar Meid!

https://knowyourbassplayer.com/2020/10/27/lothar-meid/" rel="nofollow - https://knowyourbassplayer.com/2020/10/27/lothar-meid/

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I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: June 09 2025 at 01:54
I guess it's not the most popular opinion to consider these changes, but having my IPod and ITunes, and having my compilations of favorite music in them, sometimes I do like to make lists very close to the albums, but with a few changes. Sometimes it's just including live versions instead of the original ones. Some quick ones I might think. 6 Wives of Henry the VIII, I prefer to listen to it in the chronological order in which Henry was with each one of them. Perhaps even mix my favorite versions between the original and the Hampton Court Palace concert, and adding the Tudorture and Tudorrock songs. I also like adding a few of the re recorded songs from the Arthur album to complete the story on that one (Camelot, The Holy Grail, and Excalibur). Related to 6 Wives, on Fragile I like to change Ricks solo spot for Catherine of Aragon, which I understand was what he intended to use on the album, but wasn't able because of his record contract, and which features the whole Yes lineup anyway (except for Anderson, being an instrumental song).


Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: June 09 2025 at 06:37

^ It's not like we're talking much about original albums here, but quite an interesting and very experimenting approach.

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                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond


Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: June 09 2025 at 08:00

About Wolf City and as it's documented on Discogs, the first track on the original release was actually "Surrounded by the Stars" - but not on the American where side 2 became side 1 on the vinyl itself, while the cover stated the opposite and thus like originals in other countries, including Canada.

Maybe it's because I'm used to it, but I think of the original non-American tracks order as the best one, while I actually own a copy of the American original LP release.



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                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: June 09 2025 at 12:58
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


About Wolf City and as it's documented on Discogs, the first track on the original release was actually "Surrounded by the Stars" - but not on the American where side 2 became side 1 on the vinyl itself, while the cover stated the opposite and thus like originals in other countries, including Canada.
...


Hi,

The first version I had was an import, and the title track was the opening cut on the LP.

At the time I had some notes about the American versions of a lot of albums and how bad they were, and in essence, were copies taken from a trash bin in NY or LA. This was the case with Sgt Pepper's for example, and later DSOTM as well. And we, at the time, were buying mostly IMPORTS from Moby Disk, Tower and the Warehouse at UCLA, the places in LA that had the most imports. The UCLA Warehouse was also magnificent for soundtracks, and a lot of jazz.

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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: RockHound
Date Posted: June 09 2025 at 14:12
The one time I did something like this was making KeysStudio and KeysLive albums. Much better than the mix of studio and live tracks originally offered by Yes. Beyond that, I have always rolled with albums the way they were released. Well, that is except for expunging Whodunnit from Abacab.


Posted By: Steve Wyzard
Date Posted: June 10 2025 at 13:05
I fully support "creative re-arranging" when it comes to album track orders (or should I say sequencing?).

The best example I can think of in my own listening is that I've always felt that "Side Two" of Simon & Garfunkel's Bridge over Troubled Water album should run like this:

"Baby Driver"
"Why Don't You Write Me?"
"Bye Bye Love"
"The Boxer"
"The Only Living Boy in New York"
"Song for the Asking"


Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: June 10 2025 at 14:20
I always though "Cook with Fire" as the opener of Dog and Butterfly marred an otherwise awesome album. They could have replaced "Cook with Fire" with "Heartless" and had a much better opener. Heartless was floating around at the same time but had been used on the Magazine album which had two version itself, one in 77 and one in 78.

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https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sQD8uhpWXCw" rel="nofollow - It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood...Road Rage Edition


Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: June 10 2025 at 15:26
I don't have any specific examples but I'll skip tracks.

However, it's quite impossible to do this with vinyl without ruining the flow, so CD's rule for this.


Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: June 10 2025 at 15:42
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

I don't have any specific examples but I'll skip tracks.

However, it's quite impossible to do this with vinyl without ruining the flow, so CD's rule for this.

Yes, but I'd say, you need a programmable CD-player where you can make a playlist for at least the half of an album (if it's not double) and then just listen to it.

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                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond


Posted By: tdfloyd
Date Posted: June 11 2025 at 16:41
Originally posted by fredyair fredyair wrote:

Pink Floyd Wish You Where Here, I prefer to listen to Shine On You Crazy Diamond parts I to IX and then the short songs.


Back in the day of cassettes, I made a tape Have a Cigar, Wish Your Were Here, Shine On You Crazy Diamond parts 6-9, 1-5, Welcome To The Machine.

On PF's A Nice Pair, I deleted Flaming, Take Up thy Stethoscope and Walk, The Gnome, The Scarecrow, Corporal Clegg, A Saucerful of Secrets.

Took the Celestial Voices part of A Saucerful of Secrets, and spliced it into Atom Heart Mother replacing the keyboard spacey part.


Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: June 11 2025 at 18:43
I love the studio disc of Ummagumma but dropping Several Species. It's cool enough, but not something I need to hear every time I want the rest.

Sysyphus
Grandchester Meadows
Several Species of Small Furry Animals
The Narrow Way
Grand Vizier

That's a perfect slab of Floyd right there.





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https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sQD8uhpWXCw" rel="nofollow - It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood...Road Rage Edition


Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: June 12 2025 at 05:44
Originally posted by AlanB AlanB wrote:

When I bought my first copy of Argus by Wishbone Ash it was on cassette. For some reason I don't understand, sides one and two were reversed and for years I thought the album started with The King Will Come and ended with Blowing Free. That actually made sense to me because The King Will Come is an obvious opener for live shows and Blowing Free was often the show closer or encore. It was only when I replaced my cassette with a vinyl copy that I realised that Time Was was the opening track but I still think the cassette order of songs is better.

This reminds me of Judas Priest's Sad Wings of Destiny (not on PA). On the original release and early reissues, side 1 and side 2 were on the cover list the opposite of those on the vinyl itself, and this order makes best sense to me. For it means that the album opens with "Prelude", has imo better flow in its entirety, and I also find "Dreamer Deceiver" and "Deceiver" to be best final tracks.



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                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond


Posted By: BasedProgger
Date Posted: June 12 2025 at 10:03
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by AlanB AlanB wrote:

When I bought my first copy of Argus by Wishbone Ash it was on cassette. For some reason I don't understand, sides one and two were reversed and for years I thought the album started with The King Will Come and ended with Blowing Free. That actually made sense to me because The King Will Come is an obvious opener for live shows and Blowing Free was often the show closer or encore. It was only when I replaced my cassette with a vinyl copy that I realised that Time Was was the opening track but I still think the cassette order of songs is better.

This reminds me of Judas Priest's Sad Wings of Destiny (not on PA). On the original release and early reissues, side 1 and side 2 were on the cover list the opposite of those on the vinyl itself, and this order makes best sense to me. For it means that the album opens with "Prelude", has imo better flow in its entirety, and I also find "Dreamer Deceiver" and "Deceiver" to be best final tracks.

Either order is fine but yes that might work better since that album loses it's steam after "Tyrant" in my opinion, the last three tracks being meh.


Posted By: Steve Wyzard
Date Posted: June 12 2025 at 10:15
Originally posted by BasedProgger BasedProgger wrote:

Either order is fine but yes that might work better since that album loses it's steam after "Tyrant" in my opinion, the last three tracks being meh.


It's been a LONG time since I've listened to Judas Priest, but I always liked "Epitaph" on Sad Wings of Destiny. It was such a change of pace on an otherwise intense album and Halford's vocal is wonderful.


Posted By: Steve Wyzard
Date Posted: June 12 2025 at 10:22
Just thought of another good example:

The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway is one of my Top 5 favorite Genesis albums, but...

1) I ALWAYS skip over "The Waiting Room".
2) 95% of the time, I skip over "The Lamia".
3) On very rare occasions, I've skipped over "Ravine" and that bizarre instrumental overture to "The Colony of Slippermen".
4) I've NEVER skipped over "Silent Sorrow in Empty Boats", because I absolutely LOVE that brief atmospheric masterpiece in spite of other listeners always complaining about it.


Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: June 12 2025 at 11:49
Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

Just thought of another good example:

The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway is one of my Top 5 favorite Genesis albums, but...

1) I ALWAYS skip over "The Waiting Room".
2) 95% of the time, I skip over "The Lamia".
3) On very rare occasions, I've skipped over "Ravine" and that bizarre instrumental overture to "The Colony of Slippermen".
4) I've NEVER skipped over "Silent Sorrow in Empty Boats", because I absolutely LOVE that brief atmospheric masterpiece in spite of other listeners always complaining about it.


skipping Waiting Room and Lamia
Silent Sorrow overstays its welcome by +/- three minutes
I simply rarely played side-D


.

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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword


Posted By: BasedProgger
Date Posted: June 12 2025 at 14:49
Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

It's been a LONG time since I've listened to Judas Priest, but I always liked "Epitaph" on Sad Wings of Destiny. It was such a change of pace on an otherwise intense album and Halford's vocal is wonderful.

I was never a fan of that song. Although oddly enough I remember seeing that song on some professional greatest prog rock songs of all time list scratching my heads thinking "how is this prog?" and "why this and not King Crimson's Epitaph?"


Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: June 13 2025 at 10:37
Originally posted by BasedProgger BasedProgger wrote:

Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

It's been a LONG time since I've listened to Judas Priest, but I always liked "Epitaph" on Sad Wings of Destiny. It was such a change of pace on an otherwise intense album and Halford's vocal is wonderful.

I was never a fan of that song. Although oddly enough I remember seeing that song on some professional greatest prog rock songs of all time list scratching my heads thinking "how is this prog?" and "why this and not King Crimson's Epitaph?"

Yes, that's strange, as the whole album is very obviously early Heavy Metal, even I'd say, not without some progressive quality.


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                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond


Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: June 15 2025 at 19:07
When TFTO first came out, I used to listen to Side One (Revealing Science of God), flip the disc to Side Two (The Remembering), and then move on to another band like Genesis. Basically, I was "Yessed out!"

I actually never heard sides 3 and 4 for some time!   As far as I’m concerned, an ideal revised TFTO would be either sides 1 and 2, or sides 1 and 4.

I really love “The Remembering,” although I know it is not the favorite of many on PA.



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I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: June 15 2025 at 19:23
ELP Works Vol One contains a mountain of skippable tracks. Pretty much all Greg Lake's side (bar Closer To Believing) 2 tracks off Carls' side (the shorter ones) and arguably Fanfare For The Common Man should have been an ep only release as Keith Emerson preferred at the time. That would bring it down to a manageable single album release and Greg Lake could easily have put out a decent solo album inc father Xmas, Watching Over You and Show Me The Way To Go Home. It's all a bit of a mess though of solo and band stuff, some orchestral and some not.


Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: June 15 2025 at 19:43
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

When TFTO first came out, I used to listen to Side One (Revealing Science of God), flip the disc to Side Two (The Remembering), and then move on to another band like Genesis. Basically, I was "Yessed out!"

I actually never heard sides 3 and 4 for some time!   As far as I’m concerned, an ideal revised TFTO would be either sides 1 and 2, or sides 1 and 4.

I really love “The Remembering,” although I know it is not the favorite of many on PA.



I really love all four sides. They are each different legs of the journey and bring their own personality, but they have a synergy as well. I listen to most Yes sparingly now because I've heard them so many times, and I subscribe to the "absence makes the heart grow fonder" theory perhaps. But they never disappoint.

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https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sQD8uhpWXCw" rel="nofollow - It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood...Road Rage Edition


Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: June 16 2025 at 12:13
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

When TFTO first came out, I used to listen to Side One (Revealing Science of God), flip the disc to Side Two (The Remembering), and then move on to another band like Genesis. Basically, I was "Yessed out!"

I actually never heard sides 3 and 4 for some time!   As far as I’m concerned, an ideal revised TFTO would be either sides 1 and 2, or sides 1 and 4.

I really love “The Remembering,” although I know it is not the favorite of many on PA.



I really love all four sides. They are each different legs of the journey and bring their own personality, but they have a synergy as well. I listen to most Yes sparingly now because I've heard them so many times, and I subscribe to the "absence makes the heart grow fonder" theory perhaps. But they never disappoint.


Thank you for responding! As a prog musician myself (I play a Rickenbacker bass in Squire's style), I don't so much "listen" to Tales as I study it intently!!

For example, Squire plays a fretless Guild bass with a plectrum to emulate the sound of an orchestra tympani!!   A remarkable musical innovation!!

That said, I never completely embraced "The Ancient" as much as the other sides, although it does contain some of the most melodic movements in the entire work. I need to listen to it some more?

"Relayer....all the dying cried before you..." What lyrics!!   This is Howe playing his Les Paul Junior during a life performance of "Ritual" in Chicago, the Solo Albums tour!


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I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: June 16 2025 at 16:45
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

When TFTO first came out, I used to listen to Side One (Revealing Science of God), flip the disc to Side Two (The Remembering), and then move on to another band like Genesis. Basically, I was "Yessed out!"

I actually never heard sides 3 and 4 for some time!   As far as I’m concerned, an ideal revised TFTO would be either sides 1 and 2, or sides 1 and 4.
...


Hi,

This is strange for me. I grew up on classical music and have always appreciated things that had a lot of length, and you work through them ... and the revenge of the rock'n'roll nerds against the history of music? Dump the parts you don't like, and if you do your own list for the drive, skip the stuff you don't like, or whatever.

There is no way, that anyone, as far as I see and understand, can get a good view and proper understanding of what the music and its design is about, when you skip the parts, and this is the saddest thing about rock music in the 21st century ... it's not about the art at all ... it's about the selfishness of the fan, that doesn't like this or that ... the one who is not the artist deciding what is good or bad.

Go buy the Goo Goo Farts!

It's a matter of time, and someone will cut down Beethoven's 5th or 9th ... I can see it now ... wtfudge is a choral doing here? I can see it now, Tchaikovsky gets his pieces broken down to half their length because so much of it is "filler".

AND WE THINK OF OURSELVES AS PROGRESSIVE AND THE FOLKS THAT HOLD UP ITS HISTORY ... BUT IN THE END WE TREAT IT LIKE THE NUMBERED STUFF THAT IS NOT PROGRESSIVE AT ALL ... and then state the bad things that we are stating here ... do most of you really like the music, or is this just a mask?

Hard to believe that so many folks here consider themselves "progressive" ... you don't rip the music down like the AM radio did a long time ago with a 15 second Light My Fire, and and a 2 minute I put a spell on you ... we're doing the same thing all over again ... and many folks here hate it when I mention history!

TFTO is perfect from the first minute to the last minute, and as I said before when I left the YES concert in 1972 ... it was the end of the music that was important, when all the folks woke up for Roundabout ... it's like the music did not matter, and the artistry was crap ... I still think the audience was crap, and came to hear one song ... not anything else.

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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: June 16 2025 at 19:47
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

When TFTO first came out, I used to listen to Side One (Revealing Science of God), flip the disc to Side Two (The Remembering), and then move on to another band like Genesis. Basically, I was "Yessed out!"

I actually never heard sides 3 and 4 for some time!   As far as I’m concerned, an ideal revised TFTO would be either sides 1 and 2, or sides 1 and 4.
...


Hi,

This is strange for me. I grew up on classical music and have always appreciated things that had a lot of length, and you work through them ... and the revenge of the rock'n'roll nerds against the history of music? Dump the parts you don't like, and if you do your own list for the drive, skip the stuff you don't like, or whatever.

There is no way, that anyone, as far as I see and understand, can get a good view and proper understanding of what the music and its design is about, when you skip the parts, and this is the saddest thing about rock music in the 21st century ... it's not about the art at all ... it's about the selfishness of the fan, that doesn't like this or that ... the one who is not the artist deciding what is good or bad.

Go buy the Goo Goo Farts!

It's a matter of time, and someone will cut down Beethoven's 5th or 9th ... I can see it now ... wtfudge is a choral doing here? I can see it now, Tchaikovsky gets his pieces broken down to half their length because so much of it is "filler".

AND WE THINK OF OURSELVES AS PROGRESSIVE AND THE FOLKS THAT HOLD UP ITS HISTORY ... BUT IN THE END WE TREAT IT LIKE THE NUMBERED STUFF THAT IS NOT PROGRESSIVE AT ALL ... and then state the bad things that we are stating here ... do most of you really like the music, or is this just a mask?

Hard to believe that so many folks here consider themselves "progressive" ... you don't rip the music down like the AM radio did a long time ago with a 15 second Light My Fire, and and a 2 minute I put a spell on you ... we're doing the same thing all over again ... and many folks here hate it when I mention history!

TFTO is perfect from the first minute to the last minute, and as I said before when I left the YES concert in 1972 ... it was the end of the music that was important, when all the folks woke up for Roundabout ... it's like the music did not matter, and the artistry was crap ... I still think the audience was crap, and came to hear one song ... not anything else.


Thanks, M, great perspective!

It is a matter of taste....I don't like all Bach, nor all Beethoven, etc. I would have been very happy with a two-sided TFTO, with a followup album later, or perhaps even a live album. I think the work needed some editing, but they chose to issue it as they did, which I accept.

Similarly, there are several parts of Lamb Lies Down that I don't care for, and so I don't listen to them. Musicians offer their music to an audience, and we are allowed to make choices.   As a musician and composer, I recognize that.

Unlike the Classical Era, the Progressive Era was dominated by personalities....if Beethoven didn't like a conductor, he could fire him. However, it was not so easy for rock bands to fire one quarter of their lineup!! I think the creative tension in bands like Yes, Genesis, ELP and King Crimson is what brought us such enjoyable (usually) and high-energy music!



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I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: June 17 2025 at 05:01
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:



Thanks, M, great perspective!

It is a matter of taste....I don't like all Bach, nor all Beethoven, etc. I would have been very happy with a two-sided TFTO, with a follow up album later, or perhaps even a live album. I think the work needed some editing, but they chose to issue it as they did, which I accept.

Similarly, there are several parts of Lamb Lies Down that I don't care for, and so I don't listen to them. Musicians offer their music to an audience, and we are allowed to make choices.   As a musician and composer, I recognize that.
...


Hi,

My thoughts are that we need to separate the artist from the fan, or buyer. IF, an artist is worried about the work, and its acceptance to the public, I am not sure that he/she is an artist. Living, based on someone else's ideas and tastes is not a good path to doing well in music, or any art.

The thing that hurts, is people wishing to change the work, because of parts they do not like ... and no artist will EVER live to that, and be a slave to the machine that is the public and the commercial side of things. You can't be free, if you are doing what the public is ... or what the advertising is specifying, because it doesn't sound right or is particularly pretty like pop songs with a dancing girl on it!

The hard part, is the appreciation for PROGRESSIVE MUSIC, a lot of its parts being the "progressive part" of the work, and us here, criticizing and not liking those specific parts. Not understanding things in the arts is not a good reason to say that it is bad, or not be appreciated. Music history has always shown us how some things didn't take for a while, and us looking at parts of a piece of music, to destroy it, is a sad comment on the appreciation of music, or the art form in general. It is a comment about the fan ... not the artist ... and this separation needs to be made, but if you don't like the artist for that part in the piece of music, there is only one person that is not understanding or appreciating the music in its totality ... and it ain't the artist!

Who you gonna give the voice to? To the folks that are going to destroy PROGRESSIVE MUSIC and turn it into the pop crap out there?

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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: June 17 2025 at 05:53
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:



Thanks, M, great perspective!

It is a matter of taste....I don't like all Bach, nor all Beethoven, etc. I would have been very happy with a two-sided TFTO, with a follow up album later, or perhaps even a live album. I think the work needed some editing, but they chose to issue it as they did, which I accept.

Similarly, there are several parts of Lamb Lies Down that I don't care for, and so I don't listen to them. Musicians offer their music to an audience, and we are allowed to make choices.   As a musician and composer, I recognize that.
...


Hi,

My thoughts are that we need to separate the artist from the fan, or buyer. IF, an artist is worried about the work, and its acceptance to the public, I am not sure that he/she is an artist. Living, based on someone else's ideas and tastes is not a good path to doing well in music, or any art.

The thing that hurts, is people wishing to change the work, because of parts they do not like ... and no artist will EVER live to that, and be a slave to the machine that is the public and the commercial side of things. You can't be free, if you are doing what the public is ... or what the advertising is specifying, because it doesn't sound right or is particularly pretty like pop songs with a dancing girl on it!

The hard part, is the appreciation for PROGRESSIVE MUSIC, a lot of its parts being the "progressive part" of the work, and us here, criticizing and not liking those specific parts. Not understanding things in the arts is not a good reason to say that it is bad, or not be appreciated. Music history has always shown us how some things didn't take for a while, and us looking at parts of a piece of music, to destroy it, is a sad comment on the appreciation of music, or the art form in general. It is a comment about the fan ... not the artist ... and this separation needs to be made, but if you don't like the artist for that part in the piece of music, there is only one person that is not understanding or appreciating the music in its totality ... and it ain't the artist!

Who you gonna give the voice to? To the folks that are going to destroy PROGRESSIVE MUSIC and turn it into the pop crap out there?


Very deep thoughts, M! Thanks, I'll reconsider! Like many, I've fallen into the "track" mode of listening, vs. encompassing the entire work in one sitting. You make valid points.

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I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: June 17 2025 at 06:16
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:


...
Very deep thoughts, M! Thanks, I'll reconsider! Like many, I've fallen into the "track" mode of listening, vs. encompassing the entire work in one sitting. You make valid points.


Hi,

For me, the thing that we call PROGRESSIVE is important. AND what brought us here was the fact that it continued doing so against the grain and the norm, and specially in America, against radio, and the FM Radio band for some 10 years was immense help.

I got to see the music become REAL, and make a life of its own, and win the battle and the war of the radio waves. AM Radio had nothing to stand up for in the end!

But the sad side of things is this board all falling into the commercial side that all PROGRESSIVE music went against in the early days, in order to create something new ... and you have no choice but to go opposite, or against the grain, if you want to be a part of NEW MUSIC.

It feels like the fans, don't want you to know, or hear the new stuff, most of which would come from experimental and weird parts everywhere, and this is where RW and DG are wrong in trashing their early days ... like they learned nothing then! You know that's a crock of custard! And even worse, RW trashing TFTO ... so his own solo work is thought/considered better ... it isn't! Conventional yes, but original, NO. Thus, not progressive!

We forgot what "progressive" meant and was! Plain and simple!

-------------
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: June 17 2025 at 19:22
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:


...
Very deep thoughts, M! Thanks, I'll reconsider! Like many, I've fallen into the "track" mode of listening, vs. encompassing the entire work in one sitting. You make valid points.



It feels like the fans, don't want you to know, or hear the new stuff, most of which would come from experimental and weird parts everywhere, and this is where RW and DG are wrong in trashing their early days ... like they learned nothing then! You know that's a crock of custard! And even worse, RW trashing TFTO ... so his own solo work is thought/considered better ... it isn't! Conventional yes, but original, NO. Thus, not progressive!

We forgot what "progressive" meant and was! Plain and simple!


Man, I hear that! RW may have hated playing it, but he did some amazing composition and playing on TFTO!

As a semi-pro bassist & guitarist, I've played in many settings, all sorts of music....cover tunes, classic rock, punk, power pop, avant garde, satire (Spinal Tap!) and prog. I learned to look for the brilliance in all of it, because music, honestly crafted, always contains gems of brilliance. Sometimes they need a bit of polishing, which is what I taught myself to do.

RW certainly made a reputation for himself as Grumpy Old Rick!   I'm sure he listens to his old TFTO stuff and thinks "Now THAT wasn't half-bad!"



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I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!


Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: June 17 2025 at 19:47
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

When TFTO first came out, I used to listen to Side One (Revealing Science of God), flip the disc to Side Two (The Remembering), and then move on to another band like Genesis. Basically, I was "Yessed out!"

I actually never heard sides 3 and 4 for some time!   As far as I’m concerned, an ideal revised TFTO would be either sides 1 and 2, or sides 1 and 4.

I really love “The Remembering,” although I know it is not the favorite of many on PA.



I really love all four sides. They are each different legs of the journey and bring their own personality, but they have a synergy as well. I listen to most Yes sparingly now because I've heard them so many times, and I subscribe to the "absence makes the heart grow fonder" theory perhaps. But they never disappoint.


Thank you for responding! As a prog musician myself (I play a Rickenbacker bass in Squire's style), I don't so much "listen" to Tales as I study it intently!!

For example, Squire plays a fretless Guild bass with a plectrum to emulate the sound of an orchestra tympani!!   A remarkable musical innovation!!

That said, I never completely embraced "The Ancient" as much as the other sides, although it does contain some of the most melodic movements in the entire work. I need to listen to it some more?

"Relayer....all the dying cried before you..." What lyrics!!   This is Howe playing his Les Paul Junior during a life performance of "Ritual" in Chicago, the Solo Albums tour!


Cool pic! I saw Howe live in 94 at a nightclub show. Just him on a stool. One of the cooler nights on my concert list. I can't remember everything he played, but Mood for a Day and Turn of the Century were awesome. Not so awesome was listening to him trying to sing Heat of the Moment by himself.



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https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sQD8uhpWXCw" rel="nofollow - It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood...Road Rage Edition


Posted By: Steve Wyzard
Date Posted: June 19 2025 at 10:45
Just thought of another: SKY 2 (1980).

Whenever I listen to this album, I always listen to Side 1, Side 3, Side 4, and then the awe-inspiring Side 2: Francis Monkman's "FIFO" Suite.

There's just something about this side-long piece that's so all-consuming that to play something immediately following would diminish its power and trivialize it. "FIFO" is BY FAR the best composition this band's members ever performed on and is an immaculate progressive capstone to the music of the 1970's. I'm pretty sure it was hearing this piece (especially the "Watching the Aeroplanes" movement) that made me begin to lose interest in not only most metallic music, but also a lot of vocally-oriented music as well.


Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: July 03 2025 at 11:55

Also Magma's Udu Wudu works much better for me when listening to "De Futura" (side 2) first.

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                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 04 2025 at 07:01
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

When TFTO first came out, I used to listen to Side One (Revealing Science of God), flip the disc to Side Two (The Remembering), and then move on to another band like Genesis. Basically, I was "Yessed out!"

I actually never heard sides 3 and 4 for some time!   As far as I’m concerned, an ideal revised TFTO would be either sides 1 and 2, or sides 1 and 4.

I really love “The Remembering,” although I know it is not the favorite of many on PA.



I really love all four sides. They are each different legs of the journey and bring their own personality, but they have a synergy as well.
...


Hi,

I listen to all of it, just like I would a Beethoven Symphony, or Tchaikovsky Symphony, or Mahler Symphony.

It is really strange to me, that music is being segmented and dismissed after such a very good history, only to find that rock music couldn't careless about music, and/or respect a lot of the music history.

History is about all kinds of changes, so (in reality) no issue there, but a fan, deciding that the rest of the piece is not worthy is kinda strange to me, and suggests another idea about the appreciation of music, though these days, it is really hard to tell what is the case.

I'm fine with people not liking this or that, but simply because technology has made it easy for us to censor and cut and paste all kinds of music to the way we want, instead of the way it is ... is very scary ... I think in the end, we are intimidating folks that end up having some far out and nice ideas and create something neat and special ... only to find it cut up and dismantled by fans. I kinda look at it as a disrespect for the art form ... we don't do that to painting, for example (hahahaha!!!!) or literature, though the days of Cliff Notes are replaced by Wiki and such, and in the end, the appreciation for the art form, and the work itself is damaged. TFTO is all 4 sides, and they come together beautifully, and I can relate to Side 3, though it seems many don't ... and a tough, scary and weird side is perfect for the "story" and "study" of TFTO, where there would always be a portion that is not exactly as smooth and easy to learn and get through as the rest of the work was ... so in my book, I find the idea rather bad, but I'm not smug enough or distorted to not allow for folks to look, think and feel otherwise ... but the internal search, is not always all wine and roses, and you get your head banged up now and then, and this might just be what the curry man didn't like ... more than likely, which ended up with him trashing the whole thing so his own work would look/feel better and more "composed" than what TFTO was showing ... as if improvisation and experimentation was not such a large portion of 20th century music, which makes one wonder what the cape man (caveman???) really studied and learned in school!

Why does rock music have to ignore music history and just make "hits"?

-------------
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: Wounded_Land
Date Posted: August 04 2025 at 10:49
I _never_ skip tracks...except for the title track on Rush's Roll the Bones. Rush is my favorite band but I absolutely hate that song.


Posted By: Steve Wyzard
Date Posted: August 04 2025 at 11:05
Originally posted by Wounded_Land Wounded_Land wrote:

I _never_ skip tracks...except for the title track on Rush's Roll the Bones. Rush is my favorite band but I absolutely hate that song.


This was the Rush album that made me stop buying Rush albums.


Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: August 04 2025 at 12:29
Originally posted by Wounded_Land Wounded_Land wrote:

I _never_ skip tracks...except for the title track on Rush's Roll the Bones. Rush is my favorite band but I absolutely hate that song.


The two worst songs on RtB are "Neurotica" and "You Bet Your Life." I guess Rupert Hine didn't have the good sense to tell them to scrap them and write two new songs.


Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

This was the Rush album that made me stop buying Rush albums.


I hope you didn't skip Counterparts, the very next one. That was a return to form.

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https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay


Posted By: Wounded_Land
Date Posted: August 04 2025 at 12:45
"Neurotica" and "You Bet Your Life" aren't great either, I agree, but I find "Roll the Bones" just insufferably annoying. That whole album really wasn't that good.

But I agree, Counterparts was a real return to form. Love that one.



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