Flute fatigue
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Forum Name: Prog Music Lounge
Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=135191
Printed Date: July 19 2025 at 01:04
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Topic: Flute fatigue
Posted By: Gnik Nosmirc
Subject: Flute fatigue
Date Posted: July 07 2025 at 06:53
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I've been wondering lately why so many contemporary prog songs feature flutes. I don't remember old prog relying so much on flute, aside perhaps from Focus or Tull. Sometimes it's meaningful, as with Agusa or Jordsjø, but it often comes across as a cheap filler. It's like some prog artists think to themselves: "hey, so we need to sound rock, but we also need to sound artsy... What should we do? Throw in some flute!".  What do you think? Also, do you agree with Focus being the best prog flute? ------------- Jazz Rock / Fusion · Canterbury · Psych / Space Rock · Krautrock · Prog Electronic · RIO / Avant-Prog · Post Rock |
Replies:
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 07 2025 at 07:10
Hi, Goodness ... isn't a flute an instrument that plays music? Not sure, that it is used more today than it was yesterday in prog or otherwise. Instruments come and go and folks think up ideas about the pipers! No instrument has anything to do with "contemporary prog" any more than another, although the whole definition these days is almost centered exclusively on a guitar player and bad drumming and lesser used instruments are ignored. Again, the instruments used are NOT what the whole thing of "progressive" is all about ... which has become more of a commercial definition, than it has been a serious musical definition. Thijs Van leer is not quite the biggest or the best out there in the flute, and I would even suggest he is a better keyboard player than he is a flute player, since he can do funny antics when playing keyboards, and not as much when playing the flute. I think his best playing, might have been his first solo albums, where he played the flute exclusively, to a lot of classical music, and those 3 albums (Introspection) are worth having, and ARE NOT contemporary prog at all. But I tend to think that the best flute players are in the jazz area of things, because the "progressive" and "fan-rock" thing has become so limiting and boring ... the flute comes on when there would be a guitar passage, for example. It isn't an instrument used as a part of the whole thing you almost could say, though this is not always the issue or the case. As for "prog flute" ... I'm still looking for "prog dinner" so I can have a proper meal without ....... blah and blah ... and other progressive experimental instruments. All instruments can BE PROGRESSIVE depending on how they are used. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Gnik Nosmirc wrote:Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: July 07 2025 at 08:18
Have you heard King Crimson's early albums? A lot of flute on "I Talk to the Wind".And for me, Ian Anderson plays the best prog flute. |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: July 07 2025 at 08:19
| Surely some kind of percussion came first (well and singing), but the flute is probably about as old as mankind. It's timeless, it's mysterious, it's nature and a thing of wonder. Some do it better than others, but you can say that about any instrument and anything else. The more flute the better. |
Posted By: Gnik Nosmirc
Date Posted: July 07 2025 at 10:01
The first part of your comment is pretty pointless. I know prog isn’t tied to any specific instrument, and I wasn’t trying to suggest that flute is required for prog. In fact, my point was the opposite: I was saying that some modern prog uses the flute in a dull way to make their songs seem “artsy,” as if flute were mandatory. Ironically, you made the same point in the second part of your comment. “Prog flute” just refers to a prog song that leans heavily on the flute. I don’t understand why you’re so upset. It’s just a term. Thanks for explaining that any instrument can be progressive depending on how it’s used. It’s like you think I’m only now discovering what prog is. Sorry for the passive-aggressive tone, but I really don’t get why you’re so upset about my observation. I just think the flute tends to feel cliché in the context of some contemporary prog. So what?
Great song. It's more jazz than prog though.
Sure, but just because it’s ancient doesn’t mean it always sounds great. More flute doesn’t automatically mean better. Like any instrument, it depends on how and when it’s used. It can feel out of place, cringe, or cliché, just like more sax doesn't mean better jazz. ------------- Jazz Rock / Fusion · Canterbury · Psych / Space Rock · Krautrock · Prog Electronic · RIO / Avant-Prog · Post Rock |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: July 07 2025 at 10:04
| ^I wrote basically the same, didn't I? |
Posted By: Gnik Nosmirc
Date Posted: July 07 2025 at 10:14
You did.  I'm going crazy in my head is all. Ha I probably shouldn't have written this stupid topic. Why am I being upset for nothing? Sorry guys.  ------------- Jazz Rock / Fusion · Canterbury · Psych / Space Rock · Krautrock · Prog Electronic · RIO / Avant-Prog · Post Rock |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: July 07 2025 at 11:08
| Maybe I'm listening to the wrong newer prog bands but I don't hear the flute much in modern prog. |
Posted By: Floydoid
Date Posted: July 07 2025 at 11:15
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Other than Focus and Jethro Tull the first band that springs to mind is Stackridge. ------------- "Christ, where would rock & roll be without feedback?" - D. Gimour |
Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: July 07 2025 at 11:29
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Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: July 07 2025 at 11:30
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Is it really "so many" flute today, or wasn't it enough before? Is it even enough today? ------------- I make typos so you see I'm not a machine, but I may be a machine pretending to not be a machine. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 07 2025 at 11:45
Hi, I probably need to reword what I wanted to state. I would never think that you suggested that flute is a requirement ... in essence no instrument (specifically) is a requirement, with the exception of all the listing these days, having too much "progrock" and many of those, in my ears, have a tendency to cut down the number of instruments into something simpler, which, might, on the odd days, make it difficult to include other instruments. What I was thinking about, didn't come out, and it was that in Europe, there is a wider appreciation for a variety of music, and you will likely hear more instruments (including the flute and woodwinds) than otherwise, like America, where the radio/rock sound is more important, but seeing new bands listed in the Japanese and Italian threads (for example) and many of the new things shown are extremely conventional, and I can not even name one of them I heard that had a flute!
Either way we look at it, it might end up not sounding right, and the artsy part generally won't sound right or just be fairly boring and small.
I think there is a side of this that is kinda funny, or weird, depending on how we look at it. If it is given the spotlight, it usually gets a nice part ... but if it is basically a "filler" then it falls down in my book. When it comes to flute and woodwinds, I'm more of a Bloomdido Bad De Grasse person ... and all his life, his material in GONG was special, and as he continues playing and experimenting these days, almost even better work. But, unlike the majority of flute players, the work in GONG allowed some more freedom and work than most flute dessert stuff we get to hear, in general. I like how the flute is used in Agusa ... and in this case it is a major instrument, not a background thing, which is how I separate and define things. Another great example, over the years in so many albums ... PP get his album listing please ... is Mel Collins ... by the time we get done reading how much he has done, we will be out of breath. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: I prophesy disaster
Date Posted: July 07 2025 at 12:21
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Van der Graaf Generator music has a considerable amount of flute. And I very much like the way flute is used in Van der Graaf Generator music. ------------- No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man. |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: July 07 2025 at 12:21
Mel Collins was my favorite change to the last King Crimson line up. He really added something new to the sound and the old material. ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 07 2025 at 14:10
mmmmhhhh!!!!!... unlike Crimson (50/50 fl/sx), I tend to think of VdGG as a sax band rather than a flute band (my guess is 15/85), but my fave from them is definitely Undercover Man ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: July 07 2025 at 18:57
| Just about every prog band features guitar... is there any fatigue for guitar in prog? or for keyboards? |
Posted By: proggy123
Date Posted: July 07 2025 at 21:59
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The use of the flute is what got me addicted to Italian prog in the first place. I like it so much that I decided to pick it up over a year ago just for fun. I debated picking up the guitar after playing it for 13 years and then putting it down over 10 years ago. I decided instead to just take up the flute since it was a totally different instrument and it seemed that everyone and their brother had a guitar.
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 07 2025 at 22:19
Hi, That's usually my point ... it just gets to be rather boring, when so many things end up sounding the same. C'mon, we can start with guitar fatigue real quick, and probably never get done mentioning different folks and bands! But the bigger issue, for me, would be how those instruments get used ... when they are all the same (so to speak) and the design/formula for the work keeps the guitar in the same place, and the keyboards likewise ... not to mention that there is not a whole lot that is new in how they are used ... oh, excuse me ... a different pedal! By comparison, we could easily say that Vangelis, Ryuichi and Keith were quite special even with a band ... rarely did you not noticed them. And this is where a lot of the "progressive" thing has fallen off ... the musicians are just following an idea and don't always have a strong idea of what their music itself is about, except an idea somewhere in the universe or words! That's not to say that the above mentioned three had it figured out, but by the time we hear them, it is so different that it is impossible for us to not think that it was intentionally so, instead of just following the formula du jour like so many bands do in the listings here. I guess that is supposed to get them noticed somewhere, right? Good luck? ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Floydoid
Date Posted: July 07 2025 at 23:57
Without guitars there would be no rock music as we know it, and without guitars & keyboards there would be no prog. ------------- "Christ, where would rock & roll be without feedback?" - D. Gimour |
Posted By: Starfighter
Date Posted: July 08 2025 at 00:44
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Scratching through my shelves: Hawkwind Steve Hackett Floh De Cologne Oktober Eloy Niemen Annexus Quam Gong King Crimson Mythos Drosselbart Amon Düül II Novalis Jethro Tull Van Der Graaf Generator Virus Juds Gallery Topas Hanuman Brainstorm PFM Cos Latte e Miele Brainticket Semiramis Ibliss Il Rovescio Della Medaglia Fusion Orchestra These are some bands from the classic era that used flute in their sound. I'm sure there are many others. |
Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: July 08 2025 at 01:31
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Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: July 08 2025 at 19:53
I was thinking the same thing. Then today I listened to Jupiter Fungas for the first time and... too much flute. Love it as a flavour though.------------- "The wind is slowly tearing her apart" "Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 09 2025 at 10:02
Flute has certainly become a big cliché. The one example don't like is Flambourough Head where the blond bombshell plays her flute alone between tracks or the intro of tracks and appears not to be able to play with the band itself - she sings during the tracks, though. very formulaic on record, but it's even more flagrant on stage (saw them twice, 15 to 20 years apart) ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: July 09 2025 at 10:17
I don't know if you know Moon Letters but it seems they use some flute also. I'll have to check out Jupiter Fungus. |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: July 09 2025 at 11:03
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It seems this is now about flute in prog rather than flute fatigue, so: Supersister's Sacha van Geest is one of the best never mentioned flute players in prog. Well, he's also more interesting than most often-mentioned flutists. Camel's Supertwister is actually a Sacha van Geest-hommage - or at least the track got it's name from them after they went on tour together. Amazing band. They kind of created their own Canterbury sound in the Netherlands and too early out of the gate for them to actually have taken inspiration from the Canterbury bands. |
Posted By: Homotopy
Date Posted: July 10 2025 at 15:19
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I am pretty sure modern bands use less flute. I just randomly looked at top20 on PA from 1974 and 2024 -- 13 albums with flute from 1974 vs 7 from 2024. I'd argue that on average the gap is much bigger as only those albums make it to the top here that do sound like classic ones, hence have flute. |
Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: July 10 2025 at 15:46
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Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: July 13 2025 at 18:39
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So much of contemporary Prog, even going back decades, is simply following along what the pioneers of the 70s did. This is not to say great music has not been produced because it has. I for one get tired of standard combo arrangements and long for unusual instruments. Flute and violin occupy a middle ground - they are not standard rock instruments but are fairly common. Since Prog has a connection to Classical, and there are lots of flutes in Classical, the connection seems an obvious one. Let's also remember that an instrument is merely a way of conveying a particular sound for the music. Flutes add a dimension to Prog music that is not found in conventional Rock or Pop music, and this is why it is pretty common. ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: July 14 2025 at 18:30
Van Der Graaf Generator and Apocalyptica would have something to say about that. I know, Apocalyptica is not prog at all, but more than just rock they are metal, without guitars at all, and they are heavy. VDGG themselves can be very heavy in their own way without guitars too. And then, perhaps stretching it a bit too much, but I might add Corvus Corax... yes, they are not even rock, but folk, yet I would say their music rocks all the same... without guitars nor keyboards. |
Posted By: RockHound
Date Posted: July 15 2025 at 05:59
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No possibility of flute fatigue here. My uncle Wally was a professional flautist who played with the Cleveland Orchestra and was head of the music department at Youngstown State University. My grandfather and uncle played flute together for the Ice Follies way back in the days when Sonja Henie was skating. It's in the family blood, and most welcome in prog. My uncle loved to ape Ian Anderson-I remember him so fondly. On another note, his wife, a.k.a. Aunt Marceline, was a professional keyboardist who did live recitals on WCLV, which is the classical station in Cleveland. She could instantly whip off Wakeman and Emerson riffs when I would play them for her. She played at the Unitarian Church, where she had a Wakemanesque keyboard array that included a grand piano, Mozart Piano, harpsichord, pipe organ, and some electronic keyboards. At home she would dazzle us with her talent on the grand piano and Mozart piano she had in the living room. I miss them so much. |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: July 15 2025 at 06:34
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I love the use of flute in prog, and classical music; been listening to the latter as long as I have progressive rock. Flute is important in Symphony recordings when a composer is using sonorities to relate a lyricism or emotion in orchestral music, and it is wonderful to listen to. As for examples in prog, many good ones have been already mentioned, but I would add Italian prog band Osanna, who used flute to great effect in albums like L'Uomo and Milano Calibro 9 |