NEVER, now matter how lost it looks, theres always something new, something strange something thats worth saving the album for.

For example, i Would says, Guilmours Floyd, but there's learning to fly, sorrow, Coming back to life, high hopes, what do you want from me? and so and so, thats worth saving both albums. About A new album, I truly consider the option of a new show, of even (let's put our hands together and pray to our lord) a bands reunion, for Syd Barrets death, I know it would suck, but poor madcap has been sick for a long time, and anything leading to a floyd re-union, can't be that bad 

They never knew of jumping no shark at all!!!!!!!

I agree with Land... they never jumped the shark!!!

Well maybe when Roger put Pink Floyd's name on The Final Cut... but that was just a small moment out of an otherwise flawless career.... I will go on record as saying I just love AMLOR... even the controversial "Dogs of War".  Actually I love that song even more on DSOT... but I still love both of the Post-Waters albums.  Actually The Division Bell is my third favorite PF album after Animals and DSOTM...

Now if we could just convince Dave that he needs to do another one... that would be excellent!!  I just love his guitar on Alan Parson's new cd.... it still wails like no other...

 I said after Roger left. While the Wall and Final Cut seemed more like Roger Water solo's(retrospectively of course) they are both still solid Albums.

A Momentary Lapse of Reason was fairly mediocre and lacked the darkness and excellent lyrics that normally accompanied Pink Floyd Albums from 73' and on. Roger Waters defined it best when he labeled the album as a decent forgery....I Agree(100%)

The Division Bell is a better effort no doubt but there has always been one thing that drove me crazy about that album. David Gilmour's singing has for some reason been reduced to speaking through the lyrics rather than singing  them. Perhaps old age hasn't been kind to the mans vocal chords.

It has always bugged me a great deal that Echoes(the compilation) had 5 songs from those 2 albums. I could have forgiven 1 from each but I see 5 as a David Gilmour ego driven stroke fest. There was definately better material to choose from.

Still with all that said Pink Floyd never truly sold out like Genesis, Yes and perhaps even ELP. For that i will always hold a great deal of respect for them

In this case I go with the majoprity of the members who have voted here i believe PF never jumped the shark.

Of course there are great and other not so good or even bad albums (Especially when Roger left), but the sound of Floyd was always present in their music. Surely they changed, but they never sold ot as many other prog' bands did in some moment of their careers.

Even their worst album has a couple of great tracks.

Iván

I voted on 'The Final Cut' moment, but it was only momentary. The band sold itself out into the intellectually rich but musically poor musical world of Roger Waters. It was time Waters left, and so he did... and then Gillmour was able to do some great stuff under the PF moniker. Sure, he was the last guy to join the band, but from day one his guitar playing and occasiona lwriting allowed PF shine in full splendour in the 70s.

Why 'The Final Cut'? Because it was the not so inventive continuation to 'The Wall', making itself a mere 'Wall' self-parody. Pity, since there are some good songs in there.

Regards.

I see Pink Floyd as four bands (really?) separated by crucial personnel and stylistic differences:

The original Barrett Floyd, a whimsical psychedelic band with incredibly unique acid pop songs, very much a part of the times...but one of the best of its era. I guess hardcore Syd fans would say that Gilmour ruined the band, but the truth is that Syd ruined himself and the band incredibly managed to do a phoenix turn.

The Democratic Floyd (probably a misnomer, but the best I could come up with), an experimental, almost avant-garde band but with deep ties to the blues and pastoral acoustic Englishness. A band truly expanding its horizons, and the horizons of anyone who listened. The most obvious choices to represent the period are Meddle and Ummagumma, but the More OST is possibly an even more pure representation.

The Thoughtful Floyd (or the Waters Floyd, although his domination was less complete at first), a more introspective and chillingly critical band with increasing radio potential despite no punches being pulled...the initial warm eeriness of DSOTM develops into a more hard-hitting but isolated stance, with the songwriting skills finally rivalling their debut album after a decade of more sound-based exploration. I don't care for the Wall or the Final Cut, personally, but that may just be the contempt bred of familiarity.

The Friendly Floyd (or the Gilmour Floyd, or even the Pop Floyd), a less confrontational but increasingly accessible group of mellow middle-aged professionals who know how to compose and perform like few others; they managed to regain the warmth and atmosphere that dwindled a bit after DSOTM even if the actual songs were less essential. Like the Rolling Stones, they can still put on a great show and even release a song or two that stands up to their formidable early discography. My least favorite of the four (although I prefer Division Bell to either the Wall or Final Cut) but I'd still stop well short of dismissing them.

richardh wrote: I never particularly liked DSOTM but I've always liked The Wall.I recently bought Animals and I like that a lot as well.I also like Meddle.So that basically leaves me confused I suppose

I agree about DSOTM. I think there was some good ideas on that album, but perhaps they hadn't matured as enough as conceptual songwriters to really pull it off. It seemed to me that they were trying to make a 'wierd' album.

I much prefer 'Meddle'  'WYWH' 'Animals' and 'The Wall'

Ah they were rubbish after Waters left.

I can't stand his solo stuff and think he's a miserable, bitter, thoroughly unpleasant indiviodual but Floyd were pretty crap without Roger.

Where's the tension, the angst, the push and pull between magalomaniac miserabilist Water and curmudgeonly axe hero Gilmour. That's the dynamic that made such sweet music from Meddle to The Wall.

Okay, The Final Cut was pushing it a little (it's singularly the most depressing record I've ever heard) but even it has gems like most of the first side and the title track.

Afterwards what was left. Dave Gilmour hooking up with Dream Academy frontman and protege Nick Laid Clowes to write some hopeless words, a drummer who couldn't play anymore and a keyboard player more fragile than a roomful of china. Momentary Lapse is bland and vacuous, Division Bell even more so...

David Gilmour is probably my favourite guitar player on the planet but he's always been a songwriter of very intermittent quality. His solo albums are wishy washy affairs and his guardianship of Floyd has been characterised by the same mediocrity.

I'm no Waters apologist (Radio KAOS makes Division Bell look like Sgt Pepper's) but neither Floyd nor Waters were ever any good without each other. 

And David seems to finally have realised it by putting Floyd out to pasture and setting himself up as an ageing gunslinger for hire. Good man. 

They should all have called it a day after The Final Cut.

Velvetclown wrote: I agree with our Irish friend, same thing with : Fish-Marillion Gabriel-Genesis Neal Morse-Spock´s Beard Some people just can´t be replaced

Wow I find myself agreeing with the Clover Clad fiend on this one!!

I disagree: AMLOR and TDB are way better than TFC... while not being masterpieces, indeed. But generally speaking, tracks such as 'On the Turning Away', 'Terminal Frost', 'Dogs of War', the two instrumentals of TDB, 'High Hopes', and TDB's track 3 (I forgot the title, the one with prominent acoustic guitar and that eerie carnival-like interlude) are good enough to give artistic dignity to those albums, and make them better tha TFC. At least, IMHO... 

I so disagree... The thought that they might of quit after Roger left and we wouldn't have gotten TDB... thats just too sad to contemplate.

Those that say the lyrics to AMLOR or TDB don't measure up to earlier PF works in just looking for grim.  There is nothing wrong with the words on the last 2 PF albums.  AMLOR had "On the Turning Away"... I don't care who wrote it... the words are very emotional, poignant and beautiful.  Sorrow is some of David's finest work... guitar and lyrics..  Atleast when I listen to AMLOR and TDB.. I can hear FLoyd... unlike The Final Cut... where I can't hear them at all.  And that guitar opening from "Coming Back to Life"... thats a sheer moment in ecstasy!

"No more turning away
From the weak and the weary
No more turning away
From the coldness inside
Just a world that we all must share
It's not enough just to stand and stare
Is it only a dream that there'll be
No more turning away?"

Gabriel and Genesis - tough call. I still like some of the stuff on Trick and Wind and Wuthering and Duke's great. Even (and I know I'm gonna get shot for this) Abacab has it's moments (title track, Dodo)  But you're right ... it's the same thing, Gabriel brought a tension, some slightly crazed vision that pushed the others to the edge of their abilities to fnd the soundtrack to accompany him. When Collins took over it was, as that famous expression goes, kinda like being savaged by a dead sheep. No drive, no internal turmoil, just a watered down version. Occasionally that distills into something potent but by and large its pretty insipid.

As for Marillion and Spock's Beard - can't comment don't know enough about either (once had script and fugazi but ditched them pretty quick) but I have signed up for current Marillion's free sampler out of curiosity...

And, finally..... clover clad?????

I AM SHOCKED..I am surprised all you guys outside of the US know what Happy Days and jumping the shark mean!!!

Sometimes I forget most of you do not hail within the US

gdub411 wrote: I AM SHOCKED..I am surprised all you guys outside of the US know what Happy Days and jumping the shark mean!!! Sometimes I forget most of you do not hail within the US

It's amazing how much I've learnt since we got TV here last month!

I'm still amazed that they are actually other prog bands besides ELP, Pink Floyd & Yes...  well, so I've heard here anyway... 

I have to admit that my interest to the band decreased when RW left...When I heard TFC, I felt something (not someone) was missing... It was the great teaming when the band played together, so for me TFC was not a really good album, just because of that...It's noticeable how the rest of the band tore apart each other, definetly that was not PF...However, Gilmour's era is not excellent , yet not the worst... You can hear great guitar works and progressive sound in those records...

Hence.. They never jump the shark

gdub411 wrote: Well I didn't mean to offend anyone I just didn't think a show like Happy Days(so-so at it's best) would merit attention from anyone outside of the US

No offence taken G, just having a banter!

Well, I can say, I can never heard of no happy days, or jumping the shark. But  I sometimes catch beverly hills 90210 (90251, ejej, why?), does tht count????

No, now I think we all  know what jumping the shark is because there was a previouse Jumping the shark thread were it explain the hole shark episode, PATETICO, BOLOOOOOO!

As long as you provincial foreigners got to see David Hasselhoff, we're well represented. Although I think he had more of a witty, metrosexual weltschmerz in Knight Rider- Baywatch was a little too self-indulgently artsy for me.

Even though 'Momentary Lapse Of Reason' is below par AOR material, in my opinion, it's not fair to say that they jumped the shark with that album- else you would be disgregarding 'The Division Bell' and the excellent 'Pulse' live set.

Therefore, I voted for 'never'.

Snow Dog wrote: What  does jumping the shark mean?

Will no one answer my question?

SD,

Here's a couple of threads which explain, read the first post in each.

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=270 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=270

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1185 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1185

And here's a poll re Yes on the same subject.

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1387 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1387

I dont think PF 'jumped the shark'. "The Final Cut" was an irritating blip in what until then had been some amazing pieces of work. IMO Roger Waters departure was inevitable - I mean, how much more depressed can one get and write music to compliment that mood??

The following albums after TFC were great with some very memorable standout tracks. I, like many others, am fond of "The Division Bell" and "A Momentary Lapse of Reason" . The PF sound has been consistant since David Gilmour joined and did not suffer in the absence of RW who, in my opinion, is highly overrated as the driving force behind PF.