s1ipp3ry wrote: Heres a link to a site where you can go crazy downloading all the very best progressive rock files  and  prog matel files  too  , they have some rare hard tio find files like Anglagard  so on ..  it costs about  10 cents  a song  thats  all  and its legal   click  here http://www.mp3search.ru/ - http://www.mp3search.ru/   and let me know  what  you  think !   Regards s1ip

Unfortunately wether or not it is legal to download from this site in your country (laws change from country to country), I think you will definately find that they have uploaded their music ILLEGALLY. Selling music for which the copywrite belongs to someone else should be illegal, but BUYING it, (ie giving some one money -albeit a small ammount per track- from someone who has not recorded it and produced it themselves)  should definately be morally wrong...........surely???

There are arguments as to wether or not "art" should be "free" to all.............. these arguments will run adn run, but thing is sure true, its is WRONG to give money to pirates for music. It is so incredibly damaging to the industry, it is damaging to the artists and small labels, the only person who does well out of this is the pirate.

crazy crazy crazy.

Vompatti wrote: Are you sure it's legal? It's Russian.

It is "sort of legal" ... IN RUSSIA.

chopper wrote: Sorry guys, mp3search.ru is not legal. Well, it may be legal in Russia, but they do not pay royalties to the artists. I have this on good authority from one of the artists whose albums are on this site.

If the bands are not getting money for these downloads, I'm not doing it. 

I wish more bands would have dl's from their sites.  I hate giving money to record companies.

I know personally of bands being ripped off (badly) by this (particular russian) site. Please avoid it!

A lot of bands do have downloads on their sites, or even allow tracks to be used by sites such as this one.

Other than that, isn't that what we have these discussions for, to exchange info? I know we have different opinons (just check the MV thread!) but generally, you get to know who here has similar tastes to your own and from personal experience I havn't bought a 'turkey' yet after reccomendations from PA when I read the reviews from folk with taste similar to my own!

 (big hoorah for PA!)

I've left this thread up, as it is useful that people are made aware that the site mentioned does NOT offer legal downloads.

Please bear in mind that Progarchives should not be used to share information promoting illegal sites.

(I appreciate in this case, the originator of the thread genuinely thought the site was legal).

does that make it morally right to steal? or does it just make you feel clever?

what do you do for a living? would you do it for free, knowing that someone else was making a profit out of your work.................... I think NOT!

prog-chick wrote: does that make it morally right to steal? or does it just make you feel clever? what do you do for a living? would you do it for free, knowing that someone else was making a profit out of your work.................... I think NOT!

Things are really tight here in the UK.

In the University where I study they don't even let us use skype!

Now what's that? Illegal....? Maybe....

Making money by suggesting you UK telephony companies....? MAYBE.....

and also think of that: when we were younger (well, some are still very young, I mean 15,16)

didn't we use to copy from a friend's CD to a tape? was that legal? we NEEDED MUSIC!

anyway, I can understand persons' problems about that, but you cannot prevent someone from

sharing his cds with you, or can you....?

I agree, in "the old days" we all copied a mates vinyl onto cassette, but 9 times out of 10 we bought the vinyl when the cash came our way cos the quality was so poor, also if I bought a record, I might make maybe 2 copies, for friends, now I understand the'whats the difference' argument, the difference is this- a cd obtained either legally or illegally can be uploaded onto the net and shared with literally THOUSANDS of people without imparing the quality, and as that quality is so good, and folk are slamming them onto their pod they think "hey, I got this album on my pod, why buy a cd copy to gather dust?" and they sometimes go on to think, "great album, I will see if I can download more of this bands stuff" usually of course revisiting sites of dubious lagal and moral ethics.

Big Difference.

It's especially a big difference when you are PAYING for a download, even if it is as cheap as chips, you are still paying someone OTHER than the artist for the music.

I know of one band who's new album had been copied from advance promo's and was being sold as a download 3 weeks before the release........... abuse of trust from those who were lucky enough to recieve a promo, and untold damage to the band. I personally know of nearly a hundred people who downloaded this album before the release, if I know that many, then there must be many more, lets say its ten fold.......... ok a thousand albums might not seem to add up to a whole pile of beans, but it does make a huge difference believe me! and this was all BEFORE the release.

UNETHICAL, IMMORAL, ILLEGAL, & UNJUST.

Because we now have the world at our finger tips there is a section in society that want it all NOW, way back in the days of vinyl, I remember waiting to buy an album,(as a teen this would mean extra chores for the cash, or saving my meagre pennies!) collecting that record from the store, and boy the anticipation added SO much to the excitment, to the whole EVENT that was buying a record.

Call me old fashioned, (you wont be the first) but I would rather wait for something, than steal it!

Downloading might be a great thing for the big names, but for the smaller independant labels it is a slow and painful death, most of these guys do put some stuff on their own sites, it is to incourage you to buy it, not to go searching for the russian mafia to buy it from.

I read over and over again on this (and other proggie forums) folk lamenting the almost underground nature of our beloved music, stop downloading and I think you will be surprised and how many albums are sold, and the increase in profile of prog. Unless of course you wish to keep it underground in an elitist fashion? The downloaders being the master to the musician who is an unwitting servant?

And remember, it is not until you are prepared to ply your trade for free, knowing someone else is making money from it, so that you lay awake at night in fear and darkness becuase the mortgage can't get paid, the debts are buliding with the knowledge of such injustice........ when you are prepared to do this yourself, then it might be considered acceptable for you to download. But until I then, pay up, and stop reaping the benefits of great music for free!

Crazy crazy crazy!

(the "you" I referred to in this post is not meant to be a specific person, so chill ok!)

PCx

smell spam??? I have strong beliefs for sure, but I don't think thats so wrong.

I could always sweep the issue under the carpet and watch the music I love disapear...........thats sticking my head in the sand, I think "spam" is preferential don't you?

goose wrote: No one (much) shares files that are the same quality as CD. MP3 throws away at least half of the information even in the best possible circumstances, and they're generally less useful. I don't try and justify sharing music, because of course it is illegal, but on the other hand when I have some money I will buy all the hard copies I can. Right now I'm a student..!

My recommendation: Napster music flat rate.

prog-chick wrote: does that make it morally right to steal? or does it just make you feel clever? what do you do for a living? would you do it for free, knowing that someone else was making a profit out of your work.................... I think NOT!

Excuse me but if it wasnt for "stealing" i wouldnt own a quarter of the albums i do now. I've said it so many times before but i guess i have to repeat it: music sharing is the best thing to happen to music in years. I dont care if Lars Ulrich cant afford his new gold plated ferrari the fact is bands who would otherwise be swept under the rug forever are getting their due praise. Do you think Comus - First Utterance would be getting the recognition it does now if it wasnt for the internet? I LOVE buying CD's but i also love hearing them before i fork out my money for them. Face it, the only people who lose money from file sharing is huge record companies, and i dont have a lick of sympathy for them.

And yes, i feel pretty clever.

Oh come on 'prog-chick' your arguements are going in circles. Please tell me how you or anyone you know is directly affected by file sharing, and please elaborate on how it is stealing. File sharing gets lesser known bands names out there, people hear the MP3's and buy the cds. I know this because i do it alot. I download a CD, love it and i go and buy it. Do you think i would have bought that CD on the album cover alone? Or maybe i could go check out my local "prog scene"?

You certainly have strong views on this, but if you realised how much file sharing has done for music im sure youd change your mind.

Just to fill you in - record companies take a VAST majority of their bands record sale profit, so the artists dont even see this money that is supposedly being stolen. Whos the theif here?

Ok, I will be open with you, I work for a record label. I work VERY hard. I know exactly how much money an artist gets per cd, and I also know that it is MORE than they get if the album is downloaded instead. I also know if an artist does not meet a 'quota' of sales then they will be dumped by the label or distributor.

I understand and except that the internet has been revoloutionary for the promotion of music (amongst other things!) In fact it never ceases to fill me with wonder that here I am the other side of the atlantic debating an issue with you, I really do. I love that I can share my opinions on music, chat about something I love with likeminded folk, cos yes, you are right there is not a great prog scene in my village!

I don't except that I am going in circles, I stand solid on this issue.

If you swap a music file, and enjoy what you hear and buy the album GREAT, FANTASTIC, but please, please accept that there are thousands, probably millions of folk out there that will download a swapped file think that they have got something for free/cheap and feel pretty clever/smug............ with absoloutely NO intention of actually buying the product. THAT IS A GENUINE FACT!

and YES I do know, personally, musicians that have been effected by the negative side of the internet, as well as knowing many who enjoy the positive.

I also know folk who were happy getting music from p2p without really realising that there were taking something for nothing, I know someone who has downloaded over a thousand albums, (without later buying them) and thought you were 'allowed to cos it was on the net' Niave, yes, but it happens. it happens an awful blinkin lot.

The downloading argument is intense, some one recently said to me, that if they went to the bakers and licked all the donuts, only buying the ones they liked, it would not be long before that baker would be in trouble. This is a valid a nd real problem.

If you buy all the albums you download then thats ok. and I think that more folk should stand up together on this issue to educate the niave or simply misinformed.

Downloading without buying is theft. There is no excape from that. Most bands have downloads freely availble. If I hear of a band I like the sound of here, I look the up, and try get a mp3 from the band legally, if I like it I might then buy the album, but I base that choice on the bits that I do have the opportunity to hear.........and yes sometimes I buy a turkey! If I hear of a band here and am unable to get to hear some by a legal method then I make an educated choice, some I buy, some I don't.

I don't have a lot of money to spend on cd's, my wish list is generally greater than my have list, but thats ok with me. I am not motivated by selfishness. I have more music than I could listen to in a month, there is no rush for more, just want. and want can be controlled surely?

I might sound like a crusader on this issue. But I believe in it strongly. Ido  not start threads about this, I joined in on a thread where the site mentioned was decidedly dodgey, and I wanted to inform.

PCx

Thanks for that info Chopper, I was beginning to feel like a lone music-nazi!!!

con safo wrote: . But the amount of good music sharing has done for lesser known bands cant be denied.

Yes I think the sharing of a file that belongs to you, ie. mp3 available on the website of a band signed or unsigned, can be a incredibly positive thing. But I don't agree that this makes the theft or illegal downloading ok!

I think we should agree to differ on this point.

yes, comparing a 15 dollar cd with a donut is crazy, the musician has SO much more to lose!

They are not breaking any laws in Russia -- right now. Also the import of the music is not illegal in the US -- right now. Both may change soon but -- right now-- it is legal.

con safo wrote: Yes but some bands would have little to no chance of selling their albums if it wasnt for internet publicity, so they have alot to gain as well.

publicity is different from having your music stolen. Get over the publicity thing.

@ Catholic Flame. To take something that is copywrited, and sell it in this way  (even at low prices) is AGAINST copywrite law, therefore ilegal.

There is NO justification for downloading music from a site unethically. I have not heard one argument for this practise that is not just weak reasoning to create a conscience clearer.

It is a fact that it is damaging to business, to livliehoods, and to the continuation of bands that we love. It is extremely damaging to folk who make music.

PLEASE DON'T DO IT!

prog-chick wrote: con safo wrote: Yes but some bands would have little to no chance of selling their albums if it wasnt for internet publicity, so they have alot to gain as well. publicity is different from having your music stolen. Get over the publicity thing. @ Catholic Flame. To take something that is copywrited, and sell it in this way  (even at low prices) is AGAINST copywrite law, therefore ilegal. There is NO justification for downloading music from a site unethically. I have not heard one argument for this practise that is not just weak reasoning to create a conscience clearer. It is a fact that it is damaging to business, to livliehoods, and to the continuation of bands that we love. It is extremely damaging to folk who make music. PLEASE DON'T DO IT!

But the point is it is not illegal. They are not breaking the laws in Russia. The import to the US is not illegal.

Legal and ethical are two seperate issues. What is legal is not always just and justice is not always legal.

ok, someone I know has had his music uploaded onto this russian site, where it is being sold to folk all over the world. Legal action and advice has been sought, it IS illegal, and steps are being taken.

but it is like a bush fire, put one out, another springs up.

prog-chick wrote: ok, someone I know has had his music uploaded onto this russian site, where it is being sold to folk all over the world. Legal action and advice has been sought, it IS illegal, and steps are being taken. but it is like a bush fire, put one out, another springs up.

Is the import illegal in the UK?

to up load copywrite material for commercial or file share downloading is illegal without the permission of the copywrite owner. To download said material is illegal in some countries, not in others.

The whole practice is unethical & morally wrong.

The practice has become SO common place tho, that there is a generation of computer kids who think that it is ok cos others do it too, for who the culture of downloading is so commonplace that they have probably not asked themselves questions about this practice.  I am on a bit of a crusade, I will acknowledge that. I  do know I am annoying folk whole heartedly, But I do feel that this is an important issue, and one that folk should understand. Ignorance is no defence, but is more defence than blatant theft. Really it's the blatant thieves that get my goat, the rest just need informing!

goose wrote: I'd expect export, rather than import would be illegal.

Export from Russia to another country or the Russian site importing the music for distribution?

prog-chick wrote: to up load copywrite material for commercial or file share downloading is illegal without the permission of the copywrite owner. To download said material is illegal in some countries, not in others. The whole practice is unethical & morally wrong. The practice has become SO common place tho, that there is a generation of computer kids who think that it is ok cos others do it too, for who the culture of downloading is so commonplace that they have probably not asked themselves questions about this practice.  I am on a bit of a crusade, I will acknowledge that. I  do know I am annoying folk whole heartedly, But I do feel that this is an important issue, and one that folk should understand. Ignorance is no defence, but is more defence than blatant theft. Really it's the blatant thieves that get my goat, the rest just need informing!

You certainly have every right to launch a crusade on a subject that you feel strongly about!

I would rather indulge in some prog gossip to be honest, but when this subject comes up......... so do my hackles!

But thanks for your comment!