Ty1020 wrote: I figured this would be of interest to some people here, particularly those who are of the opinion that all punk bands are made up of talentless idiots... some friends of mine were at a hardcore show last night and the guitarist's warm-up consisted entirely of Liquid Tension Experiment songs. Maybe the genres aren't as far apart as you think .

Or perhaps not everything Liquid Tension Experiment has produced is prog, or even that complicated. All genres are capable of blending somehow anyways, but I'm still going to hate meaningless punk, death metal, pop, and modern black culture music (think MTV).

The Ryan wrote: All genres are capable of blending somehow anyways, but I'm still going to hate meaningless punk, death metal, pop, and modern black culture music (think MTV).

just think of musical notes in general. its how they're grouped together and then the groove is applied that makes the music. Prog just has the groove, not to mention the emotive content. It far outweighs all of the other genres no matter how much they share. Especially that MTV nonsense.

its always been the emotion that makes prog special.

Punk is just another form of Pop that is

Used by the “Musicians” to gain publicly

By showing the people how “cool” they

Are.

shanocles wrote: The Ryan wrote: All genres are capable of blending somehow anyways, but I'm still going to hate meaningless punk, death metal, pop, and modern black culture music (think MTV). just think of musical notes in general. its how they're grouped together and then the groove is applied that makes the music. Prog just has the groove, not to mention the emotive content. It far outweighs all of the other genres no matter how much they share. Especially that MTV nonsense. its always been the emotion that makes prog special.

Emotion is in the musician and in the listener. Between them are only disturbances of air.

It seems some people here keep living in the late 70s/early 80s. They keep re-living something that occurred almost 30 years ago and still bear a grudge for a reason that is long dead and gone. It would even seem that some teenage prog fans have picked this grudge up and are bent on nourishing it. I don't know, maybe this is a way of fitting into a more artsy crowd since they can't fit into a mainstream one at schools etc. Maybe this punk/prog conflict has been reborn in a new environment, with new punk and prog bands and their teenage fans. Whatever, I don't know. I only know this is one of the most ridiculous things ever, and it's hardly the only such conflict in music. Prog fans, punks, emos, classical fans, jazz fans etc. can all be equally immature. It seems their appreciation of music and their manner of justifying this appreciation can't exist without stiff, limiting boundaries and a good dose of derogation. "I'm so happy I'm not a Beta!", says an Alpha. "I'm so happy I'm not a Gamma", says a Beta, and so on. Aldous Huxley would be so 'proud' of some of the people here.    

ChadFromCanada wrote: Maybe older punk like Velvet Underground is good, I can't comment on the Ramones or the Clash because I haven't heard them. But the newer pop punk stuff isn't good at all.

Yeah modern punk is garbage its not even really punk.

punk died in my opnion around 84 or so anything that was good and punky after that was closer to alternative rock or post punk

Manunkind wrote: Emotion is in the musician and in the listener. Between them are only disturbances of air. It seems some people here keep living in the late 70s/early 80s. They keep re-living something that occurred almost 30 years ago and still bear a grudge for a reason that is long dead and gone. It would even seem that some teenage prog fans have picked this grudge up and are bent on nourishing it. I don't know, maybe this is a way of fitting into a more artsy crowd since they can't fit into a mainstream one at schools etc. Maybe this punk/prog conflict has been reborn in a new environment, with new punk and prog bands and their teenage fans. Whatever, I don't know. I only know this is one of the most ridiculous things ever, and it's hardly the only such conflict in music. Prog fans, punks, emos, classical fans, jazz fans etc. can all be equally immature. It seems their appreciation of music and their manner of justifying this appreciation can't exist without stiff, limiting boundaries and a good dose of derogation. "I'm so happy I'm not a Beta!", says an Alpha. "I'm so happy I'm not a Gamma", says a Beta, and so on. Aldous Huxley would be so 'proud' of some of the people here.

Brilliant! Best post i've ever seen on here

Modern punk sucks.  Plain and simple.  Old-school punk is mediocre.  And my school has (maybe) two prog fans who are not teachers.  Is modern punk even punk?  Like Hemispheres said, did it die in 84? I don't like punk, but that is my opinion only.  However, I shouldn't have to have punk almost force-fed to me by my peers.  I don't force prog upon other people, so they shouldn't do it to me!

P.S. Are there any female prog fans here not over 18? I'm so lonely

When in a local record store today, not a major chain or anything, they were playing "Welcome to Paradise" by Green Day, a song I'd heard before. I though it was ok, but wouldn't want to listen to it regularly.

meurglysIII wrote: Thufir Hawat wrote: Punk is just another form of Pop that is Used by the “Musicians” to gain publicly By showing the people how “cool” they Are. That's a very ignorant, close minded statement. It baffles me that people on this site acuse others of being close minded when they can go around and make statements like this. Punk, like many other musical genres (Prog included), has both good and bad sides to it (it's alll about differing taste when it comes down to it). Most modern punk isn't great, but old, real punk (e.g. the Damned) is really, really good, as is a lot of post-punk.

I agree with Thufir Hawat, this punk stuff nowadays is just a statement to show how "cool" the performer or listener is and just another way to "fit in" or prove who they think they are, or to get easy money.

This crap, which in my opinion it is, is being forced down my throat all day at school and at home so I hear a good bit of it and know what many of the new, only good for 2 weeks, singles are.  I know I'm not missing anything at all by not listening to them regularly and I think I have the right to say whether the genre is crap or not since I hear a good bit of it.

As of the old stuff, I have yet to listen to it. It seems to me the old punk, or real punk from what most say, is true to the genre of hate, rebellion, and tuff attitudes to prove that authorities are the true corrupt ones trying to limit fun and happiness. This attitude and way of living and thinking seems to be what punk runs on. I don't agree with any of these main themes that are included in most punk songs.
I have an optimistic outlook on life and for that reason the punk's music does not interest me or make me feel better about myself since to me what most punks, (the musicians and "rockers"), whether they be mainstream or "classic", are immature, selfish kids who only want to have fun and will do anything to get it, even ruin the music industry if they have to. As for the people that listen to the music, I will not stereotype them like I just did with the leaders of the movement. If the leaders and musicians are not immature and selfish then they do a great job presenting that "cool" image to the mainstream, I wouldn't be surprised if they only had that made up image to sell their records since the music sucks.

That's why I choose not to embrace or follow my life to the genre since I don't agree on what it naturally stands for, and since anything mainstream with the brand "punk" on it is all the same that is even more reason. I have nothing against exploring the mainstream genre every now and then for myself just for laughs and grins. Who knows, mabey I might come across something I like, it would be ignorant for me to completely shut off the genre just because of what I always hear from it.   I do plan on checking the classic stuff out, I hear better stuff about it, including what I have heared from this thread. But like I said, the mainstream stuff is crap and untill I hear something new other than short simple songs about immature topics like "teen-angst" written by immature kids then I don't plan on changing my opinion.

Too bad their own material is sh*te Original punk bands possibly have some good stuff, although it's absolutely not to my taste, but modern pop punk and emo is garbage that makes me vomit worse than rap 

I remember a long time ago I was given "the essential Clash" as a gift, I found it so primitive and stupid No solos, crappy vocals, simple compositions, I just don't see what's good about it. I remember I sold it and got Fragile 

The Miracle wrote: Too bad their own material is sh*te Original punk bands possibly have some good stuff, although it's absolutely not to my taste, but modern pop punk and emo is garbage that makes me vomit worse than rap  I remember a long time ago I was given "the essential Clash" as a gift, I found it so primitive and stupid No solos, crappy vocals, simple compositions, I just don't see what's good about it. I remember I sold it and got Fragile

, props to you for grabbing that Fragile instead of Clash. Wish all of us teenager's would make the same choice, about trading The Clash for Yes, as you and I would.

The Ryan wrote: Ty1020 wrote: I figured this would be of interest to some people here, particularly those who are of the opinion that all punk bands are made up of talentless idiots... some friends of mine were at a hardcore show last night and the guitarist's warm-up consisted entirely of Liquid Tension Experiment songs. Maybe the genres aren't as far apart as you think . Or perhaps not everything Liquid Tension Experiment has produced is prog, or even that complicated. All genres are capable of blending somehow anyways, but I'm still going to hate meaningless punk, death metal, pop, and modern black culture music (think MTV).

Liquid Tension Experiment has brilliant musicians making brilliant progressive music.  If the style of composing using different time and key signatures along with technical precision isn't prog, I don't know what progressive music is anymore.

I assure you that most Punks are not talentless.  I know a ton of local punk rock bands here in Denver, and I've played at the same shows they have.  These guys have skill, but it never comes out in their music.  Punks are talentless musicians, but they do make talentless music.

There are actually very good Death Metal bands out there.  Necrophagist and Origin make very technical music.  It's not the greatest composing or the most variant music, but these guys have great instrumental skill.

Rust wrote: The Miracle wrote: Too bad their own material is sh*te Original punk bands possibly have some good stuff, although it's absolutely not to my taste, but modern pop punk and emo is garbage that makes me vomit worse than rap  I remember a long time ago I was given "the essential Clash" as a gift, I found it so primitive and stupid No solos, crappy vocals, simple compositions, I just don't see what's good about it. I remember I sold it and got Fragile  , props to you for grabbing that Fragile instead of Clash. Wish all of us teenager's would make the same choice, about trading The Clash for Yes, as you and I would.

Teenagers listen to The Clash nowadays?

And Reverie, thank you.

The Miracle wrote: Too bad their own material is sh*te Original punk bands possibly have some good stuff, although it's absolutely not to my taste, but modern pop punk and emo is garbage that makes me vomit worse than rap  I remember a long time ago I was given "the essential Clash" as a gift, I found it so primitive and stupid No solos, crappy vocals, simple compositions, I just don't see what's good about it. I remember I sold it and got Fragile

Yea, I can't remember how I acquired it, but I got that too. I listened to it once, and was completely unimpressed (minus "Rock the Casbah"), and that was during a period where I actually liked a good deal of punk music, though most of it was more modern. Same deal with The Ramones. Actually, I guess I've never liked "real punk," but I have enjoyed NOFX and Rancid. Those two bands in particular always stood out to me the punk scene.

Joy Division

Joy Division

Joy Division

Joy Division

LISTEN TO THEM

Read this thread, especially Syzygy's posts:

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17947&PN=1 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17947& amp;PN=1

Rosescar wrote: Eh, punk. If "punk" is Simple Plan, Sum41, Greenday etc., then it sucks. If punk's the Strokes or Sex Pistols, then it's not bad, although simple.

Those modern bands do suck i wouldnt even consider them punk

I dont really like the sex pistols i think they had a few good catchy songs (Pretty Vacant,God Save The Queen) but overall not really great i would put them in the same category as ac/dc i guess.The Strokes arent Punk at all there mainstream Alternative but there probbably one of the best mainstream acts out today but thats not really saying much.

I avoided punk for years because of the mainstream garbage like good charlotte,Green Day,Simple Plan i dont think you can judge punk by listening to the few mainstream acts you have heard because in my opinion the best punk was underground and some bands had great musicianship but for me what comes first before musicianship is creativity and innovation and all these bands have them. 

The Damned,Minutemen,Dead Kennedys,Television,Pere Ubu,Subhumans,Crass,Cardiacs,Black Flag,The Fall,Gang Of Four,Joy Division,Killing Joke,Public Image Ltd,Bad Brains,The Stranglers,Nomeansno,Richard Hell And The Voidoids,The Ruts,Wire and more these are my favourite punk bands and they were all highly creative and innovative and some of them still are 

ive probably typed this rant out a million times on our site lol just listen to some of the good bands of punk and not judge the crappy mainstream ones 

This is kinda off topic...

but many say that prog is dead or so...bla bla bla, but for me if there is a genre that is really dead thats punk. it died around the ´80, after that you just get pop punk and alternative...not even thouse asses like Rancid are punk because the show an interest in hip hop and other music forms...for me the original punk band are or were the Sex Pistols, with there raw music and I really give a f**k what you say or think attitud...then others maybe also, but no band represents punk as good as they do...still they were horrible. But the point is that punk was an idea that latter transformed into music...but when you have this pop punk bands that play this kinda music because they really show no interest in learning or knowing how to play better...well, thats not punk...thats just being lazy and stupid which later the record companys publish as punk...please

But then there are bands like Green Day or Good Charlotte which are really killing (...killing? well lets say harming the dead ehehhe) the genre by making rock operas and semi conceptual albums...is there anything punk about a concept? No, because than means you must think and punk is not about thinking, its about taking the guitar and shouting out and loud what you think...anyway, all punk bands are pathetic...

el böthy wrote: This is kinda off topic... but many say that prog is dead or so...bla bla bla, but for me if there is a genre that is really dead thats punk. it died around the ´80, after that you just get pop punk and alternative...not even thouse asses like Rancid are punk because the show an interest in hip hop and other music forms...for me the original punk band are or were the Sex Pistols, with there raw music and I really give a f**k what you say or think attitud...then others maybe also, but no band represents punk as good as they do...still they were horrible. But the point is that punk was an idea that latter transformed into music...but when you have this pop punk bands that play this kinda music because they really show no interest in learning or knowing how to play better...well, thats not punk...thats just being lazy and stupid which later the record companys publish as punk...please But then there are bands like Green Day or Good Charlotte which are really killing (...killing? well lets say harming the dead ehehhe) the genre by making rock operas and semi conceptual albums...is there anything punk about a concept? No, because than means you must think and punk is not about thinking, its about taking the guitar and shouting out and loud what you think...anyway, all punk bands are pathetic...

Have you heard every punk band

Manunkind wrote: Rust wrote: The Miracle wrote: Too bad their own material is sh*te Original punk bands possibly have some good stuff, although it's absolutely not to my taste, but modern pop punk and emo is garbage that makes me vomit worse than rap  I remember a long time ago I was given "the essential Clash" as a gift, I found it so primitive and stupid No solos, crappy vocals, simple compositions, I just don't see what's good about it. I remember I sold it and got Fragile  , props to you for grabbing that Fragile instead of Clash. Wish all of us teenager's would make the same choice, about trading The Clash for Yes, as you and I would. Teenagers listen to The Clash nowadays? And Reverie, thank you.

The Clash is a whole lot better than the stuff that's popular today. If all teenagers traded sum 41 for The Clash, then there would still be improvement.

And remember, Robert Fripp, Peter Hammil, Nik Turner, and Steve Hillage all play on a Stranglers live album. The two genres certainly can too cross! Those are some of Progs greatest heros, playing on a punk Album.