Most complex band
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Topic: Most complex band
Posted By: Rorro
Subject: Most complex band
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 15:40
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Which is the most complex prog band in the world? How do you define wether a band is more or less complex than other |
Replies:
Posted By: BebieM
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 15:46
| I'd say Gentle Giant has pretty complex arrangements. Same goes for Henry Cow |
Posted By: Hierophant
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 15:50
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Then: Gentle Giant Now: Planet X check out planet x - ground zero virgil donati plays a layered 5 : 7 polyrhythm with the guitar in 7 and keyboard in 5  ------------- 
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Posted By: Gentle Tull
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 16:37
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I would say Gentle Giant as well, but the question is tough to answer, because there are so many complex bands, there can't really be one that is the most complex, it's just more of an opinion. I think complex is defined mostly by odd time signatures and different melodies and countermelodies used in a song. ------------- 
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Posted By: Mumakil
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 16:49
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Well, King Crimson is quite complex, when it comes to the point that you really can't tell what instrument/effect is being played, as well as the complex melodies, harmonies and time signatures.
------------- "Fly, you fools!" |
Posted By: Ben2112
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 17:01
Another vote for Gentle Giant, or at least their middle period stuff. Holy counterpoint, Batman!
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Posted By: Rising Force
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 17:03
I totally agree!!!!!!!! |
Hierophant wrote:Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 17:07
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I would say ELP for prog rock and Watchower for prog metal |
Posted By: Zenith
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 17:09
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I find their music quite complex too. And indeed very listenable and "interesting" ------------- We're only in it for the music!!! |
Posted By: walrus
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 17:18
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king crimson ------------- you and whose army? |
Posted By: Tholomyes
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 17:23
| King Crimson, The Mars Volta, Gentle Giant and ELP. |
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 17:32
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I add to the list Van Der Graaf Generator - but in fact we are talking about the most complexes among other very complexes too; that's part of prog-rock nature. ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: FragileDT
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 17:35
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I would say Gentle Giant as well but I would also add Dream Theater to the
list. Say what you will about their music (whether you like it or not) but it is extremely complex. ------------- One likes to believe In the freedom of music But glittering prizes And endless Compromises Shatter the illusion Of integrity |
Posted By: erlenst
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 17:46
| Island - Pictures is pretty DAMN complex. And anything by Yezda Urfa |
Posted By: Soul Dreamer
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 19:54
| I'd say Gentle Giant should win this prize. But then...I don't like them. To me GG often sound like being complex for the sake of being complex. That's not what I seek in music. |
Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 19:56
| happy the man |
Posted By: Gentle Tull
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 20:00
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^great band. Does anyone know where I can get their debut? -------------
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Posted By: The Ryan
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 20:02
| Why is everyone saying Gentle Giant? I don't get it. |
Posted By: Viajero Astral
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 20:03
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King Crimson is one of the most complex bands in the history, and ELP.
------------- 
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Posted By: Bern
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 20:32
Another vote for King Crimson 
-------------  
RIP in bossa nova heaven. |
Posted By: Mikerinos
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 20:37
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Album - Gryphon - Red Queen to Gryphon Three Band - Gentle Giant ------------- 
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Posted By: NotAProghead
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 20:40
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Complex band - is it good or bad? If I like ELP, I usually don't think whether they are complex (in fact I understand, they are), I simply listen end enjoy their music. If I can't understand many King Crimson albums, they are damn complex for me. ------------- Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour) |
Posted By: mrgd
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 20:59
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i think gg because of songs like 'boys in the band' ,'knots', 'so sincere','the runaway' just to mention a few. ------------- Looking still the same after all these years... mrgd |
Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 21:00
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Soft Machine (Just listen to "Third" Gentle Giant is a close 2nd! As for prog metal, I would say Meshuggah, but Watchtower is pretty close! ------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! |
) Frank Zappa, Henry Cow and Gryphon!Posted By: SirPsycho388
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 21:29
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Has anyone ever heard Spastic Ink... they're F#$%^& ridiculous! Almost too complex for me and I'm a huge Dream Theater & Symphony X fan! ------------- Strangers passing in the street by chance two separate glances meet and I am you and what I see is me. And do I take you by the hand and lead you through the land and help me understand the best I can |
Posted By: Legoman
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 21:37
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Yeah, Gentle Giant definately knows exactly how to lay on the
complexity. But lets not forget Magma here, guys. They have
a rythum sceme more complex than any band I have ever listened
to. Hell... the idea of Zeuhl in general is more complex than
most. |
Posted By: robertplantowns
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 21:55
| Gryphon-Midnight Mushrumps |
Posted By: Arioch
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 22:12
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Porcupine Tree ------------- Knight of the Swords Lord of Entropy Duke of Chaos |
Posted By: FragileDT
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 22:13
Is this a serious response? ------------- One likes to believe In the freedom of music But glittering prizes And endless Compromises Shatter the illusion Of integrity |
Posted By: Arioch
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 22:18
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Yeah, the drumming and guitar work is phenomonal. ------------- Knight of the Swords Lord of Entropy Duke of Chaos |
Posted By: SirPsycho388
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 22:24
No doubt they have a great rhythm section, and the band is amazing... but no way are they one of the most complex. ------------- Strangers passing in the street by chance two separate glances meet and I am you and what I see is me. And do I take you by the hand and lead you through the land and help me understand the best I can |
Posted By: Bern
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 22:25
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Is complex a good thing or a bad thing?
-------------
RIP in bossa nova heaven. |
Posted By: Tholomyes
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 22:26
well, but that doesn't mean they're complex. Porcupine Tree are very easy to get into, IMO. |
Posted By: Tholomyes
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 22:27
| and how could forget VAN DER GRAAF GENERATOR, for me is most complex than Gentle Giant. |
Posted By: Arioch
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 22:29
So complex means that it has to be a difficult listen. Crap is crap no matter how you serve it. King Crimson makes many unfriendly noises and such, but it still has to be music....not noise and mayhem. Same goes for Gentle Giant. ------------- Knight of the Swords Lord of Entropy Duke of Chaos |
Posted By: BePinkTheater
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 22:33
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If Elp had a guitar i think it would be them. But because there is only the one melodic intrumetn, there is a lot of room to be left unused(Not a bad thing at all) But if there was a guitar going just as crazy as Ol' Emerson, you'd have some crazy sh*t.
But deffintly KC or GG for old
and Planet X for new ------------- I can strangle a canary in a tin can and it would be really original, but that wouldn't save it from sounding like utter sh*t. -Stone Beard |
Posted By: ambriz
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 22:34
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Try "Rooms Of Anguish" by Power Of Omens, and more so, TRY to follow what the drummer is doing  ------------- Progressive music, a kind of life. |
Posted By: Arioch
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 22:34
I wouldn't rate ELP any more complex as Rush. ------------- Knight of the Swords Lord of Entropy Duke of Chaos |
Posted By: BePinkTheater
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 22:35
acessable and complex are not synonymous. But neither are Good and Complex. Porcupine is Great, unbelivable amazing, but not very complex.
ANd Complex is NOT opinion.( as someone earlier stated. This is a trait and characteristic, not a matter of opinion ------------- I can strangle a canary in a tin can and it would be really original, but that wouldn't save it from sounding like utter sh*t. -Stone Beard |
Posted By: FragileDT
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 22:36
Porcupine Tree is about as complex as <insert band that's not that complex here> It doesn't mean their music is bad it's just not that complex. Complex bands tend to be harder to get into (which might be why you think Crimson and Gentle Giant is just noise.) It's the same reason why most pop fans would think Porcupine Tree is just noise.  ------------- One likes to believe In the freedom of music But glittering prizes And endless Compromises Shatter the illusion Of integrity |
Posted By: AngleofRepose
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 22:36
| Gentle Giant certainly comes to mind. |
Posted By: FragileDT
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 22:37
There we go. BePinkTheater stated it probably better than I did. ------------- One likes to believe In the freedom of music But glittering prizes And endless Compromises Shatter the illusion Of integrity |
Posted By: Hendrix828
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 22:39
| Henry Cow |
Posted By: Rorro
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 23:21
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What abput Mahavishnu Orchestra?, in some passages i find it even more complex than Planet X, or at least as complex as planet X |
Posted By: Rorro
Date Posted: February 08 2006 at 23:22
| And also anglagard is a very very complex one |
Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 00:28
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Planet X ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 00:58
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When it comes to complex theres a few ways to interpretate it , well composed and complex would bring to mind bands like Jethro Tull, Yes or even Emerson, Lake and Palmer, In metal would bring to mind Dream Theater or even Fates Warning but when it comes to off the beam complex sure I`d give it to Gentle Giant or spiral architect , Andromeda or even planet x ... but as you guys keep telling me in your own ways ... what would I know
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Posted By: Thufir Hawat
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 01:21
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I honestly can’t say but I think GG would Be up there. ------------- "I can't see through my eye lids" |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 01:29
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The most complex album I know is Peter Hammill's solo album "The Fall of the House of Usher".
-------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Hierophant
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 01:36
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Just opened up GG's cogs in cogs in cakewalk and Christ! it is
seriously complex, there is at least 5 intertwining melodies going on
at once you can get all the midis off their site http://www.blazemonger.com/GG/MIDI/index.html - http://www.blazemonger.com/GG/MIDI/index.html -------------
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Posted By: dima_olkov
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 01:50
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For me it is Gentle Giant, especially In the Glass House and The Power and the glory Secondly it will be VdGG although now I find them a lot more accessible than before King Crimson maybe quite complex in some parts... ------------- PF, Genesis, KC, Yes, VdGG, GG, Camel, Jethro Tull |
Posted By: KoS
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 02:02
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Gentle Giant and VdGG |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 02:05
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 02:07
| Henry cow |
Posted By: video vertigo
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 03:05
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Gentle Giant, just listen to the song Free Hand. I read "the whole waltz section contains various themes from earlier in the song." Its freaking amazing. Another good example of a complex song of theirs is The Advent of Panurge: The lyrics seem simple but they tell a legend/story in about 20 lines, 4 minutes or so with instrumentals that are truly amazing. "The nonsense syllables in http://www.blazemonger.com/GG/albums/octopus.html#THE ADVENT OF PANURGE - The Advent Of Panurge describe what happens in the original story about the two giants. Pantagruel meets Panurge by a bridge, and Panurge answers his questions by speaking in every language under the sun... except French" check out all the other cool GG stuff:
Another band that I think is extraordinary in their complexity is a band I recently got into called Van der Graaf Generator. The best example of which is probably "A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers" brilliant ------------- "The rock and roll business is pretty absurd, but the world of serious music is much worse." - Zappa |
Posted By: video vertigo
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 03:10
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Also Rush is pretty complex, songs like Jacob's Ladder, Freewill, YYZ, Natural Science et cetera. And the GG influenced Spock's Bead, Thoughts part II and several of their songs show the complexities GG paved once before. ------------- "The rock and roll business is pretty absurd, but the world of serious music is much worse." - Zappa |
Posted By: zbida
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 03:24
| So King Crimson, ELP once again, and let it be The Flower Kings. |
Posted By: Man Erg
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 03:31
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In no order Gentle Giant Captain Beefheart (Especially Trout Mask & Decals) Brand X VdGG King Crimson Henry Cow ------------- 
Do 'The Stanley' otherwise I'll thrash you with some rhubarb. |
Posted By: Pylo
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 03:50
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Although I know they're great, it's very difficult for me to get into their music and listen to a whole album. ------------- Pylo |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 05:00
| GG, mahavishni, Niacin |
Posted By: Phil
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 05:43
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I'd talk about the structure of the music, the care and sophistication
with which it is arranged. So I'd certainly plump for Yes and Gentle
Giant. Henry Cow? Agreed. King Crimson? Maybe...but quite a lot of
their stuff was free-form improvisation. Mahavishnu Orchestra? Not so
sure... Porcupine Tree? Not from what I've heard (though I like em a
lot). Oh just to say "complex" doesn't necessarily mean "good" and "simple" doesn't necessarily mean "bad"!! |
Posted By: Manunkind
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 06:40
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Probably the band that can pull off this guy's compositions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Ferneyhough - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Ferneyhough The most complex I've ever heard was one of Anthony Braxton's bands. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Braxton - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Braxton EDIT: What has been going on with me lately ------------- "In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun |
... the topic starter did say PROG band... sorry about that. Hmm, I'd say Gentle Giant, Henry Cow and Frank Zappa are among the most complex prog ensembles. Posted By: ANDREW
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 08:25
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Posted By: Jeremy Bender
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 09:21
| King Crimson |
Posted By: gulliman
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 10:42
| It seems like no one of you ever listened to 5uu's and Thinking Plague. |
Posted By: Rorro
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 11:22
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Of course that a complex composition does't mean that it is good, but sometimes the complexity makes the composition more interesting, be cause it's more probable that it drives you to states and sensation that you would't live with simpler composition, and when you combine this with good criteria and beauty, is when the best compositions take places, IMHO. Also a complex composition can be trash, it can be horrible, or just don't make sense. But generally i can't find too much beauty in a very simple composition, mybe be cause i get bored.
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Posted By: ANDREW
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 12:08
| ARTHUR BROWN'S KINGDOME COME. |
Posted By: akin
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 12:33
| Gentle Giant |
Posted By: Lord Qwerty
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 12:37
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Lord Qwerty suggests Frank Zappa and co., knowing full well that that Zappa hated Progressive rock. ------------- Lord Qwerty is remarkably pretentious. |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 12:54
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Although Im the biggest KC fan...I dont totally agree with them being the most complex band out there...maybe some songs really are over the top complex...specially the ones from the ´90-´00...but I dont know if I would rate them as the most complex band...maybe some heavy metal band...I dont know if Dream Theater...but they definitly pull off some of the most complex stuff I have ever heard...anyone heard/saw the Instrumentally part form the Live at Budokan DVD...boy oh boy...what the heel is going on??? Is that humanly posible??? ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: korppikotka
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 12:56
| My vote goes to Spastic ink. It's impossible for me to listen to Ink complete straight through. Power of omens and Spiral architect are also very complex. |
Posted By: Dalezilla
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 13:35
Pain of Salvation? 
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Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 13:46
| you are all mistaken becuz i say happy the man |
Posted By: IL Geranio
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 13:49
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Gentle Giant
------------- "Confusion shall be my epitaph" |
Posted By: watch_maker
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 14:48
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kc ------------- lalala |
Posted By: oracus
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 14:57
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Area and Colosseum (Listen to the Valentyne suite).
------------- 
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Posted By: Jeremy Bender
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 15:01
| Another possible candidate: Meshuggah |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 15:50
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I was just hearing some Liquid tension...I guess they are the most complex thing ...well I dont know if complex, but definitly the most virtuoso thing I have ever heard! ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Posted By: Gentle Ronnie
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 15:53
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The question is how could someone mention ELP. D'uh! ------------- 
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Posted By: Jeremy Bender
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 16:15
Why not? I don't say they are the most complex band, but a lot of their material is extremely hard to play. Material such as: the Tarkus suite, Karn Evil 9 suite, The Three Fates, The Endless Enigma, Trilogy are not exactly child's play. |
Posted By: Zweck
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 16:16
| Meshuggah. |
Posted By: Rockin' Chair
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 16:57
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Maybe King Crimson. The most complex album IMO is Tales from Topographic Oceans by Yes. |
Posted By: soundspectrum
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 17:04
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Really this is a topic only musicians should bother with. Gentle Giant's complexity is no secret (they are one band you can tell just by listening that they write everything they do out) and ELP is not hard to hear either. Vdgg I think is more emotional than complex, but they have great musicians (jazz musicians really). A lot of KC stuff is improv in strange time signatures...and a lot of it (discipline era) is like a sequencer.... Dream theatre is difficult....Tull is definitly up there. Ian is a magnificent composer.But i think the complexity award (if there ever was such a ridiculous thing) goes to: FRANK ZAPPA. He had it all. Every musician he played with was trained and talented and if they slacked off they got thrown out. He just knew how to have fun as well makeing him not as likeable amongst this fanbase |
Posted By: Zarquino
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 20:40
Is like petrucci got sick and has LaBrie died :P But I like them. Have you seen the hand-guitar? Is great! ------------- There's nothing left to loose |
Posted By: Pseud0
Date Posted: February 09 2006 at 20:45
| meshuggah, GG, mahavishnu orchestra |
Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: February 11 2006 at 10:53
| Anglagard |
Posted By: proger
Date Posted: February 11 2006 at 11:33
yep. and thinking plague, GG, VDGG, Yes has a very hard songs and camel too. prog= hard to play and all that... ------------- ...live for tomorrow... |
Posted By: Badabec
Date Posted: February 11 2006 at 13:56
Same thing with me! I'd say most complex bands are: 1.) Gentle Giant 2.) King Crimson 3.) Emerson, Lake and Palmer 4.) Yes 5.) Lord Of Mushrooms |
Posted By: #1floydfan
Date Posted: February 11 2006 at 15:10
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i think dream theatre's guitar can be pretty complex ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/jimbobismykitty/?chartstyle=basicrt10 - [IMG - http://imagegen.last.fm/basicrt10/recenttracks/jimbobismykitty.gif - |
Posted By: Possessed
Date Posted: March 01 2006 at 20:25
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Zamla Mammaz Manna - Familjesprickor is the most complex album I've heard from beginning to end. For the better known bands, I would have to agree with the people who mentioned Gentle Giant, VDGG, and King Crimson. |
Posted By: Losendos
Date Posted: March 01 2006 at 20:46
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I haven't heard GG so my vote goes to VDGG ------------- How wonderful to be so profound |
Posted By: G_Bone
Date Posted: March 01 2006 at 20:54
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from what I listen to, probably ELP. But I haven't heard enough of Gentle Giant or King Crimson to say For progmetal, I'd say some of Symphony X sounds really complex due to a lot of the symphony elements (listen to the new mythology suite), although I'm not sure if they really are that complex, still sound really cool. |
Posted By: Toob-Wurm
Date Posted: March 01 2006 at 22:20
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Spiral Architect is the most complex band I've ever heard - certianly not the most musical, but definitely the most complex. They surpass even Meshuggah or Watchtower. ------------- 
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Posted By: greenback
Date Posted: March 01 2006 at 23:16
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gentle giant spaced out, very complex indeed happy the man frank zappa return to forever gryphon gong - the fusion era spastic ink and do not forget: ELECTROCUTION 250 : ------------- [HEADPINS - LINE OF FIRE: THE RECORD HAVING THE MOST POWERFUL GUITAR SOUND IN THE WHOLE HISTORY OF MUSIC!> |
Posted By: Nipsey88
Date Posted: March 02 2006 at 00:30
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I'm new to this thread so forgive me if my point has already been made: Complexity for its own sake is utterly masturbatory. If this is what you get out of prog, then so be it. But I see so much more involved in the genre, so I won't even answer the question. I don't see prog as a medium for playing [insert superlative here], I see it as an outlet for exploring new musical horizons. So bands that play complex for its own sake I think are kinda sad. That being said, Gentle Giant, Gordian Knot, Zappa, Happy The Man, Dixie Dregs, etc... I find to be musically rewarding in of themselves: their complexity is rooted in the music they choose to play, and all are awesome. If you judge music based on its complexity, then you are stupid. Music is the voice of the soul, not of your ridiculous need to be better than everyone else. Rant over. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Nipsey88/?chartstyle=myspace02" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: karakatoa
Date Posted: March 02 2006 at 01:44
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NOW:i think is spastic ink 70s:ELP |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: March 02 2006 at 02:05
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Gong during the Pierre Moerlen era were also very complex. just listen to a track like "Percolations" from "Gazeuse!". extremely complex tuned percussion parts
-------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: mattuati
Date Posted: March 02 2006 at 02:08
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Mr Bungle- Listen to the Bends on Disco Volante Frank Zappa Gentle Giant Sleepytime Gorilla Museum Cardiacs Fantomas Karmakanic-listen to One Whole Half Nuclear Rabbit RUINS-thats some damn complex bass and drums ------------- The enemy of my enemy is my friend |
Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: March 02 2006 at 09:44
Spiral Architect are obviously influenced by Watchtower... I don't know if they surpass them, but they are close in terms of complexity both great bands |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: March 02 2006 at 10:04
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Power of Omens! ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to: 
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