Iron Butterfly? This site is ridiculous
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
Forum Description: Discuss bands and albums classified as Proto-Prog and Prog-Related
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20284
Printed Date: July 25 2025 at 09:55
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Iron Butterfly? This site is ridiculous
Posted By: Ofur
Subject: Iron Butterfly? This site is ridiculous
Date Posted: March 14 2006 at 21:32
| Well this site has now officially become useless. This is no longer "the prog archives", it is now "the all music ever made archives". |
Replies:
Posted By: Hierophant
Date Posted: March 14 2006 at 21:34
Get used to it  ------------- 
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Posted By: Oxygen Waster
Date Posted: March 14 2006 at 21:37
This site is brimming with usefullness
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Posted By: Ofur
Date Posted: March 14 2006 at 21:38
| The owners of the site should at least stop pretending this site has anything to do with prog. |
Posted By: The Rock
Date Posted: March 14 2006 at 21:41
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I have no problem with Iron Butterfly in PA. Get over it. ------------- What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop" |
Posted By: Ofur
Date Posted: March 14 2006 at 21:43
| In a few months Elvis and the Sex Pistols will be on the archives. |
Posted By: Zac M
Date Posted: March 14 2006 at 21:44
riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight ------------- "Art is not imitation, nor is it something manufactured according to the wishes of instinct or good taste. It is a process of expression." -Merleau-Ponty |
Ofur wrote:Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: March 14 2006 at 21:50
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Yeah ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: Witchwoodhermit
Date Posted: March 14 2006 at 21:55
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Elvis---the godfather of prog
And what is wrong with Butterfly? ------------- Here I'm shadowed by a dragon fig tree's fan ringed by ants and musing over man. |
Posted By: robertplantowns
Date Posted: March 14 2006 at 21:59
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I bet none of you have listened to every Iron Butterfly album, so you really have no ability to judge their entrance based solely on In-a-Gadda-da-Vida. They're just as proto-prog as any other proto-prog group on this site, and even more prog than Deep Purple (which is one of my favorite groups) Iron Butterfly did more to develop a metal sound (dare I say it) before Led Zeppelin and they are completely overlooked for their achievement. I guarantee none of you have listened to all their albums from 1968-1970 so I don't think any of you are qualified to speak on this. Go listen to their discography from the first line up, then come back and tell me that you think they deserve to be on this site as much as any other proto-prog group, I dare you.
------------- 
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Posted By: The Ryan
Date Posted: March 14 2006 at 22:02
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Those who listen to the golden age of prog are just an example of one demographic that will be angry about all these Iron Butterflys and Deep Purples. These bands wern't prog in 1971, and they aren't prog now. I know this sites rediculous... I agree but where else can you go that has such a large member pool and artist-base? I hope someone duplicates this site but puts strict limits on bands that are posted. |
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: March 14 2006 at 22:05
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Today this site has 2.298 bands, of which 17 (including Iron Butterfly) are listed in the special subgenre of proto-prog (not really Prog), representing less than 1% of the total. First, if one judge the entire site taking these less than 1% as an example I believe no justice is being made. Imagine someone calling all French people as right-wings or fascists because LePen received 15% of the votes. Is it fair? Second, I still believe that the roots and the history of prog-rock shall be told and this site is probably the best place to do that. Can someone presently admit that the History of the Americas began the day they were 'discovered' by Columbus with the natives and other visitors being forgotten? I ask you to think about these issues. Thanks.
------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: Ofur
Date Posted: March 14 2006 at 22:16
| How convenient of you to ignore the other sub genre definitions that are not prog and all the bands listed in those sub genres and mention just "proto-prog" to arrive at your 1%. |
Posted By: DrGoon
Date Posted: March 14 2006 at 22:21
| Nobody is going to agree on what "prog" is, so if you're militant enough to care about it, go make your own site. All it takes is time, and a copy of "Solipsistic websites for dummies". |
Posted By: robertplantowns
Date Posted: March 14 2006 at 22:25
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"Ok that's it, now that Iron Butterfly is on here, the entire site is completely useless. Yes I can't take it anymore, this site is so watered down that the label of prog music fails to have a meaning anymore because this site now includes "every music ever made" even though the label that the band I'm complaining about isn't even labeled or purporting to be prog in the first place!! Yeah it's really SOO ridiculous to include a group that highlights the early stage and the development of progressive rock music, because that really has NOTHING to do with prog right?" Haha, seriously you guys need to get over this, take a chill pill, and go listen to Iron Butterfly and make up your mind rather than sitting here and venting having no knowledge of the material of the band you are so persuasively speaking about. Then maybe you should consider the entire meaning of PROTO-PROG and then reflect on that for a little while, and then crank some more Iron Butterfly tunes and realize that they did have a pretty big influence on the heavy sound that progressive rock groups would come to adopt. -------------
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Posted By: Ofur
Date Posted: March 14 2006 at 22:25
| Nobody agrees on what prog is? Well then I demand that Elvis and The Sex Pistols be put on the archives. |
Posted By: robertplantowns
Date Posted: March 14 2006 at 22:27
Nobody said that Iron Butterfly was prog. If you look very carefully at the label they are put under it is called Proto-Prog. I refer you to my previously mentioned comment. I think we can all agree that Elvis had no direct influence on progressive rock, and that the Sex Pistols and the punk movement regressed rock. I think many of us could make an argument for the direct impact that Iron Butterfly had on rock and if you took the time to listen to their catalog you would probably agree, but of course it's much easier for you to bash them without any knowledge at all.  -------------
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Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: March 14 2006 at 22:38
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Well I thought we were talking about Iron Butterfly (hence the sub genre they are included) not about "other sub genre definitions". ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: March 14 2006 at 22:44
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Honestly I feel less uncomfortable with Iron Butterfly and Proto Prog (A sub genre acceopted by most sites and Prog' literature) than with bands as ELO and Prog Related. Iron Butterfly was not 100% Prog', but I'm sure it was Proto Prog. Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: Ofur
Date Posted: March 14 2006 at 22:48
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Why do you assume I've never heard anything with Iron Butterfly? Why are you acting like they aren't here solely because of In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida? Are you pretending to own all Iron Butterfly albums? |
Posted By: goose
Date Posted: March 14 2006 at 22:51
I'm completely in agreement with that. |
Posted By: surfdaddy
Date Posted: March 14 2006 at 22:53
| I come here because, I am interested in the Progressive, Neo Progressive, and Progressive Metal genres reviewed on this site, and discussed in this forum. I dont like all of the music listed, maybe not even most of it, but enough of it to appreciate the hard work someone puts in to running a site like this. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: March 14 2006 at 22:55
I own all Iron Butterfly albums, my uncle was a hippie and still lives in a farm eating everything he plants plus tofu and feeding animals (Of course he doesn't eat animals). He gave me the full IB collection on LP for one birthday. Ahhhhhh....I bought the DVD also. Iván BTW: Yes they are Proto Prog. -------------
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Posted By: Ofur
Date Posted: March 14 2006 at 22:57
This is what you said: "First, if one judge the entire site taking these less than 1% as an example I believe no justice is being made. Imagine someone calling all French people as right-wings or fascists because LePen received 15% of the votes. Is it fair?" You ignore the other non prog genres and assume I'm bashing this site on just the proto-prog sub genre which I'm not. I'm saying this site is becoming more and more ridiculous with the inclusion of endless bands that have nothing to do with prog. |
Posted By: avestin
Date Posted: March 14 2006 at 23:00
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If it's useless, what are you still doing here? I think we'll manage without you. ------------- http://hangingsounds.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - Hanging Sounds http://www.progarchives.com/ProgRockShopping.asp" rel="nofollow - PA Index of prog music vendors |
Posted By: robertplantowns
Date Posted: March 14 2006 at 23:01
I didn't say that you've heard nothing of them I just said that you or all the people here haven't listened to them extensively enough to form a worthwhile opinion. 2. I highly doubt that they were put onto the archives because of that one song, knowing the extensive knowledge of prog music of those who added Iron Butterfly. 3. No I'm not pretending to own all the Iron Butterfly albums, I do own all the albums including the ones from the 75 reformation up until their last studio album. If you are interested in any of them you should "buy" them because they're great albums. -------------
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Posted By: robertplantowns
Date Posted: March 14 2006 at 23:04
So i guess 15 has instantly transformed into "endless." That's funny. I also suppose that you are such an expert on Iron Butterfly that you are credible enough to make that opinion. -------------
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Posted By: Ofur
Date Posted: March 14 2006 at 23:08
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Who said 15? I never did. Yes I am an expert on Iron Butterfly, I used to be married to Doug Ingle. What do you call being an expert on the band? Is listening to their albums not enough for you? |
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: March 14 2006 at 23:16
OK, what are exactly the "other non prog genres"? Prog-related? Well, you have there 50-60 bands. Excluding the proto-prog and prog-related bands you have more than 2.200 names. You may say that for your specific taste some other genres do not comply with your definition of prog and then, all this stuff is simply a matter of personal taste. A Rick Martin fan or a Britney Spears fan will find this site useless because their personal tastes aren't satisfied here, but if you like Symphonic or Folk or Italian you'll find this site useful and able to satisfy your taste. Better than complaining for the inclusion of A or B maybe ideas about how to deal with prog-related and proto-prog bands should be more relevant for the site. ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: DrGoon
Date Posted: March 14 2006 at 23:26
Behind on his alimony, is he? |
Posted By: Empathy
Date Posted: March 14 2006 at 23:39
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"Proto-Prog definition
Rock Bands in existence prior to 1969 that influenced the development of progressive rock. The late 60's was a predominately experimental period for music. These bands were moving in a stream that eventually led to prog. The influence could have come from new sophisticated forms of writing and playing music, recording techniques, new instruments and vocal harmonies to name a few. Some of these bands became progressive rock bands themselves others did not." Iron Butterfly absolutely fits this definition, based on my (admittedly limited) exposure to them. Seriously though... if it bugs you that much, you should be able to dazzle the Submissions team with your depth of knowledge about Prog enough to be tapped as a member of the Submissions team. If that doesn't work out, you can nail your Proverbial "95 Theses" to the Virtual PA Door, and start your own Prog website in defiance. Such drama! |
Posted By: herbie53
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 00:06
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Posted By: kane83
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 00:11
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I wouldn't of guessed iron butterfly prog but I'm not crying about it this site is all I have to learn about prog having no friends or familly who like it and never heard it on some 70's fm station because I was born in the 80's and discovered it in my 20's I find this site very useful and buy a lot of music I would otherwise never heard of and if you find this site useless maybe you don't need it. nobody is making you logon to PA and forcing you to look at anything here but if I'm wrong and you are being forced then their is some kind of a sick person out there using prog to torture people EVERYBODY LOOK OUT!!!!!!!!!!
------------- with all your giving, all your giving is the answer - Tull |
Posted By: kane83
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 00:13
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and for nothing but the love of prog. ------------- with all your giving, all your giving is the answer - Tull |
Posted By: Witchwoodhermit
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 00:19
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Don't worry, you're all young. None of this will matter in a few more years. ------------- Here I'm shadowed by a dragon fig tree's fan ringed by ants and musing over man. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 00:33
Maybe the kids got a point , this site is going to the dogs 
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Posted By: avestin
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 00:34
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You don't have to stay here if you don't want to, you know. ------------- http://hangingsounds.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - Hanging Sounds http://www.progarchives.com/ProgRockShopping.asp" rel="nofollow - PA Index of prog music vendors |
Posted By: Progidal
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 00:53
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Prog Snobs...sheesh... Are the labels "Proto Prog" and "Prog Related" not good enough to inform you that they aren't "100% prog" ????????? "This site is going to helll!!" I don't understand.------------- here i go 
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Posted By: avestin
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 00:56
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Then let us dogs have it, and go to other more human-like sites with mcuh more class and dignity. ------------- http://hangingsounds.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - Hanging Sounds http://www.progarchives.com/ProgRockShopping.asp" rel="nofollow - PA Index of prog music vendors |
Posted By: kane83
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 01:08
like some rap archives ------------- with all your giving, all your giving is the answer - Tull |
Posted By: boo boo
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 01:31
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Now you are just being dillusional. Whats progressive is a subjective matter of opinion, all the bands on the archives could be progressive rock in someones own eyes. Most of these bands you people make a big deal about being on the archives are still much more progressive than Dream Theater in a way, since they are making music thats actualy what could described as progressive. Also i really hate it when people put such a strict label on different genres, its beginning to piss me off. |
Posted By: avestin
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 01:44
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In light of all the PA dissapointed members I want to help them overcome their grief by showing them something. This is a very good prog rock website. Let me give some examples. You can discover here all kinds of bands from different genres and countries. Take for example these threads: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19836&FID=42 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19836& amp; amp; amp; amp; amp;FID=42 - French http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17840&PN=1 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17840& amp; amp; amp; amp; amp;PN=1 - Spanish http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7256&PN=3 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7256&a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;PN=3 - Belgium (RIO/Avantgarde) http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19821&PN=1 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19821& amp; amp; amp; amp; amp;PN=1 - Scandinavia http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18860&PN=2 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18860& amp; amp; amp; amp; amp;PN=2 - Prog Videos on the net http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19749&FID=3 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19749& amp; amp; amp; amp;FID=3 - German Folk Prog http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20015&PN=1 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20015& amp; amp; amp;PN=1 - Russian prog http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20019&PN=2 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20019& amp; amp; amp;PN=2 - Hungarian prog http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19927&PN=1 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19927& amp; amp; amp;PN=1 - Japanese prog http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19985&KW=US - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19985& amp; amp; amp;KW=US + US prog http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20104&KW=italian - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20104& amp; amp; amp;KW=italian http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18490&KW=italian - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18490& amp; amp; amp;KW=italian http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17371&KW=italian - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17371& amp; amp; amp;KW=italian http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17066&KW=italian - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17066& amp; amp; amp;KW=italian A very good article on Belgian Chamber Prog scene By: Sean Trane What more can you ask for? You have wonderful collaborators and forum members that are willing to share their knowledge and experience with the rest, and some even send others song samples for others to listen to. And you make a whole thread about Iron Butterfly being added, because you think they are not worthy? Relax, enjoy what this site has to offer you, take advantage of it. If you really wnat to change things and complain, write to the band admission team and explain to them you reasons for not including them, and don't make threads which I can assure you will arouse controversy, insults, bad feelings and eventually will be closed by Jody or Easy Livin'. Have a good day!
------------- http://hangingsounds.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - Hanging Sounds http://www.progarchives.com/ProgRockShopping.asp" rel="nofollow - PA Index of prog music vendors |
Posted By: boo boo
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 01:47
| Yeah, its pointless to prevent this site from growing because some purists and elitist snobs refuse to have it any other way. |
Posted By: surfdaddy
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 01:54
| Because of this site Im getting to listen to stuff I missed listening to in my life, and new stuff that I haven't heard of before, but I find pleasing. Call it what you want, I like it. |
Posted By: mrgd
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 01:55
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"THE EXAMINING BODY EXAMINED HER BODY" and she was found to be prog-related and thats good enough for me.Viva Progarchives! ------------- Looking still the same after all these years... mrgd |
Posted By: Chipiron
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 02:30
Very well said... I have discovered a lot of great bands thanks to PA and I don't care about the label. If one day many ( Take it easy and listen to the music. ------------- [IMG]http://www.belderrain.es/GIFs/tora.gif"> |
Posted By: Chipiron
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 02:31
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Besides, Elvis' Las Vegas haircut and costumes are "Proto-Prog" IMO ... ------------- [IMG]http://www.belderrain.es/GIFs/tora.gif"> |
Posted By: Lindsay Lohan
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 03:04
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In a sense almost 70% of all bands from the 70's could some way or another fit into proto prog and the prog related classificationing. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Fjuffe/?chartstyle=sideRed - [IMG - http://imagegen.last.fm/sideRed/recenttracks/Fjuffe.gif - |
Posted By: Trotsky
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 03:34
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This thread has now been moved into the Proto-Prog and Prog-Related
Lounge ... where it can take its rightful place alongside threads
complaining about Deep Purple, Triumph, The Beatles, etc
------------- "Death to Utopia! Death to faith! Death to love! Death to hope?" thunders the 20th century. "Surrender, you pathetic dreamer.” "No" replies the unhumbled optimist "You are only the present." |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 04:00
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This was taken from another thread on this very forum Ofur, you might want to read this three times, twist your tongue in your mouth seven times, think for a couple of minutes, before opening your trap anymore!!!!
And if you still don't like, though luck!!!!!!!!! Proto-prog and prog related categories are here to stay and are bound to grow and even live their own lives Some of the groups or albums included in those two genres are probably more progressive than your run-of-the-mill Porcupine Tree or Arena albums. ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: RoyalJelly
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 04:06
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The Beatles had a profound influence on all the young musicians who
went on to create prog, and probably continue to. I can think of no progressive musician, nor musician of any other kind, who ever cited the Iron Butterfly as an inspiration. |
Posted By: video vertigo
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 04:38
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First off, the only Iron Butterfly I own is In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida
------------- "The rock and roll business is pretty absurd, but the world of serious music is much worse." - Zappa |
Posted By: avestin
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 05:20
Great post, Sean! After my previous incident with Sl1p3rry (or whatever is name is) I was reluctunt to get into anymore arguments and get threads closed, so I shut MY trap. ------------- http://hangingsounds.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - Hanging Sounds http://www.progarchives.com/ProgRockShopping.asp" rel="nofollow - PA Index of prog music vendors |
Posted By: Ofur
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 08:02
| Let's face it, this site is engaged in massive revisionism of what constitutes prog. |
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 08:09
I am pleased with the Iron Butterfly addition because this band has more to do with the development of progressvie rock than the overrated The Beatles, this band was a media hype from the Sixties. Now let's wait for more justice like Jefferson Airplane, The Doors and Jeff Beck  !
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Posted By: Alucard
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 08:14
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Good, this is an open discussion forum, feel free to express your opinion whenever you like.
------------- Tadpoles keep screaming in my ear "Hey there! Rotter's Club! Explain the meaning of this song and share it" |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 08:21
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Let's face it, this guy is engaged in massive cretinism of what constitutes prog Just kidding But what is your problem, are you more catholic than the pope ? or can you not understand that prog-related is related to prog , but not prog (actually i'd like to have ELO moved to art rock) Is is so hard to understand that proto-prog are the roots of prog Those are fairly simple and straightforward concepts and if you are anything of prog fans, this should've sunk in by now !!!!!!! I will actually relisten to IB albums except In A Gadda Da Vida (just to make a point) and I will maybe review them, read up on my reviews to see if they are proto. ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: lordoflight
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 08:43
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People should complain when their favourite bands are not included on this site, not when a band whcih they do not consider prog is added. So what if a non-prog band is added ? Are you so narrow minded and limited by genres and titles ? Just dont click on the link to the bands you dont consider prog and that's it. This site provides useful information about bands - discography, line ups, reviews, etc and the more bands it has and the more the people it helps, the better. So from now on, when a band which is not prog is added, just remember that other people may find it useful and stop being a narrow minded arse hole genre fanatic. |
Posted By: PROGMAN
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 08:43
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IRON BUTTERFLy are an important role as a developer of Progressive Rock in the 1960s. I am happy with their inclusion, Proto-Prog is the parent of Prog Rock IMO. ------------- CYMRU AM BYTH 
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Posted By: moonlapse
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 08:58
Not again. Speaking of narrow-minded, you are telling people when they should complain and when they shouldn't. Did someone die and leave you boss? If somebody doesn't agree with Iron Butterfly being added, or any other band for that matter, seems there's always someone who'll come on and label them narrow-minded. Or, someone else comes on and says it must be hard to run a site like this, so you shouldn't disagree with anything. If people want to disagree and state their opinion why is that such a big issue? Makes for interesting discussion as far as I'm concerned. Just for the record, I'm not arguing one way or the other for IB's inclusion as I'm not familiar enough with their music. |
Posted By: lordoflight
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 09:27
i meant narrow minded in the sense that since they do not consider prog or even prog-related, they want to leave them out just for the sake of not including them as they may be not prog. Isn't that narrow minded? The inclusions of bands they have no interest in should not annoy them. There are many bands which i do not like on this site - some prog and some which i do not consider as prog - yet i dont want them to be removed just because i dont like them or because they should not be here, because anybody who is interested in them is able to look them up here. |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 09:38
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As the owners and the majority of the mods have decided we must have "prog related" and "proto prog" categories here because of the site's "evangelical" mission to spread prog to all and sundry classic rock fans, and "lure" the youngsters into trying classic prog (thus ensuring the music's "survival into the next millennium" -- wonder how they'll know), I have no problem with the inclusion of Iron Butterfly, or others. The music and artists that I consider "prog" (a subjective concept) are still here in their place of prominence, and this site remains a valuable and thorough progressive music resource.
I am, however, shocked and confused to discover the the Beatles -- arguably the most important & influential band in the history of rock/pop -- were "overrated" and a product of "media hype." There was I (in company with many other folks whom I consider intelligent and independent-minded), for the last 38 years or so, thoroughly enjoying their well-crafted and very catchy songs, wholly unaware that I (and, it seems, the numerous fine, respected musicians like Jeff Beck -- to name but one; there have been hundreds -- who've seen fit to cover the Beatles' music over the years) have been a sheep-like victim of "media hype," "overrating" and brainwashing all along! Thank you, Erik, oh infallible arbiter of taste, for finally setting me (and everyone else) straight on this clearly sub-par band. Shall I ditch the Stones, CCR, or the Doors -- no wait, they're still good, right? -- next? Seriously, why attack one beloved band to praise another?
The words "snobbish arrogance" come to mind....
BTW, I don't really give a damn about the Fab Four's supposed influence on prog. I just enjoy their songs -- which will doubtlessly continue to be loved, covered and played long after you, I -- and yes, even Jefferson Airplane -- are long gone and forgotten..... ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
How could I, and half of the world, have been so blind, deceived and naive?
I'll stop liking them forthwith! (Too bad you couldn't have revealed THE TRUTH before we bought so many of their albums and made them the most successful band of the 20th Century, though!
Posted By: Chicapah
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 09:39
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From one who was there when Iron Butterfly came onto the music scene, they belong on this site. Allow me to say this. There was no progressive rock scene going on at that time! Psychedelic music was the closest we got. Listen to "Piper at the Gates of Dawn" and tell me that it is more progressive than Inagaddadavida. NOT! It is pure psychedelia! If you have a site that features nothing but symphonic prog I'll show you a very narrow and limited target audience that would want to participate. ------------- "Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain |
Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 09:45
Just to pick you up on one thing Peter, the decision was that of the owners, the "mods" simply communicated it and facilitated its implementation. We do of course each have our own opinions on such matters. (is that how you spell milenium by the way? |
)Posted By: moonlapse
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 09:46
It's not narrow-minded. Those proto-prog bands also had influences - could you say it's narrow-minded to exclude those also? A line must be drawn somewhere. Your line might be at proto-prog, while others prefer to draw the line at prog. Their opinion vs. yours on what the site should be. The site gets diluted with what a lot of us agree are some questionable additions, so it's natural for people to express concern about the overall direction of the site. Also, Atkingani's stats about it being only 1% of bands on the site are meaningless, because proto-prog is a relatively new category. So of course this number will be low at this point. |
Posted By: lordoflight
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 09:52
That's exactly my point. Why should there be a limit? |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 09:57
 to OFUR:: YOU CAN ALWAY LEAVE THIS SITE, THIS IS ONE OF THE BEST PROGG/ROCK SITES OUT THERE. IRON BUTTERFLY WAS A GREART BAND WHICH NEVER REALLY GOT THE CREDIT THEY DESERVED..CHECK THEM OUT DONT BE SO QUICK TO JUDGE,IM SURE THERE ARE PEOPLE ON THIS SITE THAT DONT CARE FOR SOME OF YOUR TASTE....
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Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 09:57
Jeez -- I meant to look it up! Thus: M-I-L-L-E-N-N-I-U-M
(Thanks, Webster's....) ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
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Posted By: A'swepe
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 10:02
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Pretty steep guarantee there Rob. At a 52 year old Prog fan, I was in high school in 1968 when In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida came out. It got a lot of airplay & turned me on to a fresh style previously unexperienced. I went out & bought Ball & then Heavy. I have Iron Butterfly Live & Metamorphosis (a wonderful transition album IMO). I even have copies of the terrible (compared to their late 60's output) Sun and Steel & Scorching Beauty. IMO the only band that sounded remotely like IB was The Doors, mainly due to their keyboard-oriented sound - I don't think the two bands styles are the same - they were both Progressive at the time, doing stuff few others were doing. I think I am "qualified to speak on this". I'm not disagreeing with you at all, I simply object to you assumption that noone here has heard the majority of their output. BTW, Deep Purple is one of my favorites as well, & no, they aren't prog. No, Iron Butterfly is NOT Prog - but I don't have a problem with them being here as Proto-Prog. They were progressive & groundbreaking in 1968. They deserve to be here.
------------- David - Never doubt in the dark that which you believe to be true in the light. http://www.myspace.com/aardvarktxusa - Instrumental rock http://www.soundclick.com/aardvarktxusa |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 10:14
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 10:21
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Hello Peter. If many reviewers take the possibility to hail all the music made by The Beatles, I take the right to nail The Beatles, just as I see them. The fact that The Doors, Santana and Jefferson Airplane are still not included while The Beatles flood this site, for me it is clear that music has become too subjective on this site. Let you venom and sarcasm flow, Peter, allow yourself to call me snobish or arrogant, I don't mind at all! For me the most important thing is that I feel supported on this site by many progheads who love my reviews about symphonic rock/progressive rock, that's where this site is about, informing progheads about the wonderful world of progrock/symphonic rock. And at some moments I am a bit unpleasant towards The Beatles or Eighties Yes and Genesis, then it's me who needs to let flow some venom ... oh, no, not again that arrogant snob Erik ... |
Posted By: erlenst
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 10:33
Are you pretending to be stupid or are you just an ass ? |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 10:34
And I really don't like that ubiquitous "overrated' word that so many toss around so casually here. Taste in music is individual -- just because I (and Jeff Beck -- ever hear his great instrumental cover of "A day in the Life?") like the Beatles, doesn't mean I'm a victim of "media hype." I made my point, so I'm done. Peace, bud! ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: rockandrail
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 10:39
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I had the chance to see Iron Butterfly in concert in Brussels in 1970. Guess who was the supporting act? a young band called "Yes" who had just released "Time and a Word" What does it means? It means that back in 1970, for the concert organizers, Iron Butterfly and Yes were playing in the same vein and deserved to be associated. Why should Iron Butterfly be banned from the site today just because they did not developped more into "pure" prog. Would prog be an eugenic genre? Should I add that, IMHO (very humble), I feel a much more progressive attitude in bands like Iron Butterfly or in the early Deep Purple albums than in some Metal records that find themselves qualified as "Prog" just because there is a 10 seconds organ break in the middle of 60 minutes of noise. ------------- Pierre R, the man who lost his signature |
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 10:43
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OK, Peter, it is not my intention to hurt people by using words like 'overrated' and 'media-hype' but I am deadly serious about my point of view about The Beatles: I really don't understand why this music is so hailed? Recently I have borrowed Revolver and Sgt Pepper (see my reviews from last week) and I can heardly trace any interesting song, for it's a bunch of entertaining poprock, nothing less or more. I felt disappointed when so many collaborators decided to reject The Doors, I can't understand this because their blend of jazz, rock, blues an dsome flamenco is so progressive. You feel not pleasant by the words I used about The Beatles but I feel unpleasant by all the attention for The Beatles while there is so much more interesting to explore than the Fab Four .. So I am glad with Iron Butterfly, these bands belong to the history of the development of the progressive rock movement, like Vanilla Fudge, this band is underrated! |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 10:49
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I think the man is well past pretending so he is 100% pure juice (made from concentrated but with added pulp) ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 11:15
I've largely given up fretting about which bands are added here, Erik -- most of the artists I lobbied against (Fairport Convention, Queen, etc) were included anyway. For the record, I don't plan to review any Beatles (or Purple, etc.) albums. I have a long list of (almost certainly) "real" prog albums here that I've yet to review, and I continue to discover fine new prog acts via my friends and associates here (Umphrey's McGee, Mind Sky, Steve Unruh, etc.). So many prog albums, so little time -- and, it seems, motivation!
PS: I advise you not to be too "deadly serious" about this stuff -- it's just music we're discussing, after all, and music should be a source of unity, entertainment and pleasure -- not discord, peevishness or pain! Cheers! P. PPS: How 'bout them mellotrons, eh? ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Ofur
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 11:15
Iron Butterfly supported Yes? That is totally meaningless. Hendrix supported The Monkees on a tour. |
Posted By: Ofur
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 11:18
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Don't make the assumption that I don't like Iron Butterfly. I like them fine. They don't belong here that's all. |
Posted By: Ofur
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 11:22
Stop pretending to be stupid yourself, you know very well what I mean when I say that Elvis and The Sex Pistols should be on this site. |
Posted By: moonlapse
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 11:24
Taste or lack of recognition isn't the issue. |
Posted By: moonlapse
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 11:46
You're going to lure youngsters to prog, by including proto-prog
bands like the Beatles and Iron Butterfly??? I fail to understand
that logic. Most teens would have no clue who Iron Butterfly is. And probably can't stand the Beatles. Maybe we can include post-prog bands too - "Bands who were influenced by prog, but not prog themselves". How about including that rapper who included the Gentle Giant riff in one of his songs? Absurd? Maybe. But I bet it would get more youngsters here than Iron Butterfly. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 11:53
^^^^^^^^^^^ you'd be amazed by the tons of teens who listento their parent's vinyls and suddendly fall onto this weird IB with huge light effect on the background of the stage the groups play on, and that weird thing In-A-gadda-da-Vida, then look up on the net for this group and falling on the PA in second of third place............. A likely bet, would you not say? ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Ofur
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 12:04
| Ahh yes now we've established the real goal of this site and the reason for inclusion of bands that have nothing to do with prog. The prog archives is nothing more than a sad attempt to sucker innocent people into liking prog. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 12:14
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Well we suckered you, right? Jesss kiddin!!!!!!!!!! Cm'on man, drop the subject and enjoy the Archives! I plan to include Jefferson Airplane and maybe Spirit and certainly Santana, so if you are not thick skinned , you will get many more ulcers Shame to get one of those if you are not alcoholic ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 12:55
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if you arent happy with this additions, then talk with the collaborators and all those people who decide which band is or isnt here... i have nothing to say, i love progarchives... and yes, sometimes a dont feel very well with new additions, but i think collaborators team know their job and know what are they doing... ------------- Follow me on twitter @memowakeman |
Posted By: Passionist
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 13:02
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Just to add a hasty response to the topic, leave it be foo!s, so what if there's one not as 100% prog band when the rest are? you don't have to go visit the Iron Butterfly page here now do you?
Anyway, now that I'm onto this I was wondering, how about adding Björk here too? She surely is something, and rather close to even Peter Gavriels style I might say. |
Posted By: Ofur
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 13:18
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Björk? How about Elvis and Sex Pistols? |
Posted By: lunaticviolist
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 13:33
Just because this site has a few bands that you think should not be here doesn't mean this site is no longer useful! ------------- My recent purchases: 
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Posted By: Ofur
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 13:43
It will become more and more useless with time as more and more non prog bands are admitted. The people responsible for this site seem to think that they must continually add new bands (God knows why) and since prog bands are now in short supply they have to add bands that have nothing to do with prog and this will only get worse and worse since they will eventually run out of bands that could possibly have had a miniscule connection to prog and so Elvis and The Sex Pistols will eventually be on the archives. |
Posted By: Ofur
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 13:48
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I propose these new faux categories in the spirit of other newly invented categories:
Elvis= caveman prog The Sex Pistols= post prog
There you go, they clearly belong on this site now. |
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 13:56
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Jefferson Airplane and Santana, Sean? Go on !
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Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 13:59
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Yes, and i want Santana & Mclaughlin album here!! seriously ------------- Follow me on twitter @memowakeman |
Posted By: Ofur
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 14:04
Oh no Jefferson Airplane are a purely psychedelic band, please don't put them on the archives.
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Posted By: erlenst
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 14:04
You know what ?  You are acting like a pathetic little kid. SHUT YOUR MOUTH ALREADY !!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 14:13
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Jefferson Airplane made a captivating blend of blues, rock and psychedelia, they are not a purely psychedelic band in my opinion and very progressive in those late Sixties, watch their excellent DVD Fly Jefferson Airplane (two seconds of Grace Slick looks more sexy than entire hot videoclips by Madonna or Britney Spears!). |
Posted By: moonlapse
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 14:30
Point taken. |
Posted By: GnarlesGharl
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 15:06
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I come to this website to find music that i wouldn't normally hear of from MTV or other popular music sources. Personally, its all just the music business that floods your senses with their newest flavor of the month and you don't hear of the some of the stuff that is overlooked because it isnt "in style." This website helps me kind of sort through some of the nonsense that I am always bombarded with like Britney Spear's or other popular rap (not to say rap or anything is bad as some can be good). I just use this site to find more of the underground stuff..its absolutely great! Iron Butterfly isn't normally talked about on MTV (ithink, i dont watch it )..The Beqtles are some times but they are good anyways and are an exception. I dont mind if they add some of this stuff like the beatles. I try not to think of thiws site as being something snobbish or rebellious but more of a place where you would find music that is overlooked cuz it's not the newest fad. I mean the beatles adn the doors and supertramp are what got me into "prog". P.S. They have a cowbell...now that is breaking some boundaries man! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/gnarlesgharl/?chartstyle=tracksAuto"> 
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Posted By: MorgothSunshine
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 15:23
The worst addicyion here is Tad Morose!!!  ------------- For every truth even the contrary is true... 
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Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: March 15 2006 at 15:26
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This thread has run its course.
If anyone wishes to discuss the music of Iron Butterfly, please start a new thread in this section. |