I think there may be an element of provocation in those 1-star reviews. Just imagine someone visiting the PA site and seeing all the rave reviews of albums like CTTE, DSOTM, SEBTP and so on - then thinking "Now I'll show them!". I'm quite sure there are people who have never listened to those albums (unfortunately, my opinion seems to be supported by some of the reviews I've seen around), nevertheless may get a kick out of bashing them just to annoy others. 

Then, again, we have to account for personal taste. I have a very good friend who's very much into prog, and some time ago he told me he couldn't get into CTTE. Jokingly I told him "you don't know a thing about good music!", but I know everyone is entitled to their own opinions, even if they clash with mine. This friend of mine loves Renaissance and Camel, and finds Yes far too intellectual and complicated.

I am myself guilty of giving a poor rating (2 stars though, not 1) to at least one of the PA Top 100 albums: Marillion's "Misplaced Childhood". I would never say it's badly sung or played, but it just bores me to tears....

Trotsky wrote: Hello Sharier, This kind of thing crops up all the time ... complaints about ratings ... Personally of the 230 plus albums I've reviewed, only a handful have qualified for the 1 star rating, IMO (of course) ... those are albums that I not only fail to enjoy, but don't seem very progressive either I can't see why anybody would feel that way about CTTE, but imagine a hardcore space rock or RIO fan who finds the whole thing overblown and uncreative ... BTW ( IMO, of course) ...  if we never review albums that we don't (honestly) dislike, then we are failing in our effects to provide a balanced guide to prog lovers out there. Cheers!

you've done quite a bit of writing

I think a one star rating is unfair for CTTE because any Yes fan is going to want that album so it is a minimum two star album. It's not my favorite Yes album; but I've owned it three times: vinyl, CD, and the remaster, which someone gave me. I also had Yessongs on vinyl, which features the track. CTTE is so often written about that it is essential to a collection.

The rating system is really not a question of quality.  Whoever designed it (Bob?) was quite clever.  It really aspires to rate albums by the contribution to the genre, their 'essentialness' to a collection.  Many people rate an album they like five stars because they think it is a great album or one star because they don't like it without really thinking about whether or not someone else should pick up this album.  They rate it based on how they see it qualitatively. In the long run, it all  works out.

There are certainly albums that are more essentail to a collection than some in the top ten.  I would argue that Brain Salad Surgery is more essential than Wish You Were Here; but people love Floyd. I would also argue that Selling England is not essential, and eveything I've read about it seems to agree; but people love Genesis

Was that my rating? If so, I still stand by it. Is it unfair? Perhaps. However, I think my negative review brings up some valid points that someone who is considering buying the album should hear; it's certainly more constructive than yet another reviewer saying, basically, "THE BEST ALBUM EVER!" (Most of the reviews here are much better than that, but in the end a lot of them boil down to that.) I also use correct punctuation, and although I'm not sure if I mentioned it in the review, I have listened to it about ten times and I still don't like it. That's hardly a "hate crime."

The reviews are based on how much you like something; whether or not it was a "trendsetter" doesn't have much relevance to me.

Actually now it appears that besides mine there has been one other 1 star review recently. Whatever, http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=72180 - here's the link so you guys know what I'm talking about, and so all you Yes fans can yell and scream at me (but only if you want to).

I PAY NO ATTENTION TO THOSE REVIEWS AS THEY ARE BY THE GENESIS FANBOYS WHO ARE JUST JEALOUS BECAUSE YES MADE THE GREATEST PROG ALBUM.....EVER & WE ALL KNOW THE TITLE OF THAT ALBUM!!!!!

Progger wrote: I PAY NO ATTENTION TO THOSE REVIEWS AS THEY ARE BY THE GENESIS FANBOYS WHO ARE JUST JEALOUS BECAUSE YES MADE THE GREATEST PROG ALBUM.....EVER & WE ALL KNOW THE TITLE OF THAT ALBUM!!!!!

Yay for Open Your Eyes!

Progger is the first person ever to pay no attention using upper case letters and five exclamation marks.

Progger wrote: I PAY NO ATTENTION TO THOSE REVIEWS AS THEY ARE BY THE GENESIS FANBOYS WHO ARE JUST JEALOUS BECAUSE YES MADE THE GREATEST PROG ALBUM.....EVER & WE ALL KNOW THE TITLE OF THAT ALBUM!!!!!

This forum truly is wonderful sometimes. Lay off the caps, exclamation points, and large font already. It just makes you look like a spazeroid. I am interested in Genesis, but I own no albums; in fact, I've only ever heard 2 or three of their songs. Like I said in my previous post, whether you agree with me or not, my negative review is more helpful than something like this.

OK, it's better to discuss these matters here in our forum than exchange attacks through the reviews.

Ghandi2/BoB mentioned review was in accordandce with PA guidelines and reflects HIS opinion.

Otherwise, when we all are talking it's not necessary to shout. We all shall be heard/seen using the same volume/letters.  

If this thread runs to personal attacks it'll be closed, comrades. Sorry.

Ghandi 2 wrote: Was that my rating? If so, I still stand by it. Is it unfair? Perhaps. However, I think my negative review brings up some valid points that someone who is considering buying the album should hear; it's certainly more constructive than yet another reviewer saying, basically, "THE BEST ALBUM EVER!" (Most of the reviews here are much better than that, but in the end a lot of them boil down to that.) I also use correct punctuation, and although I'm not sure if I mentioned it in the review, I have listened to it about ten times and I still don't like it. That's hardly a "hate crime." The reviews are based on how much you like something; whether or not it was a "trendsetter" doesn't have much relevance to me.

Actually, it is not supposed to be based exclusively on opinion, as per my last post, just before yours. 

It would be interesting for me to know how old you are.  People leave that out of their profile and it is frustrating at times; it is interesting to hear how younger people, now listening to Yes, Genesis or whatever for the first time, take to it. Many older people have become so inculcated with much of this music; it is hard to be objective. Some may also steeped in the classics of Genesis, Yes and Floyd without perhap valuing neo-prog or what has come later. I agree that a one star review that offers criticism of an album is better than the endless, "this is the greatest album ever" review. In the quest for that elusive objectivty one often changes ones mind as well. That is the wonderful thing about a community like this.  It forces you to listen to music through everybody's ears.

It is inconceivable how anyone prog minded can listen to an album such as CTTE and come on here and give it 1 star.If you are prog minded and you have given an album that is universally hailed as awesome in rock circles a serious listen to then it beggars belief that anyone could come up with such a denigrating rating.I think it is, or has to be an attention seeking gesture if you are serious then one wonders what is going inside your head musically that is.

ken4musiq wrote: Ghandi 2 wrote: Was that my rating? If so, I still stand by it. Is it unfair? Perhaps. However, I think my negative review brings up some valid points that someone who is considering buying the album should hear; it's certainly more constructive than yet another reviewer saying, basically, "THE BEST ALBUM EVER!" (Most of the reviews here are much better than that, but in the end a lot of them boil down to that.) I also use correct punctuation, and although I'm not sure if I mentioned it in the review, I have listened to it about ten times and I still don't like it. That's hardly a "hate crime." The reviews are based on how much you like something; whether or not it was a "trendsetter" doesn't have much relevance to me. Actually, it is not supposed to be based exclusively on opinion, as per my last post, just before yours.  It would be interesting for me to know how old you are.  People leave that out of their profile and it is frustrating at times; it is interesting to hear how younger people, now listening to Yes, Genesis or whatever for the first time, take to it. Many older people have become so inculcated with much of this music; it is hard to be objective. Some may also steeped in the classics of Genesis, Yes and Floyd without perhap valuing neo-prog or what has come later. I agree that a one star review that offers criticism of an album is better than the endless, "this is the greatest album ever" review. In the quest for that elusive objectivty one often changes ones mind as well. That is the wonderful thing about a community like this.  It forces you to listen to music through everybody's ears.

I omit my age because on a forum your age doesn't really matter; I wish to be judged by what I post, not by my age. Not that I'm saying you would, but some people do and would instantly dismiss whatever I said.

However, since you asked, I'm 16, 17 in 2 months. The vast majority of my music has all been purchased within the last year (before I bought DSOTM on a whim, my only music as an overplayed copy of Rubber Soul and 2 Linkin Park albums and a System of a Down album. I still am ashamed that I ever liked Linkin Park. SOAD is not so bad.) As for my first listening of Floyd (which is my favorite band), to be honest, I didn't like DSOTM; the slightly country sound scared me. Then after some more listens I loved it (of course, now I don't play it anymore because I've heard it too many times :/). As for neo-prog...I do like Radiohead, In Abstentia by Porcupine Tree, and LTE 2; but other than that usually I try to avoid anything from the '90s or later, and for the most part I avoid the '80s like the plague.

I'm planning on getting some Genesis soon, and I will continue to occasionally dig out CTTE, because just maybe it'll suddenly hit me with a flash of brilliance, and I'll understand why everyone seems to love it so much. I want to like Yes (who wants to hate an album that they payed good money for?), but I am finding it very hard.

You seem almost believable but I just read your thread' If I don't like CTTE' again why does it get rated so highly etc well, if you are serious about moving from basic rock to prog perhaps you should open your ears to more involved complicated time structures than the Floyd or else you'll sink like the Titanic.

What? Besides the completely unnecessary allegation that I'm lying; for which I have no motive, by the way, I AM trying to get into more complex stuff; hence the CTTE purchase. As for complicated time structures, weird ones don't bother me since I don't even notice them; on LTE 2 on the liner notes for the song Another Dimension, they talk about how this one section moves from 5/8 to 7/8 (or something like that) in bizzare patterns, and if they hadn't told me, I honestly would have thought the whole thing was in 4/4 (with changes in tempo, obviously)! So that doesn't bother me; I simply don't like the music. I think Zappa used some crazy stuff on Hot Rats, The Grand Wazoo, and One Size Fits All, and I like those albums. Also, if you hadn't noticed, I am trying to like CTTE, but I simply can't. I will continue to try, but I really don't think that I'm suddenly going to like it after one or two more listens.

So there's no need to be condescending.

Ghandi, no one said you were lying.Why don't you continue to listen to the finest albun in all of progland it may just get you, if not, then Yes or this album are not for you.But not liking it I can accept, what I find hard to accept is rating an album that has been revered by so many so lowly.Prog takes time. It is not an over night, over one year thing. You grow with it and it will shape your life.So sorry, if you thought I was alluding to you lying, which I most certainly wasn't

Well then I think you should choose your words more carefully in the future. Saying that "You seem almost believable" means that I'm not believable, which means you don't believe me, which means you think I'm lying.

I honestly don't care that lots of other people adore it; I don't, and that should be reflected in my review, because then somebody else out there will know that they might not like it. If I rate it highly because other people love it, then the person who comes here looking through the reviews for advice will never know its valid faults which may or may not prevent him/her from enjoying it.

English is a simple language when someone says they don't believe you they are not saying you are lying.If you want to continue your line of not liking CTTE then fine but you will be a very lone voice crying in the wilderness.Sure, they may be a couple more in here but they will be in the minority.As for your review subjectivity,it won't sway another's opinion, once they listen to something.To reiterate, Yes is, was, and always will be, the finest band on God's planet.

Fragile wrote: English is a simple language when someone says they don't believe you they are not saying you are lying.

If you want to continue your line of not liking CTTE then fine but you will be a very lone voice crying in the wilderness.Sure, they may be a couple more in here but they will be in the minority.

As for your review subjectivity,it won't sway another's opinion, once they listen to something.

To reiterate, Yes is, was, and always will be, the finest band on God's planet

Please put spaces in between your sentences; it makes your post easier to read.