"Fake" instruments v.s "real" instruments
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics related to progressive music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21658
Printed Date: April 24 2025 at 18:58
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: "Fake" instruments v.s "real" instruments
Posted By: Meddler
Subject: "Fake" instruments v.s "real" instruments
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 14:42
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Me and my friend were semi-debating about real instruments and fake ones. This was how it was, he would say a violin is real because it didn't need electricity to operate, and a keyboard/synth was. It all started about when he was saying electronic music wasn't real. What are you thoughts, PA community? Dang... I just realised this should in be in regular Polls.  Please move it admins, if thats right. |
Replies:
Posted By: ANDREW
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 14:53
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Do you think that a keyboard/synth makes "fake" music? NO. |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 14:58
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Long before I discovered prog and all his amazing keyboards I used to think that way...not anymore!!!!
------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: R o V e R
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 15:02
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i'm so tired of stupid polls,
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Posted By: Meddler
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 15:08
I'm sorry if you think this is stupid. But you think it is, please detain yourself from posting in it. |
R o V e R wrote:Posted By: akin
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 15:49
Fake? Why? Just because the sound is not taken by the contact of two materials?  A synthesizer is like a piano, if the player press notes at random, there will be no music at all. But if they press it in a specific sequence, a masterpiece is made. Fake for me is samples and remixes that pick a song already composed and played, insert some sounds and call it a new song  . |
Posted By: R o V e R
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 15:50
you are right, i shouldnt post, (admin, - delete my post) |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 16:03
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So electric guitars, basses, keyboards, synths, electronics, and basically any production or recording of instruments is out... ... No. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: R o V e R
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 16:06
fake music
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Posted By: Joolz
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 16:19
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Please elaborate as to what is 'fake music'. Surely music is either
musical or it isn't. How can it be 'fake'? Or are you referring to the
sounds used to create music (eg string sounds made on a synth instead of real strings)? |
Posted By: UnknownFlow
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 16:19
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I wouldn't call synths "fake" I think electronic samples (if they were
really bad) could be described as fake by some people, but personally I
just consider any electronic instrument a different instrument
altogether and I would have them in the same competition as any
acoustic instrument. It all just depends on how good it sounds, even an
electronic imitation of an instrument that sounds rubbish in comparison
to an instrument it's trying to imitate can have it's own unique sound
that might be quite good. EDIT: Just to elaborate on that: What i had in mind is Neil Pearts new thing of using samples of percussion in songs, Electronic drums in the 80's sounded great because that worked with the music. Although recently he has used Electronic samples of Percussion in songs that previously used acoustic percussion, i.e. Xanadu and The Trees. I personally doesnt think this works, part of the majic of Xanadu was the atmpospherics at the beginning. But i wouldn't dismiss the samples as being fake and unworthy of use, they are perfectly nice sounds, but it's because of the previous recording that i'm used to that it doesn't appeal to me as much. |
Posted By: Empathy
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 16:50
Yes. Our music, especially, is extremely fake.  ------------- Pure Brilliance: 
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Posted By: Meddler
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 16:57
I'm reffering to keyboards in general, and to some extent eletronic music. (e.i. Frank Klepacki(not prog but electronic music), Kraftwerk, etc.) So I would be reffering to something used to create music. |
Posted By: AtLossForWords
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 16:58
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I doubt you will find many people on a prog website that will vote yes. Anyways, I voted no like the rest of you. -------------  
"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls." |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 17:14
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It is true that you could say it's fake. Isn't that waht synthesised means? But
there are some sounds that you just can't get from acoustic (or acoustic based) insruments. Would early prog have been the same without the moog, or mellowtron? I do have to say that entirely synthesised music was interesting as a novelty at first, but ended up not holding up over time. There are several bands that were totally synthesised, that ended up returning to strings, and acoustic percussion (although, this was most prevalent in New Wave/Alternative music). ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Bastille Dude
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 17:27
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Fake??? I vote No! ------------- DEATH TO FALSE PROG! |
Posted By: Empathy
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 17:27
No, it isn't. syn·the·size https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dsynthesized">  P Pronunciation Key (s n th-s z )v. syn·the·sized, syn·the·siz·ing, syn·the·siz·es v. tr.
------------- Pure Brilliance:
|
Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 17:37
Every human activity is "fake"; meaning that, behind our actions, lies an previous elaboration. This exclude, off course, self preservation impulses. To manipulate sounds is "artificial", so, the tools to get there are not an important matter. Only... I always get a weird feeling out of listening to "piano" sound comming from a sinth... kind of freak me out a bit...  ------------- ¡Beware of the Bee! |
Posted By: YYZed
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 17:53
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Does a keyboard need a human being to operate it in real time? Yes. It is a "real" instrument.
------------- 
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Posted By: MrHiccup
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 18:20
Fake sounds, maybe. Fake music, no! ------------- Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends... |
Posted By: Jaydubz
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 19:14
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No... ------------- "Music is the best." ~ FZ |
Posted By: int_2375
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 21:05
| I voted yes to be singled out. |
Posted By: Speakerfish
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 21:15
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I had an arguement with a friend about this. He saw nothing wrong with writing music on his own, but synthesizing the instruments on a MIDI notation software. I had a big problem with this.
However, in what we are talking about, there is nothing wrong with synth instruments as long as there is some sort of humanity in playing them or arranging them. ------------- Dissonance; subtle harmonic dissonance Contemplating and completing the negative space Romantic symphonies left on the floodplains |
Posted By: Zoso
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 21:28
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The notion is absurd.
-------------  |
Posted By: int_2375
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 22:32
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What? Whats your big problem with this? If you don't like music made on a computer, don't listen to it. Simple. |
Posted By: 46and2
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 22:44
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On Meshuggah's album catch 33, the drums are faked. The "drums" on the album are actually an advanced drum machine called the drumset from hell. Of course tomas haake is able to play the material, they played a little over ten minutes of that album when i saw them live. ------------- 
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Posted By: Jaydubz
Date Posted: April 12 2006 at 23:03
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I've heard plenty of terrible music played by "real musicians" on real instruments, and plenty of profoundly beautiful and emotional music executed using computers and/or synthesizers. Zappa's '80s Synclavier pieces were done using the exact methodology you describe - entering data via a (computer) keyboard note-for-note. I've never been a big-fan of composing using a piano-roll editor; I've always strived to sequence by "playing" the data using some sort of controller (keyboard, windsynth or percussion pad) with a minimum of "post-work" to keep it a fluid as possible and avoiding a "stiff" feel. I've recently stumbled upon a "better mousetrap" for writing orchestral scores, though...software that allows you to compose as though you were sitting in front of a score, triggers super-high-quality samples of the London Symphony Orchestra recorded at Abbey Road, and sounds as fluid as if you'd played each part in with a controller. Electronic Musician named it one of their "Products of the Year" for 2005... http://www.notionmusic.com/ - http://www.notionmusic.com/ Zappa would've LOVED this software!
------------- "Music is the best." ~ FZ |
Posted By: DrWizard
Date Posted: April 26 2006 at 17:03
Do you think an electric guitar makes "Fake Music"????????????????
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Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: April 26 2006 at 17:06
My thoughts exactly Akin. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
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Posted By: wolf0621
Date Posted: April 26 2006 at 18:22
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"Fake" defined as being "unreal"? So if I called playing guitar lines on a synth using a guitar sound patch "playing the guitar" that would be fake, while actually playing those same lines on an actual guitar would be real? In those terms, a synth used to mimic or replicate another instrument's sound is fake...That doesn't make the actual playing fake, the person operating the synth really is playing an instrument, just not the one that it sounds like he's playing... I take it that the connotation attached to the term "fake" in this thread is meant as derrogatory & I don't view it as such relative to synths. The talent involved is real, the technology used to project the sound is immaterial...
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Posted By: Time-Machinist
Date Posted: April 26 2006 at 18:39
| No, of course :) |
Posted By: Tenth Chaffinch
Date Posted: April 26 2006 at 19:41
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Keyboards can add a world of depth to music. Listen to Camel's Docks/Beached combo on the Nude album and try to imagine it without the keyboards. Not pretty.
Saying keyboards are fake is like saying the guitar is fake. ------------- www.myspace.com/fatherunderground |
Posted By: goose
Date Posted: April 26 2006 at 20:26
Does a synthesiser need a human being to operate it in real time? No! |
Posted By: wolf0621
Date Posted: April 27 2006 at 12:48
This answer addresses a very specific implementation of synth, one in which the material is auto-programmed. Nevertheless, someone had to create what the synth later plays back. There's still musical knowledge & skill involved, even if it's not happening in "real time". I can see the argument though in calling this "fake", as it detracts from the live situation & spontanaety of the music...
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Posted By: Empathy
Date Posted: April 27 2006 at 14:36
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To paraphrase two of my favorite quotes from Live at Pompeii regarding their increasing use of synthesizers: Gilmour: "It's all extensions of what's coming out of our heads" Waters: "If you give a man a Les Paul guitar, he doesn't become Eric Clapton. If you give a man an amp and a synthesizer, he doesn't become whoever. He doesn't become us." ------------- Pure Brilliance:
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Posted By: Phil
Date Posted: April 27 2006 at 15:53
| Thinking about keyboards, I don't agree that say the Mellotron or hammond make fake sounds - although originally they tried to imitate other sounds, they have a distinctive tone of their very own. But, I do find some synth sounds very artifical. |