Dominant progrock persons
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Topic: Dominant progrock persons
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Subject: Dominant progrock persons
Date Posted: May 16 2006 at 17:36
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The last days I have seen a lot of Inside Of .. dvd's (Yes, ELP, King Crimson) and again I was stunned what an incredible impact the position and opinion of one person had on the development of a group and or the musical direction of an album. If you take a look at the history there are so many examples of 'ego clashes', 'narcistic behaviour' and 'ego-gratification': * Jon Anderson and his Far-Eastern philosophical ideas on Tales From Topografic Oceans, eventually Rick Wakeman left Yes because of the musical direction.
* Peter Gabriel his Rael concept ideas, eventually Peter Gabriel left because of the huge tensions between him and the rest of the band
* Phil Collins his commercial musical ideas from And Then There Were Three, eventually Genesis turned from a symphonic rock formation into pop-prog band
* Bryan Ferry had problems with Eddie Jobson's popularity, eventually Jobson left Roxy Music
* Roger Waters wanted to control everything during The Wall, eventually he left Pink Floyd very frustrated
* Greg Lake and Keith Emerson had many clashes because of their huge ego's in ELP
* Fish got more and more problems with his emotions and drinking in Marillion, clashed with his band mates en eventually went solo
* Ritchie Blackmore used very unpredictable behaviour to impress his members in Deep Purple
* Ian Anderson is known as a person who wants to control .. so the popular and demanding Eddie Jobson left Jethro Tull is said ..
* John Wetton and Eddie Jobson clashed in Uk about the musical direction
* Robert Fripp behaved himself very unpleasant when it didn't work out as he wished (not talking for days, playing the same scales for hours, offending persons very badly, acting very passive-agressive)
What are your thoughts about these facts?
And what's your dominant progrock personality # 1?
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Replies:
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: May 16 2006 at 17:48
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Neal Morse ------------- 
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Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: May 16 2006 at 17:48
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I guess my vote is more for today and not for prog in general. In general, I'd have to go with Waters...although I'm not a huge fan.
E -------------
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Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: May 16 2006 at 17:49
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Well as far as Ritchie Blackmore, I doubt he gets on with hardly anyone. I think more than fifteen musicians (or something like that) were fired or had problems with Ritchie.
Roger Waters went a bit over the top with The Wall.
But at the end of the day they gave us classics like Made in Japan and The wall.
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Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: May 16 2006 at 17:55
| I'll vote for Phil Collins - his ego has probably caused the most damage. People like Robert Fripp and Eddie Jobson might be insufferable to work with but they make good music in any environment. that's why I won't vote for Waters - to me he lost his touch a long time before he left the band. |
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: May 16 2006 at 18:01
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Well, I am very concerned about Neal Morse, in my opinion this worcaholic suffers from a kind of religion-mania.
About Ritchie Blackmore and Roger Waters: "A miscplaced childhood is a musicans's goldmine" ..
About Phil Collins: "take a beer of me, Laplace, I fully agree because I have voted Phil Collins, 'a virtuosic worcaholic narcistic drummer' ..
 .. !!! |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: May 16 2006 at 18:05
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How about a band containing Fripp,Blackmore and Jon Anderson? Poor old Jon would get beaten to a pulp....  |
Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: May 16 2006 at 18:06
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Fripp and Waters.
And stop complaining that is was Collins fault that Genesis went pop. IT WAS THE WHO BAND'S FAULT FFS!! ------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! |
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: May 16 2006 at 18:08
I don't think so Tony R, don't forget that his nickname was 'the Hippie with the iron fist' ... .. but your idea is thrilling and invites to other possibilites  !
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: May 16 2006 at 18:12
as in "who deserves to be put in a band with Fripp and Blackmore?"  How about Phil Collins? or Tony Banks for that matter.... |
erik neuteboom wrote:Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: May 16 2006 at 18:20
Typical British humor  , as dry a a good sherry!
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Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: May 16 2006 at 18:21
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<<Well, I am very concerned about Neal Morse, in my opinion this worcaholic suffers from a kind of religion-mania.>>
Not sure "suffers" should be used here. He's happy being a Christian and has a new passion for God. Why is he suffering? Personally, I'm happy for Neal. Furthermore, as a Christian, he's produced 3 amazing CD's. As long as his heart is in it, I say keep doing what he's doing. E -------------
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Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: May 16 2006 at 18:22
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<<nd stop complaining that is was Collins fault that Genesis went pop. IT WAS THE WHO BAND'S FAULT FFS!!>>
Yeah, a bit tired of one man taking the blame. E -------------
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Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: May 16 2006 at 18:25
| I agree that it is a very subjective conclusion by me but as a huge Spock's Beard fan I am concerned why he left that band and the way he embraces religion (although that's his good right). |
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: May 16 2006 at 18:38
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I'm a huge SB fan, too; however, I can see how Neal felt compelled to leave. Becoming a Christian just lit a fire under him. I think I read an interview where he stated that he wanted to sing about his faith, but had to mask it in SB (primarily with Snow). On his own terms as a solo artist, he has the freedom to do whatever he wants and doesn't have to worry about the others raising a stink about him.
Lastly, I just find it a bit odd that people have a tough time accepting music geared towards God as a subject matter, but will easily listen to (a certain prog metal band for whom I've recently listened to) the woe is me attitude that plagues other bands. I listened to a couple of discs that was just too bleak and dark for my tastes...and they're going back. E -------------
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Posted By: MattNYR
Date Posted: May 16 2006 at 18:38
I didn't think the question was who's personality did the most damage. I think Peter Gabriel had the most dominant personality, even though it may have been a good thing for Genesis at the time. ------------- [IMG]http://www.highergroundmusic.com/i/artists/umforiste.gif"> |
Posted By: Bern
Date Posted: May 16 2006 at 18:49
I'm a huge Fripp fan but man this guy's a jerk 
-------------  
RIP in bossa nova heaven. |
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: May 16 2006 at 18:55
I think every shrink will shake to treat Mr.Fripp because of his passive agression  ..
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Posted By: Dirk
Date Posted: May 16 2006 at 19:10
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I'm not into religion at all, the way Neal Morse handles it all is ok though he still makes very good music. Also the lyrics on Testimony are touching he's not preaching at all, just telling his story. Thinking about dominating persons in bands: Mikeal Akefeld, Steven Wilson, Roine Stolt, Daniel Gildenlow all in a positive way. As for personality clashes and a change of direction of the bands, all the great 70's bands went more or less mainstream (except KC).I think the sign of the times was more important here than the personalities of the individual members. |
Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: May 16 2006 at 19:34
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From the little I know, I think Ian Anderson is incredibly dominant person. Yes, he likes to underline in various interviews that Jethro Tull is not just him, but collective of musicians working together, and that he gives everyone freedom to express theirself, that he always listens to others ideas etc etc etc, but I somehow think that it's not totally true, or IA probaly wants it to look this way, but in fact he is domineering his band and rightly so.
------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: Horlequism
Date Posted: May 16 2006 at 19:59
| My vote goes for KC's Robert Fripp...he's an asshole like I've said and wants his way because he's such a genius and can't really get his ideas out calmly and with patience...he wants people to get it right away or he gets really upset...he lets people go like a revolving door because they won't get something right away...with Fripp, you basically have to think, walk, talk like he does or you'll never be in King Crimson... |
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: May 16 2006 at 20:19
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<<I'm not into religion at all, the way Neal Morse handles it all is ok though he still makes very good music. Also the lyrics on Testimony are touching he's not preaching at all, just telling his story.>>
I remember when Testimony came out, somebody on a Yahoo Groups discussion group had a problem with Morse being too 'preachy'. You've nailed it on the head, however. He's simply telling HIS story. Even with One and ? he's still telling a story. I think his post Spock's solo stuff are greatly better than his pre Spock's solo material. E -------------
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Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: May 16 2006 at 20:24
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That damn Fripp... I love him   ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: progadicto
Date Posted: May 16 2006 at 20:32
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I think that the most dominant person on prog in Mr. Roger Waters... his ideas sinked PF with albums like The Wall and Final Cut... I agree with many of you that consider dominant persons like Fripp, Ian Anderson or Peter Gabriel, but I think that the "Waters Effect" on Pink Floyd its almost historical... ------------- ... E N E L B U N K E R... |
Posted By: Abstrakt
Date Posted: May 17 2006 at 02:24
| Surely Roger Waters! |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: May 17 2006 at 03:38
| I voted for Waters also, although he's one of my favourite musicians (exactly in a month's time I'm going to see him live!). We all know what happened with him and Pink Floyd... though his departure was an enormous loss for the band in a musical sense. Ritchie Blackmore is another domineering personality who's at the same time a great musician. |
Posted By: RaphaelT
Date Posted: May 17 2006 at 03:44
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Peter Hammill!! ------------- yet you still have time! |
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: May 17 2006 at 07:10
Well, until now it seems to become a battle between # 1 Robert Fripp and # 2 Roger Waters, to my surprise Peter Gabriel has more votes than Phil Collins  ... !
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Posted By: Kord
Date Posted: June 10 2006 at 11:38
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Peter Hammil, Steve Howe, Kevin Ayers, Nick Turner and Robert Wyatt?????where are them?? ------------- [IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5f/Genesis_Group.jpg" border"> |
Posted By: dagrush
Date Posted: June 10 2006 at 23:57
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Waters, with Fripp and Blackmore (not that his bands are overly prog) not far behind
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/omgwtfdagrush/"> 
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Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: June 11 2006 at 05:34
Since Roge Waters went to psycho-therapeutical help his behaviour has turned into way more mild and humoristic  . I wish Robert Fripp would follow Roger Waters with this ..
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Posted By: Mandrakeroot
Date Posted: July 24 2006 at 10:56
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EMERSON ------------- 
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Posted By: Fassbinder
Date Posted: July 24 2006 at 11:03
| Roger Waters, I think... |
Posted By: Arrrghus
Date Posted: July 24 2006 at 11:05
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Where's Wakeman?
------------- 
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Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: July 24 2006 at 11:06
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Better now than never Mandrakeroot !
By the way, read his auto-biography entitled Pictures Of An Exhibitionist, very interesting about his behaviour: sex, drugs and prog 'n' roll!
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Posted By: Open-Mind
Date Posted: July 24 2006 at 11:45
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Waters
------------- "I'm on a roll, I'm on a roll this time, I feel my luck could change.. " |
Posted By: MattiR
Date Posted: July 24 2006 at 12:02
| Waters --> dictator, boss... |
Posted By: Badabec
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 13:31
| Robert Fripp. Because he is still doing progressive rock and not pop, so as Phil Collins... |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 13:50
When did VdGG ever go mainstream? -------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 13:53
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Fish. He's funny, charismatic, and commands attention on the stage. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 13:56
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Uncle Fish. If you listen to any live recordings with him on it, he can really communicate with the crowd and he really pushes the band to play their best. ------------- 
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Posted By: Fassbinder
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 14:15
Never.
But they didn't exist as a group when other groups went mainstream.
BTW, VdGG is not considered by many as one of the great groups. This fact causes me to some ambiguous feelings: on one hand -- how can you pass by this wonderful group; on the other hand -- well, continue not to count them, let it for the initiated only (kind of "elitistic" attitude).
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Posted By: kebjourman
Date Posted: July 25 2006 at 23:19
| id say fripp |
Posted By: Australian
Date Posted: July 26 2006 at 02:11
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Robert Fripp, he is of course the man who invented true prog rock. ------------- 
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Posted By: omri
Date Posted: July 29 2006 at 17:58
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Sorry if it sounds rude but who cares about those details ? I am interested in the music (and lyrics) and I could'nt care less of the behaviour of whoever you wrote there. I thought dominant mean influencial so I voted for Fripp. The question who is more ego maniak is not relevant for me ! ------------- omri |
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: July 29 2006 at 18:16
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Funny contrast: a "dominant person" and "those details" .. |
Posted By: Fassbinder
Date Posted: July 29 2006 at 18:40
A result of the word-to-word translation, maybe?
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Posted By: omri
Date Posted: July 31 2006 at 15:51
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No Fassbinder ! The details are who behaved more rudely. The dominancy is about the music. The contrast is built in in my post between the unimportancy of what this poll is all about and the music which is very important for me and I guess to all of us. ------------- omri |
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: July 31 2006 at 15:58
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If you consider this poll as unimportant, please don't join it with your meaningless contribution !
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Posted By: omri
Date Posted: July 31 2006 at 17:01
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I joined it by mistake. The only reason I posted again was your's statement about the contrast which I tried to explain where it came from. As I said in my first post it is irrelevant for me and you may think else. The thing is you were trying to make fun of my english instead of either argue about the context or ignore it.
Check your self man ! ------------- omri |
Posted By: sbrushfan
Date Posted: July 31 2006 at 17:42
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Alright, alright...retract the claws please. This is an OPINION forum, and whether or not you agree with it is really of no consequence. Opinions are like assholes...everyone has one. ------------- Some world views are spacious, and some are merely spaced... |
Posted By: toolis
Date Posted: August 28 2006 at 05:01
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i don't know how do you mean "dominant" but Fripp couldn't be one cause he always gave his fellow musicians a lot of "space" even though he was the mastermind of KC... i think mr Waters' insanity/genius deserves this title... |
Posted By: gong
Date Posted: August 28 2006 at 09:01
i agree with all of that.
my dominant progrock personality is Frank Zappa.
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Posted By: Sloth
Date Posted: August 28 2006 at 21:17
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Robert Fripp no contest
------------- BUH!!! It's what the Buffalo say! |
Posted By: Melomaniac
Date Posted: August 29 2006 at 10:23
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Fripp without a doubt... ------------- "One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio |
Posted By: Godfrey
Date Posted: August 29 2006 at 10:33
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Roger, of course. ------------- 
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