FOR TULL UNDERRATERS-try these track list
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Topic: FOR TULL UNDERRATERS-try these track list
Posted By: Guests
Subject: FOR TULL UNDERRATERS-try these track list
Date Posted: June 02 2006 at 22:46
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When I bought Tulls first 4 original albums 10 years ago I would have only rated them as follows:
This was-6.5(only decent)
Stand up-7.5(only good)
Benefit-7.5(only good)
Aqualung-8(only fairly good)
But when I heard all the great bonus tracks I made my own tracklists and I have come up with the much improved ratings. You must remember that Tull have close too 100 bonus tracks and half of these are among Tulls best 100 songs and many of them are the best session songs which were strangely left off the albums. With the injection of Tulls exciting bonus stuff and the removal of some songs, I have come up with these strong ratings
This was-8(fairly good debut)
Stand up-8.5(very good)
Benefit-8.5(very good)
Aqualung-9.5(awesome)
This Was shouild have been alot better than how it was released. Love story, Christmas song and One for John Gee are songs from 1968 and they are before it's time. They are probably Tulls 3 best songs from 1968 but weren't even on the This Was album. CRAZY. Go buy the This Was remaster and take out the 2 or 3 weakest songs which would be Round(album filler), Serenade to a cuckoo(outdated cover song), Cats squirrel(outdated cover song), My Sunday feeling(swap it with the better remixed version) imo.Then make an album from the remaining songs and mix up the track order and tell me if you can find a better 1968 album than that. A much better mix of jazz, blues and folk with better vocals from Ian among the track list below. You would be lucky to find five 1968 albums as good. Here's my track listing ;)
love story(great heavy song before it's time, good vocals)
move on alone(very nice)
dharma for one(good)
christmas song(nice)
my Sunday feeling-remix(good)
some day the sun won't shine on you(good)
one for john gee(cool jazz tune)
beggars farm(cool)
it's breaking me up(cool)
song for jeffrey(good)
Stand Up should have been alot better than how it was released. Living in the past, Sweet dream and Driving song are from 1969 and they are songs before it's time once again. They are almost Tulls best 3 songs from 1969 but weren't even on the Stand up album. CRAZY. Go buy the Stand up remaster and take out the 2 or 3 weakest songs which would be Back to the family(slightly boring), 17(outdated) and For a thousand mothers(slightly messy) imo. Then make an album from the remaining songs and mix up the track order and tell me if you can find a better 1969 album than that. You would be lucky to find three 1969 albums as good. Here's my Stand up track listing ;)
living in the past(classic)
driving song(cool)
jeffrey goes to leicester square(cool)
sweet dream(almost classic)
reasons for waiting(nice)
nothing is easy(good)
look into the sun(very nice)
bouree(cool)
fatman(cool)
we used to know(nice)
a new day yesterday(good)
Benefit should have been alot better than how it was released. Teacher, Witches promise and Just trying to be are from 1970 and they are songs before it's time further again. They are probably Tulls best 3 songs from 1970 but weren't even on the Benefit album. CRAZY. Go buy the Benefit remaster and take out the 2 or 3 weakest songs which would be Inside(roughly recorded), With you there to help me(slightly boring) and For Michael Collins Jefrrey and me(good, but album needs more atmosphere) imo. Then make an album from the remaining songs and mix up the track order and tell me if you can find a better 1970 album than that. You would be lucky to find five 1970 albums as good. Here's my Benefit track listing ;)
teacher(classic)
just trying to be(very nice)
nothing to say(good)
witches promise(classic)
to cry you a song-(almost classic, but a bit overrated)
sossity(very nice)
play in time(cool and underrated)
time for everything(cool and underrated)
alive and well and living in(cool and underrated)
son(cool and underrated)
Aqualung should have been alot better than how it was released. Life is a long song(remixed), Up the pool, Wondring again, For Later, Dr Bogenbroom are from 1971 and they are better songs than anything on side 2 of the Aqualung album. Lick your fingers clean is a catchy number also and Wind up and Locomotive breath have 2 much better versions which were left off the Aqualung album. CRAZY. Go buy the Aqualung remaster, the Living in the past compilation and MU best of JT and group the 20 songs from 1971 and take out the weakest 6 or 7 songs which would be Wind up(very overated, messy singing, simple guitar riff, swap it with the quad version which is much cooler), Hymn 43(cool chorus, but messy verses), Locomotive breath(good, but overrated, swap it with the cooler MU version), My God(good, but overrated, rough singing and repetive vocals and a bit of a try hard Sabbath rip off), Nursie(decent album filler), Slipstream(decent album filler) imo. Then make an album from the remaining songs and mix up the track order and tell me if you can find a better 1971 album than that. You would be lucky to find three 1971 albums as good. Here's my Aqualung track listing ;)
aqualung(almost classic)
up the pool(very nice)
cross eyed mary(classic)
wondring aloud(short and sweet)
for later(catchy)
dr bogenbroom(very good)
life is a long song-remix(classic)
locomotive breath-MU(cool version)
wondring again(very nice)
lick your fingers clean(catchy)
up to me(cool and underrated)
cheap day return(short and sweet)
wind up-quad(much better version)
mothergoose(very good)
The above 4 lists KILL the original track lists of the same albums. Aqualung could have been an amazing album, but it ended up being a fairly good but overrated. Benefit and Stand Up could have been VERY good albums, but they ended up being just good albums with not enough variety. This was could have been a fairly good debut, but it ended up being a slightly old fashioned outdated bluesy debut where Ian annoyingly sings with the back of his throat. Unless you have every song Tull have ever recorded in each year, you really don't know how great they really are. Tull were among the worlds best bands in 1968, 1969 and 1970. But they were the best going around in 1971 and 1972 once they recorded the brilliant Thick as a brick. They were always a mild prog band at the minimum. They were up there with the best in Heavy rock, folk rock and prog rock. They play songs which get straight to the point without lagging on. Such a great band who just didn't know how to choose the best songs for their albums ;). The most improved albums after the addition of bonus songs would be Warchild, Catfish and Broadsword. Just by swapping a few songs on each of the 21 albums, Tull can go from being a very good band(but inconsistent and sometimes overrated band) to being the greatest and most underrated band of all time ;). The 4 tracklists above are just an example of what each album could really sound like. I'll cover the other albums soon ;)
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Replies:
Posted By: aspinosa
Date Posted: June 02 2006 at 23:52
| I disagree that Tull are the greatest band, I agree they were up there with the best of heavy rock and folk rock, but there is a lack of sophistication in treir music , symhonic elements are missing is his music, They are limited musicians because of that, bands like Yes, Genesis, ELP, PFM, Kansas, had he ability to bring elements from classical music to rock, and Tull unfortunately was not able to do that, sorry. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: June 03 2006 at 01:33
| lol. Kansas have about 4 good complex songs, most of the others are just predictable hard rock songs. As for ELP, they only had 3 strong years. To say Tull were limted in talent is hilarious ;). Barriemore Barlow was a great drummer and I think had more talent than Bruford during the 70s. Barre was one of the better guitarists going around in the late 70s. They have always had excellent bass players. As for Ian Anderson, he'd be the ultimate when it comes to multi talented musician and songs writer. When it comes to listening to smartly written music with vocals being sung at the same time, I believe Tull are above all. Tull weren't known to play long passages of music, but so often prog songs with long passages of music are not very good. Tull knew when to write an epic and when not to. I love Yes, but I think some of the long passages they played in some of the songs from 1972-1974 were wasted recording time. Those bands couldn't pull off 20 minutes of non stop excellence like the first side of TAAB. Suppers ready starts to wear thin after 10 minutes, so does Gates of delirium. Ian Anderson is a genius who has written so many clever songs. Tull are just as tight and talented as any of the above, it's just that Tull don't drag on with their songs. They get straight to the point and they absolutely cream the above bands in the 80s and 90s. I think Gabriel Genesis showed their best during Trespass and Foxtrot, but Nursery Cryme was pretty disappointing apart from Samalcis and Hogweed. Heavy horses, A, Thick as a brick and Songs from the wood easily cover the complex songs Genesis and Yes offered in the 70s. But as I said, you need to have every Tull song to judge them properly ;) |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: June 03 2006 at 03:13
I agree 100% with everything you said.  Complexity and 20-minute-long songs aren't the only important factors in producing great music. Tull have always had very talented musicians (Martin Barre is one of the most underrated guitarists on the scene - only because he doesn't play 3.000 notes per second!), and Anderson has got a huge stage presence, even though nowadays he seems to have lost most of his considerable vocal abilities. Besides, he's one of the best lyricists and songwriters around.Anyway, as I have said countless times now, everyone is entitled to their own tastes...  |
progrocks wrote:Posted By: Masque
Date Posted: June 03 2006 at 04:01
 ... Kansas have nothing to do with this topic but yet again they get used like a sponge to clean up other bands arguments its typical . I fail to see why we need to run other bands down to prove a point it is childish and only causes angst  |
Posted By: JL08030
Date Posted: June 03 2006 at 04:05
You just requested that I take my three favorite songs from my favorite Tull album off the album. Well, NO!!!! ------------- A Chaos of Visions and Voices |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: June 03 2006 at 04:09
I beg your pardon, what's untrue? That everyone is entitled to their own tastes or what I said before?  |
Posted By: szati
Date Posted: June 03 2006 at 06:51
| Judging from the nickname and the avatar we have a Kansas fan here, so it must be a reflection to the statement that Kansas has only 4 complex songs. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: June 03 2006 at 10:29
| I have 4 Kansas albums and half the songs are medicore rock songs. What do you expect from American rock bands? ;) |
Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: June 03 2006 at 13:23
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Referring to the thread starter, your album track listings which include Tull's singles make perfect sense to us today, but back in 1968/69/70 music marketing strategies were very different from how they are now. singles seem virtually non-existent these days but then they were a very important marketing tool. singles were singles and albums were albums, most groups aimed specific recordings for the singles market and seperate ones for albums (beatles, stones, deep purple i.e. black night/strange kind of woman were not on "In Rock"), singles were their bread and butter for buyers who rarely bought albums as albums were expensive for most record buyers, BUT.. this was not a cast iron rule as "something" was released as a single lifted from "Abbey Road", so some may have bought an album on the strength of the single! This strategy soon became the norm as groups recorded an album and lifted track/s from it to sell the album. some albums had almost all their tracks issued as singles such as Def Leppard's "Hysteria" but as special editions and B sides such as outtakes from Peter Gabriel's albums. One group who resisted this and wanted to be exclusively an albums band were Led Zeppelin, they never had a single released in the UK (officially), so that strategy worked for them! A lot of people are puzzled nowadays but it was marketing fads and trends that were the reason for many strange things, such as 12" singles - special editions and picture discs were all designed to pander to collectors and fans' wallets. Today it's going back to that with new releases issued on cd with a DVD bonus pack and.........special edition vinyl double lp!! -------------  Prog Archives Tour Van 
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Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: June 03 2006 at 14:49
HOW DOES IT FEEL???????????????????????????????
You do the same thing to Tool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-------------  |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: June 03 2006 at 14:57
Tull didn't need to be complex. They could write a 3 minute song and it would be better than 75% of their contemporaries' 20 minute opuses.  ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: June 03 2006 at 19:47
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some of the songs I mentioned weren't released as singles though. I still think they should have included the singles on the albums because there are another 9 unheard songs to hear on the album. I'm sure everyone would have bought the albums still ;). Which of the following songs were released as singles?
love story
one for john gee
christmas song
living in the past
sweet dream
driving song
teacher
witches promise
just trying to be
I assume about half of them were released as singles. I'm a big fan of all of the above songs, some absolute classics among those :D
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: June 03 2006 at 20:28
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Warchild shouild have been alot better than how it was released. Paradise Steakhouse, Saturation, Quartet, Sealion 2, March the mad scientist, Warchild waltz, Glory Row, Rainbow Blues and Bungle in the jungle(remix) are songs from 1974. Most of them are probably among Tulls best 10 songs from 1974 but weren't even on the Warchild album. CRAZY. Go buy the Warchild remaster and take out the 6 or 7 weakest songs which would be Sealion 1(some embarrasing lyrics), Bungle in the jungle(some embarrasing lyrics), Two fingers(becomes annoying after 3rd listen), The third hoorah(becomes annoying after 3rd listen), Back door angels(good, but kind of drags on) and Ladies(good, but the clap sounds becomes annoying) imo.Then make an album from the remaining songs and mix up the track order and tell me if you can find a better 1974 album than that. A much better mix of heavy, medievil and folk with more powerful vocals, more hammond organ and more progressive among the track list below. You would be lucky to find three 1974 albums as good. Here's my track listing ;)
warchild(good)
march the mad scientist(interesting)
paradise steakhouse(catchy)
quartet(nice)
queen and country(very good)
only solitaire(nice)
saturation(cool)
skating away(nice)
sealion 2(cool, silly)
glory row(nice)
rainbow blues(very good)
warchild waltz(nice)
I'd give this list an 8.5, while I'd only give the original album a 7. The list above reminds me a bit of the original Aqualung album, but a bit better
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: June 07 2006 at 11:09
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This Was shouild have been alot better than how it was released. Love story, Christmas song and One for John Gee are songs from 1968 and they are before it's time. They are probably Tulls 3 best songs from 1968 but weren't even on the This Was album. CRAZY. Go buy the This Was remaster and take out the 2 or 3 weakest songs which would be Round(album filler), Serenade to a cuckoo(outdated cover song), Cats squirrel(outdated cover song), My Sunday feeling(swap it with the better remixed version) imo.Then make an album from the remaining songs and mix up the track order and tell me if you can find a better 1968 album than that. A much better mix of jazz, blues and folk with better vocals from Ian among the track list below. You would be lucky to find five 1968 albums as good. Here's my track listing ;)
How can you possibly take away Serenade and call it an outdated cover?
 This is the most superb flute piece he ever played and is a very different version of Roland rashaan Kirk's track. >> the highlight from the debut album
love story(great heavy song before it's time, good vocals)
move on alone(very nice)
dharma for one(good)
christmas song(nice)
my Sunday feeling-remix(good)
some day the sun won't shine on you(good)
one for john gee(cool jazz tune)
beggars farm(cool)
it's breaking me up(cool)
song for jeffrey(good) ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Dr. Occulator
Date Posted: June 07 2006 at 15:41
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IMO there are only two bad Tull albums: Passion Play and Underwraps. The rest are as consistantly good as any other 70's prog band and they've been able to maintain a high standard in albums to the present day. I dare say Ian Anderson has written about more diverse themes than any other prog lyricist I can think of. ------------- My Doc Told Me I Have Doggie Head. |
Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: June 07 2006 at 15:53
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^ What's so bad with Passion Play? It's better than TAAB, IMO, and easily my favorite Tull release.
------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! |
Posted By: Dr. Occulator
Date Posted: June 07 2006 at 17:57
Respect your opinion but I find TAAB more focused and realized as a continuous stream of thought process than Passion Play. I think the melodies are stronger in TAAB and I'm afraid I find the nursury rhyme story about the Hare & the Spectacles a poor diversion and frankly boring. I don't know what Ian was trying to achieve, humor (I don't find it funny), a deep message (the dialogue is too annoying) creative and out there (well it is that but not entertaining to me). However like I said before, JT are probably in my Top 5 lists of fav bands of all time. ------------- My Doc Told Me I Have Doggie Head. |
Posted By: mrgd
Date Posted: June 07 2006 at 21:18
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What a strange course this thread is taking. Well, GUESTS can do whatever he/she likes to rearrange his or her tracklists. I certainly won't be, esp. when, like others, some of my faves. are being unilaterally discarded-- beauty is in the eye of the beholder and ,imo, GUESTS has mud in his/hers. The analysis of which songs date back to when etc. is quite interesting nonetheless.
Lets not turn this into a APP hate session either-- most of us without mud in our eye know it's brilliant [includig 'The Story of the Hare...']
Here's mud in your eye! ------------- Looking still the same after all these years... mrgd |
Posted By: White Duck
Date Posted: June 08 2006 at 03:15
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I canīt understand people who says Tull isnīt complex.Between TAAB and Stormwatch their music is very difficult to play. Barrie Barlow is "the best drummer England have had" Bonham says.Barre is one of the best guitarist in rock history in my opinion. John Evan and Palmer were great in keyboards and always was a good bass player,especially Glascock. And what about Ian! |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: June 08 2006 at 03:20
While Under Wraps is excrutiatingly bad, Passion play (hardly a fave of mine, but a fave shooting target) is not really all that bad an album.
TOTRNR, TYTD is much worse than APP ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: June 08 2006 at 05:10
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too old to rnr is just as good as minstrel. I choose 1975 and 76 as Tulls weakest moment of the 70s, but they were still decent years. There are 6 or 7 solid songs on Too old. Salamander and Strip cartoon are very good tunes. Under wraps would have been twice as good an album if it had the worst 5 songs deleted from the album lol. The other songs are not too bad and the drums sound pretty real after some sound alterations. Radio free Moscow and Under wraps 2 are very good songs. I altered the drums and Radio free Moscow sounds great below. Probably one of the better rock songs from 1984
http://raylomus.com/Under_Wraps1984/RADIOFREEMOSCOWfullversion.mp3 - http://raylomus.com/Under_Wraps1984/RADIOFREEMOSCOWfullversion.mp3
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