How prog are Boston?
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: General Music Discussions
Forum Description: Discuss and create polls about all types of music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=25188
Printed Date: July 13 2025 at 09:48
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Topic: How prog are Boston?
Posted By: YYZed
Subject: How prog are Boston?
Date Posted: June 23 2006 at 18:26
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A friend of mine recently mentioned Boston along with the names Yes and Pink Floyd. I was a little bit confused, so I went back and listened to their debut and came to believe there is some prog influence there, but it was a little absured to mention them with Yes and Floyd... Anyways, what do you all think? ------------- 
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Replies:
Posted By: lightbulb_son
Date Posted: June 23 2006 at 18:27
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slight prog influence, but do not put them in a group with Yes and Pink Floyd.
The experimentations with guitar effects is slightly prog, but other than that i don't see much. plain old rock n roll if you ask me. ------------- When the world is sick Can't no one be well But I dreamt we were all beautiful and strong 
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Posted By: dagrush
Date Posted: June 23 2006 at 18:40
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Oh yeah, they're right up there with all of the prog greats. Asia, Rabin-Yes, Styx... (Option #3) ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/omgwtfdagrush/"> 
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Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: June 23 2006 at 18:44
| Longtime/Foreplay is probably their proggiest song. |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: June 23 2006 at 19:00
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Well....they aren't prog enough for this poll to be in Prog Polls. -------------  |
Posted By: moodyxadi
Date Posted: June 23 2006 at 20:03
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Of course non-prog. Styx is the poppiest group that can be "accused" of any prog trace, but even the prog related category is too much for them. Boston is the proto-AOR band. A good first album, average second and the rest is the rest. But I still like their first album. It's more than a feeling... ------------- Bach, Ma, Bros, Déia, Dante. |
Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: June 23 2006 at 20:49
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AOR bollox. Not Prog, and the continued association in some people's
minds is just sad (and points the way to why SB and others are seen as
a actual Prog bands).
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: June 23 2006 at 20:53
| There's nothing more classic AOR than Boston. No offense, but do we really need to be having this conversation? I mean, this band is slam dunk non-prog. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 02:54
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The fact that this poll has been moved is a prove of how prog is Boston.
IMO no relation at all.
Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: coffeeintheface
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 03:19
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they're still great though
------------- OBQM: www.soundcloud.com/onebigquestionmark (solo project) nQuixote: www.soundcloud.com/n-quixote (ambient + various musical ideas) |
Posted By: bruin69
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 06:20
| I quite like Boston, they had some good pop/rock hits, and there is a slight hint of prog influence, but basically they're AOR, not in itself a bad thing! |
Posted By: Guzzman
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 06:29
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C'mon, they do have some (admittedly slight) prog influences. Still there is no questioning Boston being in a totally different league than Yes or PF. ------------- "We've got to get in to get out" |
Posted By: Paradox
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 07:34
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I think they're just a standard rock & roll band as many others here have said. They're great though! ------------- 
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 09:23
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hhmmm seeing how this poll is in the NON-Prog music area hahah. Great music... just not prog. As far as influences... lots of groups were influenced by prog but weren't prog... best example...Led Zeppelin. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Arsillus
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 10:26
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They're a bit proggy, but not much. But that's okay because Boston is cool.
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 13:47
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Just a precision, AOR should not be a term that scares us too much, technically Progressive Rock is an AOR genre.
AOR means ALBUM ORIENTED ROCK or ALBUM ORIENTED RADIO, this definition was created when the FM radios started to play music without commercials in the late 60's and early 70's.
This stations could play full albums from bands that based their music in the rellease of complete LPs as an integral work instead of hit singles in 45 RPM format as it was used in AM stations, thanks to this new format of Radio Broadcasting, Prog bands were able to have airplay in FM stations, because as anybody should know, Prog bands rarely released hit singles being that their vehicle of expression are full albums, and even more when Conceptual albums are so common.
After Prog had their first crisis at the end of the 70's, some bands specially froim USA kept releasing non Prog music but still based in albums that had a predominant pérsonality as a whole. This bands were more conservative but IMO are far more impotant for music than those one hit wonders that released a famous song and then vanished (For example Kyrie Eleison by Mister Mr).
Later the term was changed by some people to ADULT oriented Rock, but this term is inaccurate and doesn't adjust to reality as a matter of facts it's been abused and some good Neo Prog or USA Prog bands have been accused of being AOR in the same vein as Boston, Journey or thoise weak Glam Metal bands of the 80's.
This doesn't mean I believe Boston is Prog or even related,. but there's good and bad AOR as there are good and bad bands in almost every genre.
Just a precision.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: Mikerinos
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 16:35
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They aren't progressive, but I really like their debut (I have no interest in their latter albums, though).
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Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 21:13
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What scares me is how many people here appreciate Boston, while at the
same time deriding what's in the charts. Hipocrisy, is what they used
to call it, I believe.
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Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 21:19
Whats in the charts? Britney Spears, Madonna, Hip Hop, Rap, Eminem etc
I don´t think you can compare Boston to that lot.
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Teaflax wrote:Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 24 2006 at 23:02
Hey Ryche, don't mention Rap or Eminem because you will be accused of being narrow minded and probably will receive a lecture about the trascendental role of Eminem in development of modern culture, something that may be true or not, even when I don't know or care about.
But don't you dare to say you don't hate Boston, because you will be called an ignorant redneck who likes to eat pork burgers.
In my case I never cared for Boston either, all my friends bought their debut album and I never had a cassette copy of them because sounded bland for my taste, but still believe that there are some good melodies and songs in AOR bands and even like some STYX tracks.
That's how things work for some people, you are not allowed to make generalizations about the music they like, but they have the God given right to make generalizations about the music you don't hate.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: June 25 2006 at 03:31
Aiming for the lowest common denominator with cadence-based repetitive, short and simple melody lines over regular harmonies is the name of the game. You can like one practitioner of the pandering arts and not the other - that is entirely your prerogative. But slamming one while praising the other is an entirely different issue. -------------
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Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: June 25 2006 at 09:25
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Yes there is a big difference between a Britney or Madonna song and a Boston song.
Listen to Papa don´t preach by Madonna, then listen to Longtime/ Foreplay by Boston.
If you can´t hear the difference then you can´t be listening that hard.
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Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: June 25 2006 at 13:05
| To be honest, I've only ever heard one Boston song- 'Foreplay'- that even came close to prog; I'd have said it would have been pushing it to say they had 'some prog influence'... Nonetheless I love their debut. I'm a fairly recent (over the past year or two) convert to the world of AOR but that was one of the first albums of the genre I heard many years ago. The other album I heard of theirs, 'Don't Look Back', was pretty weak I felt- it was a replica of the debut and far inferior, imo. |
Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: June 25 2006 at 13:54
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^^^^
Yes, the debut was great, so what if it isn´t prog. I agree Don´t look Back was really weak, then things improved on Third Stage.
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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: June 25 2006 at 14:05
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They were talented musicians, but if you look at the compositions, they really aren't as strong as they may appear on the surface. They are, however, darn infectious. I used to love the debut, and "Don't Look Back." I don't own copies anymore, but I will find myself singing along when I hear any of the songs. I guess now, I would call them a guilty pleasure. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: June 25 2006 at 17:42
Papa Don't Preach and More Than a Feeling aren't worlds apart on a level of pure songwriting. They are certainly closer to each other than they are to even a selection of more easily approached tracks from Prog greats like Roundabout, Fallen Angel, The Boys in the Band, I Know What I Like etc. -------------
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: June 25 2006 at 18:06
SB are an actual Prog band. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 25 2006 at 18:26
I Know What I Like ... yes, a truly progressive song indeed.  ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to: 
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Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: June 25 2006 at 19:18
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: June 25 2006 at 19:24
Pork ain't beef? Yeah I new that, can't rember claiming otherwise.  But..AOR isn't Prog. Spock's Beard on the other hand, are. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: June 25 2006 at 22:50
Thats exactly what you said about Kansas. Sadly you don´t want to accept that both these bands have been accepted into the archives (see the genres on the front page)
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Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 07:25
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^Exactly. And I stand by that, especially since I've proven it time and again without any kind of refutation.
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 08:06
You're pretty proud of that, aren't you? No refutation = approval. Simple rules for simple minds ... ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 08:45
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Mike, you do know that peppering lame insults with smileys don't make them any more clever, right? Until you show yourself to have the capacity to discuss things on a level somewhat above incessant repetition of points entirely irrelevant to the actual matter at hand, I don't really think you should be throwing rocks in that there big ol' glass house, m'kay? -------------
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 10:10
^ you accusing me of insults AND then talking about glass houses ... no comment. BTW: I was actually serious - your way of thinking is kind of simplistic, deducing from a lack of feedback that there IS none. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 11:15
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There is absolutely no lack of feedback - witness the TFK thread -
there's just none that even gets close to adressing the issue. If you
mean that there's a serious lack of constructive and well-reasoned
feedback based on an understanding of what it is I am saying, that much
is true. Interestingly, a lot of the "arguments" that are supposed to be refuting my point only strengthen it, including the ones about no one knowing what Prog really is any more, and not least the one that I think you wrote about elitism, effectively branding TFK and SB as "populist Prog" - I really couldn't have said it better myself. -------------
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 11:24
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I don't care what 5 out of 100 prog experts say ... my own opinion is confirmed by the majority, and that settles the matter for me. BTW: You keep ignoring the one point in my posts which refutes you: I accept your claim that SB/TFK have a mainstream/AOR influence. But: that was never the issue. The question is: Does that have a serious impact on their prog status? I say no, and you can't refute that ... it's a subjective decision. Now: Of course someone who likes Yes and Genesis will not automatically like SB/TFK, that is obvious. But there is a good chance that he will like them, if he doesn't mind the AOR influences. And THAT is backed by the average ratings and reviews that these bands get here. Occasionally someone complains about the vocals, but most people don't have a problem with it. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 11:35
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 11:49
You're a hopeless case. 
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 13:26
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Ah, yes. I love music that isn't dumbed-down. Just the right kind of hopeless, if you ask me.
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 13:55
Teaflax wrote:
Are you sure?
In the Negative Prog thread about Kansas you were refuted not only by me, but also by:
1.- Masque
2.- Micky
3.- Ghost Rider
4.- Prog Chick
5.- RycheMan
And what was your reaction? After a lot of contradictions like admitting they made good music but still were crap for you and mumbling incoherences about pork burgers (Seems you have an obsession with pork
 ) YOU LEFT THE THREAD.Now, if you don't want to believe me, please check: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=23922&KW=Pork+Burger&PN=4 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=23922&KW=Pork+Burger&PN=4
Now you will say yes I can't talk with people that like AOR or you will bring Rap as an issue (a genre about I know almost anything or care), but you were refuted with solid arguments, your answer to arguments was simple as always, kick the chess board and run away in the middle of the night.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 14:22
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Ivan, I've promised to ignore you, except that that's really difficult to do when you lie unabashedly like that. No one has refuted the elements of AOR in Kansas in any way whatsoever. They've either said they can't hear it, that they don't care/it doesn't matter or just that I'm "wrong" (which may be a textbook definition of a refutation, but it's really not worth much when it is not backed up by a shred of fact). Hardly solid arguments, even using the most generous definitions of both words. Let me pull out two facts, then. You yourself wrote: "If you say rednecks because they add country music influence, you're right" and "They add Hard Rock? Yes, that's also truth". That you noted that they did the latter to not be considered sissy is not only a hoot and a half, but another feather in my cap, because Prog is never ever about being a posturing Rawk n Roll tough guy. Therefore, no one has refuted my conclusions nor my methodology; in fact, quite a few people have confirmed it, while supposedly arguing against me. In fact that list is becoming about as long as your list of supposed refuters. So, I beg you, Ivan, if you'll just do me the small courtesy of not lying, I will do my best to going back to ignoring you. -------------
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Posted By: Phil
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 14:26
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I saw "Boston" and my first thought was "AOR" and lookey here, there's an argument (sorry discussion) on that very point!!! Think I'll stand back..
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 14:27
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This isnt an argument or a discussion. Its another peeing contest and it is getting really boring.  |
Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 15:31
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I'm sorry, Tony, but I cannot let lies stand undisputed. I don't mind
people calling me names or complaining about my attitude - that's fine. But when you lie about me, you've crossed a line.
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 16:04
This thread had deteriorated long before anyone disputed who said what about who and why.... I dont like to see the word "lie" in a discussion. There may be misinterpretations,exaggerations,mistaken impressions or even mischievous disinformation,but no one is deliberately and maliciously lying surely?  |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 16:21
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I don't see what the problem is anyway ... the poll clearly shows that nobody thinks that Boston is a prog band. What do you mean by "lies", Teaflax? Most people are only complaining about your unfriendly stance, your frequently sarcastic and borderline insulting comments. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 16:58
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I get unfriendly when people mischaracterize what I have written - I think that's only fair. Of course, it's hard for me to judge whether the misrepresentation of events is deliberate or due to a genuine inability to follow my fairly simple and obvious points. So, if it's not a lie...well, you do the math. -------------
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 17:03
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You get unfriendly whenever someone praises a band that you don't like ... don't you?
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 17:14
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^Nope, not at all. Point me to one example of that, please (and do
remember; criticizing something someone else likes doesn't apply). I get upset when people misuse terminology, because I value communication (it is, after all, the very building block of civilization). I get upset when people do not argue the points made, but instead either slam me for utterly irrelevant things or argue an entirely different line of reasoning. I get upset when empirical points are ignored or claimed to be wrong without a hint of a counter-argument. I get upset when certain Prog heads complain about the state of the charts and how most mainstream music is all crap (and how Prog is sooo much better) and then praise bands that are in many, quite obvious incredibly similar to the artists they deride. That's all. -------------
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 17:17
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The better part of your posts contains some clever arguments and one or two hurtful little comments. Go to the notorious threads (including this one) and read your initial posts where you first say something about the artist in question. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 17:36
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This is my initial post:
"AOR bollox. Not Prog, and the continued association in some people's minds is just sad (and points the way to why SB and others are seen as a actual Prog bands)." What hurtful little comment is in there? It's directed first at the band, who I think is almost unspeakably awful, and then I draw the not entirely far-fetched conclusion that their wide acceptance here explains - at least in part - why AOR/Soft Rock is rarely remarked upon as being a stand-out part of a Prog-related band's compositional style. Where is the insult? -------------
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 17:39
Indeed there is - but it kinda depends on the boundaries you set. In this case, "Papa Don't Preach" does not begin with a rather tasty organ intro that builds up into swathes of rich and multilayered guitar... oh yes, I'm talking about arrangement. But the intro grows from a little germ of an idea - it develops. And that's the main difference between the two songs under scrutiny here - apart from the fact that Foreplay/Long Time is a pair of songs that meld together - the one growing out of the other, to extend the metaphor... It's a cannily written song - but, I concede, a song, nonetheless.
That would rule out most of Rockdom. To use those broad brushstrokes, many, many songs by Genesis, Yes and Gentle Giant are out. You must be a huge fan of Meshuggah, Tangerine Dream and Can  ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 17:43
1. "AOR bollox". 'nuff said. 2. Connecting Boston and SB is ridiculous. You may do it, but in doing so you insult SB fans. Remember: It's undisputed that SB have AOR influences. But that doesn't make them an AOR band. It doesn't mean that they're similar to Boston. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 17:44
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Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 17:55
If I say I hate broccoli, do you take horrible offence because you love broccoli? I would really hope not. So, why would you - or anyone that isn't Tom Scholtz et cohortes take umbrage at me describing what I feel them to be? Please explain that to me in some terms other than "because I say so".
And, pray tell, why is it an insult? At most, it could be one if you happen to think that Boston suck and you love SB - even then you'd have to be incredibly thin-skinned to take it as a personal insult rather than just a fallacy. In the latter case, you would have to argue why what I have identified numerous times as clear US Radio Rock influences in Spock's Beard's music isn't that kind of influence, but rather somethign else (moot in your case, since you've admitted to it being a notable component of their sound). The fact that people do get insulted could of course be taken as me having hit a nerve. That certainly makes more sense than getting all huffy because some Swedish asshole with too much time on his hands doesn't like the same bands you like. -------------
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 18:19
Tony: This is not a contedst of any kind, I only started to argue with Teaflax because I'm tired of wstching how he enjoys bashing and humilliating people because they like something he doesn't.
You don't believe me? Read what Teaflax said in this last post:
Lie unbashedly????...that's evident, bashing people is his purpose, if we don't agree with him we're lying and for that reason deserve to be bashed, but I propved with a link that he abandoned the Kansas thread when he ran out of arguments, but again he ignores that part, doesn't even mentions that.
Teaflax is not happy when he has made a point (That some times does) but he wants the other person to feel bad, if you like Kansas, Boston, Meatloaf or Spock's Beard you're an ignorant, an hipocrite, but if you dare to don't like anything he likes then you are..... What a coincidence, you're also an ignorant.
Most of us are here for a long time because we enjoy having a good debate but with respect, personally I had heated debates about Religion and Politics with Sean and Trotsky for 5, 6 or even 10 pages, but you couldn't find a single offense or an attempt to make the other person feel uncomfortable.
Some time ago you told mne not to enjoy giving arguments to destroy other person's position, and I undestood it, even when I was giving ARGUMENTS AND FACTS.
Now we are before a person who systematically joins every negative thread and bashes all the persons who dare to disagree with him.
I respect your position as I always did and always will do, but honestly, people wants to feel comfortable and post with confidence among friends.
We come here to relax, not to be afraid of a person going to insult you and enjoy it so much.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 18:27
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*Yawn* You win, Ivan. There is no reason to argue with someone who
doesn't even know what he's arguing about. Please refrain from
commenting on my posts or making statements about my opinions, and I
will give you the same courtesy from now on. Bye now, Ivan. -------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 18:28
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hahahha
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: June 26 2006 at 18:36
| The wall being suitably drenched and bladders emptied,I am finally fed up of sitting here getting splashed.............. |