Is Prog becoming Metal?
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Topic: Is Prog becoming Metal?
Posted By: Peter
Subject: Is Prog becoming Metal?
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 12:02
Before you respond, please take a thorough look around the site. It seems to me that roughly half of the topics are about metal, and at least half of our members are here primarily because of metal, and the way metal has now become "prog." 
If what unites all the diverse music(s) here is the adjective "prog" (or "progressive") in front of (or after) the original category, as in "prog metal," "prog rock," "prog folk," etc, then where are the "prog country," "prog rap," "prog disco/dance" "prog soul" "prog ska," etc, artists? If metal can be so easily added here, why not country? Does the appearance of the vague term "prog" in front of an long-standing category really mean "good," "complex" or "non-commercial?" (If so, clearly define -- not subjectively -- those terms in a musical context, please!
 )I assure you, there is good, more complex, non-commercial country out there, and I am told that intelligent, "above average" rap exists too.
So why is metal apparently favoured as an example of "progressive" music? Twenty years from now, will "prog" basically mean metal, or at least "technically-accomplished metal with keyboards?"
To me, historic "prog" was an uplifting thing of beauty and grandeur. How do lightning-fast songs with vomited vocals about how everything sucks, and which celebrate the artist's disfunctionality and isolation from humanity, square with the (generally) uplifting (or at least very varied in subject and mood) "thrust" of classic progressive rock?
Are smiles, beauty, wonder and reaching out to our fellows in a spirit of unity all totally "uncool" now? Have complaining, blaming and "tearing down" taken the place of building up?
Too bad, I say.  ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Replies:
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 12:11
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I have noticed this trend as well, and been somewhat puzzled. However, as you may have noticed, I don't share your negative attitude towards ALL metal. I still listen to many of the classic Seventies and Eighties bands, who show almost none of the characteristics that you have described in the above messages. OK, you may not like the style, but people like Ronnie James Dio, Rob Halford and Bruce Dickinson CAN definitely sing - nor are their lyrics about how everything sucks. But then, that's a kind of metal that many younger listeners find somehow unfashionable. I, for one, admit to being slightly repulsed by bands showing an overt Satanic or Neo-Pagan bent - not because I'm a devout Christian (I'm more of an agnostic, as a matter of fact), but because in-your-face negativity disturbs me, no matter how good or progressive the music may be (and the political implications are often quite dodgy, to say the least). And then, there is the matter of the vocals... I like singers who can actually sing, even when they have unconventional voices (the prime example of that being Roger Waters), therefore death growls or black metal shrieks are not really my cup of tea. Call me old- fashioned, but that's the way it is. However, as I said before, I think we should avoiding lumping all metal in the same box, even if we don't like it particularly. That said, the fact that a good half of the new additions to this site seem to belong to the Prog-Metal genre gives me pause too. |
Posted By: fungusucantkill
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 12:14
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theres is a fine line between the metal prog lover and the folk/ambient/melodic prog lover
but they eventually drift apart
and metal will be metal
and prog will be prog
-------------  
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Posted By: JayDee
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 12:20
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*Takes a deep breath and dive*
Hello Peter!
If what unites all the diverse music(s) here is the adjective "prog" (or "progressive") in front of (or after) the original category, as in "prog metal," "prog rock," "prog folk," etc, then where are the "prog country," "prog rap," "prog disco/dance" "prog soul" "prog ska," etc, artists? If metal can be so easily added here, why not country? Does the appearance of the vague term "prog" in front of an long-standing category really mean "good," "complex" or "non-commercial?" (If so, clearly define -- not subjectively -- those terms in a musical context, please!
)I still have to hear a prog ska, prog country etc. music... But if there is... Im very interested to hear that...
I assure you, there is good, more complex, non-commercial country out there, and I am told that intelligent, "above average" rap exists too.
So why is metal apparently favoured as an example of "progressive" music? Twenty years from now, will "prog" basically mean metal, or at least "technically-accomplished metal with keyboards?" Uhm... no.... prog wont mean just metal...
To me, historic "prog" was an uplifting thing of beauty and grandeur. How do lightning-fast songs with vomited
 vocals about how everything sucks, and which celebrate the artist's disfunctionality and isolation from humanity, square with the (generally) uplifting (or at least very varied in subject and mood) "thrust" of classic progressive rock? ... a matter of taste... some classic progressive rock also had its share of deppressing, negative lyrics... and not all prog metal is negative...Are smiles, beauty, wonder and reaching out to our fellows in a spirit of unity all totally "uncool" now? No, still very cool! Have complaining, blaming and "tearing down" taken the place of building up? Of course not..
please dont hate me...
 I also listen to Yes, Genesis, Camel, Rush, Jethro Tull, King Crimson, Return To Forever etc.. etc...------------- 
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Posted By: Lex C
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 12:22
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Prog=Progressive Prog has evolved over time so yes Prog is becoming metal, but the old ways arent dying out, they are just less popular. As Far as Prog metal concept albums. I dont think you could be more wrong. A majority of GOOD prog metal (Between the Buried and me...I dont know how they got onto this site) Deals with more philosophical Ideas. Some just tell random made up stories based on some truth My Arms Your Hearse or Remedy Lane. Right now the future of Prog is in metal, but I do not see the past being forgotten, but things have to change to survive, you said that prog is what unites all the bands on this site. While Prog has never been mainstream, it has always surfaced near the top and lurks below what is mainstreem. Right now many people are listening to metal/hardcore/alternative Prog has had to evolve with it. I hope this makes sense I ramble alot and lose my train of thought |
Posted By: Masque
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 12:22
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I think the term metal prog should be used rather than prog metal ...understand what I`m saying ? with metal metal always comes first no matter what style it is in and should be named that way
------------- |
Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 12:32
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I have a simple explanation why Prog Metal exists in considerably bigger amounts than Prog Country and Prog Rap Peter. It has really been said a hundred of times, but Metal has come a long way evolving from rock'n'roll music. What was considered Metal 35 years ago is now Hard Rock and to some not even all that hard anymore. Who knows, perhaps after decades from now people will change their perception as well.
Now that we have remembered that Metal came out of Rock, before it started to sound significantly different, let's remember what Prog is. Is it just a specific sound, meaning that only things deserving of the 'Prog' stamp are unimaginiative, derivative acts that do not create anything, but only reaarange and enhance the music that was original decades ago? Or is it a musical direction, that really does progress and, whilst not being completely restricted to a specific sound, has certain characteristics and traits, by which an open-minded listener will be able to tell Prog from non-Prog any time of day?
We all know Country and Rap haven't been influenced by rock'n'roll nearly as much as Metal has. It all makes sense now that it is the most wide and diverse scene in Prog today, if you think about it.
Now, going into the argument of beauty in Metal. I will be blunt and frank here, Metal is a dark, often depressing genre of music, making its bleak soundscapes unbearable for a fan of lighter, happier musicks. However, to say that there is no beauty in Metal, but only technique and anger, would be to misunderstand the whole genre. Much like the 70's greats, the modern Metal bands, and I do mean the promising and original ones, know how to write beautiful, majestic and eerie compositions.
Since it is always preferrable to listen to more music than to argue about it with little perception, I suggest you check this Agalloch sample Peter, of a band that is considered Prog-Metal: http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_BAND.asp?band_id=1933 - http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_BAND.asp?band_id=1933
And it's just one fish in the ocean of fascinating Prog-Metal out there!
-- Ivan ------------- sig |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 12:36
Actually, GR, I do enjoy some metal, at some times (& metal was what I generally listened to before getting heavily into prog as a young teen).
 My post and question is not so much "anti" metal, as it is pondering the future of "prog," and the evolution (devolution?) of the term "prog."
Will this site basically be a metal fan's site in the future, with classic prog and its beauty (and often uplifting, spiritual lyrics) relegated to some dusty corner frequented by a few "naive" old hippies, who "foolishly" believed in all that uncool, pie-in-the-sky, peace and love stuff?
De we modern humans increasingly prefer to wallow in our angst, and musically reinforce all our darkest moods and tendencies? Will "prog" be the soundtrack with which we go to war, and blow away the little (human) blobs of green light on the armored vehicle's video screen? Is hostility and despair the new peace and love?
Whoops -- ^ there I go generalizing again!
(I know it's not ALL about that, and that you're not all filled with pubescent self-loathing and aggression out there in metal land. ) But is prog, for all intents and purposes, as a living art form (assuming it even exists) quickly morphing into metal? (For better or worse -- all of those pesky & subjective "value" judgements aside.) What is "prog?" now, in the 21st Century, and where is it going ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Ghost Rider wrote:Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 12:44
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Well, metal got me into prog.. That said I rarely listen to any metal these days.
I've nothing against prog metal. I just dont like it. As a consequence I dont listen to it, and rarely discuss it here. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Orion-GER
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 12:45
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Well, the genre Progressive Metal has a very long history, and often, the borders are not really clear to see: Is TOOL Progressive Metal oder Progressive Rock? What's with MIND'S EYE, on the other hand? I can understand, if some are confused, because the more extreme Metal bands are listed here, only because they are progressive. That's in nearly all cases progressive Death Metal, but that's another story.
And talking about Heavy Metal in general, well, there are dozens of categories and subgenres, hell, for everyone and every motion there is a style, literally
 . Anyway, if you ask me, the future of Prog lies not in Metal but in the more Indie orientated corner. For me, bands like DREDG, MASTODON, COHEED AND CAMBRIA, TOOL, THE MARS VOLTA, OCEANSIZE, etc. are the future. I mean, yes, there are great newer Progressive Metal combos, but there hasn't been a single band as influential as, let's say, WATCHTOWER, FATES WARNING or DREAM THEATER since a long time, so I'm missing a bit new impulses...
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Posted By: horza
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 12:45
Prog metal is the future 
------------- Originally posted by darkshade: Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot. |
Posted By: Dirk
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 12:46
| I agree that there are a lot of metal threads out there nowadays. I don't think it's a problem though, these threads are extra, they don't come instead of threads about other genres. What does worry me a bit is that at festivals more and more metal is played leaving less room for other bands. |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 12:47
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Isnt your statement a bit exaggerated? Im sure some people feel the same way about...lets say symphonic, and are worried that prog is being held as a synonymous for symphonic... dont sweat it ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 12:50
Thanks for all the calm and thoughtful, non "knee jerk" responses so far!
I know that my first post will be very provocative to many metal fans, but please, sincerely think (and look around here) before responding. My point (or question) is not so much an anti-metal one, about my own musical preferences and preconceptions, and as it is one which ponders the current perception and future of "progressive" music.
 Again, if some metal (and folk, etc) is deemed "progressive," why not some country, rap, etc? Do all of these musical forms, from classic Yes, Genesis and Tull to Tool and "progressive death" really belong together?  ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 12:51
Woo Hoo! ------------- |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 13:07
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I'd say that prog is not becoming metal so much as much metal has
become prog. Looking at this site, it does seem that metal music
has become the dominant prog of these times. I expect this trend
to contnue. As metal is a subgenre of rock it would be remiss to dismiss prog metal. As for prog country, Kansas was inspired by country was it not? I don't think country music by itself, even if it is progressive within that genre would make it acceptable for inclusion, but if it's progressive country-rock fusion then sure. As for the other choices, like prog disco, there's plenty of prog rock out there which has disco elements. ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 13:19
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There are examples of these "genres", Peter. For example:
Progressive Country: A Ghost Is Born - Wilco
Progressive Hip-Hop: Endtroducing... - DJ Shadow, Absence - Dalek, etc.
It's just that Country and Hip-Hop are genres that most Prog fans "love to hate", whereas Metal, while hated, is also appreciated worldwide. That explains Prog's influence on Prog-Metal musicians.
-- Ivan ------------- sig |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 13:20
If you are saying that Prog Rock is basically a style that evolved for about 5 or 6 years in the 1970s and that using the adjective "prog" before a musical genre does not make it similar in any way to what "we" accept as "Prog Rock" then I wholeheartedly agree. One comparison one could make is with Sports.If one logged onto a general "Sports" website one could confidently expect to see information about "Football" (Soccer) and "NFL" (American Football.) However if one logged onto a Soccer Website one wouldnt expect to find information about NFL just because American Football is an off-shoot of soccer.Same with Cricket and Baseball,Field Hockey and Ice Hockey-so why do we not make this distinction with Prog-Metal? |
Posted By: FishyMonkey
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 13:25
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Honestly, I agree with what Logan said. Prog is still synonymous with Yes, King Crimson, Rush, for most people who care about the genre at all. It's not the prog is simply evolving into a subgenre of metal, it's that metal is becoming more intelligent.
That's not to say that primitive or old-school metal is neccesarily bad. Straight up death metal along the lines of Bloodbath or Nile is never bad. Raw black metal like Burzum has it's moments. But look at the trends of some of these bands. Burzum evolved into a highly atmospheric black metal band employing lots and lots of synth to create a mood of utter solitude. Edge of Sanity, a Dan Swano project, started as straight up death metal and ended with two 40+ minute progressive death metal epics wich are both more progressive than plenty of stuff on this site. Emperor, one of the most pivotal bands in black metal started as raw black metal and evolved into a symphonic extreme metal band with more synth than I thought possible. That route culminated recently with Ihsahn (Emperor's frontman) solo album, The Adversary, which is 100% progressive metal. Diabolical Masquerade, the solo project of Katatonia guitarist Blakkheim. They started as raw black metal and their last album, Death's Design, is one of the most interesting and unique albums I've ever heard. Nile, also. They have started straight up death metal, with some 10 minute epics thrown in, but their main guitarist, Karl Sanders, made a highly original, possibly prog album called Saurian Meditation which is all relaxing Egyptian sounding music. Maybe it is metal artists becoming bored of a primitive sound. I know Darkthrone never changed though, so that's not right. Metal has simply changed drastically from what it was, and I probably wouldn't have loved it in the 80s. Now? There is some quality stuff. That's why you see so much about prog metal. And with that, I challenge you old school prog heads to open your minds a bit to accept the new wave of metal as the prog it is. Metal will keep evolving. Every year a new highly original metal album comes out. Scratch that, MANY original albums come out. That's why there is so much talk of metal in relation to prog. Because metal is right now, the only genre that is evolving constantly in a progressive way. Meet the future. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/FishyMonkey/?chartstyle=artists"> 
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Posted By: AtLossForWords
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 13:25
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I think that this issue is a difficult one to address. On the one hand, the majority of bands featured here are unadultered prog, but on the other hand, there are clearly some additions to all genres that I understand that I would not consider progressive. It's not just metal that is becoming added here when it probably shouldn't, but there are also Art Rock and other genres which contain bands that I personally would not support being here.
I don't think that prog is becoming metal, but that the database is including metal bands that are closely related to prog to give the listener a more comprehensive database regarding prog.
Any great research database has all of the information that can be gathered on the main topic, but it also has other topics that have a direct and important relation to the main topic. -------------  
"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls." |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 13:28
Yes but this database is specific to Prog Rock! We are not "Allmusic" we are very specific... |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 13:31
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Prog Metal might as well be called technical metal with a mellotron here and there. It might be considered progressive from a hard rock/metal standpoint, but I believe it's more or less seperate from regular symphonic/neo/space prog. The same can be said for a lot of RIO bands, but complaints aren't heard for that. I think metal is a scapegoat in a way, but a lot of the bands are distinctly prog. Take Dream Theater (even if you hate them, which a lot of people seem to) they have just nearly as many old school symphonic aspects as metal aspects. "Octavarium" wasn't even a metal song. It's basically 24 minutes of TFK and SB with a bit more technicality and hard edges. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Aaron
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 13:41
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it's true, most prog metal isn't really prog in the classic definition of progressive, but to be fair a lot of bands shouldn't be listed on this site it would be great if prog metal was kicked off this site, then would wouldn't need all those ads that are everywhere
Aaron
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 13:44
I'd love to respond ... but I won't, because you are generalising and bashing Prog Metal in your post, denying any possibility that some of it may be on the same artist level as Prog Rock. If to you all Prog Metal is simply "metal with keyboards", then there is no basis for discussion ... you wouldn't understand any of my arguments. So forgive me if I don't try to explain for the 42nd time why I think that Prog Rock and Prog Metal can get along fine ... instead I'll listen to the new Canvas Solaris album that I bought today ... interesting music BETWEEN Rock and Metal.  ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to: 
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 13:45
Anyone with an IQ higher than their shoe size got an opinion? 
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Posted By: AtLossForWords
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 13:47
What important is that the music is somehow related to prog rock. For example Opeth's relation to Katatonia is important in relations of prog metal. Katatonia had a lot of influence on Opeth's music, a great friendship, and made somewhat progressive music themselves.
-------------
"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls." |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 13:53
I think there's very little to add to such a statement... And I wish that people stopped using the word "gay" as a blanket derogatory term. As to kicking PM off the site, I think the suggestion doesn't even deserve an answer. |
Posted By: MajesterX
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 13:57
Are you implying that metal is a distant from rock as rap is as distant from rock? I think that you are forgetting that Metal is really a sub-genre of Rock. You say "metal has now become prog". No, only Prog metal has become prog!  The reason prog metal is so popular here is the fact that prog metal is new and different, and instead of talking about bands like the Flower Kings and Spock's Beard (both of which I love) who do nothing different than the 70's bands to such an extent that some argue that they are not progressive, why not embrace bands that are innovative and original? There will always be people such as yourself who are "conservative prog fans" who do not "believe" in the new prog bands becoming popular because they are different. no offense, of couse. ------------- 
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Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 13:57
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Prog rock and prog metal are inseperable, as they stand under the ubiquitous umbrella known as 'progressive'. There are many kinds of progressive music (as this site so graciously displays), and prog metal is just one of them. The same ideals that separate prog rock from regular rock are the same that separate prog metal from other metal. If you don't like metal, that's quite fine, you don't have to listen to it. There are still many progressive bands making great music that have nothing at all to do with metal. Try some modern experimental music or post-rock perhaps? ------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 14:11
Don't know, I have VERY big feet. I guess he's blaming the increased bandwidth costs, which must be offset by ads, on the inclusion of prog metal. Can't say I've noticed any specifically "gay" ads. I don't imagine prog metal would inspire gay ads as prog metal tends to be far more dark and depressing than light and gay. ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 14:18
| I do believe Prog is becoming metal, because when prog was originally around it was an agressive, heavy, uncompromising music of elaborate lengths with contrasts between quiet moving pieces and thunderous epic sounds. The vocals weren't always the main focus, and often featured different styles to their singing to represent different styles in the music. This description could mirror either Genesis fronted by Peter Gabriel in the early 70s or just as easily be talking about Opeth today. It's the times that have changed, but the music is relatively the same - just fitting with the surrounding context. |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 14:20
Okay then Mike, all of that and my general dislike of modern metal aside for the moment (as I tried to say in subsequent posts), how about the main question(s):Is "prog" -- in general, or inevitably -- becoming metal?
If "prog metal" and "prog folk" are in, why not put "prog country," "prog rap," etc, here as well?
Where is "prog" going?
And, believe it or not, I'd actually welcome the chance to sample any prog metal that you or others would think I might like. (Too bad we lost the MP3s
 -- a review from a fan is one thing, but actually being able to hear some of the music, before buying it was a very useful, sales-enhancing thing, IMO!) I like some Purple, Heep, Hendrix, Rush, Steve Morse, Jeff Beck (I am thinking of his last couple of releases, in particular) -- all arguably at least "metal-esque" at times. I may not be as close-minded to 'heaviness" in music as you might think! (And please bear in mind that lyrics matter to me a lot -- if they are overwhelmingly negative and bleak, I will not want to listen to the album more than once.) ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 14:23
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great topic Peter.... nothing really to say though.. I
don't think it's prog at all, but that's just my prog-view. Prog
was as much about artistic sensibilities as anything and I don't see
that in prog metal. It's all about technical... besides.. prog
was about expanding the boundries of accepted rock music... if so and
if it has been around for nearly 20 years... the pioneers deserve
credit.. those today.. what is prog about them. Regressive rock..
that's what it is. Guess I did have a bit to say. It's
just not my thing... *micky slips an ELP disk into the CD player and all is good in the world of prog* hmmm....t's like an old argument I used to make. Prog is... prog. What passes for prog today is nothing more than 'progressive' (as an adjective) rock/metal. They are different in my eyes. Prog was a consious movement to bring artistic sensibilites to rock and expand what people considered rock to encompass. Listen to an album like LDF's album as a great example. Those who borrow elements of that movement are 'progressive' rock. Yet are not prog. My two cents as always. so much for having nothing to say I guess... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 14:26
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I must admit I don't see the prog element in some of the "prog metal"
additions to this site (I'll just mention Devin Townsend). A
complicated rhythmic pattern in metal is not enough to make it prog;
there is a lot more that has to be taken into account. The most
important is in my opinion that prog has to do with a certain kind of
sound which I miss in most so-called prog metal.
-------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 14:32
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Peter, have you sampled the song the link to which I posted?
-- Ivan ------------- sig |
Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 14:32
Then what do you consider "prog-metal"? ------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 14:34
Yes -- to give only one example, I quite enjoyed the Godspeed You Black Emperor that I've heard. That seems to be new and truly "progressive" (though arguably Can and others of their ilk really blazed that trail).
I certainly don't write off all new music, and "prog" is only a small part of my overall listening menu.
Every time I touch upon my dislike of metal, and disdain for/inability to relate to its (generally dark) lyrical tendencies, I am assumed by some to be a close-minded, "stuck in the 70s" classic symphonic prog purist -- I am not!
Thanks for acknowledging my "right" not to like (what I've heard of) today's metal, without my therefore being musically timid, or some kind of close-minded "progsnob."  ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 14:37
No -- where is it?------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 14:40
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At the bottom of my first post in this thread, on the first page.
-- Ivan ------------- sig |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 14:41
Ice Age, for example. They have clear prog elements in their music, beside their metal aspect. I really like them (though the singer doesn't convince me). ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 14:47
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As far as I know, I do enjoy metal elements included into prog music. For example, I enjoy very much the hard guitars on some Halloween albums, I really like Sleepytime Gorilla Museum; some traits of it on IQ's early records, etc. I just don't like plain Metal with keyborads exceses and no discursive elements at all. ------------- ¡Beware of the Bee! |
Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 14:57
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Prog is not becoming Metal,
Prog Metal is Prog's little kid brother - noisy, loud, arrogant, outspoken, irascible, bad tempered, bombastic, complicated, intelligent, brilliant.
my..... look how he's grown!!!! -------------  Prog Archives Tour Van 
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Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 15:29
Ivan, I was fine with that (sort of like The Cure -- their dark mood --on steroids) until the "vocals" started -- then I lasted only about ten seconds.
(I just can't relate to guys trying to sound like demons or the cookie monster when they "sing." It sounds contrived, very irritating, and well... just plain silly, to me.)
Sorry -- I tried, but vocally, that was a very poor choice for me.  ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Ed_The_Dead
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 15:31
Beautiful definition! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ed_the_dead/?chartstyle=asimpleblue5"> 
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 15:48
hmmm.... listening to it as well my thoughts..... nice intro.. can dig it........ I hate that modern guitar sound........waiting for these vocals to come in.................. .......... ........... ....... .... .... ... oh god..... not my style at all hahahhah...... lasting longer than Peter it appears.... this vocal section isnt' bad....... the music isn't that bad ........ if they stuck to actually singing this wouldn't be so bad.... going back to my Pulsar album.... not bad Ivan... just not my style... edit - still listening though... it is prog (supposedly) maybe some great musical change will come and we'll have some harpiscord or some jazzy interlude.... YEAH!!!!! ..... a musical change..... heralded by the drums... where is this going...... ..... .... ..... .... ... is that an accoustic... sure is....... hmmm...... guess it pays to have a half-way open mind... not bad Ivan.... if they stuck to singing instead of the funky demented vocals.. I'd probably like it more...plus I have a hang up on the clean clinical guitar sounds..... I'm a child of the era of imperfect studio recordings... it needn't sound like it was recorded in a lab..... ohhh.... another change... like that guitar.... Hey Peter... you gave up on this a bit quickly... it's not classic... but it's not bad..... she's prog.... and not bad.... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 15:51
No, I don't think so. I guess you're not actively monitoring the prog releases of 2006 ... if you did, you'd see that many of them are not even related to metal. Have a look at the list on the front page of my website ... the top 10 albums are 50% metal, 50% rock. However, it is true that prog metal seems to have more fans than prog rock ... or at least metal related topics seem to attract more attention than the rock related ones. But then again you also have to consider that most metal fans also love rock, and many clearly prefer it to metal in combination with prog. I love both Rock and Metal, Non-Progressive or Prog, ... music is the best!
Prog Metal is here because Metal is related to Rock (it's a sub genre). As to why Folk is in ... I guess that's mostly because of a couple of Prog Rock bands which had the folk element. But as far as I know there is no Prog Folk band in the archives which isn't also based on Rock ... The other genres you mentioned (country, rap) are not really related to Rock, and that's where the boundary should be IMO.
Try these for a start (Pain of Salvation): http://www.painofsalvation.com/samples/flesh.mp3 - http://www.painofsalvation.com/samples/flesh.mp3 http://www.painofsalvation.com/samples/morning.mp3 - http://www.painofsalvation.com/samples/morning.mp3 And then these (Heaven's Cry): http://www.dvsrecords.com/samples/HeavensCry_Track4.mp3 - http://www.dvsrecords.com/samples/HeavensCry_Track4.mp3 http://www.dvsrecords.com/samples/HeavensCry_Track6.mp3 - http://www.dvsrecords.com/samples/HeavensCry_Track6.mp3 Then some by a supposedly heavy band: http://www.symphonyx.com/media/communion_and_the_oracle.mp3 - http://www.symphonyx.com/media/communion_and_the_oracle.mp3 http://www.symphonyx.com/media/the_accolade.mp3 - http://www.symphonyx.com/media/the_accolade.mp3 Let me know if you want more! ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: AtLossForWords
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 15:54
Those are some good reccomendations Mike. Even the Symphony X pieces you chose, I would consider good.  -------------
"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls." |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 15:58
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^ Thanks ... I chose them with great care! Here's another great one: http://www.hevydevy.com/audio/mp3/dtb_gaia.mp3 - http://www.hevydevy.com/audio/mp3/dtb_gaia.mp3 ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: AtLossForWords
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 16:00
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"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls." |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 16:05
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Here's another one of Devin's masterpieces ... from one Canadian (Devin) to the other (Peter): http://www.hevydevy.com/audio/mp3/dt_canada.mp3 - http://www.hevydevy.com/audio/mp3/dt_canada.mp3 ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 16:22
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There is plenty of good new prog that is more or less based on the unsurpassed Seventies symphonic rock scene (Nemo, Maldoror, Senogul, Little Tragedies, Nexus, Interpose) but most of the attention is going to prog metal so it is becoming overlooked by many visitors, fortunately there is a small number of fanatic progheads like Micky, Avestin, Andrea C and Andrew who keep on searching for good new prog, hail to those progheads because otherwise I was writing my reviews for aliens .. !
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 16:26
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Pain of Salvation is an anomaly, or is so from my perspective. If there is any prog metal band that simply isn't "metal with keyboards," it's PoS. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: AtLossForWords
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 16:36
ahem
There is a distinct difference between progressive metal and metal with keyboards. I suggest you listen to Children of Bodom and find out what metal with keyboards sounds like. -------------
"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls." |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 16:48
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Thanks a lot, all, and especially Mike!
I'll get back to you....
No growls in there, right Mike? ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: gimsom
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 16:50
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I have to agree with you in many points. I really don't personally have
anything against metal. Bands like Iron Maiden are't really that
terrible after you listen them in certain way (and don't take them too
seriously). Many bands today seem to adore death, pain and other misery. That is so pathetic. Those people have never been involved things they make music about, exept TV or computer. People who make that lousy music have lived their whole life in (overly) welfare countries. So have I lived in this exessive welfare but I luckily managed to keep myself somewhat straight. Band from developing countries would never do music like that since it's actually part of their life. Those people seem to have forgotten all the realities of this world and that annoys me most. Those death/black metal bands seem to most affect young listeners who still are searching for their taste (I listened to crap music too about 5 years ago, it wasn't that bad but not far better). Things like total lack of clean vocals means ofcourse lack of skill, but mainly they just try to make people shocked that they're different or scary, although it's totally the opposite. Propably they grow up like I did. No one can argue that prog metal is propably now the most visible part of prog, especially amongst younger listeners. Metal (and prog metal) are now propably at the peek of their popularity and hopefully the trend soon goes to more balanced situation. Metal is no doubt here to stay (just as is prog) and I don't really mind. Remember that there is still beauty in this world .I enjoyed your post, thanks and take care. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 16:56
Thanks! Indeed there is no growling in any of those songs ... but I didn't have that in mind when I was compiling the list. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Harry Hood
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 17:08
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Wilco comes to mind when I think of progressive country.
There are probably a few others, but I haven't heard them.
Not enough to justify a spot in progarchives, not nearly as much as progmetal. ------------- 
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 17:11
A common satire of prog metal is condemning it to being just metal with keyboards. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 17:18
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^ it's like saying that Prog Rock is just Rock with mellotron.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: lor68
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 17:32
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I SHARE YOUR OPINION, MR RIDEOUT!...But I like to remark that the commercial exigencies of the major labels have forced the progressive music genre in the recent years: that's the reason for which some prog metal bands such as Dream Theater in primis, then the other less successful bands from the commercial point of view - such as for instance Symphony X, Pain of Salvation, Magellan, Mastermind and so on, are the leading or main music stream within the 'prog' genre...unfortunately some other European ensemble - like for example After Crying, Isildurs Bane or Glass Hammer, strictly 'progressive' bands" in the true meaning of this latter term, have no opportunities in the music business (I think also of the failed attempt performed by Echolyn during the early nineties within the Sony Label: "As the world" was the title of the album dated 1995- and that's quite sad after all!! Regardless of the whole new progressive wave genre, talking about bands such as IQ, Pendragon, Jadis and so on... these latter often quite anachronistic, being represented by the clones of the clones- and you know what I mean...). Therefore, by forgetting interesting - sometimes remarkable - bands from South America, like for instance SAGRADO Coraçao Da Terra, which have gone away definitively from the Romantic prog scene in Brasil, probably the only Romantic Prog band which still survives in an intelligent manner is Camel, the music project by Andy LATIMER (in the case such band still exists..). They are able to produce something original inside the light prog scene of UK/USA today; instead another famous English band - Yes - has been quite uneven in their recent production...then there's much confusion in the other experimental, post rock or RIO bands of the world, where you can find a lot of groups trying to establish themselves in the music business today, but very hardly ... I think of the clever group of Don Caballero, now a missing band from the underground!!
As usual we can find a secure refuge in the past...instead the modern scene - regarding prog music generally - is too much 'cloudy' and that's a matter of fact!! ------------- Lethe's keyboardplayer |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 17:35
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^ Have a look at the band list of one of the leading labels in prog - InsideOut. You'll find that about half of those bands play Prog Rock ...
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Orion-GER
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 17:39
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Quote: Those death/black metal bands seem to most affect young
listeners who still are searching for their taste (I listened to crap
music too about 5 years ago, it wasn't that bad but not far better).
Things like total lack of clean vocals means ofcourse lack of skill,
but mainly they just try to make people shocked that they're different
or scary, although it's totally the opposite. Propably they grow up
like I did. Sorry, but that sounds very arrogant to me! BTW: Why should the lack of clean vocals has anything to do with lack of skill!?  Quote: Metal (and prog metal) are now propably at the peek of their popularity and hopefully the trend soon goes to more balanced situation. Heavy Metal had its peek in the eighties of course, Progressive Metal at the beginning of the nineties, when the forefathers QUEENSRYCHE, FATES WARNING and DREAM THEATER released some very successful singles and sold a lot of records.  |
Posted By: Ed_The_Dead
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 17:45
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HM... so this place has become the official "heal Peter prog metal clinic"...
How bout some Fates Warning for download?
There isn't any, sadly... but why not stream it?
http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_BAND.asp?band_id=670 - http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_BAND.asp?band_id=670
A pleasant shade of grey  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ed_the_dead/?chartstyle=asimpleblue5">
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Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 17:51
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Like I've been saying; Metal - and primarily the Rock 'n' Roll aspect
thereof - is not seen as a diluting element. An accepted Prog Metal band
can be 80% Metal and 20% Prog, but any other genre has to have at least
60% Prog in it for people to even consider calling it Prog. I blame Spock's Beard for ushering in AOR/US Radio Rock as a 100% accepted not-worth-mentioning aspect of a Prog band, which then isn't too far removed from Metal's more mainstream side. -------------  
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Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 17:51
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Prog-Country and Prog-Rap aren't being added to the site because there is a very distinct difference between those styles and Rock; whereas metal is more of an offshoot or natural progression of Rock N Roll music.
In years prog won't be known purely for the prog-metal bands. Metal is a very popular genre now so of course many of bands are taking this template and pushing its limits and thus deserve inclusion here. But there are plenty of bands making music now that has nothing to do with metal like Mars Volta and Dredg. There's plenty of retro symphonic bands, lots of new interesting RIO coming out, many things that have nothing to do with metal. You just notice the prog-metal more because it was absent from every other decade basically. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 17:54
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Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 18:07
I tend to agree with this point though; it seems that if a metal band has the slightest progressive tendency it gets added here. While there are clearly more progressive non-metal bands which are still fighting their way onto the archives. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 18:14
Arguably, very few of the original cast of Prog Rock played around with Blues/Rock harmonies and structures, and when they did it was usually an anomaly. So, anything called "progressive" that includes such is going to be a step back to a more common and accepted style of music. And to an extent that's fine; constant innovation isn't necessarily the be-all and end-all of music, but it does need to be acknowledged as being a very real phenomenon, instead of being swept under the carpet. I believe that without that behavior, the gap between Prog and PM would be seen as being far, far wider than it is today. As it is now, when the significant mainstream aspects of certain Prog bands are pointed out, it awakens great ire, which tends to end in "it doesn matter" or "everyone knows that", neither of which I agree with. Prog had a definite agenda back when it was born, and "playing Rawk" wasn't on there. -------------
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 18:42
Now that sounds like you never even looked at the Prog Metal additions chart. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 18:44
I will not go there ... it's no good. But I find it interesting how you're trying to turn this thread into a SB/AOR discussion. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Barla
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 18:47
| Classic Prog will always be more popular than Prog Metal, because the origin of Prog is there. |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 18:50
Actually Mike I look at it quite frequently, but I see the point you are making so let me rephrase myself: It seems that a metal band needs to be less progressive than a rock band needs to be to gain admission. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 18:53
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^ Tell me: which bands that were accepted (in the chart) do you think are not prog enough, and which Rock bands do you think are progressive enough but aren't accepted here? Maybe that will help me understand your point.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 19:05
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Prog Metal I feel shouldn't be included: Blind Gaurdian, Nevermore, Michael Romeo. And not on the chart that have never struck me as prog: Kamelot, Pagan's Mind, and Rhapsody
Bands I feel should be added: Blue Oyster Cult, Coheed & Cambria, and The Flaming Lips. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 19:23
I disagree. That's giving it far too much credit. I think most of prog-metal is more the lazy brother that never moves out of his parents house. Metals origins are as old as progrock. The Dream Theater sound is all about comformity and following a recipies with no real space for genuine progression. When a metal band in that vein is considered progressive, its always because they've been stealing some old tricks from Yes or Rush etc... (some would say from Spocks Beard or Flower Kings, but they are copycats themselves) .Thats regressive. Music that really pushes boundries and doesn't stick to any given rules, can't fit in a subgenre that is so specialized as prog-metal. Modern progressive groups like Secret Chiefs 3 with their orchestral soundtracks, folk and ethnic/Indian percussion and melodies, cabaret music, avant-garde experiments, electronica and extreme-metal is also called prog-metal here. Very misleading. New prog doesn't need to be hard dark or aggressive. Check out the rising american folk-prog scene with Faun Fables, Sufjan Stevens (when will he be added?) And undoubtly Stereolab, Tortoise and Radiohead are doing more daring original stuff, than metal with keyboard bands like Symphony X, Psychotic Waltz or Kamelot. I grew up with complex thrash and death-metal as a teenager, and still love plenty of bands in that genre a lot. But I have no urge to try and get them incuded in the archives. Simply because they don't belong here. BTW:Still can't believe the childish, pompous goth of Nightwish and Lacrimosa are here, and not progfolk pioneers Incredible String Band. The focus must clearly be wrong. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 19:26
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^ I believe that the term "sourpuss" might apply here. BTW: Explain to me how Psychotic Waltz can be called "metal with keyboards"? ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 19:32
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 19:37
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Here's another question:
Do you think this would even be an issue if the majority of prog metal was inspiring or lush and joyous instead of depressing and/or dark?
I've certainly not been expose to as many prog metal bands as Jody, Mike or Ivan, but I know enough to say that maybe Symphony X and DT are the only bands I've heard that don't bring me down, even though sometimes their music may be depressing. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: goose
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 19:46
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To reply to a number of posts incoherently at the same time and make a number of useless points, here I am:
Firstly, I think that the number of new members who are exclusively into prog metal is a Good Thing for progressive rock. Why? Well, see how many new members are still both exclusively into prog metal and posting here six months after they join. I admit that I myself found my way here through searching for a Dream Theater album, and now I'm interested in only a handful of the prog metal listed here (although I've also discovered some metal bands which I find much more progressive {using the word as an adjective there} than what's often considered prog metal..!) and a wide array of progressive rock, encompassing RIO, Zeuhl and much more, as well as other musicians, particularly on the jazz side. I do think that metal can be darkly beautiful, even as an extension of Van der Graaf Generator or some of King Crimson's late '70s stuff (by "extension" I don't mean "better", simply darker). That said, I do think that very little metal bears anything like the sort of richness that I associate with earlier prog bands. Perhaps prog metal, if a band's intending to be pigeonholed as such, is more limited than an umbrella term of progressive rock, but I certainly think there are progressive (adjective, again) bands that have very strong connections to metal that are incredibly diverse: from Kayo Dot's mournful trombone solos to Fantomas' spastic stop-start attack to Behold... the Arctopus' neverending flurry of unharmonic notes to Isis' droning and crushing repetition. And yes, these are all negative sounding words, but I don't think it follows that this is one-dimensional music. I've forgotten where I was going with this. It'll have to stay as a collection brief insights into the odd processes that are my present thoughts. |
Posted By: Mikerinos
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 19:55
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It wouldn't be a bad idea to have a separate forum for Progressive Rock and Prog Metal. Although I like Prog Metal (although not as much as classic Symphonic), even I get sick of the 50 DT and Tool threads a day. By forum, I mean like the "Prog Music Lounge" we're in now, only for Prog Metal. ------------- 
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 20:11
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The problem IMHO is not that Prog Metal is taking Prog, that's a wrong perception, the problem is that Prog Archives is going to far including a goods percentage of bands that are simply metal into Prog Metal.
I always thought that a Prog sub-genre was mainly Prog Rock with another influence, if it's classical, we consider it Symphonic (in most cases) if it's folk we call it Prog Folk, etc. But seems in Prog Metal doesn't work like this.
There are some 99% Metal bands with a couple of keyboard solos, then inmediately are added to Prog Metal, in this case the Metal component is far more important for some members than the Progressive Rock element.
Take Jethro Tull in Folk Prog, yes, there are some folk leanings, but the rock and even Symphonic components are at least as important, Renaissance is added oin Folk (I believe) but could also be added in Symphonic, on the other hand in the case of some Death Metal bands the Prog compoinent is so small that only the people who add the are aware of it.
The most incredible thing is that this Prog Metal bands are simultaneously part of a sub-genre in Prog sites and a Metal sub-genre in metal sites, to the point that both genres are loosing their personality.
In the case of Symphonic our team before changing or adding a band post each and every possible change to recieve feedback from the other Collaborators, in some cases we have given a step back (Neal Morse and Manticore Sweden) in others we insisted in the changes.
In some cases our decisions are questioned or polls started , but this doesn't happen in Prog Metal, bands are added without asking anybody.
It's also true that our system won't work in Prog Metal because most progheads don't know lets say 50 or 60% of the Prog Metal bands (A good part don't care at all) and if we listen them we're unable to understand it or even worst we won't pay a dime for one of their albums.
We have some Viking Metal bands or Death Metal bands that are just that and considered Viking or Death by Metal sites
I don't ask control for the Metal Team because I chated with most of the Prog Metal team members or read their posts and I'm certain they are honest people making what they really believe in.
I don't have absolutely any reason not to trust in their work, but I would ask them for a bit more of discression, if they have a doubt, don't add the band, if just one member of the team doesn't believe the band should be added, take some time and place it in the waiting list and consult the Collaborators, maybe some of us has listened them.
IMHO we have too many pseudo Prog Metal bands already and this site is loosing identity, if things follow at this rate, Prog Metal will be a parallel entity to Progresive Rock with many sub-genres and probably more bands than in all the Progressive Rock genres added.
Iván
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Posted By: wodaemang
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 23:25
| as much as i know im gonna get it for this, i would say there is such thing as progressive rap or progressive hip hop, look into groups off a label called "anticon" and a lot of it is extremely interesting, its not the stupid idiotic style of hip hop on the radio, but it actually makes u think and is relatively intelligent |
Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 23:38
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Thanks for the Anticon tip, the Wikipedia entry makes them look interesting. But DJ Shadow's Endtroducing... should have stopped any dissenting voices as to whether there is such a thing as Progressive Hip Hop, regardless of whether one likes it or not. -------------
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Posted By: AtLossForWords
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 23:51
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I think part of the difficult with Prog Metal additions is that there really isn't a criteria set. Everything is still so subjective to the experts. For Symphonic Prog and Art Rock there have been decades of precedence for what is Symphonic Prog and what is Art Rock. This is much harder to do with Progressive Metal because it's a relatively young genre, and the categorization of a band like Opeth has opened windows for so many other bands to be taken into consideration which probably wouldn't have been considered prog metal back in '92 when Dream Theater released Images and Words.
It would be great to point back to decades and decades of history of prog metal to help our team make the decisions, but we don't have that resource, it just doens't exist.
@Ivan
If you were to ask me, I would say in many cases especially regarding what we call "contreversial" when there is doubt is to hold or reject. But a strong enough portion of the team must believe to reject the band. If we were to reject bands that have only one "no" vote many bands will either have their addition process grind to a screeching halt or fail to be added when they are an essential addition to this site. Our team represents many different points of prog meta, we can't always unanimously agree.
I feel we need to keep Prog Metal additions to the prog metal team because it's such a polarizing genre, and as you mentioned the lack of interest. Genre teams were created to eliminate confusion, and by bring more and more viewpoints, we will be more and more confused about the proper direction. -------------
"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls." |
Posted By: Aaron
Date Posted: July 04 2006 at 00:03
i never said the ads were homosexual, i said they were gay, which is a synonym for lame
i would actually prefer it if the ads were homosexual, maybe that would be progressive, it is much better than ads for online dating (with women who are dressed inapropriately most of the time, especially if i am at work and browsing this site (which i shouldnt be doing) and then some girls cleavage is on the screen) or the smiley face ads that scream "oh my god, no way" at me or... or... or...
i am about as harmless as it gets, this site is so funny
Aaron
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Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: July 04 2006 at 00:12
Would you use "hetero", "jewish" or "asian" as a synonym for lame? -------------
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Posted By: AtLossForWords
Date Posted: July 04 2006 at 00:15
That's why there is barely any precedent for the genre. Progressive Metal still hasn't really hit it's peak. There is still so much innovation coming out of this genre. That's why it is so hard to categorize. -------------
"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls." |
Posted By: Aaron
Date Posted: July 04 2006 at 00:28
i am not homophobic at all, you need to lighten up, i have gay friends, no i don't have lame friends, you see how gay has multiple meanings
this site has gay ads
i have gay friends
one word, two meanings, language is like that
i could even call the ads homosexual, but i would obviously not actually mean these ads were homosexual by the actual definition of the word
it is intended to be funny, some people get it- somepeople don't
the more people say that sh*t, the more exceptable it becomes, AND not in a bad way
f**kin' a i love gay people, i love everyone, you are talking to a fruitcake here, christ
Aaron
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Posted By: Aaron
Date Posted: July 04 2006 at 00:43
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i guess when it comes to progressive metal the things that black metal has done i would consider progressive in it's own way, i haven't really checked our Agalloch yet, but i feel like they are in the true spirit of progressive metal
playing complex music with odd time signature and long songs, it's been done before, it's less about the music and more about the awesomeness of technicality, which frankly i find boring
Aaron
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Posted By: FishyMonkey
Date Posted: July 04 2006 at 00:44
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Aaron, don't be a ****ing retard. Gay doesn't have two meanings. It has one, which is homosexual. People like you just feel like it's fine ot call things gay because so many other people call things gay, or, as you say, lame. Why do you think people call things gay? Because gay people aren't accepted in the same way. The same reason people say "that's so jewish". Jews are seperated from the norm just like gay people are, and gays/jews got a bad name. Thus calling things lame turned into calling them jewish or gay. So therefore people think it's ok to say that now gay and jewish have two meanings. They have ONE meaning, and people like you are the people who think it's ok to use them in every day speech like they have two. So stop being an asshole and think about what you're saying. If you love gay people don't go around using them as a synonym for lame. That's just stupid.
I really hate when people do that. On topic, stop worrying about prog becoming synonymous with metal. You worry too much, people who know what they are talking about aren't going to say that. Read my other post for a more detailed idea of my opinion. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/FishyMonkey/?chartstyle=artists">
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Posted By: Teaflax
Date Posted: July 04 2006 at 00:59
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Aaron, the more people use "gay" as a synonym for something bad, the
more you're adding to homophobia, whether you mean to or not. Go ask your gay friends how they feel about a word that's descriptive of them being used as a derogatory term, and I'm sure you'll stop using it that way. So, the answer was "thoughtless". -------------
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Posted By: Aaron
Date Posted: July 04 2006 at 01:07
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language is funny
people talk differently
words change meaning
the people that are this PC scare the sh*t out of me
i even had someone get upset with me for saying the word "gyp" because of its history, now that is scary, now that is closeminded, they see that and they shut the door, you can't talk with these people
if i called someone a jew because they were picking up change off of the ground, i wouldn't be insulting jewish people, because it lacks sincerity
yes i would actually be calling them a jew, by the exact definition of the word and use of the stereotype, but you can't read it as an insult, i am just poking fun at stereotypes and history, what the hell do i care if he picks up a quarter on the ground, i would do it too
Aaron
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Posted By: Aaron
Date Posted: July 04 2006 at 01:19
some think it is funny, some not at all, and some call themselves a fag (is that ok?)
i shouldn't have to watch what i say, fearing that i may offend someone (if i am around the right crowd) but ahhh!!! there we go, i am offending someone on this site, but my only true defense here is the internet is an international mess and i say just let it flow, most everything anyone has to say has little value and shouldn't be read so deeply, you get my meaning, no need to criticize the way i speak, it's just my little addition to the mess, and i never mean to harm anyone that doesn't deserve to be harmed
i am probably going to peace out now
Aaron
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: July 04 2006 at 01:44
Honestly I feel more cofusion when pure Metal bands at all are listed as Prog Metal.
But I learned to vive with this.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: Pneubauer
Date Posted: July 04 2006 at 02:03
A ****ing retard? ^ Did you TRY to say the DUMBEST thing you possibly could have said? Im sorry... actually, a bigger hypocrisy would have been to call him a '****ing fag' but you came pretty close. Stop being so critical of Aaron. And Teaflax, when you mentioned him using 'hetero or Jewish' or whatever to mean 'lame'... well personally I wouldnt find it offensive if he used 'hetero'... and if I was Jewish... well Im fairly certain I wouldnt give a damn in that case either. Its obvious he wasnt trying to offend anyone. So what if he uses the word in a way that is so commonly used anyway. I dont think anyone cares anymore. Jesus.... I still cant get over the 'retard' thing... I mean, its not that its THAT bad that you said it... but then the argument you make right after saying it... hillarious! |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: July 04 2006 at 02:04
I think that, in most cases, it is all in the eye of the beholder, so to say. There are no hard and fast rules as to what constitutes "progginess" (after all, music is not a hard science, nor it is ever likely to become one), therefore it should not surprise us that the decision to include band X instead of band Y ultimately boils down to genre team members' individual views of what makes a band prog. This is, at least, what I have noticed since I have started posting on this forum. While everybody agrees on the prog quotient of, say, Genesis, Yes or the Canterbury bands, I've seen people questioning the progginess of Pink Floyd, Porcupine Tree and other more or less 'established' bands. What I really think is that we will never be able to completely eradicate these feelings of confusion, just because of the diversity of viewpoints. The only wise thing, as Ivan said, is to come to terms with this and not to make a mountain out of a molehill if certain bands are included at the expense of others. Life is hard enough as it is without losing sleep over Queen, Deep Purple or some obscure Norwegian Black Metal band being included in PA. |
Posted By: Australian
Date Posted: July 04 2006 at 02:11
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I see what you mean. But I think prog and metal suite each other ------------- 
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 04 2006 at 02:11
Progressive Power Metal reaches back into the 80s with Crimson Glory, who recorded their masterpiece "Transcendence" in 1988. Sorry, but if there's one band that paved the way for simplistic music to be accepted in the archives, then it's: Marillion ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 04 2006 at 02:15
Why are you so touchy about that? You once mentioned that you don't like South Park ... it figures. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 04 2006 at 02:32
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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