Minimum Length For An Epic
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics related to progressive music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2637
Printed Date: May 18 2025 at 07:14
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Minimum Length For An Epic
Posted By: Sweetnighter
Subject: Minimum Length For An Epic
Date Posted: December 21 2004 at 00:25
|
i'm going to say 9 mins.
------------- I bleed coffee. When I don't drink coffee, my veins run dry, and I shrivel up and die. "Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso? Is that like the bank of Italian soccer death or something?" -my girlfriend |
Replies:
Posted By: BebieM
Date Posted: December 21 2004 at 00:40
|
I don't really know what to vote for. Maybe you should've made less possibilities and bigger differences (i.e. 5 min, 10 min, 15 min, 20 min, 25 min). I don't think we really get a big use out of this thread, maybe a tendency. Also it's hard to define epic for me, but maybe i would consider the following the best prog songs ever (prog songs!!! there are other bands i like equally, but their songs are not as long, so i wouldnt call them epics): Anglagard - Jordrok (11 min), Caravan - Nine Feet Underground (23 min??), every GY!BE song (~20min), Pink Floyd - Atom Heart Mother Suite (24min), Camel - both Nimrodel (9min) and lady fantasy (11min), genesis - both musical box (11min) and cinema show (12min??), King Crimson - both Starless (12 min) and 21st century schizoid man (7:30min) Maybe you can't call 21st cntury schizoid man an epic, so I won't include it in my vote... so the shortest one is: Nimrodel (9min), i voted for 9 min! |
Posted By: Hangedman
Date Posted: December 21 2004 at 00:43
| I said 15 minutes, If it isnt that long it just doesnt do it for me as an epic. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: December 21 2004 at 01:26
| I voted 7 minutes, because I know some songs that are pretty epic at that length. But then I thought about it, and 10+ is actually a much better number for it. |
Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: December 21 2004 at 01:36
|
11 minutes, 8 - 11 minutes would be a mini-epic. ------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Posted By: Dead Jester
Date Posted: December 21 2004 at 02:01
| 6 inches. |
Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: December 21 2004 at 02:11
|
Yes I know isn't it terrific. ------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Dead Jester wrote:Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: December 21 2004 at 03:49
|
If an epic doesn't stretch to 15 minutes plus, well, they're just not trying! ------------- 
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: Emperor
Date Posted: December 21 2004 at 04:17
|
Genesis's FOUNTAIN OF SALMACIS is less than 8 min, so I've voted for 8 min.
------------- I Prophesy Disaster... |
Posted By: AngelRat
Date Posted: December 21 2004 at 05:06
|
Queen's 'Bohemian Rhapsody' is considered as an all-time classic epic by lots of people. It clocks in at just under 6 minutes. -------------  |
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: December 21 2004 at 06:23
|
This poll is useless. Sorry, but what's the point? |
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: December 21 2004 at 07:45
Bit harsh there, J..... There are over 2550 topics on the forums so far, not all of them worthy, by any means. You been taking subtelty lessons from a certain reincarnated circus performer??  -------------
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: December 21 2004 at 14:18
|
I'd say under 5 minutes. To take some very different examples, only one track on "A Wizard, A True Star" is over 5 minutes long, and most of them are truly epic. Ruins also play mostly short pieces which contain more ideas then many side long concept pieces. "Immigrant Song" takes you to Valhalla and back in less time than it takes to boil an egg. Don't get me wrong, I love long pieces, but there's more to an epic than just duration. |
Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: December 21 2004 at 14:26
|
Very difficult to put a figure on it, as an epic is not really defined by its length. For example, "Can utility and the coast liners" by Genesis is for me, everything an epic should be, yet it's about 5 minutes. On the other hand, "Facelift" by Soft machine is about 20 minutes, but I see it as a jazz fusion improvisation, and by no means epic. |
Posted By: gdub411
Date Posted: December 21 2004 at 14:32
| I would say 15 minutes!!...maybe longer! |
Posted By: Wizard/TRueStar
Date Posted: December 21 2004 at 15:14
I'm gonna say 6 minutes because that time is roughly in the middle of the range of song length's on Genesis's "Trespass". Once I understood the album I noted that all the songs have 20 minute epic feel. the somgs are just as rewarding as well. Don't forget Peter Gabriel's "Family Snapshot", it's definately a 20 minute - 4 minute song
|
Posted By: Swinton MCR
Date Posted: December 21 2004 at 15:51
|
Epic - First definition is "A LONG narrative poem". Thus a prog epic must have length as a pre-requisite, the average prog track is approximately 7.5 mins in Length...thus an epic must be twice as long at least - thus the 15 mins plus...... Q.E.D ------------- Play me my song, here it comes again |
Posted By: Vegetableman
Date Posted: December 21 2004 at 16:19
|
I think it all depends. "Epic" is a term that can be used pretty loosely. But I think to be qualified as an epic, the song must tell a story. All four of the long songs on Selling England by the Pound could be considered epics with that criteria. But these songs would be just as epic as they would be with the extended instrumental sections, especially in Firth of Fifth and The Cinema Show. The problem is, take those sections out and they lose part of their dynamic structure, and would not be a prog as they were without it. But a song doesn't have to be long to be prog, YYZ is undoubtedly a progressive piece, and only clocks in at 4:24. An epic song can just as easily be summed up in 5 minutes. A Day in the Life is certainly an epic, but of course, it isn't really prog. You see, in order for a song to have epic and progressive qualities, it must be long for the story and music to both play their part. Xanadu is both, but would it still be both without the five minute instrumental intro? I don't really think you can put a label like "all songs over 15 minutes" are epics, since A Day in the Life and Xanadu are epic and under 15 minutes. It really depends on the song, just as there are songs over 15 minutes that are certainly not epics. ------------- "Mister Fripp, your music is quite different than everything else out there. In one word, how would you describe it?" "Progressive.... yeah, that's it..." |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: December 21 2004 at 16:23
|
22 minutes and 54 seconds is the perfect length for an epic
Walking across the sitting room..... |
Posted By: maani
Date Posted: December 21 2004 at 18:43
|
All: Swinton seems to be going in the right direction by suggesting that the word "epic" needs definition (sort of like "prog"... If 9 minutes - or even 15 minutes - is "epic," then what word (other than "masterpiece"...) do we use to describe compositions like "Supper's Ready," "Thick as a Brick," "Zarathustra," or any other 20-minute+ composition? Conversely, if we describe those (properly, in my opinion) as "epics," then we need another word to describe the compositions offered thus far. Peace. |
Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: December 21 2004 at 18:47
.......doing an improbable trick with the Tv off-switch eh Cert? ------------- 
|
Posted By: Reed Lover
Date Posted: December 21 2004 at 18:56
Conventionally "epic" refers to being "grand in scale" not just "length". By-tor and the Snow Dog has an "epic" feel to it but it is only 8 minutes long. One wouldnt want to start using "Progressive Rock Opera" for a composition such as "Supper's Ready" because that would sound silly, but it is not far from the truth. Magnum Opus?
-------------
|
Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: December 21 2004 at 19:09
------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
p
k)Posted By: Fitzcarraldo
Date Posted: December 21 2004 at 19:20
|
Reed Lover wrote: ".......doing an improbable trick with the Tv off-switch eh Cert? It's called "historical present tense" or "dramatic present tense" and, whilst it bothers Certif1ed, is quite commonly used in literature and there is nothing wrong with it, grammatically speaking.
|
Posted By: Sound Chaser
Date Posted: December 21 2004 at 21:34
| I would say 9 or 10 minutes as a minimum. |
Posted By: Eddy
Date Posted: December 21 2004 at 22:11
| i think this is a silly post. |
Posted By: Arioch
Date Posted: December 21 2004 at 22:18
|
I say 79 minutes and 3 seconds....everything else is too short. The Sacrilege of Fatal Arm.....Devil Doll..79.03 ------------- Knight of the Swords Lord of Entropy Duke of Chaos |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: December 22 2004 at 02:27
All: ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: headboy
Date Posted: December 22 2004 at 03:56
|
getting up in the morning is quite epic........
----------------------- marmamlade, i like marmalade. http://www.atascape.com - www.atascape.com |
Posted By: BebieM
Date Posted: December 22 2004 at 04:02
so? >15 min? btw, i like psychedelic breakfasts ... |
Posted By: headboy
Date Posted: December 22 2004 at 05:37
|
nah....longer! yes, quite yummy aren't they... http://www.atascape.com - www.atascape.com |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: May 23 2005 at 18:22
|
I think to be defined as an epic it has to be long, the shortest being around 15 min. Not saying that shorter songs are not epic worthy, thier just not epics. A good example would be GG- Nothing at all. A great song with epic qualities, but i feel it is too short to be a true epic. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Tristan Mulders
Date Posted: May 24 2005 at 11:43
It depends on the song we're talking about, but I find 10 min to be the minimum, although most epics I know are around the 15min mark. ------------- Interested in my reviews? You can find them http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=784 - HERE "...He will search until He's found a Way to take the Days..." |
Posted By: MustShaveBeard
Date Posted: May 24 2005 at 15:04
|
I wouldn't say epic has anything to do with length. It has to have several sections and at least one climax. That makes "Can Utility and the Coastliners" a definite epic, so I'll say 5 minutes (It could possibly be even shorter). ------------- Your life or your lupins!!! |
Posted By: nacho
Date Posted: May 24 2005 at 15:09
|
SIZE DOESN'T REALLY MATTERS!!!
Does it?
|
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: May 24 2005 at 15:29
|
All my " epics", from Genesis, Yes, ELP, U.K. etc. are longer than 9 minutes. Well, I call them epics anyway. |
Posted By: Philrod
Date Posted: May 24 2005 at 18:12
|
Depends of your definition of an epic, really. If Bohemian Rhapsody is an epic for you, than abotu anytime, and if not, maybe 8 minutes. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Philrod/?chartstyle=Geldropdown-small"> 
|
Posted By: video vertigo
Date Posted: May 26 2005 at 02:39
|
15 min, how can you tell a good story in less time and still include wicked solos? impossible. ------------- "The rock and roll business is pretty absurd, but the world of serious music is much worse." - Zappa |
Posted By: the dragon
Date Posted: May 26 2005 at 04:30
| Good wines is not in big barrells... |
Posted By: Jools
Date Posted: May 26 2005 at 08:03
|
6 mins, Bohemian Rhapsody is pretty Epic at 5.55. ------------- Ridicule is the burden of genius. |
Posted By: Yanns
Date Posted: May 27 2005 at 21:22
| I went 14 minutes because of Silent Inferno by TFK. |
Posted By: Hamatai
Date Posted: July 06 2005 at 06:12
| Happy the Man - Service with a smile - 2: 45 |
Posted By: Progzilla
Date Posted: July 06 2005 at 06:30
|
An epic is an epic regardless of how long it takes to listen to it. You
can't say tough luck, this song would have been a great epic, but
unfortunately it clocks at 8.59, not making the cut... But do you know any long songs that are definately NOT considered epics? 20 minutes anyone? ------------- Currently listening to: - Andromeda - Pagan's Mind - Kamelot |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 06 2005 at 07:11
|
I'd say about 20 minutes. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
|
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: July 06 2005 at 13:49
|
15 minutes or over -------------  |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: July 06 2005 at 13:53
| I'd say over 9 minutes long. |
Posted By: Mr. Floyd
Date Posted: July 06 2005 at 14:40
| It's conceptual not cuantitative. If the artist says or you sens it as epic, that is to transcend an only and unique idea, then it's an epic, no matter the lenght. |
Posted By: Cygnus
Date Posted: July 13 2005 at 06:00
|
THATS A QUITE ´´INVALID´´ QUESTION. I BELIVE THAT IS THE MUSIC THAT DEFINES THE EPIC NOT THE LENGTH. THERE ARE SONG WHICH IN 20 MINUTES CANT SAY ANYTHING AND OTHERS THAT IN 5 MINUTES FULL OF TWISTS AND TURNS AND CLEVER STRUCTURES DEFINE PROG MUSIC. |
Posted By: Publius
Date Posted: August 02 2005 at 21:50
|
11/12. Lady Fantasy by Camel being a prime example at 12:45. 10 minutes for a suite (One For The Vine, Karn Evil 9: 1st Impression 1&2.). ------------- I'm so prog, I clap in 9/8 |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: August 19 2005 at 16:23
I think 10 mins should do it ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: Damen
Date Posted: August 19 2005 at 22:17
|
9 minutes. ------------- "It's amazing that we've been able to put up with each other for 35 years. Most marriages don't last that long these days." -Chris Squire |