Dream Theater "Images and Words" magic formula
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Topic: Dream Theater "Images and Words" magic formula
Posted By: akin
Subject: Dream Theater "Images and Words" magic formula
Date Posted: July 31 2006 at 17:35
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I'm not much into Dream Theater music, but one thing that bores me in
Images and Words is that all the long songs seems to be a "magic
formula": a intro with some guitar and keyboard, main riffs during the
verses and chorus then a long instrumental interlude with many solos.
Near the end returns the verse/chorus section to finish the song. Not that it is bad, but most of songs follow this structure. The result is the losing of interest in the album. When I first heard Learning to Live, it seemed a great song. Listening it in the album, it doesn't seem so great, because at the time it starts, I'm already bored with the same structure. Are the other albuns the same thing? All their longer songs are made over this formula? |
Replies:
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: July 31 2006 at 18:23
| Funny, I've been listening to that album for almost 15 years and I still haven't lost interest. |
Posted By: MajesterX
Date Posted: July 31 2006 at 18:28
No. No. Many of their songs do not follow and sort of formula, they just do what they want and what they feel is best. oh, and please don't make more dream theater threads. ------------- 
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akin wrote:Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: July 31 2006 at 18:28
yeah, that's kinda true... still a masterpiece IMO. Aside form structure the songs develop into very complex and varied soundscapes, most notably Learning To Live... which doesn't really follow that structure, it ends with a long orgasmic instrumental section. One of their finest moments surely!And on other albums it's very different. I&W is probably their most cliched album... it's very different on later works like Awake, SFAM or 6DOIT. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: AtLossForWords
Date Posted: July 31 2006 at 18:55
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I hope Rafaella doesn't faint after she sees the title of this thread.
On a casual level some of the structure of Images and Words may seem formulatic, but the album has many techinques such as odd-timed turnarounds, dynamnic contrast, tonal contrast, constant unison instrumental modulations, and key changes which are complex techinques of songwriting that no one could do by accident.
Other Dream Theater albums have much different structure most notably Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, in which the first disc is amongst the most creative and imaginative of both the band and the genre. -------------  
"Mastodon sucks giant monkey balls." |
Posted By: juanvalverde
Date Posted: July 31 2006 at 19:18
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i dont see why we cant make any more dream theater threads..... ------------- Dream Theater made me listen to Rush,Yes, ELP, Genesis.. That must count for something! |
Posted By: MajesterX
Date Posted: July 31 2006 at 19:31
you can, but many people (including myself) won't like it because there are around 4 dream theater threads a day and we are all getting sick of them, so if you want to be respected more by many of the forumers, don't make another dream theater thread for a while. -------------
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Posted By: patomtz
Date Posted: July 31 2006 at 19:36
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I love Dream Theater, and I will never hate them,
but if people keep making threads of DT, the ones that barely like them will get sick of them without hearing it. ------------- I still can't get how Dream Theater music is created by humans Dream Theater in Monterrey, Mexico 03.03.06 Unforgettable 
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Posted By: akin
Date Posted: July 31 2006 at 20:23
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Pretty injust these responses about another topic talking of Dream Theater. I didnīt said how Dream Theater is great neither how Dream Theater is not prog. I asked an advice about their other albuns. Dream Theater topics bore me when they are made just to say they are the best or they are the worst. As all topics asking if band X is prog or not. If you donīt like Dream Theater topics, donīt read them. And be civilized next time. |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: July 31 2006 at 20:38
Interesting to see that you have elected yourself spokesperson for the people.... 
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Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: July 31 2006 at 20:45
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akin, Try "Lines in the sand" off Falling Into Infinity, some great emotional guitar from Petrucci.
This, for me anyway, was the most difficult DT album to get into. I actually hated it at first, but now it has become my favourite and the one I never seem to get tired of.
(This would be a great starting point for Micky and his horsemen)
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Posted By: akin
Date Posted: July 31 2006 at 21:13
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Thanks for the advice. My friend lent me Octavarium and it sure have
different songs from the "magic formula", like Octavarium and
Sacrificed Sons. Not that I dislike Images and Words, I like it, but sometimes I find that the "formula" is somewhat repetitive and when I first listened to it, in the last songs I was expecting the solos at the 4 or 5 minutes and the main verse one minute before the end of the song. And I was not surprised. I will try 6 degrees. I donīt know why it is cheaper than Octavarium, Scenes, Falling into Infinity because it is a double album and the others a single album 
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Posted By: MajesterX
Date Posted: July 31 2006 at 21:40
It was an observation. I think most of the people who have been doing the complaining would agree. Hey, it worked! Persuasion isn't an easy thing to do with only your opinion.  Sorry If I offended thee, Master Tony, I will proceed to flog myself to the bone in order to please your great self.  -------------
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Posted By: OpethGuitarist
Date Posted: July 31 2006 at 23:23
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To answer the OP: more or less Most of their songs do follow this sort of build/intro verses/choruses fade/outro approach. That's one of the reasons I get tired of DT, its repititive yet not repititive, if that makes sense. They never seem to know when to END a song. Most of their songs end on some 2 minute instrumental outro. "Home, TDS, Take the Time" to name a few. However, not all of them do that. ------------- back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums |
Posted By: DrewMillar
Date Posted: July 31 2006 at 23:30
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Why do some people seem fixated on remembering songs and basing their enjoyment of songs just by their structure ? Surely we should be appreciating the riffs, the soundscapes created, mental imagery, the sheer volume of ideas involved. of course structure is important, but you have to consider that very few combinations of songs in this genre can't have their structures compared and generalised to create an "average" theory of how the structures relate to eachother. Next time you listen to these songs try to observe more than just the basic formula |
Posted By: Zitro
Date Posted: July 31 2006 at 23:49
What?? Please tell me you're joking. Glass Prison sounds like a metallica song stretched too long, Disappear has the dark sound that you could find in ballads of prog metal bands, the great Debate sounds way too much like tool, blind faith has nothing innovative, and the other one is cool and has some psychedelia in metal, but that has been done before (hint: Third Eye) |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: July 31 2006 at 23:54
maybe he meant the second disc, that one meets the description fully IMO  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: Zitro
Date Posted: July 31 2006 at 23:57
| The second disk is not innovative anyways ... it sounds like pieces of songs connected together, the song themselves sound very typical of the band. |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: August 01 2006 at 00:00
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It sounds pretty well as a whole, and it's not your typical progmetal. There's plenty of experimentation/innovation on parts like Overture, Goodnight Kiss... and It's not even metal for the most part.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: Barla
Date Posted: August 01 2006 at 00:16
No. Songs like "Trial Of Tears" and "Lines In The Sand" are more in the experimental vein, specially on the intro. And you have to hear the guitar solo on "Trial Of Tears", awesome !!  All DT longer somgs are very different !! Anyway, a lot of Prog bands on songs of 10 or more minutes use the formula: intro - verse/s (chorus) - instrumental interlude / solos - returns (or not) - outro. That's common. I don't see DT to be the only band that uses that 'magic formula'. |
Posted By: Fede
Date Posted: August 01 2006 at 00:57
I think that if Dream Theater is one of the most progressive bands in the metal genre nowadays, then it's for something. It's not gonna be because all the songs are equal talking about the structure of these songs and if it's like that, then I don't care because it's still an excellent album IMO. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: August 01 2006 at 01:04
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Posted By: mukster
Date Posted: August 01 2006 at 01:21
I am trying to get into DT, but I must admit Labrie's voice just does not cut it for me. The musicians are excellent, but there is some music that is not meant for me, including, by the sounds of it, DT. If somehow it "comes to me", I shall certainly report back. Oh and rather than start another thread, The Beatles are pop. Period.  ------------- "Johnny calls the chemist, but the chemist doesn't come" |
Posted By: toolis
Date Posted: August 01 2006 at 01:41
| I & W cliche?!?!? what are you talking about? besides Pull Me Under and Under A Glass Room the rest of the songs could stand on their own...can you compare Take The Time to Surrounded to Metropolis to Wait For Sleep to Learning to Live? i don't think so... |
Posted By: Mr. Sanchez
Date Posted: August 01 2006 at 02:26
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I don't understand why DT are trashed for their style of songwriting... So what if they write music with long instrumental sections, or LaBrie's vocals aren't up to standard...At least people enjoy their music, I do. Someone has to do it... If every band was the same, how boring would that be? ------------- It's Calling Me Back To My Home. |
Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: August 01 2006 at 05:54
exactly the same here
I don't see any repetition as people mention here
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: August 01 2006 at 06:07
The structure of the songs is not THAT similar. If you're bored by the mere fact that most prog songs have some kind of intro at the beginning, an outro at the end, verses/chorus parts that are repeated in some way and solos/bridges that appear mostly in the track "body" ... then you have a problem. BTW: Learning to Live, Metropolis, Glass Moon ... these tracks are not at all like you describe them. Pull Me Under and Take The Time ... maybe, but even in Take The Time there are many parts that aren't repeated at all. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to: 
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Posted By: Tasartir
Date Posted: August 01 2006 at 11:18
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Oh man, another DT thread...I used to like them at first and now I'm just sick and tired of them and their "totally true" fanboys that don't listen to much except DT and believe they are the greatest bands in the world.
My favorite album used to be awake, but it just wears out so quickly, like all their other works...Go listen to The Mars Volta or Marillion, DT is just Rush gone crazy. ------------- ...Histoires Sans Paroles... |
Posted By: sbrushfan
Date Posted: August 01 2006 at 12:21
Even though I think DT is a bit overrated, I happen to love Images and Words. I listen to it still at least three-four times a week, and can find nothing wrong with it (hence my five-star write-up). It's compelling, emotional and heavy in all the right places. There definitely was some magic fairy dust sprinkled about the studio when they were recording it. It seems like everybody had this telepathic level of communicating with each other. Not only that, but the production gives everything (vocals, guitars, keys, drums...and I CAN HEAR THE BASS!!!! <tears of joy>) a gloss without being slick and overproduced. Perfect. Too bad Awake and Falling Into Infinity couldn't hit the same marks. ------------- Some world views are spacious, and some are merely spaced... |
Posted By: akin
Date Posted: August 01 2006 at 14:29
Well, I have between 500 and 1,000 prog albuns, I don't thnk I have problems with the structure. I just noticed that they do this structure very often in the album. It could be intro, verse/chorus, solo/bridge, verse, solo/bridge, verse/chorus or intro verse/chorus. solos, outro. These things could bring more interesting things besides the good musicianship. |