Italian Prog in the 70s
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Music Lounge
Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2736
Printed Date: August 14 2025 at 10:23
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Topic: Italian Prog in the 70s
Posted By: Sweetnighter
Subject: Italian Prog in the 70s
Date Posted: December 27 2004 at 10:27
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I've recently been getting into groups like PFM and Banco, and I was
just wondering if anybody knows why Italy sprung up as a big home for
prog back in the early days of the genre. It seems to me that
Italians took up prog moreso than the UK's english-speaking brethren
across the atlantic here in the states. Why is this? Also, does anybody
know where you can get translations for PFM or Banco songs? Subquestion: Why did the United States generate so few lasting prog outfits in the 70s? ------------- I bleed coffee. When I don't drink coffee, my veins run dry, and I shrivel up and die. "Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso? Is that like the bank of Italian soccer death or something?" -my girlfriend |
Replies:
Posted By: Kashmir
Date Posted: December 27 2004 at 10:34
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I think England is the beginning of Prog with Pink Floyd ,King Crimson ,Moody Blues ,Yes ... And the reason that Italy became big home of Prog to me because they had PFM ,Banco and especially Le Orme to raise the movement .Compare with US at that time is excited with Hard Rock and other popular music's styles . But one thing : US now is the big home for Prog metal
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Posted By: Sweetnighter
Date Posted: December 27 2004 at 10:45
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Well England is the undoubted king of prog, the original symphonic/art prog at any rate. I guess you're right... Americans weren't ready for prog in the midst of hard rock, whereas Europeans were. ------------- I bleed coffee. When I don't drink coffee, my veins run dry, and I shrivel up and die. "Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso? Is that like the bank of Italian soccer death or something?" -my girlfriend |
Posted By: DallasBryan
Date Posted: December 27 2004 at 12:03
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US rock movement was grounded in blues based
music, this also affected the UK, but they had more exposure to classical music. The euro continents rock music was mainly birthed from classical and jazz elements, hence symphonic elements abounded. This is of course overlooking the folk element that was there in all these movements. The germans dumped the vocals due to the problem with communication between european tongues and replaced standard instrumentation with electronics. The US was slow to move into the progressive scene due to the lack of classical influences, although Steely Dan had a major impact on many artists with there jazz rock melodic approach and metaphorical lyrics. |
Posted By: Kashmir
Date Posted: December 27 2004 at 13:20
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Another mentions : Germany is home of Krautrock , France is home of Zeuhl ... Imagine that Prog rock just like a cake that each Prog country has one piece .And Italy is always impatient to eat
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Posted By: Museo
Date Posted: October 16 2005 at 16:44
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Hi you all! A friend of mine recently wanted me to explain him the differences between English and Italian progressive music as for sound, technic, way of composing and so on. I’d like to read opinions by non-Italian people on this question. Thanks. P.S. I offer myself for transcrition or translation from Italian into English language as for lyrics of progressive bands. http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2736&KW=italian - ------------- E dove l'aria in fondo tocca il mare lo sguardo diritto può guardare. |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: October 16 2005 at 16:56
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I don't know. It's interesting to see that prog was really big in Italy in the early '70's. And that Van der Graaf Generator was the most popular English band in the early '70's. They played once for 40.000 people! That says something. Maybe it's a country were people are raised with a solid musical education? I always wondered why there are so many good Italian singers. As if lots of Italian kids learn to appreciate and sing opera when they're young. |
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: October 16 2005 at 17:32
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It's very interesting to compare the musicans and the musical heritage of the UK and Italy: Many progrock musicians from the symphonic dinosaurs came from the Southern part of the Uk, the wealthy regions like Surrey and Kent. Most of those people haven't learned to express their emotions, the so called 'upper stiff lip mentality' (poshy, control-minded). Most of the musical heritage was imported by the UK from other parts of Europe (Bach, Beethoven, Strawinsky, Mahler, etc.). In Italy most people are very emotional, this blended with the rich classical background (Verdi, Rossini, Vivaldi), the artistic freedom and the influence from the UK symphonic rock dinosaurs is for me an explanation why the Italian progressive rock scene in the Seventies delivered so many captivating (emotion as an extra dimension) and varied progrock bands, from Osanna, Latte E Miele, PFM, Banco an Le Orme to Cherry Five, Museo Rosenbach, New Trolls, Semiramis and I Dik Dik. FORZA ITALIA!!! (Only when it comes to soccer I'm off with the Italians..!) |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: October 16 2005 at 18:20
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Forza Italia indeed!
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Posted By: PeeWee
Date Posted: October 17 2005 at 14:03
| I like quite a lot of italian prog. There is hovwer one thing that irritates me a bit about it, a fault that is also present in many other bands. I think that their vocals are to spare and often in the wrong spaces. When you have an eight minute song with one and a half minute of vocal at the start only, it can get quite boring. Another problem is that many band only have vocals over the more quiet parts, while there is no vocals over the more heavy parts. I think that PFM is one of the worst offenders here, while Le Orme, Museo Rosenbach and Banco are notable exceptions. |
Posted By: yargh
Date Posted: October 17 2005 at 14:23
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Reasons for this have been laid out in the books written on the progressive rock movement. The general consensus among the authors is that the Brits (and Europeans, by extension) were a more class-oriented society and mixing rock music with classical was a way of bringing a "legitimacy" to their pursuits of rock music. Americans, generally unburdened by the need for such pretensions, for the most part didn't go along -- and when they did, it was often to ape the music made in the UK. RIO/jazz-fusion were, by and large, the genuinely creative American "wings" of progressive rock; unsurprisingly, since jazz is American music and American classical didn't really develop into its own thing until the 20th century. '70s progressive, informed as it was generally by 19th Century Romanticism in terms of both ideology and musical inspiration, was UK/Continent-oriented. |
Posted By: DallasBryan
Date Posted: October 18 2005 at 02:49
I guess I shouldnt say " I told you so!" Long live Picchio dal Pozzo, Sensations Fix, Il Volo and Luciano Basso for their mid to late 70's movement to instrumental prog, Brilliant! 
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PeeWee wrote:Posted By: Andrea Cortese
Date Posted: October 18 2005 at 05:43
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I would remember also Locanda delle Fate!
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Posted By: geezer
Date Posted: October 18 2005 at 06:01
It never ceases to amaze me what kind of a problem you have with the other than English vocals. I feel so sorry for you. You have no idea what you are missing. It is hard for me to understand because I think the 70's Italian prog possessed some of the best vocalists. I would never want those great Italian vocals to be changed to great English vocals. "When you have an eight minute song with one and a half minute of vocal at the start only, it can get quite boring" This is exactly how I like it. I like it that the bands don't stick to normal song formulas. If they try to be normal, that it is what gets boring! |
Posted By: Andrea Cortese
Date Posted: October 18 2005 at 06:08
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Also the italian lyrics are often superb! One of the greatest examples are Le Orme!! http://www.le-orme.com/discografia/uomodipezza.htm">
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http://www.le-orme.com/discografia/felonaesorona.htm">
These two albums are the proof!Posted By: Stiefel
Date Posted: October 18 2005 at 06:13
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we a |
Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: October 18 2005 at 06:20
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10 Essential Italian Prog albums according to TP:
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Posted By: beat
Date Posted: October 18 2005 at 09:15
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Thanks Trouserpress, are there any other albums for Italian prog and how colud we find these albums? Besides, which group or albums do you recommend to get into the Italian prog, friends? I'm waiting for your comments.. |
Posted By: PeeWee
Date Posted: October 18 2005 at 09:15
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I actually like the italian vocals quite a lot. Italian is a very good fitting language for symphonic prog, and the vocalists are on average superioer to vocalists from other countries. I do hovewer think that the vocals on italian bands are to scarce. And I do admit it, I do not like music to be too uncommercial either. I do appreciate a catchy tune, and therefore like bands like Spocks Beard and Echolyn. |
Posted By: Heptade
Date Posted: October 18 2005 at 09:46
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Italians love classical music, and prog was an opportunity mix classical
and opera with rock, so they jumped on it. I quite enjoy it. ------------- The world keeps spinning, people keep sinning And all the rest is just bullsh*t -Steve Kilbey |
Posted By: geezer
Date Posted: October 18 2005 at 10:48
Sorry, that was meant for DallasBryan. He is the one who has the language problem. |
Posted By: crazycloud
Date Posted: October 18 2005 at 22:05
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it's all about the Goblin ~~!
------------- And it's high time Cymbaline It's high time |
Posted By: Museo
Date Posted: October 19 2005 at 04:46
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Try to conceive the notes as portrait-painters of the subject the album is dealing with. For example: in La conquista della posizione eretta the singer (in this case Francesco Di Giacomo) starts to sing at sixth minute of the suite and he describes the endavours by the primitive man to rise himself to the erect posture. But, in the *first six minutes* the MUSIC has already described it, with its moments of suspensions-and-conclusions (the man who tries to stand up and fall down), with its moments of quiet (the man who is recovering his strenght) or with its moments of sustained suspance (the man in front of his will-power). Tell me what you think of it. I agree with most of the sentences by geezer; I also want to thank Moogtron III and erik neuteboom for having tried to answer my question (erik, I found your idea interesting). ------------- E dove l'aria in fondo tocca il mare lo sguardo diritto può guardare. |
Posted By: Andrea Cortese
Date Posted: October 19 2005 at 16:06
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Just enter this site!!!!!! All about italian prog!!!! http://www.italianprog.com/ - http://www.italianprog.com/ What about Venetian Power??? There's someone who've listened to them? and Alphataurus?
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Posted By: Andrea Cortese
Date Posted: October 19 2005 at 16:08
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Venetian Power cover.
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Posted By: Andrea Cortese
Date Posted: October 20 2005 at 06:35
| Do someone knows the above mentioned site? |
Posted By: geezer
Date Posted: October 20 2005 at 06:42
You mean www.italianprog.com? Of course, and i would guess that most who are into Italian prog knows about it. And I like many bands featured on that site...  |
Posted By: Simkim
Date Posted: October 20 2005 at 08:06
I just bought the Alphataurus album yesterday I was answering the question, but I have to go to lunch first. |
Posted By: Stiefel
Date Posted: October 20 2005 at 08:31
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italianprog is a very good site, with a lot of info about every italian band i also like movimentiprog concerning Venetian Power, i've never heard of them and Alphataurus, i know two songs, ombra muta and peccato d'orgoglio, but they did'nt urge me to buy the record |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: October 20 2005 at 09:32
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No, I didn't. I'll check that one out. |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: October 20 2005 at 09:34
| Oh wait, I recognise that site, http://www.italianprog.com - www.italianprog.com . Yes, it's good. |
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: October 21 2005 at 16:08
| I have even used information from that site for my Italian progrock biographies on Prog Archives (I mentioned them), very interesting site, I often look at it before writing reviews! |
Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: October 23 2005 at 09:14
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I've heard Alphataurus, Andrea. I wasn't very impressed. That Venetian Power cover looks frankly incredible, though. How could the music ever live up to a cover like that? |
Posted By: geezer
Date Posted: October 23 2005 at 09:22
| I like the Alphataurus album but it's not among the very best of 70's prog. |
Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: October 23 2005 at 09:24
| Nowhere near IMO. It struck me as being VERY uninspired, both in terms of performance and composition. |
Posted By: geezer
Date Posted: October 23 2005 at 09:29
11.58 on gnosis scale. I think I agree with them. |
Posted By: Andrea Cortese
Date Posted: October 23 2005 at 11:01
Incredible cover indeed! Never listened to the album yet. What do you think about Locanda delle Fate? |
Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: October 23 2005 at 11:14
Is that the one that often gets referred to as "romantic"? I don't have my music collection with me to chekc up right now. If you do mean that band, then I think they're all right, but a bit too cheesy sometimes. |
Posted By: Andrea Cortese
Date Posted: October 23 2005 at 11:19
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You're right, I think the album can be described as "romantic". Track 1, 2 and 5 are great, IMO. |
Posted By: Progbear
Date Posted: October 23 2005 at 14:42
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I’ve only heard one (long) track from the Alphataurus album, but was
rather underwhelmed by it after all I’d heard about the band. That Venetian Power LP definitely has a cool cover! The description of it over at italianprog.com doesn’t have me running out to shell out hundreds of bucks for it, though. ------------- [IMG] http://www.denness.net/rpi/u/Progbear/fs/8/w/500/cp/2/s/5/si g.png"> |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: October 23 2005 at 14:56
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My choice for top 10 Italians:
Sorry about this, TP started this |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 23 2005 at 14:58
thanks for the link, I'm a babe in the woods as far as Italian prog. Just ordered my 2nd set of 4 albums. Absolutely love what I've heard so far, and can't wait to get my hands on Zarathrustra, and Maxophone which are in my 2nd order. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: SlipperFink
Date Posted: October 24 2005 at 05:20
Bravo! SM. ------------- Modesty is an ornament, but one goes further without it. Old German Proverb |