Length of songs
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=27970
Printed Date: August 15 2025 at 19:28
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Topic: Length of songs
Posted By: RaúlGuate
Subject: Length of songs
Date Posted: August 30 2006 at 22:07
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Or in other words, do you like short songs, long songs, mini epics or true epics. I'd go with long songs (a band can say what they have to say in this length) followed closely by true epics (love to hear a story). |
Replies:
Posted By: dagrush
Date Posted: August 30 2006 at 22:37
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Somewhere between long songs and mini epics. Short songs annoy me and "true epics" are often too hit and miss. I prefer my music in the 8-12 minute range.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/omgwtfdagrush/"> 
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Posted By: darksinger
Date Posted: August 30 2006 at 22:44
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anything under 8 minutes is a commercial jingle...the longer, the better ------------- 
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Posted By: NotAProghead
Date Posted: August 30 2006 at 22:50
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0 minutes isn't enough. The rest depends on quality, the length isn't important.
The option "Not important" is missing. ------------- Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour) |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: August 30 2006 at 22:52
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It really depends on what is being expressed in the song, but I suppose most songs in the mini-epic range tend to be of the highest quality. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Terra Australis
Date Posted: August 30 2006 at 22:57
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What is really important is how good the music is, not the length! However, some lengths are more difficult to compose for. I chose 10-15 because most bands can write great music of this length. Anything longer often has filler or lacks flow. Anything shorter than 5 doesn't have enough time. ------------- Allomerus. Music with progressive intent. http://allomerus.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow - http://allomerus.bandcamp.com |
Posted By: Fassbinder
Date Posted: August 30 2006 at 23:24
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The length does not matter, the most important criterion is quality.
But, given a choice of good quality songs with different lengths, I would prefer a song of ca. 10 minutes, therefore it is difficult for me to choose between the second and the third options. Let's say, it should be between 7 and a half and 12 and a half minutes.
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Posted By: RaúlGuate
Date Posted: August 30 2006 at 23:47
Of course length doesn't matter guys. I'm just asking which do you tend to like the most. 
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Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: August 30 2006 at 23:50
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Somewhere around 8-20 I guess... so I'll go with 10-15.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: August 30 2006 at 23:52
Mini-epics are the best, as usually they have the most musical quality to them and there aren't as many filler spots.
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Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: August 30 2006 at 23:54
 though some of the greatest epics(Supper's Ready, 6DOIT, Cygnus x-2, And You And I, etc) are over 20. However some TFK songs could help being reduced by 10 or so minutes  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Cygnus X-2 wrote:Posted By: OpethGuitarist
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 00:22
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since most of what i listen to is mini epics, ill go with it
------------- back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums |
Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 00:24
By Cygnus X-2 I assume you mean Hemispheres (which isn't 20 minutes, by the way, and And You and I is barely 10). -------------
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Posted By: Dalkaen
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 02:18
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I don't really have a preference. I like variety.
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Posted By: Bastille Dude
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 02:26
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I like them long and complicated.
------------- DEATH TO FALSE PROG! |
Posted By: Tony Fisher
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 03:20
Oh dear, quantity not quality. That's partly why punk nearly killed prog in the late 70s. It doesn't matter how long. I'd rather listen to (say) Glimpse of Heaven (Strawbs - From the Witchwood) which is 4 mins of pure bliss than the 20 odd minute, self indulgent shambles that is Karn Evil 9. |
Posted By: MattiR
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 04:42
| mini epics (10 - 15 minutes) |
Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 04:50
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Long songs are what I hear the most of these days. Guess I'm in the minority there though. ------------- sig |
Posted By: Dragon Phoenix
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 05:04
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Only in a prog forum could a song of 4:59 be termed a short song.
------------- Blog this: http://artrock2006.blogspot.com |
Posted By: Australian
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 06:44
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It really depends on the type of song and mood of it. I can’t say I have a preferred length. ------------- 
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Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 08:45
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I like long songs on my MP3 player for when I'm out and about but otherwise, as long as its a good song I dont mind how long it is. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
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Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 12:17
| I like all lenghts, but I tend to prefer songs between 5 and 10 minutes (about 7.30 to be exact). |
Posted By: yarstruly
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 12:26
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I'd say most often the mini-epics seem to work best for me, but a well executed epic is great! ------------- Facebook hashtags: #100greatestprogrockchallenge #scottssongbysong #scottsspotlight |
Posted By: SirPsycho388
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 12:47
I agree. True Epics are risky and there's too many expectations for them. Long songs & mini epics usually are the best - they usually have a lot of good composition and songwriting in them without overdoing it and stretching the song out just to get the time up. But I still like short songs... although some are bland, there are others that are truly great - especially with The Beatles.  ------------- Strangers passing in the street by chance two separate glances meet and I am you and what I see is me. And do I take you by the hand and lead you through the land and help me understand the best I can |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 12:54
| It doesn't really matter to me at all. The length of a song is not that important, as long as it is written and performed well. On the other hand, there are tracks that just go on too long... a prime example being many Dream Theater songs, which start out OK, but very often end up being exercises in self-indulgence (sorry guys, that's not a cheap provocation, but my real, serious opinion on the matter...). |
Posted By: lightbulb_son
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 13:12
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No one voted for 0-5 Come on people NAPALM DEATH!!!
 My vote goes for mini-epics, with true epics second, and long songs third. ------------- When the world is sick Can't no one be well But I dreamt we were all beautiful and strong 
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Posted By: Abstrakt
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 13:16
"Mini Epics" rule!
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Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 13:45
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It depends on the song and the artist.
------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: Open-Mind
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 14:27
Agree ------------- "I'm on a roll, I'm on a roll this time, I feel my luck could change.. " |
Posted By: MattiR
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 14:50
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Posted By: Hermanes
Date Posted: August 31 2006 at 15:51
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As crappy spam learns : 'Size matters' I enjoy extreme long songs. I think many bands make their best efforts to compose a 'magnus opus'. Tonight: Renaissance Live (Sheherazade + Ashes are burning 29 + 24 min) Porcupine Tree (The sky moves sideways 18 + 16 min) Frost (Milliontown over 23 min) Hermannnnn... |
Posted By: BiGi
Date Posted: September 01 2006 at 04:26
I have to go with the flow and say that "it depends" 
My preferred tracks usually clock between 7 and 12 minutes...long epics in the long run bore the hell out of me! There are obvious exceptions (DT's Octavarium, Yes' Gates of Delirium, TFK's The Truth will set you free, Genesis' Supper's Ready)...and also when it comes to shorter songs there are many that are outstanding (my preferred group is The Beatles, and they must have recorded not more than 15 songs over 4 minutes long...and just four over 6 minutes, if you call Revolution #9 a song...) ------------- A flower? 
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Posted By: toolis
Date Posted: September 01 2006 at 06:50
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depends... i can easily get bored by a short track and if a 20' epic is great, like Tarkus, i feel sorry that it ended... |
Posted By: Ed_The_Dead
Date Posted: September 01 2006 at 09:23
True, True, I find myself enjoying those tracks over 15 mins most. I just love a good +20mins epic... ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ed_the_dead/?chartstyle=asimpleblue5"> 
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Posted By: willy
Date Posted: September 01 2006 at 12:43
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Length doesnt matter. The complexity, creativity and talent poured into a song is what counts.
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Posted By: Seyo
Date Posted: September 01 2006 at 15:50
Well, first of all, I like good music and good songs, no matter if they are 30 seconds or 30 minutes... You can't judge music by that way, it's not the long jump competition!
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Posted By: reality
Date Posted: September 01 2006 at 17:22
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I was watching the first episode of the american TV show Miami Vice the other day and it came to the part when Ol' Phil Collins "In The Air Tonight" was on and Sonny was about to get in his car, then suddenly that drum roll hits as the lights from the hot Miami street reflect off of the front of his speeding black car! Just plain cool!
My point is that section was about thirty seconds long and the drum roll about three and yet it is implanted in my brain forever. And the feeling invoked with a hint of the tune can last a very long time after watching\hearing it.
As for Beatles tunes, they may be 4:00 minutes long but some of them contain such compacted content and loaded emotion that it is hours worth of music in 4:00 minutes.
It is like the difference between a good short poem and bad long prose. The prose may ramble on explaining everything with as many words as there is and realy lack in substantial content; while a good short poem uses only necassary words but they are perfectly placed within the structure and stuffed to the brink with meaning and emotion, while the prose may be longer in lenghth, the short poem is substancialy longer in content and ideas and emotion.
For me the joy of listining is not the sound that makes my ear drums vibrate, it is how my mind interprets the sound as well as the ideas and emotions conveyed in the tune.
I am impressed when someone can write an epic song that is under 4:00 minutes but few can do that. When it needs to take longer that is also good (just as standerd prose or long poetry can be good) but when it gets to excess or just rambles for no reason it is not good music.
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Posted By: Moekk
Date Posted: September 03 2006 at 19:50
| stupid question, cause a songlength has nothing to say about the quality of a song. So there cant be a prefered songlenght |
Posted By: eduardossc
Date Posted: September 08 2006 at 04:58
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I don't think lenght is important. I used to check the lenght at the back of every album right away. Sometimes that is a clue to know about the quality of an album. Nowadays, I don't care.
If short songs were a flaw, Gentle Giant would be a bad band, and they are great. Many of their songs are fairly short, but still, show way more ideas than any song in tales from topographic oceans. Take anything in Octopus for example.
There may be hundreds of small pointless songs around as well. As any small song in THE WALL that seem to be nothing but introduction notes with only one idea.
I find the best written songs within the 8 - 12 minutes of lenght. It feels like that's the perfect space to present clear ideas, evolve them, show a climax and keep the momentum at the top. Examples are everywhere.
A "true epic" may also become a true filler: All Tales of topographic, Dogs, Sheep, Pigs (last three with only 3 to 6 real minutes of original music, the rest, either being filler or copy paste), Echoes, Atom, Close to the edge (With middle section as filler and the second part identical to the first).
We'll find magnificent well written, colorful and full of imagination epics such as Supper's, Thick as a Brick, Shine and Tarkus.
My point is, the music has to fulfill some requirements to be good. These are: Creativity, originality, feeling, passion, imagination, songwriting, energy....But lenght?....Anyone can turn a 5 minutes song into a 20 song. Ask YES and Floyd who were able to write at least 6 or 7 with only one true idea in mind, the rest.....Copy-paste and random notes with no purpose whatsoever.
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Posted By: daz2112
Date Posted: September 10 2006 at 16:13
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15+ love the epics! ------------- In the constellation of cygnus,There lurks a mysterious force...The black hole |
Posted By: Benjamin_Breeg
Date Posted: September 10 2006 at 16:16
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mini epics rulez =) ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Dream_Thief_/?chartstyle=Geldropdown2"> 
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Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: September 10 2006 at 16:20
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Prefered length is between 6 and 9 minutes.
the best songs usually are a bit longer running up to 25 minutes, but most songs of that length will get boring at some points. ------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: September 10 2006 at 16:20
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how long is a piece of string?
15+ minute epics are the essence of Prog - no other genre (except classical or jazz) would get away with that!
-------------  Prog Archives Tour Van 
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Posted By: Jochem
Date Posted: September 10 2006 at 19:43
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I choose 15+. Lot's of songs on my favorite song list are 15+. my top 10 alone has
Pink Floyd - Echoes
Tool - Disposition/Reflection/Triad
Edge of Sanity - Crimson
Tool - Wings for Marie
I - Meshuggah
Dogs - Pink Floyd
those are already 6 songs over 15 minutes with some over 20 and Crimson being 40 minutes so yea. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Jochempie/?chartstyle=basic10"> 
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Posted By: Mandrakeroot
Date Posted: September 11 2006 at 05:13
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1) Mini epics
2) Long songs
3) True Epics
4) Short songs ------------- 
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Posted By: NecroManiac
Date Posted: September 11 2006 at 19:56
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I've always respected and admired true epics that can hold me interested enough to finish, and I tend to get easily lost in them. So I voted that. But Mini epics are not far behind. Long songs and short songs sometimes bug me though, for they tend to either be too long or too short.... ------------- 
What's yer faovrite album? =^_^= |
Posted By: k_crimson
Date Posted: September 12 2006 at 16:53
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i tend to like the 7+ minute songs. KC songs like 21CSM and Epitaph wouldn't be the same if they were shorter. Some just need to be stretched out like that to be great. ------------- "the wall on which the prophets wrote is cracking at the seams." |
Posted By: Taril
Date Posted: September 12 2006 at 23:02
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I prefer the 10 - 15 minute range songs. But really I like anything as long as its not under 4 minutes. Cause usualy stuff under 4, or 5 minutes is pop, or the like. Not always, but alot of the time. ------------- Bright Ambassadors of Morning |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: September 12 2006 at 23:17
i guess since most of my favorite bands (minus Gentle Giant and Rush) play a lot of 10-15 minute songs, i guess ill go with that one, but i dont care as long as the music is good  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm 
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Posted By: yesfan88
Date Posted: September 15 2006 at 20:14
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I voted for mini-epics, but many of my favorite songs are longer. It's just that there are a lot more mini-epics, so there are a lot of good mini-epics. ------------- "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"- Evelyn Beatrice Hall |
Posted By: pinkyfloydyfan
Date Posted: October 15 2006 at 23:08
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I prefer longs WHEN it's so good!
BUT, it gives less interest when the group lost themselves with no direction, no unity. I don't like free jazz or free rock, it's cacophony, a big mess for me.
Talk about Supper's Ready! Gates! Echoes! Shine on! Close! Think what it can give with a 70 minutes of that!
Is there a song about that long, now? (70 minutes?) I don't tink so... ------------- We are pilgrims!
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Posted By: Nowhere Man
Date Posted: October 15 2006 at 23:21
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I definately like my songs on the longish side. 8+ minutes. It's one of the things that attracts me to prog greatly. A longer song can have a lot more depth and style than a short one. Not that I don't like songs that are short. I actually find the mere 30 second long "Stop" from The Wall enjoyable.
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