Help me out
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Forum Name: Music and Musicians Exchange
Forum Description: Talk with and get feedback from other musicians on the site
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28749
Printed Date: July 19 2025 at 22:54
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Topic: Help me out
Posted By: sonic_mat
Subject: Help me out
Date Posted: September 18 2006 at 18:54
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Okay I am trying to write a prog rock song and I can't figure out where to start! Please give me some info. I would really appreciate it thanks! ------------- _/\_M*A*T*H*E*W_/\_ Hardware.... Epiphone Les paul custom Takimine classical guitar Yamaha Acoustic 30 watt Marshall with effects Andre Dardeau Flute |
Replies:
Posted By: Vodkagunblast
Date Posted: September 18 2006 at 20:14
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Mentally map out the progression of the piece. Figure out "high" and "low" points, the spacing of the soundscape and sort of emotional flagstones that occur along the way.
An easy way to actually go about writing the music is to write out the song completely rhythmically. Go about constructing the drums first, because rhythm is obviously an incredibly important component, and harmony/melody can be more easily constructed when a rhythmic framework is already in place. From there bass is an easy second instrument, and at that point the rest should begin to fall into place. |
Posted By: sonic_mat
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 15:21
THANK YOU SO MUCH! ------------- _/\_M*A*T*H*E*W_/\_ Hardware.... Epiphone Les paul custom Takimine classical guitar Yamaha Acoustic 30 watt Marshall with effects Andre Dardeau Flute |
Vodkagunblast wrote:Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 16:19
| Write some lyrics based on Lord Of The Rings, then set them to music. Make it a double CD concept with a Roger Dean cover and wait for the cash to roll in. |
Posted By: sularetal
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 17:28
 It might have worked 30 years ago... |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: September 19 2006 at 17:40
I disagree - drums can be put in last - indeed, they should be, as thay are non-tonal, and all they do is add rhythmic emphasis to the music. Rhythm is only one of the 5 elements of music, so it is no more important than the other 4 - indeed, it can be seen as secondary, particularly in rock music. Start with a SONG - write on the guitar or piano, whichever is easist (writing songs using almost any other instrument is hard). Bass will do - it's just as important as any instrument that can actually be used for writing songs with - but it's NOT an easy instrument at all, as any bassist will tell you. Songs START with a melody - don't just let one fall into place, as that is sloppy composition. Harmony likewise - you should start with a tune you like, and develop it, then consider harmonic progressions that work well with that tune. If the song should be long and progressive, then make it so - if it shouldn't, then don't force it. Once your melody and harmony is taking shape (rhythm will fall into place naturally, so DON'T worry about it), concentrate on FORM, the most important thing of all. Form means changes in melody, harmony and possibly rhythm to construct new musical passages which together make up the whole piece. DON'T map it out. Let it develop naturally - unless you have sudden and specific ideas about how you'd like to map it out - but you'll probably change this. Planning music is tantamount to bureacracy, so don't do it unless you're working on some kind of college assignment in which you have to. Once you've got your form worked out, figure out which TIMBRES you want - orchestrate as you will; maybe the piece is only for voice and piano or guitar and bass. THEN start playing around with rhythms! 
------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 07:39
Glass Hammer did it last year, not sure about the cash rolling in though.
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Posted By: sonic_mat
Date Posted: September 20 2006 at 15:17
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I need help writing the bass and drum line.
I don't know how
Sorry guys
Thanks though!  ------------- _/\_M*A*T*H*E*W_/\_ Hardware.... Epiphone Les paul custom Takimine classical guitar Yamaha Acoustic 30 watt Marshall with effects Andre Dardeau Flute |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: September 21 2006 at 07:38
| Tricky, the bass in a lot of prog songs is played more like a lead (e.g. Chris Squire) and doesn't always play the traditional bass role. All I can suggest is that you listen to some of the typical prog rhythm sections (Peart/Lee, Bruford/Squire etc) and try to pick up some ideas. |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: September 22 2006 at 03:41
Depends what you're trying to do, and which styles you're trying to use or fuse 
Writing the bass line first is probably harder, but will give a more positive direction for the drums to follow. If you're an absolute bass novice, then start simply with one root note for each beat. Once this is established, you can revisit each musical phrase and decide whether to change some root notes for the 3rd, the 5th and so on. For example, if a chord is C major, you might decide to use E as the bass note in order to destabilise the harmonic feel - but try to avoid using the same note in other parts, as doubled 3rds always make for weak harmony. A more jazzy alternative might be to use the 6th as the bass note - but don't overuse this one! You will find that bass lines that tend to move in contrary motion to melody lines sound strongest, but bass lines that move in unison with melody lines or in parallel 5ths or 4ths sound weak. Bass lines almost always work in a walking style - steps in a scale or arpeggio - or in simple grooves. Listen to the great basslines of Lemmy, Pete Trewavas and JJ Burnell. None of these players are flashy or particularly virtuosic, but their feel for the potential of the bass instrument is strong, melodic and rhythmic. Once you have the basic bass line in place, it's time to add runs here and there for extra motion. Bass runs are effective in the middle and at the end of phrases - but again, experimentation will give you lots of ideas. Like everything else, don't overuse it or it will sound too busy. Now things get interesting! Once the bass line has been established - hopefully with a nice melody all of its own in order to keep it interesting to performer and listener - you can work on rhythm. Bass lends itself exceptionally well to rhythmic subtleties, and you will find, once you've played your bass line a few times, that a slight shift in rhythm here and there, making a note slightly earlier or later, will give greater colour or emphasis to the rest of the music Bass is absolutely brilliant at this, which is why I say it's not a simple thing to master. Once the bass line is "complete" (mine always stay in Development Hell for months!), the drums should fall into place. But you may need to get a drummer to point out the subtleties of this area! I hope this is helpful - I always try to answer technical questions with clarity, but when the question is as broad as this, I can only really make suggestions. Please continue to ask questions if there's anything you don't understand - and remember, music is a feeling. The best way to write is as you feel it. ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |