Thanks for Iron Maiden - Megadeth
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Suggest New Bands and Artists
Forum Description: Suggest, create polls, and classify new bands you would like included on Prog Archives
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29306
Printed Date: April 29 2025 at 00:22
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Thanks for Iron Maiden - Megadeth
Posted By: Liquid Len
Subject: Thanks for Iron Maiden - Megadeth
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 16:49
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Long overdue....can we have Megadeth now????? ------------- Can you tell me where my country lies? |
Replies:
Posted By: Uther
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 16:54
Uhmmmm this is like a snow ball... ------------- What! can the devil speak true? Macbeth, 1. 3 |
Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 16:56
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Shouldn't this be in the proto-prog/progrelated lounge.
------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Posted By: akin
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 16:56
| Yes, it will certainly start to affect the reputation of the website. |
Posted By: yesfan88
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 16:56
I don't understand why either would be even be considered prog-related  ------------- "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"- Evelyn Beatrice Hall |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 16:58
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I thought this was a joke.
"Number of the Beast", a Masterpiece of Prog Rock? PULL THE OTHER ONE!!! 
Cert out. ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 17:11
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If people are asking for Megadeath, next it will be Metallica, then it will be Korn then it will be the Sex Pistols!! Why not stop while we're ahead. ------------- |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 17:16
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Yeah, let's add Megadeth, Sabbath, Metallica hell, let's let everyone in!
Number Of The Beast is in my top ten favorite albums ever but on this site I wouldn't give it more than 2 stars.
This is not Good Music Archives. If it was my decision I would keep it prog and get rid of prog related alltogether.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 17:19
Proto and prog related were instituted at the behest of the site owners,it's what THEY want,and it's their site. It really doesn't get any simpler than that Ansen. -------------  |
The Miracle wrote:Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 17:19
no - a Masterpiece of PROG RELATED!
 -------------  Prog Archives Tour Van 
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Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 17:22
only if they're Prog Related Mr.Miracle - Prog Related is a valid section IMO.
 ------------- Prog Archives Tour Van
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Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 17:24
in a positive light, i trust!
 ------------- Prog Archives Tour Van
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Posted By: Uther
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 17:27
only if they're Prog Related Mr.Miracle - Prog Related is a valid section IMO.
Well...personal taste bear anything
not even me...just i began/continue a discussion about zep, nothing more...
This addition seems to the Vatican's procedures about some "saint" applicants
 ------------- What! can the devil speak true? Macbeth, 1. 3 |
Posted By: Liquid Len
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 17:31
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How a band like the Beatles or Be Bop Deluxe (although I love BBD) can be here, but not Megadeth is beyond me!
Listen to 'Countdown' it's a tad more Prog related than Please Please Me! ------------- Can you tell me where my country lies? |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 17:32
I will agree with one thing...Rust in Peace by Megadeth is definitely prog metal related. ------------- |
Posted By: Liquid Len
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 17:34
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Oh and I forgot to mention the 'Prog' related Kate Bush!
------------- Can you tell me where my country lies? |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 17:35
Can we add Europe? 
They have super nifty keyboards.
 ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 17:39
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Hey, I've thought that Sabbath should be here in a Proto-Metal category. Anyway, it seems that several Prog reviewers disagree with Maiden only being in the Prog-Related category (that is if I understand the ratings system properly) as several of their albums have been rated 5 stars (Essential: a masterpiece of progressive music). I've never thought of Maiden as Prog to any extent, but I wouldn't argue with those who are more knowledgeable about Heavy Metal than I. I do know that they were influenced by prog and Prog-related bands like Yes, Uriah Heep, and Deep Purple. So they are related (the question always is how closely related to the Prog movement a band is). Obviously people who chose Iron Maiden for inclusion knew that it would be controversial (even though they played it safer by placing them under Prog-Related) and must have sweat over this decision for a long time -- but bit the bullet because they felt it was a necessary step for this site to remain progressive (at least when it comes to metal). I have wondered if metal may have an easier time of it these days at this site. It is setting a precedent... Metallica, Black Sabbath, and many others will have to be included at some time now. I can't wait for Spinal Tap to be included! Way to be progressive, Progarchives! And I do hope Led Zep will find it's way here (maybe someday as Proto-Prog Related since I think you're going to need more subgenres). And a Progressive Hair Metal category -- can't wait for that! |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 17:43
This is a glaring problem and I'm glad you reminded me of it. How is any reviewer supposed to logically give 5 stars to a semi-prog album when the criteria for a 5 star album on this site is that the album must be a masterpiece in the prog genre?
The only way to fix this is to change the rating system for all prog-related albums. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Uther
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 17:44
Spinal Tap????????????Heheeh good humour man 
------------- What! can the devil speak true? Macbeth, 1. 3 |
Posted By: Bryan
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 17:44
| Funny how you guys all chose to stay quiet when hordes of people were expressing their outrage at Maiden not being listed yet and waited until we'd already gone ahead with including them to say anything. |
Posted By: Liquid Len
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 17:45
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Stonebeard, you said;
"This is a glaring problem and I'm glad you reminded me of it. How is any reviewer supposed to logically give 5 stars to a semi-prog album when the criteria for a 5 star album on this site is that the album must be a masterpiece in the prog genre?" Do you think that the rating system should be changed for Neo-Prog? I do. ------------- Can you tell me where my country lies? |
Posted By: Uther
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 17:45
Absolutly right!  ------------- What! can the devil speak true? Macbeth, 1. 3 |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 17:49
Neo Prog = within the confines of prog music
Prog Related = related to prog
And, yes, Neo-Prog should have another Rating system:
5 Stars: Masterpiece of progressive music
5 Stars: Masterpiece of progressive music
5 Stars: Masterpiece of progressive music
5 Stars: Masterpiece of progressive music
5 Stars: Masterpiece of progressive music
 ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Liquid Len
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 17:54
LOL very good Hate Neo myself. Who told that guy in Pendragon or Fish that they could sing? 
------------- Can you tell me where my country lies? |
Posted By: sularetal
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 17:58
| ^ Thats totally subjective! |
Posted By: Mandrakeroot
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 17:59
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"SOMEWHERE IN TIME" AND "/th SON OF A 7th SON" ARE ALONE A SYMPHONIC POWER METAL ALBUMS!!!
AND MEGADETH IS ALONE A BAY AREA TRASH METAL BAND!!! ------------- 
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Posted By: sularetal
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 18:06
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By the miracle: http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/6647/untitledjd3.jpg - http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/6647/untitledjd3.jpg brilliant!!!
I don't really care about IM's addition. I just thought it was too risky adding them....
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 18:20
Yes indeed. Or change the rating system altogether for all genres and lose the progressive music criteria. Later Genesis, for example, albums of course which as part of their discography aren't under Prog-Related, yet no matter how good one might find them, they can't be given more than a 3 star rating according to the guidelines (unless one thinks the albums are full-blown Prog of course). I imagine they were using that rating system before they brought in Prog-Related. I seem to remember that from my early days using PA as a reference site. It is problematic, and can be confusing, and I do think a different ratings system is in order. If someone thinks an Iron Maiden album is a masterpiece, while recognising that it's not recognised as full-blown Prog, it seems odd to have to give it less than 4 stars. It ceases to be an easy-to-follow and useful guide for the viewers and reviewers when you're rating albums you think great with less than stellar marks. I'll be interested to read from the reviewers how they determined their ratings -- whether they consider certain Iron Maiden albums to be more than Prog-Related, or if they were disregarding those criteria for ratings evaluation. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 18:27
And Spinal Tap Mark II (Jazz Odyssey) almost deserve to be here under Jazz-Rock Fusion http://www.rutles.org/ - . |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 18:32
All those photoshopped pics do is fan the flames of controversy.Like we need any more of that. Thanks Ansen. ------------- |
Posted By: Asyte2c00
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 19:40
For Bands WHO Are Prog Related. If anyone is Judas Priest buff like myself, you are aware of the "Winter-Deep Freeze-Winter Retreat-Cheater" song on their debut album Rocka Rolla. That is progressive song, but it certainly does make JP eligible for inclusion into Prog Related.
In short, the definition of "Progressive Rock" has adopted a Federlist interpretation.
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Posted By: CatharticFrost
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 19:48
| Iron Maiden was added but Coroner wasn't? ZOMG they used keyboards on a few songs! |
Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 19:57
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I don´t have any problem with Maiden being Prog Related. @Asyte2c00-I also consider myself a Priest buff... "Rock a Rolla" and "Sad Wings of destiny" are definitely prog related, actually most of their seventies output, including "Sin after sin" and "Stained Class"
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Posted By: Barla
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 20:02
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Oh, no ! It was a big surprise to see Iron Maiden on PA.
Iron Maiden is not Prog, IMO, but I say this: if they were added, so we've got a long list of bands to add here too (Metallica, Megadeth, Cradle Of Filth, etc etc etc etc) ...
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Barla/?chartstyle=LastfmMyspace">  
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Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 20:05
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Their addition here under Prog Related does not mean they are prog,and no one is saying they are prog.
--------------------------- Prog Related Prog Related definition Rock and Pop Bands and Artists after 1970 who were not truly “prog” (as that term is generally and broadly defined, even by the site), but who were clearly not “mainstream” or simply “rock” bands. A wide subgenre that encompasses two kinds of bands/artist, that either consist of progressive artist that strayed away from their progressive roots into mainstream rock or were influenced by progressive rock. Even though the music by these artists is sometimes unrelated it had things in common with prog music in that it was very structured and even adventurous, sometimes hard or heavy, sometimes mellow, strong melodies, good hooks are an integral part of most of the material. Sometimes these artists pioneered other rock genres. Though most of these artist can't really be considered progressive themselves, their relation to progressive music is not to be underestimated. --------------------------- Honestly.....how hard is that to understand? ------------- |
Posted By: Uther
Date Posted: October 02 2006 at 21:22
I told you...thiswould be a snow ball....of heavy metal applicants  ------------- What! can the devil speak true? Macbeth, 1. 3 |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: October 03 2006 at 03:05
I have NEVER been quiet about pooh-poohing any silly ideas about adding Iron Maiden. Everyone is right - Metallica, Megadeth, Cradle of Filth, Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, Judas Priest, Dio, Rainbow, Raven, Bakerloo, Diamond Head, Dimmu Borgir, Behemoth, Angel Dust, Helloween et al should be in Prog-Related if Maiden are - and so should LTJ Bukem, William Orbit, the Prodigy, Paul van Dyk, Bad Company, Chicane, the Orb, Keane, Coldplay, Augustus Pablo, Autechre, Cabaret Voltaire, Visage and loads of others that I'm too lazy to list. Welcome to Music Archives! ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 03 2006 at 03:26
I don't think it's a matter of understanding - most people understand, but it's simply hard for them to *accept* it. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to: 
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Posted By: Liquid Len
Date Posted: October 03 2006 at 07:17
A more subjective post would be hard to imagine, in fact this post adds nothing at all to the debate! ------------- Can you tell me where my country lies? |
Posted By: John Gargo
Date Posted: October 03 2006 at 07:37
Iron Maiden have a lot more prog-connections than Megadeth, that's just silly. I read the RUN TO THE HILLS band biography and Bruce Dickinson, and especially Steve Harris, were both very into the prog scene. Harris names Foxtrot and Aqualung as big inspirations, and Dickinson is a big Deep Purple and Van Der Graaf Generator fan (a solo song has the lyric "H to He" and I wonder how many metalheads actually got that reference  ).
Anyway, it wasn't until SEVENTH SON OF A SEVENTH SON that these progressive influences began to really effect the band's sound in a big way (although, back to about PIECE OF MIND, the songs began to have extended song structures, instrumental passages, and different "movements"), and while the band took a break for NO PRAYER FOR THE DYING and FEAR OF THE DARK, THE X-FACTOR is a return to the prog stuff... their new trilogy with Bruce Dickinson is a strong return to the prog-influenced metal (not prog metal, per say) style, with perhaps MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH having the most pronounced prog flourishes.
Truthfully, though, I'm quite surprised to see that they've been included. I'm not complaining though...
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: October 03 2006 at 08:07
I think you'd better consider this as your opinion, because I can garantee you that it is less and less the case. Yes, they created those proto and related categories, but they did not foresee the misuse of those categories.
While I do not think the proto category is such a problem and I even think that IM being added to prog-related is wiser than progmetal, there are other trying to introduce Zep and Bowie. Can we get serious about this, please. And enough with with this easy way out to say it is the owner's wish to do so.
Some of these inclusions are not only upsetting some members and collabs, but also admins (at least in terms of the aggressive actions/reactions) and even owners.
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Selkie
Date Posted: October 03 2006 at 15:08
| If we like it, then it must be prog, right? |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: October 03 2006 at 15:15
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Speaking as a layman, it's not worth getting worked up about. Progarchives is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get. I happen to look at a huge amount of rock bands/artists as Prog-related (just depends on how related). |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: October 04 2006 at 00:40
It's not MY opinion.The owners wanted those categories here to make the site more inclusive,that's a FACT. I was an outspoken critic of those categories when they were introduced,for the very reason you said in your post...misuse.I knew that would happen. ------------- |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: October 04 2006 at 03:38
I trust you did not think I was aiming particularly at you for the recent unrest, here
! Because I am notActually I was mostly referring that the misuse is pissing VIP people off; but the link for adding bands is probably distributed a bit too widely (and wildely
).------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Tuzvihar
Date Posted: October 04 2006 at 09:53
But the name of this site is Prog Archives! This implies that if a band is included here then it's prog. To avoid this implication you should visibly separate proto-prog and prog related from the true prog content - separate listings, separate ratings and maybe even separate sites. BTW, I don't know Iron Maiden so I don't comment on this particular case. ------------- "Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent." Charles Bukowski |
Posted By: Tuzvihar
Date Posted: October 04 2006 at 09:54
But they didn't create it only for themselves, did they? ------------- "Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent." Charles Bukowski |
Posted By: epifreak
Date Posted: October 04 2006 at 22:11
Yes and then no. That is an extremely subjective post; you are right; however, I'd argue that it has to add something to the debate, seeing as how it marks the first post in nearly 2 pages that was remotely related to the original thread topic. The original post was not asking for discussion on the relevance of the prog-related category; whether IM belonged on the archives; whether we were observing a snowball effect that would lead to the inclusion of Metallica, Korn, Linkin Park, or Spinal tap; or or whether the proto-prog and prog-related categories have been/are being abused. It asked about the inclusion of Megadeth into the prog-related category. Anyway, back on topic, I'd say no. Megadeth is a great band, and deserves every bit of credit that they get, but they aren't a progressive band. You could make a weak case for their inclusion by mentioning songs, such as Holy Wars/Punishment Due or Polaris; however, the vast majority of the band's material is composed of basic thrash metal - Really good thrash metal - but thrash metal nonetheless. |
Posted By: enteredwinter
Date Posted: October 04 2006 at 22:44
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I completely agree with epifreak. This site has become reallly contentious recently on the topic of what bands to include and what not to include. Personally, the only thing that ever bothers me is the exclusion of bands that pretty clearly should be here (i.e. Mastodon, which were recently cleared to be included). As far as Megadeth, all I can say is: what?!? While Maiden often makes complex, long songs with synths, multiple-guitar harmony, etc. (thereby making them fit into prog-related and not prog, exactly where they are now) ... Megadeth doesn't do anything remotely prog, generally. This is coming from someone who is a huge fan of Megadeth. They are probably in my top-10-bands list, but .... they're thrash metal, plain and simple. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 05 2006 at 01:55
So you're saying that Megadeth don't have complex, long songs with complex harmony, rhythm changes, epic concept etc. ? Ok, they don't have synths. But who cares? The real problem is that the inclusion of Iron Maiden lowered the standards for prog-related so much that the addition of Megadeth becomes relatively straightforward. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Uther
Date Posted: October 05 2006 at 15:21
Hehe yea, i think IM went down the wrong way to me
way down (standard)that's making me cought
!!!! btw IM long songs? i don't know anyone
------------- What! can the devil speak true? Macbeth, 1. 3 |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 05 2006 at 15:32
Iron Maiden long songs? How about Rime of the Ancient Mariner?
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Uther
Date Posted: October 05 2006 at 15:41
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Maybe the one and only one....enough to think IM are prog ------------- What! can the devil speak true? Macbeth, 1. 3 |
Posted By: Bryan
Date Posted: October 05 2006 at 16:38
Not to mention Alexander the Great, Seventh Son of a Seventh Son, Sign of the Cross and a pretty sizeable portion of the tracks on their new album. I'm sure there are more, but not really being a fan of their music I can't name them offhand. |
Posted By: epifreak
Date Posted: October 05 2006 at 20:09
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You asked for epics? Okay, for the purposes of this, I'll list anything 7 minutes or longer. The list won't be exhaustive, as I lack a few albums (especially their newest one, which I hear has several epics on it), nor will it be in any particular order, but it should give you a good feel for their longer tracks: Rime of the Ancient Mariner Sign of the Cross Dream of Mirrors The Clansman The Nomad Dance of Death Alexander the Great Paschendale The Thin Line Between Love and Hate Fear of the Dark Caught Somewhere in Time Hallowed be thy Name No More Lies Heaven Can Wait Blood Brothers Journeyman The last couple barely clock in over 7 minutes, but they do make my arbitrary 7-minute mark. Also, it is possible that some of these make the list because they're longer when played live than in studio. I didn't bother filtering the live stuff out. It is a good bet, however, that these represent the longer of Maiden's songs, as the band isn't known for jamming out too often in concert. |
Posted By: SolariS
Date Posted: October 08 2006 at 15:49
Prog-related is NOT prog! Why is everyone so anal about this category. By putting iron maiden in prog related, no one is saying that they are a prog band! Yes, they did some prog things here and there. That's why they're related to progressive rock. Is anyone going to try to deny that they did some prog stuff with their music?...no? ok, then why are we having this discussion at all? Queen -> not prog The Beatles -> not prog Peter Gabriel -> not prog Kate Bush -> not prog Phish -> not prog All these bands are listed under prog-related. None of them are prog. So, why does everyone care so much that Iron Maiden is listed. I personally don't like them, but I'm tired of hearing hypocritical people bash one band's inclusion into prog-related simply because they don't like them. I understand that a LOT of people here like Iron Maiden, and it's nice that they get to review and discuss Maiden's albums. Stop being classification nazi's on such an open category like 'prog-related'. -------------  
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