Art Rock - King Crimson

Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Music Lounge
Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30174
Printed Date: August 20 2025 at 22:20
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com

Topic: Art Rock - King Crimson

Posted By: Cynic
Subject: Art Rock - King Crimson
Date Posted: October 22 2006 at 09:16

" http://www.progarchives.com/subgenre.asp?style=3 -

Art Rock

Art Rock definition

Not a sub-genre, as much as a category. Bands included in Art Rock may have very few things in common, other than the fact that they are all 100% Progressive Rock bands.

The term Art Rock has evolved from being synonymous with Progressive Rock in the early 70's, to being considered the borderline between Progressive Rock and mainstream in the 90's. However, the term has changed again with the new century, and below are the characteristics of the bands that will be included in this category:

1.     100% Prog bands
2.     Bands that are beyond the limits of the sub-genre parameters, or
3.     Bands that have evolved so much throughout their career, that they crossed different sub-genres without any single sub-genre being pre-eminent, or
4.     Bands that have characteristics of two or more different sub-genres and can't be reasonably classified in either, or
5.     Bands that are one of a kind, and for that reason can't be included as part of any sub-genre.

(The main difference with Prog-Related is that in this second category the bands included are not usually accepted as Prog bands, or are simply non Prog bands that have influenced or been influenced by the genre.)

Prog Archives accepts that this is a very generic category, but we believe it is necessary to avoid creating endless sub-genres for each eclectic band that appears.

Iván Melgar Morey - Perú"

Okay my question is why king crimson is added here... It is because they have evolved throughout their career, correct?

Replies:

Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: October 22 2006 at 09:25

King Crimson are one of the principal and quintessential examples for Art Rock, in my opinion. They've dedicated music, knowledge, sense, effort and spirit to many side of composition and of music exploration, however deep or however simple, however abstract or however concrete, over the entire years. Their meanins thus is the equivalent of many things and the intention of many directions. Being absolutely and fundamentally prog, they fit no more, no less that excelent in the Art Rock multitude of shapes, nuances and...et caetera.

(Robert Fripp himself is named various Shocked

)

-------------

Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: October 22 2006 at 13:09

King Crimson are very hard to classify. Art Rock is a pretty inclusive category, and I'm happy with them being there. Where would you want them?

Posted By: alan_pfeifer
Date Posted: October 22 2006 at 14:22

I've always considered them an Art Rock band. It's rock music made for the artist by the artist.

Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: October 22 2006 at 15:03

King Crimson's music has moved across many sub-genres of prog making them impossible to pin down exactly as to what kind of music they play, so Art rock is the best place to put them.

-------------
Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005

Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 22 2006 at 15:12

Art rock for KC is fine but I would have to say they are a *progressive* rock band, mainly because I don't find them particularly 'arty'-- they are a *rock* band with a capital R rather than the artists considered 'art rock' such as Eno, solo Fripp, etc. In a way, 'art' rock is too tame a phrase for them. They are HEAVY, baby, heavy.

Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: October 22 2006 at 16:16

KC are "hard"-prog, art-rock refers to bands that are on the frontier between pop-rock and prog-rock, like Supertramp, Roxy Music, 10CC, Kate Bush, Manfred Mann's earthband... I don't see the connection between those bands and King Crimson

-------------
"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)

Posted By: omri
Date Posted: October 22 2006 at 16:18

I'll say again what I have allready said. If moving through many sub-genres is the case then Pink floyd should be no' 1 in this category. Moving from psychadelia (SFOS, Ummagumma) to Symphonic (AHM, WYWH, Animals) to prog related (The wall, TFC) and more they are more versatile than any band I know (maybe except JT but they have allways their unique sound).

I do'nt care where you put KC but you should be consistent with your definitions.

-------------
omri

Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: October 22 2006 at 16:18

lucas wrote:

art-rock refers to bands that are on the frontier between pop-rock and prog-rock

what?!

perhaps Prog-Related is the entended subgenre for such a description.

-------------

Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: October 22 2006 at 16:19

At several spots in their career, they would have fit comfortably into several of the spots; the first album is an early Symphonic album (IMO). The next line-up, while not quite fusion, was definately jazz-rock. The Wetton-Cross lineup is perhaps the definitave art rock band.

3. Bands that have evolved so much throughout their career, that they crossed different sub-genres without any single sub-genre being pre-eminent

There you go.

-------------

Posted By: Arrrghus
Date Posted: October 22 2006 at 16:19

"Art Rock" is now used when a band does not fit beneath any category entirely!

Crimson could be symphonic, avant-garde, prog metal, etc.

Definitions change with the time, people (and hopefully your socks, too).

-------------

Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: October 22 2006 at 17:00

I think most of us will agree on one thing though: Whatever it is, it's very good!

Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: October 22 2006 at 17:11

lucas wrote:

KC are "hard"-prog, art-rock refers to bands that are on the frontier between pop-rock and prog-rock, like Supertramp, Roxy Music, 10CC, Kate Bush, Manfred Mann's earthband... I don't see the connection between those bands and King Crimson

Other bands in the vein of KC that belong to the "hard-prog" subgenre : VDGG and Anekdoten. A music dominated by a tortured atmosphere, you can see clearly that they have nothing to see with the cheerfullness of bands like BJH, 10CC, Supertramp or Roxy Music. A subgenre close to Art-rock is art-pop, blending pop with prog, with artists such as Kate Bush, Dalbello, kristeen young, david bowie, tori amos... The only site to use the tag "art-pop" is the excellent german prog site 'babyblaue prog seiten'. here is the list of the bands classified under this label : http://www.babyblaue-seiten.de/index.php?content=list&genrecont=4&left=newReviews2&top=reviews - http://www.babyblaue-seiten.de/index.php?content=list&genrecont=4&left=newReviews2&top=reviews they don't seem to make a difference between art-rock and art-pop.

-------------
"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)

Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: October 22 2006 at 18:31

Ricochet wrote:

King Crimson are one of the principal and quintessential examples for Art Rock, in my opinion. They've dedicated music, knowledge, sense, effort and spirit to many side of composition and of music exploration, however deep or however simple, however abstract or however concrete, over the entire years. Their meanins thus is the equivalent of many things and the intention of many directions. Being absolutely and fundamentally prog, they fit no more, no less that excelent in the Art Rock multitude of shapes, nuances and...et caetera.

(Robert Fripp himself is named various Shocked

)

I wanted to say the exact same thing, word for word...but Ricochet came first

yeah, right!

-------------
"You want me to play what, Robert?"

Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: October 22 2006 at 18:37

For me King Crimson has always been a very innovative and captivating progrock band, they were a kind of 'progrock chameleon'. But in order to do justice to progressive rock history I want King Crimson to be classified as a 'Classic Seventies Progrock Band', the category Art-rock sounds awful to me, King Crimson should not be in the same category as Supertramp and Uriah Heep ...

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 02:08

erik neuteboom wrote:

For me King Crimson has always been a very innovative and captivating progrock band, they were a kind of 'progrock chameleon'. But in order to do justice to progressive rock history I want King Crimson to be classified as a 'Classic Seventies Progrock Band', the category Art-rock sounds awful to me, King Crimson should not be in the same category as Supertramp and Uriah Heep ...

I agree about Supertramp, they should be IMHO in Prog Related and Uriah Heep is close to an early form of Prog Metal.

This depends now in the Art Rock Team in hands of Raffaella and Micky who were part of almost 100% of the Symphonic cleaning process.

I don't like the Classic 70's Prog Rock, because IMHO sub-genres ashould be based in styles rather than iin regional or temporal reasons.

Hey, Supertramp could also be considered Classical 70's Progrock band according to a temporal definition, they released their debut in 1970, it was a Prog album, they have earned (Like it or not) the status of a Classic band that is included in almost evry Prog site......everything is subjective.

There must be two exceptions, one for the barely Prog bands and that's Prog Related and another one for the complex 100% bands that go beyond the limits of one sub-genre (Unless we want to create King Crimson Oriented, Gentle Giant Influenced and Mike Oldfield Oriented sub-genres as other sites do) and that's Art Rock.

Genesis....Pink Floyd.....Jethro Tull.....King Crimson, etc are all Classic 70's bands, but their musical characteristics places them in determined sub-genres, Genesis is Symphonic, Jethro is Folk/Symphonic, Pink Floyd IMO is Psyche/Space, etc.

Bands like Crimson and VDGG who defy the sub-genres should be together also.

BTW: I only wrote the Art Rock definition basred in the parameters given to me by the Collaborators after discussing it, this definition remained posted several weeks for approval until it was accepted.

I also felt uncomfortable with At Rock at the beginning, Sean and Mike must remember that I wanted too use the Various Genres category as home for this eclectic or ever changing bands, but the general opinion is that something as Various Genres sounded like a ssack to place anything, so reading the new tendencies of the Art Rock term I agreed with the change, specially because mailto:M@X - M@X had already created Prog Related.

Iván

-------------

Posted By: Cynic
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 10:22

I was just clarifying that they are there because of the various genres theyve experimented with, but now that I look at it, they meet about 3-4 of the characteristics of Art Rock.

I am still pretty unfamiliar with the subgenres of progressive. Up to now, I've basically just used Progressive Rock, Progressive Metal, Space Rock, and Exprerimental as classifications and Im not even sure that I fully grasped even those terms at the time. I came here for educational purposes rather than to express my knowledge, so any help I could get would be great.

Before anyone asks, I am 16.

Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 10:28

Well I think it maybe about time to unleash the beast known as... Hard Prog!

-------------

Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 11:25

That might applicable if they had stopped after "Red." The fact is that they kept going, and changing. Would you put "Discipline," or "The Power to Believe" in a category called 'Classic Seventies?'

-------------
a.k.a. H.T.

http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com

Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 13:04

You are right about these Eighties and Nineties albums by King Crimson, Bhikkhu, but I still prefer the category Classic Seventies Prog Bands, simply because I have other ideas about the category Art-rock.

Posted By: Abstrakt
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 13:09

"Uriah Heep" are also under Art Rock.
What are "Uriah Heep", "Deep Purple" and "Iron Butterfly" Doing on PA!?

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 13:34

Geck0 wrote:

Well I think it maybe about time to unleash the beast known as... Hard Prog!

The problem is what in hell does "HARD" means?

Hard is an adjective that describes a sub-genre of BLUES BASED ROCK, characterized by strong guitars, aggressive approach, drum beat of 100 to 150 beats per minute being 120 or 125 the average and mainly a very solid structure that's all.

Almost no band from ART ROCK is blues based, they are mostly complex bands that can have a hard or softer style but being the main characteristic the eclecticism.

Hard Rock is anything but eclectic it tends to have a solid structure based in a pattern that blends the A-B-A- B (Verse-chorus-verse-chorus) of Pop with the addition of a solo and a coda that comes mainly from Jazz:

Intro
Verse
Chorus
Verse
Chorus
Solo
Chorus
Coda

Try to find a common pattern in all King Crimson or VDGG songs, it´s impossibl4e, they are too complex.

By the contrary, even in a linguistic sense ART ROCK is better because ART is free as ths bands, Erik well said that King Crimson are the Chameleons of Prog, they changed whenever Fripp wanted and that made them unique, VDGG is so free that no site dares to classify them, it's funny PRoggnosis has more than 60' sub-genres but doesn't even mention one when talking about VDGG neither GEPR or Progtressive Ears simply because they are almost impossible to categorize and Gentle Giant was an automatic blender, they mixed everything, probably tried to give a Symphonic structure but they were by far one of the most free bands.

So if you ask me, ART ROCK is the best descriptoion we can get for bands that try to be free from the pre-existent patterns, structures or limitations of commercial Rock.

Iván

-------------

Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 17:07

Well, since the early Seventies I read music magazines and books, I have grown up with the fact that Art-rock features bands like Queen, 10-CC, Roxy Music and Supertramp because they are on the border between progressive music and a more commercial approach. If I look at King Crimson to categorize, for me it's very important that they were one of the pivotal progressive prog bands in the Seventies (ITCOTCK-Red) and I want to see this back in the categorisation, this is not the case in Art-rock, I miss the important word progressive so that's for me the trigger to search for another categorisation. I would like to introduce 'Classic Seventies Prog Rock', especially for King Crimson but also for Jethro Tull and Pink Floyd.

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 18:10

erik neuteboom wrote:

I understand your doubts, I also had some prejudices against ART ROCK because during 80's and most of the 90's it was used to represent the borderline between Prog and Mainstream, but it was never the same, according to John Rockwell, ART ROCK involves more than Progressive Rock:

Art rock is a term used by some to describe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_roll - rock music that is characterized by ambitious, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avant-garde - avant-garde or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postmodernism - postmodern lyrical themes and/or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melody - melodic , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmony - harmonic , or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhythm - rhythmic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimental_music - experimentation , often extending beyond standard http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_music - popular music forms and genres, toward influences in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz - jazz , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_classical_music - classical , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_music - world music or the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimental_music - experimental http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avant-garde - avant-garde . The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art - art rock designation is a vague one, since few rock and pop musicians openly aspire to the title. The concept of "art rock" has also sometimes been conflated with the genre of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_rock - progressive rock , though today the terms are usually used differently.

Though The Weaver Temptations' Rambling House Bites Me Hard (1962) was quite avant-garde, the record often cited as the first step towards such experimentation is the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beatles - Beatles ' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sgt._Pepper%27s_Lonely_Hearts_Club_Band - Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (1967), it being an "unabashedly eclectic, musically clever (harmonies, rhythms and, above all, arrangements) melange that could only have been created in the modern recording studio."^{[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources - citation needed ]} Art rock may be considered "arty" through imitation of classical "art" music or literature, or simply through eclecticism. Examples of the former include http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Moody_Blues - The Moody Blues , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nice - The Nice , and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerson%2C_Lake_%26_Palmer - Emerson, Lake & Palmer and examples of the latter include http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roxy_Music - Roxy Music , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis_%28band%29 - Genesis , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes_%28band%29 - Yes , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audience - Audience , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supertramp - Supertramp and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_Light_Orchestra - Electric Light Orchestra . (Rockwell 1992, p.492-494)

Taken subjectively, art rock is a term that can encompass just about any style within the rock n' roll umbrella. To name just a few: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Eno - Brian Eno 's ambient music; the avant-garde experimental http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-punk - proto-punk of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Velvet_Underground - The Velvet Underground while http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cale - John Cale was present in the lineup, which actually predates Sgt. Pepper's; the electronica and musique concrete of German http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krautrock - Krautrock bands like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Can_%28band%29 - Can and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neu%21 - Neu! ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tool_%28band%29 - Tool 's textured http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_metal_music - heavy metal ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_rock - gothic rock founding fathers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bauhaus_%28band%29 - Bauhaus ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joni_Mitchell - Joni Mitchell 's jazz-infused folk rock; and the sonic experimentation and/or abrasive noise common to many http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-punk - post-punk , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indie_%28music%29 - indie , and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_rock - alternative rock bands of the past 25 years. Around 2004, the phrase "art rock" has been popularly used to describe a movement of bands influenced by the 1970s/1980s work of artists like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bowie - David Bowie , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Byrne_%28musician%29 - David Byrne , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Verlaine - Tom Verlaine and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Eno - Brian Eno , such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Arcade_Fire - The Arcade Fire , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_Social_Scene - Broken Social Scene , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloc_Party - Bloc Party and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_Parade - Wolf Parade .

Critics and fans sometimes use the term 'art rock' to make a cultural statement about the state of popular music. Artists whose sound is based in the rock and pop forms first established in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1950s - 1950s and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960s - 1960s -- even those who clearly transcend these forms -- are still viewed by certain members of the elite, particularly classical or jazz critics, as mere peddlers of product, and thus ' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_culture - low art '. Identifying certain popular music as 'art rock' makes a claim both for the integrity of the specified work or artist, and for the serious artistic potential of rock and pop music in general. The term has never come into wide use beyond the world of rock criticism, for perhaps the same reason; most creative bands and popular music artists have no interest themselves in claiming adherence to the rigid standards of those who find little of value in pop music. In fact since the 1960s and 1970s, many of the artists one might class as 'art rock' (along with an increasing consensus among modern cultural elites themselves), actively resist the idea any such thing as ' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_art - high art ' exists at all, at least as it was formerly defined to exclude most rock and pop music.

Art rock reached its commercial height with the popularity of the aforementioned http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_rock - progressive rock bands, such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Crimson - King Crimson , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes_%28band%29 - Yes , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_%28band%29 - Rush , and especially http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_Floyd - Pink Floyd , whose mix of jazz, classical and blues influences, smooth psychedelic soundscapes, and anti-establishment lyrics proved to be commercially viable as mainstream pop music, and very influential.

After the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punk_rock - punk revolution of the late '70s put simplicity back in style, and as openly 'progressive' bands drifted toward the mainstream with hit singles and more commercial productions, their 'art rock' designation fell away, and a new breed of artists took their place on the cutting edge of 'art rock'

SOURCE: Rockwell, John. "Art Rock" in Henke, James et al. (Eds.) (1992).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_rock - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_rock

Today and specifically here, the simplest form of Prog is Prog Related, things change, terms change, sometimes we must accept this even if we feel uncomfortable.

I know Raf and Micky have an idea of changing the name of Art Rock due to some connotations but honestly I feel comfortable with it now, but it's in their capable hands.

Classic 70's Prog Rock is something I still don't like to be honest, to vague, ambiguous and leads to confusion, any Prog band from the 70's could be added ghere and this will destroy the essence of the sub-genres that is a determined style, influence and atmosphere. but it's only my opinion.

Iván

-------------

Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 18:39

It's good to discuss the categories this way because we need to clear things. My biggest problem is that Pink Floyd and King Crimson are not in the same categroy as Yes, Genesis and ELP, these are the bands that speerheaded the Seventies Prog so I am looking for ways to put these bands in the same category but I admit that Classic Seventies Prog bands is not perfect but on the other hand, the recent situation with Pink Floyd as Space Rock/Psychedelic and King Crimson as Art-rock is unsatisfying for me, as I said this does harm to their fame as legendary progressive rock bands, as every progheads knows these bands.

Posted By: purplepiper
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 19:11

I think "art rock" is a fitting term for KC, especially their earlier works (in the court, larks' toungues, starless and bb etc.). I myself find larks' tongues to be the most "out there" album and the most art-like as a whole album. When I hear "art rock",KC comes to mind immediately! The def. of art rock is not static by any means, but I still find that art rock is a pretty darn good label for KC, although they could fit in other categories as well. Classic 70's prog would also be a fitting classification. KC is the best band ever!!!

Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 20:03

erik neuteboom wrote:

I'm confused, how does having them in seperat sub genres damage their fame, possibly even stature(though I hope you arnt implying this), of King Crimson and Floyd (not to mention VDGG and Gentle Giant)?

-------------
Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005

Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 20:31

Actually, I made a faux pas, I meant to say Dark Prog.

-------------

Posted By: EyeShakingKing
Date Posted: October 23 2006 at 22:40

Abstrakt wrote:

"Uriah Heep" are also under Art Rock.
What are "Uriah Heep", "Deep Purple" and "Iron Butterfly" Doing on PA!?

You cannot deny the influence those bands had on prog bands. I was slightly surprised when Uriah Heep wasn't under proto prog.

King Crimson being under art rock? That's easy... it's a generic term. Does Court sound like Larks? Does Red sound like Three of a Perfect Pair? Does TOAPP sound like Power to Believe? They span so many genres and are always on the cutting edge.

And... why do we have to so actively persue the genre game? Back in the day, I would have called it all prog... I just recently discovered these subgenres. They are convienent for figuring out what kind of music you like... but I'm not going to get too steamed when I find a proto prog band mixed in with the art rock.

-------------
Yeah, we're runnin' a little bit hot tonight.
I can barely see the road from the heat comin' off of it.

Posted By: purplepiper
Date Posted: October 24 2006 at 00:34

When it comes to classifying crimson, I often wonder if there are some bands which are better left un-classified. It would not be a knock at their ability (these guys are pro), but would be a testament to their originality. Of course, we must classify them as something, perhaps as "other" so that they may be catalogued in this site. King Crimson need only be classified as King Crimson. Nothing more, and certainly nothing less! They are one of a kind!

Posted By: jeremybender34
Date Posted: October 24 2006 at 02:29

Heh, I am slowly awainting the day that Prog has as many sub genres as metal does. I can imagine it now, Doom Prog, Death Prog, Black Prog, Hair Prog, Melodic Black/Death Viking Prog. It's gonna be a blast.

Posted By: pero
Date Posted: October 24 2006 at 02:44

To me Laurie Anderson and Captain Beefhart are ART not Uriah heep or Supertramp.

"Talk talk" is more progressive than Supertramp or Styx

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 05 2006 at 12:57

hmmmm......

nice topic hahahhahah

major revisions including a redefining, a renaming, and major addditions and castoffs to come for Art-Rock. The 'name' is the first thing to go.. the definition the 2nd....

back from vacation.. and ready to kiss some proverbial ass this week hahahahha...

for now.. unpacking and trying to get back into the swing of real life...

nice to be back...

-------------
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: November 05 2006 at 13:00

Hi mickey. Strangely enough, I bet you did more for PA while on vacation while I was here.

-------------
http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!

Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: November 05 2006 at 13:05

I've always wondered why there are no Art Rock specialists on this site...other than Micky (who used to be Symphonic)

anyways, KC defines art rock for me (quite an oxymoron there) they span Protometal, symphonic prog, and in some cases Avant Garde (with pieces like Providence). Art Rock fits them like a glove to me Approve

-------------

Posted By: Rosescar
Date Posted: November 05 2006 at 13:06

Doesn't this mean Frank Zappa goes in there too (unless he already is)?

-------------
http://www.soundclick.com/rosescar/ - My music!

"THE AUDIENCE WERE generally drugged. (In Holland, always)." - Robert Fripp

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 05 2006 at 13:08

stonebeard wrote:

Hi mickey. Strangely enough, I bet you did more for PA while on vacation while I was here.

the truth is stranger than fiction hahahahhahahhaha

ps. I still am willing to join the Neo team... 3 titles for the price of 1 LOL

-------------
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 05 2006 at 13:13

heyitsthatguy wrote:

I've always wondered why there are no Art Rock specialists on this site...other than Micky (who used to be Symphonic)

anyways, KC defines art rock for me (quite an oxymoron there) they span Protometal, symphonic prog, and in some cases Avant Garde (with pieces like Providence). Art Rock fits them like a glove to me Approve

agree with you on KC and there are only 2 AR specialists by official decree... myself and Ghost Rider who used to work together on the sympho team..it cuts down on the redtape and the bullsh*t... Art Rock is a disaster and needed a lot of planning before taking any action.

-------------
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: Asyte2c00
Date Posted: November 05 2006 at 13:17

Art Rock usually entails that a band has evolved trheir sound over time

KC: Lizard and Discipline sound nothing alike

Rush: Rush (which sounds like Sabbath and Purple) and Power Windows sound noithing alike.

Radiohead: Pablo Honey and Kid A

Well, thats my belief

Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: November 05 2006 at 13:19

micky wrote:

Sort of the like the prog related section but for bands that are actually progressive? LOL

and I didn't know Ghost Rider was one too Shocked

-------------

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 05 2006 at 13:23

Asyte2c00 wrote:

Art Rock usually entails that a band has evolved trheir sound over time

KC: Lizard and Discipline sound nothing alike

Rush: Rush (which sounds like Sabbath and Purple) and Power Windows sound noithing alike.

Radiohead: Pablo Honey and Kid A

Well, thats my belief

EXACTLY why Raffaella and I are insistant upon a name change.... who the hell didn't evolve their sounds over the course of a meaningful career... evolving and change are hallmarks of prog...Art Rock.

-------------
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 05 2006 at 13:33

Asyte2c00 wrote:

Art Rock usually entails that a band has evolved trheir sound over time

This is a bit limitative, also bands that are impossible or too damn hard to categorize under one single label or sub-genre.

KC: Lizard and Discipline sound nothing alike

Well, the differences between ITCOTCK and Thrak are more radical.

Rush: Rush (which sounds like Sabbath and Purple) and Power Windows sound noithing alike.

Well Rush started as a bunch of Zep wannabes and evolved into a complex Prog band that fits perfectly into Art Rock, not because of the evolution but because they have Prog Metal, Hard Rock, Symphonic and other characteristics.

Their evolution s not so dramatical as in the case of King Crimson.

Radiohead: Pablo Honey and Kid A

Well I belive Radiohead changed from Indie/Alternative to Prog Related at the most, but this is only my personal opinion.

Well, thats my belief

Yes you make some good points IMO.

Iván

-------------

Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: November 05 2006 at 13:37

heyitsthatguy wrote:

micky wrote:

Sort of the like the prog related section but for bands that are actually progressive? LOL

and I didn't know Ghost Rider was one too Shocked

You bet I am... Wink

I actually was the one who got the idea of an AR team first!

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 05 2006 at 13:38

BTW: Welcome back Raf and Micky.

Iván

-------------

Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: November 05 2006 at 14:16

I just noticed Micky's return in another thread, and now Raffaella too.

Greetings and salutations.

Great to have the both of you back!

-------------
a.k.a. H.T.

http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com

Posted By: Atomic_Rooster
Date Posted: November 05 2006 at 16:33

on the topic of inconsistent classification, why is Iron Maiden in prog related rather than prog metal? SOOOOOOOOOOoooO CONPHUZED

-------------
I am but a servant of the mighty Fripp, the sound of whose loins shall forever be upon the tongues of his followers.