Ugghhh, I'd rather play a cherub at Netherland ranch, than listen to anymore DT!

DT bores me after 5 minutes, and I'm not alone.

We have a Progressive discussion group in Perú named La Lata, and every month one member talks about a band and shows some videos for all the group in a Video Club.

At the end of 2004 one of our best prepared hosts "Cesar Inca" talked about Dream Theater, his speech was impecable and interesting, the videos were good, but the reaction among the public was terrible, most of the people don't have interest in Prog' Metal or Dream Theater.

Iván

Ugghhh, I'd rather play a cherub at Netherland ranch, than listen to anymore DT

Wow!!!!!!

Now that is some serious dislike

How can DT "misrepresent progressive music" ??

Just BECAUSE YOU mailto:Don@T - DON'T LIKE IT?

Swinton MCR wrote: How can DT "misrepresent progressive music" ?? Just BECAUSE YOU mailto:Don@T - DON'T LIKE IT?

Why have you included a hyperlink to your email Swinny?

Swinton MCR wrote: I don't know - my computer just decided to put it in ? - Very strange ??

No- you originally typed "@" instead of " ' " .

As one who has previosuly freaked out (just ever so slightly) about polls I probably shouldn't get involved here, but Gdub makes an interesting point about prog-metal's representation of the genre.

Not arguing whether DT are prog or not (so dull - they're here because they're here) but heavy metal's take on (abduction of?) is an interesting subject.

Has heavy metal ruined prog? Was prog in any way ever allied with heavy metal in some sort of musical pigeon hole? Why/How do so many people who are enthusiastic about metal find their way to Yes/KC/Genesis/Floyd etc and why when they do find them are they attracted to music, which to my ears, has so little to do with prog.

Ok there are exceptions such as Rush who have a hard rock core running through their music (but which in my opinion was thrown out on their most interesting records - 1976-1984) before re-emerging in the 90s.

But what the hell is the deal with Metal and Prog?

To me they're mutually exclusive - one is clever and inspired by jazz, folk and classical filtered through some R&B, blues and psychedelia, the other bludgeoning, soulless and inspired by speed, volume and other heavy metal/hard rock.

Am I alone in thinking this?

"But what the hell is the deal with Metal and Prog? "

I wish I knew. 

very good musicians. Mike Portnoy is one of the best drummers from the 90s I think. The vocalization is good, the guitars can become boring. And I give a A+ to the keyboarding.

Overall I enjoy DT. I have 3 of their albums working on getting a couple more

Yes and No

I think their quite good, they just get boring after the first 38 seconds.

tuxon wrote: Yes and No I think their quite good, they just get boring after the first 38 seconds.

Hey don't make fun of them Tuxxy....they're my buddies...in fact they're my Pallas

gdub411 wrote: tuxon wrote: Yes and No I think their quite good, they just get boring after the first 38 seconds. Hey don't make fun of them Tuxxy....they're my buddies...in fact they're my Pallas

All Hail El Presidente De Comedy Third World!

I've only heard "Images and Words", and didn't hear anything that I would consider "true" prog on it, although it's certainly progressive metal in the same way as Metallica's "...And Justice For All".

I don't really consider it a sub-genre of prog any more than I would consider the progressive rock of Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin a sub-genre of prog.

Progressive Rock (capitalised to distinguish), for me at least, starts with King Crimson and Genesis as the yardsticks. Anything else needs to satisfy the criteria that;

a) The roots are hard to identify.

b) The influences are wide and varied, and a given album is not simply a progressive version of an existing genre.

c) The first five minutes tell you very little about how the rest of a given album will unfold, particularly stylistically.

Length of songs, virtuosity and complexity are irrelevant - but there is always that "organic groove" somewhere in the music which is the biggest tell-tale sign for me, and I just don't hear than in Dream Theater's music. It's exactly the point raised by Spartacus above - DT's compostional methods seem to lack flow and direction in favour of delivery and production.

I love metal music, and on the best examples, a "groove" is in full force - but it is a metal groove; Great album examples are: Iron Maiden's "Number of the Beast", Motorhead's "Overkill", Rush's "2112", Metallica's "Master of Puppets" and Diamond Head's "Living on Borrowed Time". But the former two are unmistakably metal, and the latter don't really hit the "Prog groove" to my ears.The metal sound seems to exclude what I would think of as "true Prog", simply because "true Prog" is only identifiable as itself - not another genre.

Danbo's thread on UK brings up interesting points, as you can clearly hear the stylistic roots of "Images and Words" quite clearly in UK's music - right down to proto-shredding.

That said, I hear something in Cradle of Filth's music which rises above the "metal groove" in a way that even VoiVod don't quite match with their Pink Floyd covers... maybe it's just me

gdub411 wrote: tuxon wrote: Yes and No I think their quite good, they just get boring after the first 38 seconds. Hey don't make fun of them Tuxxy....they're my buddies...in fact they're my Pallas

Maybe different for you, but I don't feel the need to get into them.

tuxon wrote: gdub411 wrote: tuxon wrote: Yes and No I think their quite good, they just get boring after the first 38 seconds. Hey don't make fun of them Tuxxy....they're my buddies...in fact they're my Pallas Maybe different for you, but I don't feel the need to get into them.

Ahem...Tuxxy...it was just a joke...albeit a bad one.

It's strange to me, as a staunch supporter of Rush, that anyone would think that 2112 is anything other than a heavy metal album. There is no complexity,symphonia (?) or virtually anything that marks it out as a Prog Rock album other than the length of the title track.

Reed Lover wrote: It's strange to me, as a staunch supporter of Rush, that anyone would think that 2112 is anything other than a heavy metal album. There is no complexity,symphonia (?) or virtually anything that marks it out as a Prog Rock album other than the length of the title track.

Hey don't be dissing my favorite band you Rush hater!!

I never considered Rush prog anyway, though some songs lean on progressivenes.

Dream theater on the other hand are prog, no doubt about that, but they lean to much on fast paced drums and solo's that linger on until the inspiration is gone. Maybe they are to inspired for my liking.

ivan_2068 wrote: We have a Progressive discussion group in Perú named La Lata, and every month one member talks about a band and shows some videos for all the group in a Video Club. At the end of 2004 one of our best prepared hosts "Cesar Inca" talked about Dream Theater, his speech was impecable and interesting, the videos were good, but the reaction among the public was terrible...

Thank you, my dearest friend. 

Reed Lover wrote: It's strange to me, as a staunch supporter of Rush, that anyone would think that 2112 is anything other than a heavy metal album. There is no complexity,symphonia (?) or virtually anything that marks it out as a Prog Rock album other than the length of the title track.

2112 is definetly prog rock as is Farewell To Kings and Hemispheres.They later moved to 'techno rock' in the eighties before eventually settling on a more straightforward rock style.Dream Theater are and always have been a heavy metal band with a virtuoso keyboardist.Take away the keyboard player and they would be Iron Maiden minus a couple of guitarists.

frosty wrote: The most encouraging thing I find about Dream Theater is that their albums are continually improving. Train Of Thought is an absolute cracker, can't wait for the next one.

Don't agree.Train Of Thought is a step back towards out and out metal.Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence is about as prog as they will ever get.

richardh wrote: frosty wrote: The most encouraging thing I find about Dream Theater is that their albums are continually improving. Train Of Thought is an absolute cracker, can't wait for the next one. Don't agree.Train Of Thought is a step back towards out and out metal.Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence is about as prog as they will ever get.

I agree that ToT is much heavier than anything they have done in the past, however the question wasn't which album was their most progressive but if you enjoy listening to them.

I think ToT is their best and most consistent work to date but definately not their most progressive.

This may be a step backwards in some peoples eyes but not mine.

Spartacus wrote: I really don't think it is progressive music, that is my concern.  It does have some elements of the genre, but DT is more of a slick metal band with progressive tendencies.  Metal first and Prog second, thus MetalProg not ProgMetal.  I feel that those outside of prog are often scared away by these "ProgMetal" bands like DT.  I just don't want prog and it's public view for that matter be tainted by the likes of DT.  I have been lurking around these forums for more than a month now and I was shocked by the amount of interest I see in DT and bands like them.  I am not trying to start a battle just get a barometer of the interest in DT.  If you enjoy DT so be it, just taking a poll.

I think it's prog, just bad prog. They're too into themselves, too many poorly placed solos, and they kill all their momentum showing off. Sure they're great musicians, but for God's sake think about the band, and not yourself, and the singing! As someone who looks for a good voice in music I can't stand most of their music.

It's too much like Metallica, however I preferr Metallica to be honest, they would just make a bad prog band.

richardh wrote: Don't agree.Train Of Thought is a step back towards out and out metal.Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence is about as prog as they will ever get.

Couldn't agree more. But I give ToT more credit, it's a very interesting piece of work. And I also agree that some of their music is cheesy (Another Day, most of Awake, most of Falling into Infinity), but then again, it is enjoyable to me same time.

I voted yes.

They are my favourite band, EVER! I know we all have different opinions, and I respect that, but to me, they are perfect!

I've said YES. Yes, maybe the band is a bit overrated, but I really enjoy them listening Metropolis-II (one of my favorite albums of 90s at all!), also 89, 92, 94 albums and 93 and Scenes' concerts. I still never heard their last two stodio albums.

Though their 97 album is a crap to me... Anyway the band is very good!

How do you know he's not 2M tall and weighing in at 120 Kg's ?? and can bench press the combined weight of a Swinton Pubs Darts team*

* - EU weight equivalent (1 Tonne!)

Azrael2112 wrote: I myself voted yes. I enjoy MOST of their output. I own every album, and take the good with the bad. I generally am not a fan of the type of metal that influences their music. It really does seem that you either love or hate them. But to the starter of the topic. Who I know for a fact, does not own any of their albums, cept the first one I believe? (Am I right on this, Chris?) Anyway, I really think that his judgments are being based of a few snippets that he heard many years ago, and a few that I've played for him. If you can't get over the guitar stylings and singing, well it just isnt the music for you. But if you CAN get over that and let it grow on you and actually listen to it, you will hear that alot of their output is really prog, with metal tendacies. Not the other way around. (and no it is not "shred-metal prog")

I have owned When Dream and Day Unite, A Change of Seasons, and Awake, have being the key word.  In college I had a friend who always tried to turn me on to DT, Savatage, and Steve Vai which he called "the maturation of prog."  I tried to understand this brand of prog but I just could not hear any inspiration in the music.  I guess I just like my prog in it's immature stages.  Now I am not completly turned off by this metal subgenre, I do enjoy OSI, Mastermind, and Enchant.

They recorded "A Change of Season" with Derek Sherinian, if that explains anything. I'd definately recommend that! They also recorded "Falling Into Infinity" with him, and he appeared on the "Once In a Livetime" live CD.

Although he is a great Keyboard player, for some reason I don't really consider him to have contributed anything to Dream Theater.

Swinton MCR wrote: How do you know he's not 2M tall and weighing in at 120 Kg's ?? and can bench press the combined weight of a Swinton Pubs Darts team* * - EU weight equivalent (1 Tonne!)

Well I'm heading towards 120KGs rapidly Swinny!

Bolton lads are 'ard from birth lad, not like you manky Mancs

Velvetclown wrote: Who cares about Reed, he´s just a wimp

Coming from a dude who walks round in makeup, a plastic nose and a mop for a wig, that's very rich!

chorus of one wrote: I hate Train Of Thought.

You're a woman, you dont have a train of thought.

most progressive moments,

images and words, scenes from a memory, six degrees of inner turbulence, awake and train of thought.

six degrees has a 42 minute long suite.
all their albums have constant time changes, lengthy pieces and most have suites,

falling into infinity has a suite at the end as well as scenes from a memory being split into 2 acts. this is also a concept album which is the most prog album. train of thought is constant prog metal. awake has a suite called a mind beside itself that consists of erotomania, voices and the silent man.

if you still dont like any of that then check out their live dvds cos they r amazing live.

If "Images and Words" is among DT's most progressive moments, then that confirms my belief that they really don't seem to be a prog band, as there is no discernable prog on that album.

It takes more than time changes, lengthy pieces and suites to be prog - or we'd have jazz and classical albums in the archives.

Certif1ed wrote: If "Images and Words" is among DT's most progressive moments, then that confirms my belief that they really don't seem to be a prog band, as there is no discernable prog on that album. It takes more than time changes, lengthy pieces and suites to be prog - or we'd have jazz and classical albums in the archives.

Jazz is a form of music, classic is a form of music and prog rock is a form of rock and roll...Dream Theatre falls into the catagory of rock-n-roll while the above mentioned don't. That is why they are not in the archives. Dream Theatre?....I don't know...I have only 1 lp....I need more material to make up my mind on them.

gdub411 wrote: Certif1ed wrote: If "Images and Words" is among DT's most progressive moments, then that confirms my belief that they really don't seem to be a prog band, as there is no discernable prog on that album. It takes more than time changes, lengthy pieces and suites to be prog - or we'd have jazz and classical albums in the archives. Jazz is a form of music, classic is a form of music and prog rock is a form of rock and roll... As opposed to music, you mean... Dream Theatre falls into the catagory of rock-n-roll while the above mentioned don't. That is why they are not in the archives. Er... come again? Are you suggesting Bill Haley and Elvis should be in the archives? Dream Theatre?....I don't know...I have only 1 lp....I need more material to make up my mind on them. Me too - but supposedly "Images and Words" is a great example of prog metal. I bought the album and feel burned, as I don't hear the prog in it. Progressive, yes. So were Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin. Metal, yes. So are Metallica and Iron Maiden. Prog, nope.

...couldn't resist...

gdub411 wrote: Progressive rock is a sub genre to rock-n-roll. Elvis doesn't belong on it because he pure rock. Classical music and Jazz isn't rock.

No kidding...

So why Dream Theater and not Metallica, Diamond Head, Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, Budgie, Mercyful Fate, Kreator, Dark Angel or a thousand other progressive  (small "p") rock bands?

Mategra wrote: Dream Theater and prog metal in general is not my cup of tea (or liqueur as we say in Sweden).

Don't worry you are not alone.  We can get by without it. 

Swinton MCR wrote: Come on certified - Have you heard "Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence" - How can an epic that starts like The Enid and then develops through Rush/Yes type passages not be deemed progressive ?? - even the sustain right at the end is sort of Floydsy....It's definately more progressive than anything Deep Purple did !!!

Thanks - that's the kind of answer I'm looking for.

I stated above that I've only heard "Images and Words", because I've been told that it's one of DT's proggiest albums.

I will check out "Six Degrees..." as soon as I can get a copy - but it will probably take me a few weeks or even months before I attempt to review it, as I realise that any kind of prog music requires a deal of "living with".

Thanks for the recommendation - as a massive Enid fan I'm looking forward to it!

I'm Glad to be of service - I got the CD for crimbo and played CD 2 (The epic title track) on boxing day, and I was VERY suprised - nobody had told me that DT would start a track with 6-7 minutes of Enid like symphonic rock (Even Lickerish style Guitar as well) - Then the track well it's magnificent (IMO) - And at 42 minutes a true epic....ENJOY !

P.s - the first CD is good  - just more typical metal/prog - but with some nice bits in there to make it more proggy....

In response to my 'narrow-minded' view of metal, some asked how much I've listened to. Too much, I started out with Motorhead, took in all the classics along the way and sneaked off for a taste of Metallica et al - then I became an adult

sorry, it's just not my taste anymore - regardless of the 'intensity' 'superior musicianship' 'emotion' I just find it laughable Spinal Tap nonsense (not that certain aspects of classic prog aren't similarly Tap-ish - 'a flower?')

To me it's just juvenile, teen angst-ridden, overbearing, overstated bellowing. And really, really takes itself way too seriously.

Lighten up prog-matallers, adolescent acne does clear up!!!

I'm 39  - My acne  (I didn't have much) disappeared along with Liverpools hopes of ever winning a league title because they banned the back-pass......................

I still enjoy metal -

I suppose you're suggesting that when I hit 50 I had better start listening to Nat King Cole like my Mother !!!!!

Ah now he could sing - his version of Bring Your Daughter to the Slaughter kicked ass!!!

Why in the first place label heavy metal bands as progressive metal ? Uriah Heep, Deep Purple were heavy metal bands with guitars in the straight blues lanes and backed by heavy Hammond organ tunes. Both Hensley and Lord got world wide recognition as hammond players. Why the prog label....DT is just another band , non prog, heavy metal...as Metallica. The band that comes closest to progressive rock is Queensryche...

________

Lunar

Lunarscape wrote: Why in the first place label heavy metal bands as progressive metal ? Uriah Heep, Deep Purple were heavy metal bands with guitars in the straight blues lanes and backed by heavy Hammond organ tunes. Both Hensley and Lord got world wide recognition as hammond players. Why the prog label....DT is just another band , non prog, heavy metal...as Metallica. The band that comes closest to progressive rock is Queensryche... ________ Lunar

Agreed, as I have gathered from this thread and poll DT is a stepingstone band for metal fans to get into prog.  I will never see DT as a true prog group at all.  The best definition of prog I have ever seen is located here http://www.kinesiscd.com/philosophy.htm - http://www.kinesiscd.com/philosophy.htm .  This is the Kinesis label's defintion and I do not think that DT embrases it.  I have probably opened up a whole new can of worms.  sorry

Reed Lover wrote: Ugghhh, I'd rather play a cherub at Netherland ranch, than listen to anymore DT!

Couldn't agree more, between James LaBrie's unlistenable screeching and the pointless post-Al DiMeola math-rock w**kery, I'll pass on these guys altogether.

Azrael2112 wrote: Comparing Metallica to Dream Theater is ridiculous. Though Metallica in their early days did dabble in "prog-like" areas. They are by no means prog.

It's by no means a ridiculous comparison - there are riffs on "Images and Words" that are almost directly lifted from "...And Justice for All" - plus DT covered the entire "Master of Puppets" album. The Metallica influence is VERY strong - Metallica were well ahead of their time back in 1988, and I would consider both "Master..." and "...And Justice..." to be at least proto prog metal albums. Although maybe UK came closer, in 1978.

Certif1ed wrote: [QUOTE=Azrael2112] Comparing Metallica to Dream Theater is ridiculous. Though Metallica in their early days did dabble in "prog-like" areas. They are by no means prog.

It's by no means a ridiculous comparison - there are riffs on "Images
and Words" that are almost directly lifted from "...And Justice for
All" - plus DT covered the entire "Master of Puppets"
album. The Metallica influence is VERY strong - Metallica
were well ahead of their time back in 1988, and I would consider both
"Master..." and "...And Justice..." to be at least proto prog
metal albums. Although maybe UK came closer, in 1978.

Certif1ed wrote: [QUOTE=Azrael2112] Comparing Metallica to Dream Theater is ridiculous. Though Metallica in their early days did dabble in "prog-like" areas. They are by no means prog.

It's by no means a ridiculous comparison - there are riffs on "Images
and Words" that are almost directly lifted from "...And Justice for
All" - plus DT covered the entire "Master of Puppets"
album. The Metallica influence is VERY strong - Metallica
were well ahead of their time back in 1988, and I would consider both
"Master..." and "...And Justice..." to be at least proto prog
metal albums. Although maybe UK came closer, in 1978.

That's what I thought until I tracked down a copy of their debut album. Yes there's jazz inflections on it, but I also hear a lot of bits and pieces that remind me of some sections of "Words and Images".

Jazz does have a place in prog - consider many of the Canterbury bands - or even "21st Century Schizoid Man"

I've only listened to UK's debut once - I bought it on Saturday for 50p - but liked it instantly; It sounded like Colosseum II but without the bluff. Gary Moore may be a wonderful guitarist - and a helpful roadie (I'll tell you the story sometime ), but on the 2 Colosseum albums I own he bluffs his heart out. Holdsworth's style on UK's debut is almost proto-shredding - a joy to behold, you might say

FloydWright wrote: Hey, I'm a woman and I liked Train of Thought! Aaaaanyway...Valarius, how would you describe A Change of Seasons? What other albums of theirs does it compare best to, if any? I guess I'm kinda hesitant about purchasing DT albums I don't know something about in advance.

"Images And Words", "Awake"... any of them really. It's just one of those essential albums that you should get! Although "ACOS" (the song) is 20 minutes long, it's the only original on the album. Along with it are 4 covers recorded live. But that doesn't matter, because it's still an amazing album!

arcer wrote: To me it's just juvenile, teen angst-ridden, overbearing, overstated bellowing. And really, really takes itself way too seriously.

...and the problem with that is...?

Oh wait, bands should never take themselves seriously, should they - bands like Yes, ELP, Genesis, King Crimson...

1) Somebody mentioned the fact that DT might scare people away from listening to Prog.  I would think that bands like Magma and Can would do the same if a mainstream music fan was listening to them for the first time.  Does this mean that we should stop giving attention to bands like those as well?

2) When DT "go metal" it does not automatically ruin the music.  Utilising the whole musical spectrum in terms of soft/heavy as bands like Opeth and DT do is nothing but beneficial.  It's great to have a band that can use both beautiful melodies and crushing heavy metal, especially within the same song.  The juxaposition is terrific!  If timed right, a metal riff can be just as moving as a quiet melody line.

3) I really wish people would stop referring to DT purely as "great musicians".  They are great musicians, some of the best I've ever seen, but this merely fuels the critisism that they are all about pointless never-ending solos rather than songs.  This is completely untrue.  Just listen to pieces like Learning To LIve, A Change Of Seasons and Beyond This Life.  In terms of song-writing alone, DT are a fantastic band.

There is, incidentally, not a doubt in my mind that DT are Prog.  Just because their roots are in metal rather than rock, folk or jazz doesn't make them any less so.

I've said my piece.

since ive been hearing a lot of buzz about the metallica influence, yes DT are very tallica inspired. but ten times as proggy as metallica IMO

metallicas prog pieces:

orion, the call of ktulu, the outlaw torn, master of puppets maybe, and justice for all, one, to live is to die, blackened maybe. thas about it i think.

Certif1ed wrote: arcer wrote: To me it's just juvenile, teen angst-ridden, overbearing, overstated bellowing. And really, really takes itself way too seriously. ...and the problem with that is...? Oh wait, bands should never take themselves seriously, should they - bands like Yes, ELP, Genesis, King Crimson...

Ah but I never said that the classic prog bands didn't take themselves too seriously - I find ELP hilariously Tap-ish And I will confess that the first time I saw Yes and little Jon Anderson produced a little harp to play the mid-section of 'Awaken' I nearly p***ed myself laughing thinking 'there's a harp onstage in danger of being trodden on by a dawrf (anderson)', though I adore Yes. 

However, at least with most classic prog and other forms of music where there is serious intent (lyrically and musically) it doesn't come across as fifth form misery wrapped in 'weighty' powerchords intersperesed with pointless solos of brow-furrowing 'meaning'.

Just personal, you understand, i can appreciate why some people might go for it (in the same way I understand why people listen to Marilyn Manson and hate their parents) but I just find it all too amusing.

In my formative years I did get very very into metal, I suppose you'd call it 'classic metal/hard rock' now - Purple, AC/DC, Rainbow, Maiden, Sabs, Diamond Head etc etc but now I own very little save for some Purple, Rainbow and Sabbath as I can't see too much merit in it. I still dearly love AC/DC though but now I see them for what they are - a fabulous rock n roll band with the knack of writing some incredibly infectious pop songs - i don't even think of them as metal or hard rock any more.

I just find the metal from the early 80s onward - and particularly the 90 prog-metal - to be po-faced, self-regarding and altogether too .... dull. It just isn't fun, nothing in it sparkles for me like the bands of yore. I think Queensryche have a lot to answer for here - I have never ever seen a band take itself so seriously and yet be so vacuous musically. Operation Mindcrime (which I seem to feel is heralded as a major jumping off point for prog-metal) to me just sounds like badly recycled Pink Floyd meets Sabbath in a rehearsal room owned by Bon Jovi. Poor songwriting, poor ideas, poor vocals and melodies.

And I don't think it's simply old age catching up (i'm 38). I find more innovation, spark, life, humour and lyrics worth listening to in things like Radiohead et al. Indeed, I find them and their ilk to be far more akin to progressive rock than prog-metal.

Which is what I was trying to get at with my first post on this thread. Why is metal so closely linked to prog by some? Aside from long songs I can see little common ground.

I enjoy.....

I have all their albums.IMO,Awake and 6 Degrees are really prog,and so is the debut dispite the bad production;I & W and ToT are interesting,especially for metal fans,though not so progressive;A Change of Seasons and Metropolis pt.2 are awfully touching,even if sometimes a little bit boring;I don't like Falling into Infinity. 

I like both prog rock and prog metal,from KC,Yes,E.L.P,Maxphone to PoS,Sym X & Sieges Even.Of course ,prog rock sounds deeper and more sophisticated,but prog metal is still worth listening to.

ironsmelter wrote: I enjoy..... I have all their albums.IMO,Awake and 6 Degrees are really prog,and so is the debut dispite the bad production;I & W and ToT are interesting,especially for metal fans,though not so progressive;A Change of Seasons and Metropolis pt.2 are awfully touching,even if sometimes a little bit boring;I don't like Falling into Infinity.  I like both prog rock and prog metal,from KC,Yes,E.L.P,Maxphone to PoS,Sym X & Sieges Even.Of course ,prog rock sounds deeper and more sophisticated,but prog metal is still worth listening to.

You forgot When Dream and Day Unite. A quite unique album I must say, the vocals are incredible.