I'm not a communist
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Topic: I'm not a communist
Posted By: jalas
Subject: I'm not a communist
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 10:26
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I have declared that communism is a good Idea, but I am not a communist. I want to get this clear, although my signature may have communists leaders, it is a joke as you can see with Karl Marx wearing a lamp shade on his head. It's telling people to joing the communist Party as in a festive occassion. It's just a silly joke.
In fact, I am a theocrat, so please, have a sense of humor and stop using my signature against me.
I still do think that Communism is the form of world government that most closely resembles Christianity, but it fails because of human error. True theocracy has never failed. ------------- 
JOIN THE COMMUNIST PARTY! |
Replies:
Posted By: progismylife
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 10:28
You commie!  Just kidding  |
Posted By: Sasquamo
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 10:31
| But if the entire government is based around a religion, what happens when one of the people no longer believes? That's the problem with theocracy. |
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 10:36
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lol i'd never be so involved with these insane machinations that I'd define my self as a "-cat" or a "-can" or an "-ist" of any sort. ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 11:18
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I agree. Communism is a great idea, IMO.
It just....dosn't work.
And I like your sig.
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Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 11:23
| Democracy doesn't work either, and that's because the majority of people are usually wrong. |
Posted By: darkmatter
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 11:25
| I never thought you were a communist, I just thought your signature was very humorous. |
Posted By: Tuzvihar
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 11:36
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Actually, you can consider communism a kind of religion. And communist parties were like local churches of this religion with the leader of the USSR being the Pope. Marx said also that religions are opium for masses. Communism became such opium itself. ------------- "Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent." Charles Bukowski |
Posted By: Tuzvihar
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 11:40
Democracy often turns into dictatorship of the majority (we won so we can do whatever we want and we don't care what others think of it). ------------- "Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent." Charles Bukowski |
Vompatti wrote:Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 11:52
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Communism might even work ... if people were good. Unfortunately history has proven that they're not. Power corrupts, and in any society - even if most of them were equal and content with their life - some people would need to have power in order to maintain stability. BTW: You think that communism is a "good idea", but you say that you're not a communist ... that makes no sense to me. You're either for it or against it - there's no in between.  ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to: 
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Posted By: kazansky
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 11:54
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corruption happens almost in every system though ------------- The devil we blame our atrocities on is really just each one of us. |
Posted By: jalas
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 12:07
Theocracy doesn't have borders. There could never be a nation that has a theocratic government. It's impossible. it's more of a way of life than anything else. -------------
JOIN THE COMMUNIST PARTY! |
Posted By: Chus
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 12:47
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Come on, I personally thought that was a funny signature, never thought of a communist that would take his ideology so lightly, so never thought you were one ------------- Jesus Gabriel |
Posted By: markosherrera
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 13:16
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I am not communist,but I am socialist ..but in pediatric dosis of course |
Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 13:52
Theocracy has never failed? After the English Civil War, England became a Puritan theocratic state (the Commonwealth of England), but right after Cromwell died, it colapsed again to become a constitutional monarchy. It was a theocracy for all of about 12 years. -------------   |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 15:30
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My son is not a communist! He might be a lier, a cheater, lazy, a communist... but he is not a porn star!  Abraham Simpson... you rule------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 15:34
Which means it's wrong idea...
------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: Ben2112
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 16:40
One of the best Simpson one-liners (or two-liners as it were) ever! It's just...so...Abe.
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Posted By: Kid-A
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 18:18
That's the problem
No offence to any Christians  ------------- 
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Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 19:07
and to think it used to be the other way around! ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Posted By: Chus
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 19:26
You mean the main problem with communism is the idea of sharing and to be equal one another?
So we all just must be greedy and only care about our own profits. Unless you don't really understand what Christianity is all about. ------------- Jesus Gabriel |
Posted By: jalas
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 20:24
True theocracy has no human leader nor does it have human borders. A country can never be a theocracy for a country is a concept that is of this world. Cromwell was a man capable of Human Error. A true theocracy means submitting to God who can make no mistakes. -------------
JOIN THE COMMUNIST PARTY! |
Posted By: Sasquamo
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 21:29
| The only problem is that now you don't have anyone to help organize things and provide modern rules, because God doesn't talk much... |
Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 23:21
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Precisely. And even when people claim to speak to him, the end up making contradictory claims. One can use God as a defense for anything, like a terrorist attack. Such a state could never exist, and that's not even taking into account my belief that there exists no such being.
------------- |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 00:17
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I am a libertarian communist! |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 00:20
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Foxtrot for me but Selling England is close...
oh, sorry.. |
Posted By: Rubidium
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 02:45
There's nothing wrong with the idea of communism. As an economic system it is very appealing and should theoretically work. The problem is that it should rely on a social planner to make all of the decisions for every person and firm in the economy. However, not all members of the economy have the same preferences, and it is impossible for the central planner to determine such preferences and hence resources cannot be allocated efficiently. Furthermore, even if the central planner were all knowing, allocating resources would require solving a system of millions of simultaneous equations, something that I highly doubt even the most powerful super computer could even come close to doing. While there are ways around these problems, it only increases the inefficiency of the economy. And that is the main problem of communism: inefficiency. |
Posted By: The Whistler
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 04:29
Oh, come now...aren't you just a little, say, prog-ist? A bit of a prog-ican, here or there? Prog-o-cat?
My two cents worth: it's NEVER a good idea to call a thread, "Now, I am NOT a(n) [insert controversy here], but..." But that's just me. ------------- "There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson |
Posted By: andu
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 04:35
@ jalas: ok then, but you should know that before you posted this about you, I read your posts as communist-oriented, because of the visual signs of your presence - avatar, signature & written message.
This is either a perfect oxymoron, or a joke I can't follow.
Aren't you proving your first sentence wrong with what you write next? Anyway, the problem with communism is much more grave: it's about about the denial of the basic human rights, especially freedom. Communism was set by its founders on the fundamentally absurd idea that it's proven right (which was not) and it must be unilaterally developed even against those others having other opinions. Hence the over one hundred million victims (those who thought different) made by communist regimes all over, and the general lack of freedom (those who were forbid to think different). One other major related problem was that communism was set on the idea that some people are fundamentally bad (the "exploiting class") and only some are good (the working class), and that the bad need to be fought and hated. This is where the fundamental difference with Christianity reveals itself beyond any cheap "they both rely on equality" talk. Christianity is a religion of love (even the bad people must be loved because we're all the same, they can redeem themselves just like any other in front of God); Communism is a policy of hate (some people are simply bad and they must be fought until our class will prevail). And mind you, the "exploiting class" didn't mean economy moguls for the communist regimes, but also people with private property, people with liberal professions, and basically any people who weren't of peasant/working class origins, or any people who thought different. Actually, the vast majority of the people on this forum would be considered by default, in a communist regime, actual or virtual enemies of the regime, and would be watched closely, persecuted and, depending on the context, prosecuted, emprisoned, deported, executed. Coming back to what you said, It is "only" poverty, hunger, economic failure that come from inefficiency. Fear, terror, death, these all come from other aspects of this wonderful ideology. ------------- "PA's own GI Joe!" 
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Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 05:04
I think that everything you described above is correct from economy point of view, and it only proves that idea of communism is wrong, as being inefficient and not workable in any society.
Moreover this idea is based on a wrong postulate of human equality, and, as anything based on a wrong grounds, it will never ever be able to work.
We all know what happens when a certain party is succesfully poisoning minds of many hungry and very well armed people in order to force their very wrong ideas onto society - same causes blood and destruction all around the place, Empires of Evil are born, and genetic fond of the several nations is being eliminated. I have some bright examples, if you are not yet aware about it.
There are many false but harmless ideas (called utopias), but communism is not one one of them. Bearing in mind all the disastrous troubles my country suffered due to this idea being forcefully imposed, I cannot treat it as a "nice fantasy" and can't agree with the statement that there is nothing wrong with it. ------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 05:13
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haha, andu beat me to it - he approached the subject from a slightly different perspective, and he's right as well
and mind you, I am not even anti-communist
------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: Forgotten Son
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 06:56
Sounds like capitalism to me. |
Posted By: andu
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 07:08
You may have hearing problems  Now, tell me haw many parties have managed, in the capitalist regimes, to "poison" so many minds that they (the parties) got to absolute power? From my knowledge, in the capitalist regimes some peoples' parties get the power, then different thinkin' people's parties overrule them and so on... I haven't heard of absolute party power in the capitalist regimes, can you prove me wrong? Regarding the second issue, you seem to live in a capitalist country. Can you tell me what well armed people have tried to force their opinions onto you? Sorry for being overly defensive here, but these are important matters for some of us. @eugene - thanks for enforcing truth with inside knowledge... ------------- "PA's own GI Joe!"
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Posted By: Kid-A
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 07:28
If you're of Christian faith everyone's equal, yeah. Don't pretend Christianity is a peaceful religion.
Anyway this is not the tplace for this.
Are yoy saying non-christians only care for our own profits?
-------------
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Posted By: Forgotten Son
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 07:40
Not at all. In answer to you question. Capitalist countries don't overtly enforce their views onto their own citizens, they have much more subtle networks of indoctrination to keep their people in line. What they do do though, is use their overwhelming military force to push other countries into obeying their economic wishes. Neo-Colonialism has been responsible for the propping up of dozens brutal regimes and fueling some of the most destructive wars, costing millions of lives in countries like Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Indonesia, Guatemala, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Chile. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a huge fan of Communism, definitely not it's variants like Leninism, Stalinism and Maoism, but capitalism has massive flaws too, flaws that have caused as much, if not more, suffering than Communism. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 07:44
a big hell yeah ^ to that..... very subtle indeed... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 11:23
Prior to comparing these two you should have at least some theoretical knowledge of both, but when/if you get such - you would never even make an attempt to compare the uncomparable.
I am correct to presume that you are 20 years old man born and brought up in developped capitalist country, luckily for you, lacking any practical knowldege of what communism is about ? If so, I can only give you an advice - read some books on this subject, and try to imagine that all George Orwell was fantasising about in his immortal "1984" was very close to day by day reality in the Soviet Union before 1987. And if then you choose to take on some documentary books about GULag, for instance, it will be easier for you to see the difference between "massive flaws of Capitalism" and "every day life under Communism".
To start with - just immagine that you neighbours report you for the music you listening to (very quietly) right now, and then you get jailed for it for indefinite period the same bloody night.
------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: Forgotten Son
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 11:26
Don't patronise me, please. Let's keep this civil. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 11:34
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Though I've always had leftist leanings, I hate any kind of dictatorship. Moreover, I think that people like Andu and Eugene, who actually lived under a Communist regime, know what they're talking about - therefore, contradicting their opinion is probably not a good idea. However, I'd like to add my two eurocents to the debate. What I really think is that human beings have the very unfortunate ability to twist and poison any idea or belief that may have started out as good. This is true of both socialism and capitalism, and especially so of organised religions like Christianity. The Catholic Church, throughout its history, has caused quite a few human deaths (that's an understatement), and still causes a lot of misery through its inflexibility on such matters as divorce and homosexuality. |
Posted By: Forgotten Son
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 11:50
I take it that was referring to me? I wasn't contradicting their opinions, in fact I agree with them in that I'm sure that the Soviet Bloc was a scary, unpleasant place to live. It must be noted, though, that the Communist manifesto wasn't written with Eastern Europe in mind, the Soviet brand of Communism was thus even more flawed. As I stated, Leninism and Stalinism are pretty abhorrent ideologies. My statements about Capitalism haven't been challenged, I note. Sorry to be perverse, but whenever I see one political ideology attacked, even one I dislike, I feel the need to play devil's advocate and point out that other, supposedly more desirable ideologies have flaws too, and capitalism is no exception. Eugene pointed out how horrible living under an oppressive regime can be and I totally agree, but dictatorships are not unusual to communism. As I mentioned, the largest capitalist state in the world sponsored many of the most bloodthirsty dictatorships, easily as awful, if not more so, than the Soviet Union.
Totally agree  |
Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 11:55
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I think no one here or anywhere else in their right mind would start to compare flaws of capitalism with flaws of faschism, and sufferings from these two, and no one would describe faschism as not a bad idea which did not work out properly. Just bear in mind that communist regime is worst than faschism in terms of both numbers of victims and day-by-day life.
------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 11:57
let's please do.... and remember.... that getting reported and jailed for your activities is not a thing of the past. If you aren't aware... in 'free' countries... you are watched, and things you say and do ARE reported and watched. Say what you will about the past... are the overt flaws and evils any worse than the subtle flaws and evils of our so-called more enlightened and ..hahha.. free societies. The shackles are there.... just more subtle.. thus in a way... far more dangerous. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 12:04
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The brutal effects of totalitarian regimes canot be measured in terms of deaths. Nazi-Fascism isn't better than Bolchevism just because the first scored 30 million deaths and the later scored 100 million deaths. They are (were) both EVIL, no matter if one or one billion were executed. ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 12:11
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far more dangerous hahahahaha ok then
we were so lucky to have very happy childhood, as all soviet children had, and wonderful youth with obvious thus far less dangerous shackles around our wrists
------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 12:14
that's true, but my point was that communism can be only compared to faschism, but not to capitalism of christianity or whatever else
and I agree - faschism isn't better, it's just for me that communism is worst
------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 12:14
not that I blame you in the least for feeling that way. I guess if the subject can't be discused dispassionately, which may not be possible, it shouldn't be at all. I'm out. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Forgotten Son
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 12:18
I have to dispute your numbers, there, though I agree with your general point. I'd say around 10-20 million people were killed under Stalin.
I disagree, but we're really moving into academic territory, now, grisly academia at that, as both are abhorrent and both killed millions of people. I don't think it helps anyone to work out which was more brutal and oppressive, the Soviet Union or Guatemala, for example. The major flaw in capitalism is that profit rules, capitalists will sell weapons to absolutely anyone, usually because the people they're selling them to will secure their interests. Suharto killed over 1 million people in Indonesia and East Timor with US and British weapons that we continued to supply over 25 years. The Shah in Iran was kept in power by US and British support coupled with his brutal torture squads. The US and their puppet governments killed up to 4 million people in Indochina and, after the Khmer Rouge were ousted by Vietnam, funded Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge in their terrorist attacks on Cambodia. The difference between fascism/communism and capitalism is this, capitalist countries are relatively free (though not totally) but keep in power dictatorships for their own profit and if a country step out of line, they bomb it to hell. |
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 12:39
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The death tolls I informed were just to emphasize my point. They aren't probably sure but they are huge, very huge, anyway. Check also that I compared Fascism with Bolshevism. I still think that "communism" is more an economic theory than a political praxis, but I agree that using this name many regimes raised. I used "bolshevism" here as a general term in the lack of a better one, for the case it exists. ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: kazansky
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 12:46
and all those killings were mostly caused by suspicion against the ex-communist party members, even their family and relatives were also included, or at least heavily surpressed between his reign. ------------- The devil we blame our atrocities on is really just each one of us. |
Posted By: Chus
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 13:18
The bug in the communist regime is simple, is that you can't rely on another human being to stand above the middle ground , because power corrupts. Every regime needs someone to administrate, if there wasn't, it would still be chaos; but when people feel any sort of power the thirst for control develops like a disease, hence we have tyrants like Stalin trying to self-proclaim themselves as leader of the country and starting a political repression. And what's the first thing they do? they BAN religions, thus the statement that christianity is the main problem in a communist regime is flat wrong, because there is no christianity in those regimes, as Marx himself said: "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness."
As far as my knowledge allows, Marx doesn't promote political repression; though many of the so called "communist regimes" make use of it in answer to the power they'd self-given. Another issue is that as private property is banned, people have no motivations, because individualism always prevails, thus with communism, everything deteriorates. ------------- Jesus Gabriel |
Posted By: Rubidium
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 13:18
I believe that the idea of communism and the ability to implement it are completely separate. In a perfect world, communism should work. Of course, the world is not perfect. At any rate, the distinction between the two is moot because communism cannot be effectively implemented: I think there is plenty of evidence of that. You do raise an important point that I failed to consider. I implicitly assume that the central planner of the economy is just and wants to allocate resources efficiently while all the individuals in the economy are willing to have these decisions made by somebody else. In a perfect world this maybe be true, but in reality it certainly isn't. |
Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 15:30
Words of wisdom.
I can't blame anyone here for an objective lack of understanding of what communism is in practice - it's none of their fault - moreover it's their luck. It just some light-hearted theoretical statements and comparisons are a bit hard for someone to treat dispassionately. And having lived for more than 8 years abroad in so called developped and free country, I am aware of some flaws of capitalism and it's hidden shackles as well
 .I'm out as well. Bought Henry Cow/Slapp Happy album today, and it's wonderful - could not even imagine it in my wildest dreams just 25 years ago. Memories are still very much alive.
------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: Hyperborea
Date Posted: April 07 2007 at 20:33
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True communism is the way ahead.......main problem being, someone still thinks that they are better than the rest.
Christianity, always had a figurehead, god, christ etc, it all depends on where you stand, however, at least communism has been proven to have existed.
A bit late...burt Cromwell was a fanny (UK meaning). ------------- As i race o'er this beautiful sphere, Like a dog who is chasing his..... |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 08 2007 at 07:50
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No state has achieved true communism that I'm aware of. The Soviet Union never achieved communism, obviously. I don't see it working on a state level (there must be the dismantling of the centralized state before it can work). But I won't involve myself too much in this discussion as I've spent too much time discussing this over the years, and many people have made great points already. True communism is too widely misunderstood. I'm an admirer of Marx for his economic models. While I once called myself a communist, these days I'm a moderate socialist and advocate for more direct democracy (I don't consider representative democracy to be true democracy). But that is tempered with certain Libertarian tendencies. As for Jalas, especially due to your Romero avatar, I thought of you as a socialist and an admirer of liberation theology. Romero is a hero of mine, incidentally. ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |