Split Enz are finally on the Archives!!!!
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Topic: Split Enz are finally on the Archives!!!!
Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Subject: Split Enz are finally on the Archives!!!!
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 06:04
I'm so glad they're on it now, it was tough convincing everyone, but many thanks goes to Seantrane for thier addition. I hope many of you will discover thier albums and find them out for their uniqueness.
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Replies:
Posted By: valravennz
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 06:09
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Yes - nice to see another NZ group make the Archives. Split Enz are quite deserving of their inclusion. ------------- 
"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence" - Robert Fripp |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 06:28
Hurrah! 
I really like Split Enz. I love Second Thoughts and Time And Tide especially.
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Posted By: Terra Australis
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 06:56
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Split Enz early work is unique and quirky and... 'Stranger than Fiction' grabbed me during the seventies and 'Charlie' is sublime. ------------- Allomerus. Music with progressive intent. http://allomerus.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow - http://allomerus.bandcamp.com |
Posted By: The Rock
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 07:32
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Now lets have GOLDEN EARRING!!! ------------- What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop" |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 07:43
Two of my favourite songs as well...
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Terra Australis wrote:Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 07:56
| Proto-NeoProg band...very good they are here |
Posted By: akin
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 08:30
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Their first albums are fine. I'd feel better if they were in
Prog-Related because their addition in a regular prog genre will lead
to many requests that will be undeniable at least prog-related. Anyway we have some angry collabs to deal with this 
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Posted By: Heptade
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 09:17
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Er, sorry about that discography...I guess I turned out to be too busy. ------------- The world keeps spinning, people keep sinning And all the rest is just bullsh*t -Steve Kilbey |
Posted By: Snakes & Arrows
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 11:33
I don`t suppose while we are letting a few in we could think about adding Genesis 
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Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 11:40
..WHO?
 -------------  Prog Archives Tour Van 
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Posted By: Frippertron
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 11:41
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What is prog about Split Enz???
80s NZ Pop! ------------- The Cheerful Insanity of Prog Rock |
Posted By: proggy
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 11:42
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!
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Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 12:03
Maybe there are two things you could consider doing - 1) listen to their 70s output, which you ill find shows definite English music hall influences, beatlesque melancholy & some definite "art rock" attitude; 2 ) their later work, especially moved them into heavier lyrical territory & if you give Time & Tide a serious listen you will hear a "poppish" version of prog that most of the 70s prog pantheon quite indulged themselves in during the 80s. Pay special attention during the 2nd side (Take a Walk to Make Sense of It) & tell me what you think. I have no problem with Yes, Genesis, King Crimson, Rush, Pink Floyd et al and their 80s' work. So the music changed. Can one peruse your closest dictionary to verify the definition of the word "progressive" ? ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice, Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Frippertron
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 12:04
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Just waiting for Peter, Paul and Mary to be added.
Puff The Magic Dragon.. a Prog classic  ------------- The Cheerful Insanity of Prog Rock |
Posted By: Snakes & Arrows
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 12:25
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Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 12:37
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People who
a. Are saying that Split Enz has no connections with prog and
b. Haven't listened to Mental Notes or Second Thoughts should do their homework, and in this case... homework can be much fun
 Split Enz is fantastic. Their early albums, but also later albums like Waiata / Corroboree and Time and Tide are awesome.
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Posted By: Frippertron
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 12:41
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It just seems to be there are too many links to Progressive music, which on the whole is not at all prog.
Jazz Fusion is not Prog Rock for starters! (Bruford, Soft Machine etc)
Split Enz is pop, I have heard their old stuff, and sorry to say.. still pop.
You could start an argument on why INXS are not there in that case. Same type of music as Split Enz.
I do like Split Enz btw, but having keyboards and guitar does not always equate to Prog Rock. ------------- The Cheerful Insanity of Prog Rock |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 12:47
I do think Bruford's late '70's / early '80's albums are a prime example of prog rock, even when the albums are a blend with fusion.
Split Enz isn't here just on the archives because of the keyboards / guitars, but because of early albums like Mental Notes and Second Thoughts, which feature several long pieces with quite experimental, yet very melodious passages, which are much closer to prog than to pop. If the earlier albums weren't there, I suppose the argument to get them on PA would be much harder, I admit that much.
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Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 13:25
Again we're faced with the conundrum of accepting that even "prog" artists in most cases will have their music change over their career. Especially the acts that had or have a long term career. So we don't boot out Yes, Genesis, King Crimson, Rush for having moved to shorter more compact & concise songs. We instead focus on the lyrical content which is still more "advanced" than your typical pop hit. & the instrumentation still remains of the highest order. And if we say that we will determine a group's inclusion on more than a few albums or songs, then we can kiss most of prog-related, proto prog goodbye. Can you say Uriah Heep or Deep Purple ? Is Dark Side of the Moon really prog ? There is really only one song that is out there & that is because it consists of synthesizer noodling. The rest are melancholy & darkness put to music, often blues or folk based in nature. King Crimson's 80s work - isn't that really more new wave, kind of Talking Heads sort of music ? Jean Michel Jarre - Oxygene - disco synthesizer beats & playing ? Let's admit that inclusion or exclusion is really a community process arbritrated by Admin, and these two groups being composed of humans using subjective measures means that there willo be some contentious nominations. True, Split Enz do have a "pop" streak a mile wide. They are able to write excellent melodies sometimes sunny. sometimes dark. They don't write 20 minutes songs, although on Time & Tide they did put together a 4 song suite with intro & all. But if you go through their discography, you will find enough to content most prog fans. Not all, not even 75 %. But for those who were fans of the prog dinosaurs progress over the years, those people can find something to satisfy their prog taste if they listen with an open mind. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice, Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Heptade
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 13:35
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Anyone who would compare the Enz to Peter Paul and Mary needs to be strapped down and made to listen to Mental Notes twice a day.
And by the way, the Finn brothers are musical geniuses. ------------- The world keeps spinning, people keep sinning And all the rest is just bullsh*t -Steve Kilbey |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 15:00
And then put to bed listening to Time & Tide and realize you need a friend to help you make sense of it ... ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice, Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 15:17
Split Enz??Excellent pop band but prog
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Posted By: Heptade
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 15:21
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As has been noted before in many threads, half the acts on this site could easily be said to not be prog at all, so why not? If having prog elements somewhere in your discography qualifies a band to be here, then sorry, the Enz are in! ------------- The world keeps spinning, people keep sinning And all the rest is just bullsh*t -Steve Kilbey |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 15:32
Okay, that is true as well. There's a big human factor in the decision whether a band / artist will be considered prog or not. Good point. You'd almost forget with all the people who are so sure wether a band is prog or not. Oops, sometimes I'm one of them, sorry 'bout that
 .As for the Enz albums, yes, I do think that there is more prog to them then just the extended songs of the different versions of the debut album. I think even a lot of the later, shorter songs have a definite prog streak. Indeed, the songs on Time and Tide, maybe my favourite album of the group, are song-based, but very innovative songs.
Prog or non prog? I think the term "prog-related" is a good buffer for the bands which are doubtful cases. For the rest: an open mind is what we need. And great music of The Enz
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 16:57
Ian, I must say that four months ago I thought as you did (except I didn't consider them excellent)!!!
Because like most Canadians, we missed most if not all of their 70's output and by the time they got on our market, they'd become a new wave outfit. Much like the first real exposition from AC/DC was though Highway to hell , but in their case, all theback catalogue got domestic reissues.
But I was astounded that these guys had records that dated as early as 75, so Ihad to investigate. The first albums are between Genesis (even Gabriel era) , The Sparks, Queen and such ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 16:58
Round and round we go what is prog? What isn`t prog?
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 17:00
¨^^^^^
What we like?
 Seriously givethem a shot. I'll try to find my review of their debut in my memory stick and post it. ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 17:01
AC/DC ! And glad to be !  You know, maybe that's the way to go - it may be easier to say what's not prog. Of course, we're still faced with groups who put out the one or two albums that almost "fringe" on prog, like say the Stones & At their Satanic Majesties Request. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice, Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 17:37
They actually did have a 15 minute epic called Nightmare Stampede during the Judd era, unfortunately it wasn't put on a studio album, you can only hear it live on the Box set Oddz and Enz ------------- |
Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 18:47
thats ok , Terra Australis and I were more than happy to sort it out in the end.------------- |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 21:02
Gotta find that Nightmare Express song now ... and how can we have any hard feelings now that the Enz can find more frenz  ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice, Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 21:11
Nightmare STAMPEDE, I've only read about it and know its a prog epic with lots of stops and starts in it. I hope they release it someday, Its on the boxset oddz and enz. I think Heptade mght be the guy to ask about it We should harrass Mushroom records or the Finn's to release it on CD of some sort, that isn't ultra expensive box set. ------------- |
Posted By: Snakes & Arrows
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 21:18
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about twenty years ago I lent a guy at work the best of Kansas tape , he asked me when he gave the tape back if I ever heard any early split enz, I said I hadn't heard any early stuff by them, he said that they are not typical pop there's some prog elements and I may like them, but I dismissed the idea on account of tunes like "I see red" ... maybe I better check them out
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Posted By: Losendos
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 21:35
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Split Enz is pop and shouldn't be here. Maybe a prog elements category could be added for bands which have a tiny element of prog but then you may end up with a collosal listing. Even prog related is going too far ------------- How wonderful to be so profound |
Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 21:42
As we have all said for at least fifty times LISTEN TO MENTAL NOTES ------------- |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 18 2007 at 11:57
And, of course, the second side of Time & Tide, or in this CD age, the last 6 songs.  ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice, Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: May 18 2007 at 15:38
Really! I didn't know that, not that there was such a box. I bought the last Enz album quite some years ago. Thanks for the tip.
 By the way, has anyone of you listened to Schnell Fenster? If yes, can you recommend it?
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Posted By: Melomaniac
Date Posted: May 18 2007 at 15:42
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I have never even heard the name of the band before they were inducted on PA. I have absolutely no idea of what they sound like, though I am curious. Anyone care to recommend me their best piece of wrok so I might investigate ?
Thanks ! ------------- "One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 18 2007 at 15:49
Well, as you may have read here, most consider Mental Notes & Dizrhythmia as their most proggish. I also love Time & Tide, which is considered their latter day masterpiece. I believe Amazon.com and other sites may have the usual 30 second samples that would give you an idea. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice, Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Hyperborea
Date Posted: May 18 2007 at 20:41
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Surely crowded house must be prog too.....same people different nonsense (strong hint of sarcasm).
------------- As i race o'er this beautiful sphere, Like a dog who is chasing his..... |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 18 2007 at 21:19
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The addition of Split Enz to ArtRock was a very careful and highly discussed process. Like many others here, I had simply not heard their early albums and once I investigated, found a very arty, creative and talented band who became pop but whose most important work was highly progressive. This is true for many prog rock bands at that time, Argent for one, and a little band called Genesis.
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Posted By: it was impulse
Date Posted: May 18 2007 at 21:26
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I've never even heard of Split-Enz. Are they any good? What kind of style are they? Are they like Genesis? ------------- nigel |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 18 2007 at 21:31
No, not in sound. |
Posted By: Terra Australis
Date Posted: May 18 2007 at 22:07
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The thing that stands out about Early Enz with Judd was the sense of wackyness/absurdity with drama and a touch of music Hall? The fantastic keyboards/Piano and the wonderful vocals of Tim Finn. Listen to 'Charlie' on Dizrhythmia for some of Tim's best singing... As for Scnell Fenster I have it on LP but haven't listened to it for a long time. Might have to get it out. While we are talking about great stuff from Australasia (in Split Enzs case NZ) some lovely prog music with an absurd edge was 'Spectrum/Ariel', the main writer being Mike Rudd. In particular: Spectrum CD Milesago the song: 'A fly without it's wings' Ariel CD A Strange Fantastic Dream: song: 'Garden of the Frenzied Cortinas' This song is prog bliss... http://www.mikeruddbillputt.com/CDs/CDs_page.htm#ariel ------------- Allomerus. Music with progressive intent. http://allomerus.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow - http://allomerus.bandcamp.com |
Posted By: Kim Ankara
Date Posted: May 19 2007 at 09:47
Using the same sentiment one could claim "What is prog about Yes? They were famous for being 80s AOR". Early Enz passes my prog litmus test: when my father heard Mental Notes he commented it must've been during their "drugged up" period. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 19 2007 at 10:54
No, Crowded House write perfect pop songs. And for clarification purposes, here goes the line-up info : Neil Finn kept Paul Hester as drummer, who had played on the last gasp Split Enz album "See Ya Round". Nick Seymoour was added as bassist. Keyboards, when present, were played by Mitchell Froom on the albums, when needed, but usually left aside when played live. Crowded House did keep the loose irreverant stage attitude that the Enz displayed in concert. Tim Finn joined for one album, the harder edged (for pop) Woodface. Tim left during the following tour. For Alone Together, the group added guitarist Mark Hart. And while you certainly have your opinion, your choice of words show more snobbishness than sarcasm. Sarcasm usually has a bit of humour, which you seem to lack, but which Crowded House had in spades. So they weren't prog. But they were pretty good. P.S. I'm assuming you're a sore loser because the Enz have gotten in despite your disagreement. Hopefully we can give your future suggestions the same rigorous snotting over that you seem to deem the Finn bros bands. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice, Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: May 20 2007 at 02:40
I'd say influenced If you like Counting Out Time by Genesis I suppose that wouldn't be too far off an Enz song, but don't get me wrong they are quite idiosyncratic. ------------- |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: May 24 2007 at 11:08
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Then why aren`t The Talking Heads here Eh ! Eh ! Not that I think that they belong here but they were in the same vein as Split Enz. I mean c`mon don`t get me wrong both are excellent pop bands and I have some albums by each of them. But I just don`t think that someone looking for information, reviews etc on these bands would look in this site for them plus they`re not really clear cut examples of "progressive music".
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Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: May 24 2007 at 18:00
FOUR WORDS: LISTEN TO MENTAL NOTES ------------- |
Posted By: moodyxadi
Date Posted: May 24 2007 at 19:42
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Stop this silly discussion and come to the next (and most important) step: ABBA in ProgArchives. ------------- Bach, Ma, Bros, Dιia, Dante. |
Posted By: Hyperborea
Date Posted: May 24 2007 at 20:43
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Oh well, there's a first for everything.........me a snob?........Maggie Thatcher working class?.......Bon Scott Australian?
There is nothing ever to suggest that Split Enz are prog/gish, one or two albums don't make you prog. That doesn't make them bad, just not prog.
But then again, anything out of the ordinary seems to gain notoriety and thus included in prog.
Finally i thought humour in prog was belittled, specially in ELP's case. or has there been a backhander somewhere. ------------- As i race o'er this beautiful sphere, Like a dog who is chasing his..... |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 24 2007 at 21:40
Ditto. As for the Heads, they had the new wave influence then they morphed in to a world beat type group. The lyrics may have been comparable to prog lyrics, but the music was not. So go listen to Metal Notes, Dizrythmia, jump to Time & Tide. Then come back. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice, Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 24 2007 at 21:41
You may laugh, but if it was solely a matter of intricate arrangements (music wise) they would be a shoo-in. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice, Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 24 2007 at 21:42
Wasn't Bon Scott a scottish immigrant ? Ye bonny scot ... ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice, Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 24 2007 at 21:52
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Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: May 24 2007 at 22:36
THE FIRST 7 YEARS OF THEIR CAREER WERE PROG 1972-1979 ------------- |
Posted By: akin
Date Posted: May 25 2007 at 12:20
And Journey. Seriously, same case of Split Enz. |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: May 25 2007 at 16:59
I actually have a few ABBA albums and like slapping them on the turntable every now and then. I`ve heard everything ( just about ) by Split Enz. Still not prog .
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 25 2007 at 18:59
No, not really.. at least not when the early work of both bands are compared. |
Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: May 25 2007 at 19:06
What albums haven't you heard by them? ------------- |
Posted By: Hyperborea
Date Posted: May 25 2007 at 20:39
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'I got you' was obviously such a classic prog song, that i bought it for it's decent pop content.
I worked with a New Zealand panel beater, who knew his music, and he never ever hinted at Split Enz being prog. I like SE but prog...... ------------- As i race o'er this beautiful sphere, Like a dog who is chasing his..... |
Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: May 25 2007 at 21:55
Wow I didn't know that panel beaters were music experts on Whats Prog and What Isn't, we should make all the Panel beaters on this website Collabs!!! ------------- |
Posted By: Terra Australis
Date Posted: May 26 2007 at 07:45
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I am amazed this discussion is going on... Split Enz are here to stay! And I like them... And they made great music. ------------- Allomerus. Music with progressive intent. http://allomerus.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow - http://allomerus.bandcamp.com |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 00:00
^ no doubt.. just got the Mental Notes remaster 
how much more progressive could you be in 1975... c'mon. |
Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 02:13
I've got to get the Mental Notes remaster as well as the Frenzy, Second Thoughts, Conflicting Emotions and Dizrthmia remasters. Tell me, is the Mental Notes remaster and improvement? I know that the Frenzy remaster is quite a departure from the original with longer tracks etc. ------------- |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 02:19
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it sounds great.. but it does have two bonus tracks, both live in Melbourne 1975, '129' and 'Lovey Dovey', and may disrupt the original flow for you
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Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 02:23
That's great, a lot of their early live stuff is not really available, I'm still hoping they'll release Nightmare Stampede on an affordable CD ------------- |
Posted By: akin
Date Posted: May 28 2007 at 07:54
Why not? Journey first three albums are proggish. They started their career as a prog band, but in a different genre. |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: May 28 2007 at 14:23
.------------- |
Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: May 28 2007 at 17:02
Ok ------------- |
Posted By: Jon89
Date Posted: May 28 2007 at 21:08
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Split Enz and Crowded House are not prog in any way shape or form as they are more pop and rock than prog and they should not be discussed here on this forum thankoyu very much. If you want to you can go to http://www.frenzforum.com - www.frenzforum.com and chat there about Split Enz and Crowded Hous there but difinitely not here thankyou ------------- jon 89 |
Posted By: Jon89
Date Posted: May 28 2007 at 21:09
 ------------- jon 89 |
Posted By: valravennz
Date Posted: May 28 2007 at 21:53
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^^ Your personal opinion but as Split Enz are now included in PA then I think we have every right to discuss them - ad infinitum ... -------------
"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence" - Robert Fripp |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 28 2007 at 22:19
not only that, but having now repeatedly heard the 'Mental Notes' remaster and the second album, I don't see how early Split Enz is anything other than bonafied art rock. Complex arrangements, much use of synths, mellotron, and non-rock instrumentation, classical influences and thematic tendencies. Again, would you exclude Genesis (an influence on Split Enz) because half their catalog is commercial pop? Sure Genesis was more important but it would be inappropriate for a progressive rock archives to not include this band. |
Posted By: valravennz
Date Posted: May 28 2007 at 23:46
A very appropriate comment and might I add that Split Enz's Art Rock style can be heard in all of their albums, even on just one or two tracks. Some of the Finn Brothers ballads especially on their later albums, are worthy of giving their music a prog chance in themselves. I am quite suspicious that some of the negative criticsm of the Enz in this thread is due to the fact that there is a large amount unfamiliarity with their earlier work or any work other than their well known singles eg: Six Months In a Leaky Boat, History Never Repeats, One Step Ahead and I See Red. Split Enz provide a quirky and humorous addition to a sometimes serious and heavy music repetoire that many of us indulge in.  -------------
"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence" - Robert Fripp |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 28 2007 at 23:53
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that's right, as with many other bands whose main catalog one must hear to see the changes in style but retention of art leanings.
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Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 29 2007 at 11:40
Nah, I say we chuck any band that released one album or more of decidely unprog music, i.e. short songs, lyrics that make sense & a point, limited number of time/tempo changes, longer / shorter hair, contemporary cover art, you know just about anything that you can't use to make yourself feel superior to those that don't have the musical taste necessary to distinguish good music, eh. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice, Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 29 2007 at 18:06
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Posted By: Hyperborea
Date Posted: May 29 2007 at 20:04
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To cheesecakemouse...xxxxxxxxxxx...this guy knew, probably still does, more about music than you ever will. As for being a panel beater, i hope he catches up with you sooner, rather than later...split enz prog
Sorry had to change my sodden boxers...keep peeing them when i hear they are prog. ------------- As i race o'er this beautiful sphere, Like a dog who is chasing his..... |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 29 2007 at 20:08
^ why hasn't this asshole been banned yet.... is he to be warned again.... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: May 29 2007 at 20:11
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@ Hyperborea: transforming a post into a personal issue is the closest way to see the post deleted or the entire thread closed. I believe the discussion here is related to Split Enz and not to the posters.
Let's keep civil the discussion, please. Thanks! ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: Asyte2c00
Date Posted: May 29 2007 at 20:13
Micky, Split Enz over Japan? and to think you added Rain Tree Crow (effectively a reunited Japan) and not Japan itself is bweildering to me and many new wave fans alike.
I made a double take when I originally saw Rain Tree Crow in PA and not Japan.
Japan is more prog than Split Enz. I enjoy SE, but to see this less progressive new wave band enter PA over more outwardly progressive-new wave rock outfits like Japan is just shocking.
No hard feelings
 |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 29 2007 at 20:15
none taken ....
I think you know I pushed for Japan.... and was outvoted. Wasn't
the first... though it was the last hahahhaha. Hopefully they will have a place on the site if something can be done with the AR sub-genre. Which the AR team has been working on. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Hyperborea
Date Posted: May 29 2007 at 20:16
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To asyst ..........and your problem is???
------------- As i race o'er this beautiful sphere, Like a dog who is chasing his..... |
Posted By: Hyperborea
Date Posted: May 29 2007 at 20:20
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i think i'm vindicated in what i said...cheesecakemouse was doubting the opinions of a person from NZ, regardless of occupation, as being insignificant. I stand by the fact he has/had more musical knowledge than him (chesecakemouse). ------------- As i race o'er this beautiful sphere, Like a dog who is chasing his..... |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 29 2007 at 20:38
yes that comes back to a problem I have with the way bands are looked at here at PA's. It is not consistant at all. you have different teams ...and differrent standards. speaking for the two teams I was on.... I don't give a damn what they did later... this is a prog site... if they did prog albums.. they should be here.. and judged upon their prog albums. For many Italian groups in RPI... they may have done an album or even several while riding the wave of the movement then either gone back to or moved on to greener pastures musically (musos have to eat as well.). We judge them upon their prog works only... of course .. the whole discography must be included.. but the balance of reviews will tell someone interested in the artist.. which albums are more pertinent to a 'prog site' and it's posters. With AR ...we in a way did the same thing... what groups like Split Enz did after their prog phase... again.. means nothing here. If you are at this site... you are interested in prog.. It's the prog albums that mattered. Split Enz was accepted by every member of the AR team. We heard the music.. and judged it to be prog. If people like you.. Hyperborea.. have a problem with that... then tell me I don't know prog. Please.. tell me I don't... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Hyperborea
Date Posted: May 29 2007 at 20:48
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Ok.......you don't.
------------- As i race o'er this beautiful sphere, Like a dog who is chasing his..... |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 29 2007 at 21:00
hahahhahaha good man, you're a troll alright.. but one with some backbone at least.. I honestly don't care if you agree or disagree with it or not. I think posters like you are a problem this site faces.. and I'd like to see you gone. Not agreeing is fine.. there is lots of that here. Doing it with some respect and style is the way it has to be done. I haven't seen anything of that out of you. Anyhow... they were voted on by a team of those the site deems as knowing prog. Simply, if you don't like it or think the site and those who work for it don't know prog.. .go find another site. As far as the topic at hand....You'll open your trap one time too many and this thread will be closed at some point.... and Split Enz will still be here. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 29 2007 at 21:03
And how would you measure musical knowledge ? By the amount of music listened to ? By the number of University degrees accumulated ? By the alignment of taste with certain groups ? I wonder if your estimate of his knowledge is based more on a similarity of views. And as for being from New Zealand, the relevancy escapes me. So I believe I have some reason to think that you are merely stirring up trouble, as taking any music topic with so much energy requires a lack of anything better to do. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice, Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Hyperborea
Date Posted: May 29 2007 at 21:11
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No troll, but i have an opinion....and balls..definitely.....sick of non-prog bands appearing on here...maybe time i moved back to a more idealistic prog site...rather than one that ponders to the masses, Regardles of music significance. ------------- As i race o'er this beautiful sphere, Like a dog who is chasing his..... |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 29 2007 at 21:31
Nice to see your True Colours. I've made some Mental Notes re : your various quotes. Time & Tide pass, but your "snobbishness" seems to stay put over the inclusion of one group. I have Conflicting Emotions when it comes to "elitism", as this site includes in its' goals the participatory effect of community, i.e. the so called "masses" should have their say. As if this site has a million Britney Spears/Beyonce/Backstreet Boys' fans just waiting to take over. I think Waiata you're trying to say is that this band does not meet with your narrow definition as to what prog is. You seem to go into a Frenzy at the mere idea that others may have an opinion that differs from your own. If freedom of opinion & the inherent possibility that it may support something with which you disagree with, then I say See Ya Round. Balls, is when you stand up for something that may cause more than just a dissenting argument. Email debates are not perilous except to one's ego, when one is shown to be, if not wrong, then not completely right. Moving to a more idealistic prog site seems like a web site devoted & limited to one person's views. After all, if one person has a different understanding of what is prog, does that mean this idealistic site loses its' idealism. And to finish, the word is "panders", not ponders. This site may indeed pander to its members ( I can't see that we are sufficient in number to be called "masses"), but again, that is part of the site's stated goals. The site is a shared experience, not a top down handing off of the prog commandments. Then recall the musical significance afforded the Beatles, Bob Dylan, Elvis, Robert Johnson, Louis Armstrong and others at their inception. Time will answer that question, not you , nor I, nor anyone at this site. The only factual statement that you can lay claim to is what you like or dislike, what you think is prog or not. You, and many before you do not have an objective means of defining ANY genre of music, much less what should be listed among musical acts here at PA. So if you have actual arguments, points, or opinions to offer, fine. But the simple claim that you somehow know better is not impressive. And the ongoing shuffle should be brought to a quick end. If it is something you feel so strongly about, leave. There are groups, ranking, ratings etc, that I disagree with here at PA. But nowhere is it stated that they are unquestionable or consist of absolute truth. They are just the reflection of the community's opinion, nothing more, nothing less. Damn, I couldn't work Dizrythmia in ... ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice, Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 29 2007 at 21:39
everyone has opinions... some are informed ...some are not.... you want yours respected... here's your chance.... what in their 70's albums strikes you as not being prog.... you say you have an opinion... put it to words. In won't matter for this particular debate... but prove me wrong that you haven't heard a damned thing from them in this period.. and I'll give someone you don't have... respect. I assume you are smart enough not to open your big mouth on subjects you don't know about. Break down for me their first 3 albums.. you publicly insult other members... back in up.... in public. I haven't in 2 years here called anyone out before... you've earned it though.... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: May 29 2007 at 22:24
You made out that this guy was an authroity on music but without any basis to measure it, I was making a joke as a result. Do not insult me, I feel you are trolling. And because of that I am not going to waste any more time on you. Thankyou. ------------- |
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: May 29 2007 at 22:28
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Everything needed to be said about SE was already said and there's no need to go ahead with this thread. Topic closed!
------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |