Magma, what's there to get :-)
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=38327
Printed Date: July 18 2025 at 12:12
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Topic: Magma, what's there to get :-)
Posted By: progbaby
Subject: Magma, what's there to get :-)
Date Posted: May 25 2007 at 13:24
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Hi All:
Magma fans, please don't take offense to this as my intention is not to cause any trouble. I've been a prog fan for years and have been exposed to the many prog bands from England, Italy, France, Germany, South America, etc...
Magma is a band that I've tried numerous times to "get into" but always find myself annoyed by the vocals and the (what I feel to be (but others may disagree)) "pretentious" chanting.
A few years back on another forum, someone posted a message to the tune of "I love Magma as I get it now". After reading, they did not really say what it is that they "get" but that they "get it" and that's why they love Magma. I'm trying my damndest fo figure out and analyze what it is that they "get"??? My impression (although maybe darn wrong) of Magma is a bunch of musicians who may have smoked too much of the weed and decided "let's make up a language of our own and a fictious story about a civilization in another world and whine and wail and squeak the vocals to the backdrop of polyrhythmic structures and call ourselves Magma". Other than that, what's there to "get"???
In Magma's defense, I have to admit that I do find that I like the instrumental sections with the drum and bass guitar solos. Magma's music tends to have good rhythm. I'd much rather listen to an ALL instrumental Magma album but I guess there is none? But as it stands, I fail to get past 2-3 minutes of their music as the chanting (made up Kobain language which comes across as drug-induced or perhaps maybe even pompous) and wailing of the vocalists cause to to stop listening further.
Can others maybe offer their advice as to what they see and like in Magma? Maybe if I see things from that perspective, I could try them again. However, as much as I don't currently like Magma, I DO like Eskaton's 4 visions. Go figure!!! Maybe it's just that I don't like "male operatic wailing" and since Eskaton had female vocals, I could handle it
 I could not agree more with this review of a Magma album
http://www.vintageprog.com/mmm.htm#mek - http://www.vintageprog.com/mmm.htm#mek
Only he makes it further into the album before he shuts it off
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Replies:
Posted By: Mikerinos
Date Posted: May 25 2007 at 13:42
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I didn't like Magma at first, but back then I wasn't into much prog besides the usual several bands. As my taste developed, so did my appreciation for Magma as well as other more obscure and less-accessible bands. The vocals just grew on me, I thought they were funny and odd at first, but never really were annoyed by them (in fact, I can tolerate and even enjoy most prog vocalists, from LaBrie to Vander). All the Magma albums I own have vocals (I have 7 or so now) , and I don't know of any that are insturmental. Eskaton are more accessible than Magma, as is Dun's Eros, which is awesome. Have you heard any full albums yet? I didn't appreciate them as much until I got Udu Wudu, which turned out to be their most accessible but still weird and awesome. And as great as that album was, to my surprise 1001, MDK, Kohntarkosz and Live 1975 turned out to be even better.  Wow, I'm such a fanboy... ------------- 
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Posted By: Speesh
Date Posted: May 25 2007 at 13:48
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I often feel the same way about "Trout Mask Replica", I can only hope it will make sense one day. Though now I certainly don't see anything to get there even after many attempted listens. As for Magma it may just be one of those things that just doesn't appeal to you. I liked Magma from the first listen. I like all of the positive points you brought up, but I really like the stuff you hate as well, the chanting and whatnot. I guess it is just a love it or hate it kind of thing. |
Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: May 25 2007 at 15:18
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Some "get" Magma and some don't. What people actually "get" when they say they "got" it is probably very subjective, which can explain why you're not aware of what there is to get. A tip though, if you realise that you just don't "get" a certain band after repeated attempts to do so, stop worrying about it and listen to something you have "got" already instead!  |
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: May 25 2007 at 15:23
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I got into Magma through Udu Wudu as well. I had tried MDK before that, and didn't like it at all. I do now, of course. If you've already heard their debut and don't love that either, I don't know what to tell you. One of the most beautiful albums I know of. I listened to it atleast once every day for months when I first discovered it. And the vocals sounds fantastic to my ears. I love the whole concept: the planet and language, the energy, fun, darkness and madness. Everyone who's ever been in the band during the 70's were extremely talented, so every single element in their music is interesting to me. BTW: Christian Vander was defenatly not a stoner. More like a mad genious. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: MusicForSpeedin
Date Posted: May 25 2007 at 16:17
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I only "get" Magma when I am by myself in a dark room and can actually focus on the music. If I have it just playing I start to find it annoying. It is great how I can love it and hate it all at the same time. The joys of the brain.
I guess it is just one of those things where you either get it or don't. It is pointless to try to like something just because everyone else does.
I still don't like Genesis.
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Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: May 25 2007 at 16:39
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progbaby says :"I'm trying my damndest fo figure out and analyze what it is that they "get"???", - and this is probably where the mistake is - you should not do this at all - you either "get it" or not or you will get it later on or not etc etc etc - does not matter
I personally disliked Magma at first, then after a long while they sounded interesting to me, later on I started to like it in some parts, and now I think it's a great band. However I still find Eskaton "4 visions" and Dun "Eros" to be much more to my likings.
Just ignore these "get" things - there is probably nothing to get really for you. For me same thing happens with Can and Faust - I think there is absolutely nothing to get - they sound to me simple, primitive, ugly and downright boring, and I do not think I miss anything by not listening to them, and consider all the time spent in attempts to "get" into their music as wasted time. However I know several people, whom I respect, with generally good musical taste, who find these bands to be absolutely brilliant. It's only good for them.
------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: rushaholic
Date Posted: May 25 2007 at 16:45
Isn't it odd what some people like and others think is ugly. I love Can and I love Faust. As for Magma, I am still trying. I have several of their albums but I find myself listening to Udu Wudu the most. |
eugene wrote:Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: May 25 2007 at 16:51
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^^^I do not think it's odd, quite to the contrary I think it's normal. ------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: Sckxyss
Date Posted: May 25 2007 at 17:19
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I made the mistake of starting with M.D.K at first, and really didn't like it. The vocals just sounded like nonsense. Then I tried Udu Wudu, which re-sparked my interest, and Kohntarkosz, which solidified it. I love them more and more with everything I listen to now.
I can fully understand someone who doesn't like the vocals. Heck, I don't even love them, but the music behind it is amazingly composed and played, and I don't think the vocals (save maybe a few on M.D.K) take anything from the music.
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Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: May 25 2007 at 17:24
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First Magma Album I heard was UDU WUDU. I didn't liked it at all. Then I listened to Mekanïk Destruktïw Kommandöh and I thought "that's a lovely opera; strong and... errr... ¿drums?", and realized it was that same band, Magma. I guess you must like opera a bit to enjoy the vocals, and listen to it as if it where some sort of... well, you get the idea. ------------- ¡Beware of the Bee! |
Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: May 25 2007 at 17:47
I have a 2cd anthology which seems to be taken from 'Udu Wudu', 'Attahk' and 'Live'. Have to say, I REALLY enjoyed that and I didn't expect to- they were a band I shied away from expecting it to be a bit too weird and esoteric. However, I was pleasantly surprised and will definitely look into buying more Magma.
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 25 2007 at 17:53
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seconding Rocktopus here.... try Magma's debut album... all the
incredible music and with exception of Stoah (which I love btw.)
is pretty low on the 'wierd' scale. Simply fabulous music from
the heavy and complex to great sections of incredible beauty. In
my top 10 fav prog albums ever.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 25 2007 at 17:59
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Wow, micky, top ten favorite prog albums? I'll have to re-examine their music some day.. my virgin listen was UduWudu, didn't like it.
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 25 2007 at 18:01
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taste being personal of course David... but it's that good in my opinion... I love that album.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Fourside
Date Posted: May 25 2007 at 18:02
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There is a pretty good review of MDK and Kohntarkosz by a non-prog fan, found here: http://starling.rinet.ru/music/magma.htm - http://starling.rinet.ru/music/magma.htm . I don't think it will make you automatically love the band, but it may open your eyes a tad. Also, no two Magma albums are alike. Well, maybe a few, but generally, from album to album had vast differences. They started off playing Coltrane-inspired fusion, then to Orff/Wagnerian opera, then to a harder edged fusion, for lack of a better term. If its the vocals that are putting you off, and judging from your description I'm guessing you've only heard MDK or something, then I suggest merely trying a range of albums. In my opinion, everything from their debut to around Attahk is nothing but excellent. If you are going to take another stab at them, I'd suggest, if nothing else, their live album Hhai. Here they leave their chorus at home and play a few old tracks, with stunning quality, and a few new ones, the title track being the most noteworthy -- it may be just the thing you need to get hooked. Another great "album" in Simples, a collection of Magma singles, I highly recommend. It is kind of like Magma-lite, containing the excellent intro to Riah Sahiltaahk, a five minute composite version of MDK (minus the chorus), and a few other songs, all upbeat, danceable (to some extent), and, above all, catchy. Personally, I think Magma are really a band to write home about. And, really, I don't see what is so inaccessible about them. I guess the whole pretentious mythology and language-thing are a bit of a turn-off, but I am here for the music, not for the mythology. The vocals are a bit tough to handle, obviously, but I don't know, they've never bothered me. |
Posted By: Bilek
Date Posted: May 25 2007 at 18:09
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It's indeed intersting how ideas differ... contrary to what the other Magma fans (at least those who appreciate their music) say, I delved into Magma straight through MDK (along with Attahk, both came on the same mp3 CD), and hell, I loved it! Again, contrary to the general liking here, I got Üdü Wüdü after listening to almost their entire back catalogue (including K.A., apparently composed before ÜW, but released decades later...) and it didn't make much sense... Shorter songs are not Magma's specialty, albeit may be a good way to introduce newcomers... Heck, as a prog fan over 5 (+) years, I still look for long pieces everywhere... (maybe a side effect of '70's Tangerine Dream fandom, eh )
P.S. I also love Can, one of my top 10 bands, and find Faust's work all-right (which means they are actually brilliant, though I don't always feel like listening to their noise  )------------- Listen to Turkish psych/prog; you won't regret: Baris Manco,Erkin Koray,Cem Karaca,Mogollar,3 Hürel,Selda,Edip Akbayram,Fikret Kizilok,Ersen (and Dadaslar) (but stick with the '70's, and 'early 80's!) |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: May 25 2007 at 18:50
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I got into Magma immediately primarily due to the vocals. For one thing, I can find the vocals fun. Before I got any albums I'd listened to some songs to sample that I really liked: La Dawotsin (an 'easy' Tubular Bells like piece), Lirik Necronominicus (my daughter loves this one -- great fun), and Ork Alarm. Also, I am more likely to be interested by music immediately that has a general weirdness than that which is more, well, normal. I was a little underwhelmed with MDK (still liked it, like it much more now) on first listen. I think that had to do with being a huge Carmina Burana fan (one of my long-time favourite albums), and I found it rather derivative. Udu Wudu solidified my high regard for this band. I grew to really love the band, but then I liked the band immediately. I think the debut album is my favourite Magma album, but I like all of the ones I've heard. Although Magma started Zeuhl and is really THE Zeuhl band, as has been noted, Eskaton's 4 Visions and Dun Eros would be easier places to start. I got into those later, and love both albums. But for one that doesn't like operatic vocals Eskaton will not appeal -- Dun's Eros is instrumental but I don't find it particularly Zeuhl (I would have put it under RIO/ Avant Prog I think). If you don't like it, don't worry about it. Trying hard to like music is not something I do. I just let it wash over me, then really listen with headphones, if it irritates me, then I move on. Of course, I do try to sample various albums too to see if anything will click. Sometimes I just need the right track. But usually I don't make any effort to like anything... It just happens naturally, or not. If I had problems enjoying the vocals, I might just focus on the instrumental bits, and try to treat the vocals as an amusing accessory (though they are far more than that). But if you don't like it, don't worry about it. I don't think it's a matter of getting it (understanding it) as it is that it either clicks or not, for whatever personal reason. Analyzing music would one sure way to kill possible enjoyment of music for me. I prefer just to listen to music; not think about it. If I hear something I like, I can usually find a lot more to like. I tried to get into Spock's Beard, The Flower Kings and Marillion before as I wanted to expand my horizons (and knowing that some vocal members regarded them very highly here), but it didn't click, so I gave up. Don't mind it really, just rather listen to music that is easier for me to enjoy. Magma is one of those bands that was easy for me to like, but we're all different. ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: May 25 2007 at 19:15
Not really disagreeing with you or anything. But not getting into Spock's Beard, The Flower Kings and Marillion is quite different to not getting into Magma. Magma's music is much more unique, unusual and demanding than those bands. That trio of bands all make more conventional music that sounds and reminds me of a lot of other stuff. Even if Magma clicked immediately for you, I think they are something one can work a little extra with, get used to and then start loving. I did, and many others it seems. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: May 25 2007 at 20:01
 I know, that point was not lost on me.  . But before I get called out for being too cheeky, I really tried to find what others found great about these bands, but I was left empty. The vocals were a problem for me with much of their stuff too. To each his or her own. I can't easily take most AOR or pop.Unconventional music tends to appeal to me more than conventional music. Pop, for instance, leaves me flat. While my appreciation for Magma has deepened with repeated listenings (as with you) it started with appreciation. The others may not make music that is as challenging, complex, or innovative as Magma, but I found it more of a challenge to find something I enjoy. Derivativeness is a turn off on the whole, but I can think of music that borrowed from many sources that I noticed quickly that I really like. But it has to be excellent to my ears in its own right. Must be up to the standards of that which it is borrowing from, and it should expand on it into new exciting territory. If it strongly reminded me of music I liked very much, it might have appealed more. But whatever influences they took that I did enjoy they turned into something that I didn't enjoy. It's not demanding in a conventional sense, but for me that expected more (or something different from music), it was a challenge to try to like. What is hard for some to appreciate is easy for others... Much depends on our musical conditioning. I quickly lose interest in bands that lack, well, depth... texture, nuance, variation blah blah. I wonder how many of those fans are also Magma fans? ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: oracus
Date Posted: May 25 2007 at 21:09
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I think magma is a 'love it or you hate it' kind of band. Ig you like operatic vocals and you like prog you will definately going to love Magma. I really like operatic vocals and i really like prog.. So, it was destiny :D
BUTi think you will understand Magma later. I believe you understand some bands by time. Take me with Genesis for example. I start to like them recently  http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_images/post_button_underline.gif
Also it helps when you see a band live. Check out this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlJKKtgreqw - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlJKKtgreqw Check the passion! ------------- 
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Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: May 25 2007 at 21:18
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Damn... by answering this, I became a "Magma fan". I don't think about myself as a fan of anything... ------------- ¡Beware of the Bee! |
Posted By: Sckxyss
Date Posted: May 25 2007 at 23:10
Logan, you have good taste! 
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Posted By: Topographic
Date Posted: May 26 2007 at 00:26
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Magma's a band I probably would have never run across had it not been for this site. I still have yet to purchase any of their albums, but I've put them at the top of my list as far as future purchases. I've been wanting to get their debut particularly, but it's a bit cost-prohibitive, though I did find Disc 1 really cheap on iTunes. From the few samples I've heard here, I must say, I really like them, and the Zeuhl genre in general. Of course, I happen to be rather fond of unusual chanting, and have a very high dissonance tolerance (as a result of being a modern classical composer) , and thus, can almost always develop a fairly good appreciation of really "out there" stuff rather quickly. I can see how Magma might be hard to get into, though.-Topographic ------------- Have you rearranged your liver to the solid mental grace today? |
Posted By: progbaby
Date Posted: May 26 2007 at 00:27
Dun Eros = incredible album!!!! I do have that one. Talk about intense bass |
Posted By: Negru Voda
Date Posted: May 26 2007 at 04:20
I first found Magma with the help of this site (bet you dind't see that coming  ) and listened to the free MP3's here. At first I didn't find the stuff a bit weird, but after listening to the 1001 Centigrades track I decided to play it safe and buy the said album which has an easy to listen to jazz track. I have to say that I enjoyed the whole album from start to finish and especially the first song which was an entirely different experience from what I was used to (mainly symphonic prog).
So I decided I needed some more Magma... but which album to buy? I noticed that MDK is the bands most acclaimed work, but unfortunately the streaming track on PA didn't do much for me. In fact I found it quite annoying. And yet I did the unthinkable and purchased MDK. I have to say that I don't regret it one bit. All the songs flow so nicely into one another (especially the first 3)and it feels like such a cohesive piece of work. However because of this I can never listen to the tracks separately because they don't make any sense. This album needs to be listened to from the first note to the last in order to apreciate (like) it. Oh, and I find myself chanting along with the band when no one's around to hear me 
I can also understand what Logan is saying. I too enjoy difficult bands more, but can't seem to get into the "easier" stuff like neo-prog, or other modern prog bands (part due to the vocals which all sound like typical top 40 radio singers). PS: I can't stand opera and especially female oper singers, yet Magma makes it sound soooo good. It's a darn mystery how they do it. |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: May 26 2007 at 04:40
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I'm halfway between Eugene and the rest of the people here. Who knows, maybe if you listen to Magma once more, you will like them? But it's not like you're missing anything if you don't. Personally I don't see what the big deal about this band is. Good band, but hardly an outstanding one. I love a good musical challenge, but am yet to hear anything personally challenging about Magma. Oh, there probably are some interesting and innovative things in there from the point of view of music theory, I can't commment on or argue with that, but I believe really good music should rely on more than just theory...
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Posted By: RoyalJelly
Date Posted: May 26 2007 at 06:27
| I'd recommend Kontarkosz...it has minimal vocals, and they are very nice. Even better, the live album from 1975 with the same materiel live, it just burns. I also don't enjoy the too Orff-like chanting of MDK, but the live one has very little of that. The 2nd one, 1001 Centigrade also has little vocals I believe, and great long extended jazz sections. |
Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: May 26 2007 at 12:34
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MDK was my first Magma album 30 years ago and I'm still a big fan today. Like Trout Mask Replica or The Faust Tapes, it seems to be one of those albums that few people are indifferent about - for some (a definite minority) it all makes perfect sense, but for most people it makes little or no sense at all. As a couple of ther people have suggested, you could try Live:Hhai or Kohntarkohsz, which feature longer instrumental passages. ------------- 'Like so many of you I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: May 26 2007 at 13:43
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Heh-heh... Vander tends to be remarked on for his drumming skills, but few talk about his particular vocal talents. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trEUcbABzBQ&mode=related&search= - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trEUcbABzBQ&mode=related&search= Sckxyss: ... or at least not bad taste. (j/k)I'm actually surprised at the lack of Magma detractors in this thread. I can understand that the 'repetitiveness' and vocal qualities would not appeal to many. As well as other less melodic qualities... There is more to it than you will hear on first listen. For those that don't feel they know Magma well enough to put forth an opinion and have a little time on their hands, there are seven streaming mp3s at this site http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=646 - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=646 , their http://myspace.com/magmaofficial - myspace page and lots of good videos at youtube.com. I'm just hoping that some who are not big on, or not yet that familiar with Magma will post their opinions/ impressions -- good, bad, or neutral. so what. Progheads tend to be adventurous anyway, and open to lots of different music. The journey is just as fun as the getting there. No point in trying to convince anyone that it is good, better to let the music speak for itself and let them come to their own conclusions and point people in the right direction (of course the people here have all offered great comments and insight). And I'm not saying anything against reviewing music either. Negru Voda: more than any other category here, Neo-Prog has presented the most difficulty for me to appreciate. I really have wanted to expose myself to as much music from the various categories as possible. Somehow that's important to me -- I do have eclectic prog tastes. I have found some I quite like (but I'd rather not listen to music derivative of Genesis or Genesis imitators). I guess this isn't the place for Neo-Zeuhl (Neo-Prog/ Zeuhl fusion) recommendations. I always love these kinds of threads, incidentally. ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: Bilek
Date Posted: May 29 2007 at 17:17
All-right... Based on the parts I emphasised above, I believe my latest find could be of some help... Just on time, I received from a progarchives buddy the bonus track of MDK CD, and it turns out to be (almost completely) instrumental; at least it doesn't have those "pretentious chanting" parts... (FYI: I love Magma, with or without vocals
!)I keep the link, and will PM to anyone who wants! Please be quick, don't let the link die, and keep me from the trouble of uploading the track again
! P.S. don't be distracted by the word "track" above... As I said, it's the continuous, instrumental version of the entire album, just a little shy of 35 minutes! ------------- Listen to Turkish psych/prog; you won't regret: Baris Manco,Erkin Koray,Cem Karaca,Mogollar,3 Hürel,Selda,Edip Akbayram,Fikret Kizilok,Ersen (and Dadaslar) (but stick with the '70's, and 'early 80's!) |
Posted By: Jay440
Date Posted: May 31 2007 at 16:35
That's right....if you go to the Magma Web Press Book and use an auto-translator to decipher the articles, it won't be accurate, but you can at least glean from them that they definitely did not use illicit drugs, and were into Vegetarianism/Natural Foods.
You can also find that Vander already went through a period of substance abuse from his early teen years until that day in Italy, 1968.
In between being devastated over Coltrane's death and the alcoholic stupor that he was in, he "hit bottom" as they say, and this delerium was probably the origin of the vision that he had of Earth's doom.
Also, somewhere on a tribute site made by Raphael Kozub (I'm at work, I'll find the link later), was something about him possibly having been addicted to Opiates during this period too.
He sure doesn't look like a junkie now!
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Posted By: User123abc
Date Posted: May 31 2007 at 17:44
Really? I spent quite a bit of time on that site, but I didn't see that. In any case, that seems so fitting to me, given how much Vander's situation would then mirror that of Coltrane's (what was it for him? Heroin?). Not to mention that, yeah, it takes a special breed of person to feel genuine grief over the loss of a person - Trane - whom he only really knew through his music. Like someone else said, there's not much to get. I think if you ask that, you're approaching Magma from the wrong direction - that of analysis rather than that of experience. To be sure, as Magma developed, simplicity became more and more a central goal of the music. I remember reading something along the lines of Vander wanting all his melodies to be basic and enjoyable, so that people would hum them as they went about their day (and I think all zeuhl freaks do in fact hum the music). In my opinion, it's an art form that aims first to convey direct emotion - with the novel technique just being what they saw as the best way to achieve this. In fact, I think that's why Magma got so caught up in the whole repetitive thing - the effect of that to me is to first set up a general and constant mood, and then to really emphasize the emotional changes that happen when all of a sudden the repetitive pattern is broken or subtly changed. That said, if you really wanted to "get" Magma's music, I can think of a few places to look. The most obvious is jazz. Coltrane and later Pharoah Sanders really ran with the idea of building music on constant drones. And you can hear pretty clear echoes of Sun Ra in Magma's first recordings (actually, they directly quote a few melodies by Sun Ra, though it's always possible this as coincidental). Sh*t, I think you could go further than that, and look at Magma as modern classical music. The whole repetitive rhythm and melody thing is pretty big in the music of guys like Phillip Glass or Steve Reich. I'd say they're actually exactly the same, except that Magma has a different aesthetic due to its different instrumentation. I personally would also really recommend you look into Offering, the jazzy side project of Christian Vander. It's the same basic idea, but the rhythm is a little freer and the harmonies are a little more ornate - and overall very pleasant. Check out the album A Fieh. I think it's the perfect balance between Vander's new style of Zeuhl and his old style of jazz. And like someone said, attentive listening is necessary, or else it really will annoy the hell out of you. |
Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: December 08 2007 at 08:59
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To be honest, it wasn't until I recognized the spiritual side to their music that I began to love them - and then the vocals made sense. |
Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: December 08 2007 at 09:50
I like some differant stuff but Magma were just too weird for me unfortunatly .. though I can hear they are very talented I fail to grasp the idea of whats going on ? .. I guess I`ll never be a Magma fan 
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 08 2007 at 09:51
what did you listen to out of curiousity.... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: December 08 2007 at 10:00
  
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 08 2007 at 10:06
IMO you did.... try another. It is a group worth a 2nd chance if you will.... I differ from some Magma fans... but I'd suggest starting with the debut... you get what Magma was about... and is easier to grasp.. .and is a GREAT album.. in my personal top 10 favorites. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 08 2007 at 10:19
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Yorkie.... if you take my suggestion seriously.. you will find that album is not cheap... however.. for those who don't have it .. or know... subscribe to Napster.... sitting here looking at all Magma's album.... for a minimal charge... all at your fingertips to listen to...screen on your computer to buy at your leisure. Without sinking 30 bucks into an album just on a recommend. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: December 08 2007 at 14:10
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MAGMA ISS DE HUNDIN!
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 08 2007 at 14:10
 ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: December 08 2007 at 14:11
HAMATAI! ------------- |
Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: December 08 2007 at 15:02
I agree with all of this 100%. Probably the album that was the hardest for me to understand (but I got there eventually) was King Crimson's Lizard. Maybe the same thing will happen for me one day with Captain Beefheart.
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: December 08 2007 at 21:12
I'm intrigued enough with this thread to pick up this album. Thanks micky for the rec and the advice about price/Napster...might have to look into that. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 08 2007 at 23:39
I can't even remember what Napster costs me.. just renewed automatically a couple of weeks ago.. I got it in October... for screening new groups here and for simple personal enjoyment. It is cheap. Like I said for example ... all the Magma albums are there, even the official boots are there all to listen to. It does have quite a database.. that is for sure ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: ThaCrim$onKing
Date Posted: December 09 2007 at 19:28
| Magma be fire man, I ain't "get" them at first either, but they grow on you yanno. Christian Vander walk tha beat like a policeman. |
Posted By: Poser
Date Posted: December 09 2007 at 21:10
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I feel the same way. I 'get' the concepts, I 'get' how talented they are, I even like the instrumentals enough (slowly getting used to handling most of the wailing). I've watched some videos and become a little more interested. Although I appreciate them, even like them at rare moments, I don't 'get' Magma. What is there that could 'grow on you'? "The choir is very impressive, but it also makes the album quite monotonous in the long run as they NEVER shut up." ------------- 
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 09 2007 at 21:17
never quite understood just what there is to 'get' about Magma... either they you enjoy them ...or you don't... sounds like you have the right attitude though.... can think of scores of groups and albums that on the first listens didn't light my house on fire... but sticking with it... and suddenly.... something clicks.. what it is... who ever knows just what it is that causes something to 'grow on you' Might be that for a couple of listens you are thinking of this.. or that... your girlfriend or wife is bitching in your ears as you are trying to listen... or maybe it simply just takes a couple of listens to find something in the nuances of the music that speaks to you on some level. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Bilek
Date Posted: December 10 2007 at 03:48
I strangely agree. Not in my top 10, of course, but indeed could be a good introduction to Magma...
as for grabbing "cheap" copies, the blogging thing provided a far better way than Napster et al... It's now possible to reach this album (and many more) within seconds, if you know what I mean
(P.S. My all time favorite Magma album, as well as one of the items in my Top something list, is MDK, along with its several versions... -that is, as a composition & concept, not necessarily as a particular "album"...- But I wouldn't recommend it as a starting point to newbies, despite the fact that it was the very first Magma piece I ever listened!!!) ------------- Listen to Turkish psych/prog; you won't regret: Baris Manco,Erkin Koray,Cem Karaca,Mogollar,3 Hürel,Selda,Edip Akbayram,Fikret Kizilok,Ersen (and Dadaslar) (but stick with the '70's, and 'early 80's!) |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 11 2007 at 23:48
I know man.... agreeing with me too often can lead to bouts of never being taken seriously hahhaha.. you always say that sh*t Bilik ...seemingly
thunderstruck you would agree with me as if I had opened my mouth.. and
a stream of fine white wine issued forth from it instead of
words. One of these days you'll have to tell me of what all the
stuff you disagree with me on hahahha------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Bilek
Date Posted: December 12 2007 at 03:10
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You got it all wrong this time... It was the "ideas", which I found strange that I agree, not you! In fact, I'm not even sure if I recognised it was "you" whom I agreed with I can tell a million things on which I disagree with you, of course, but it will take all of my time, and I have a huge pile of sh*t to do here at work ------------- Listen to Turkish psych/prog; you won't regret: Baris Manco,Erkin Koray,Cem Karaca,Mogollar,3 Hürel,Selda,Edip Akbayram,Fikret Kizilok,Ersen (and Dadaslar) (but stick with the '70's, and 'early 80's!) |
I barely find time (if at all) to write to forum every now and then, I can't spend my precious time trying to find reasons to fight with you Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 12 2007 at 16:15
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Bilek
Date Posted: December 12 2007 at 17:04
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micky, you seem not to read my posts entirely, or reading with ... erm ... some other part of your body let me just make it clear, I didn't mean "you" by any means when I said "sh*t"... take a close look, I wrote that message at work and the sh*t was right on my screen (outside of progarchives forum window ), as will be tomorrow!about VdGG, yeah, once again I agree, Pawn Hearts may be very very difficult to digest in the first listen. In fact, I started to warm them up by the "Least We Can Do" tracks in The Box (for some reason, completely ignoring the entire Pawn Hearts, actually half of it live, in Disc 2...), so that would be my choice, though H to He or Godbluff might as well be good choices... and I disagree: I regard Pawn Hearts an absolute masterpiece! I don't have the rhetorical skills to present my case (neither time!) here, but that is the actual album that clicked my "switch" (a vague reference to the new series of Battlestar Galactica ) I suggest you to go through my initial post once again to see my point! well, maybe I have to make it clearer, I'll do that when I have time... ------------- Listen to Turkish psych/prog; you won't regret: Baris Manco,Erkin Koray,Cem Karaca,Mogollar,3 Hürel,Selda,Edip Akbayram,Fikret Kizilok,Ersen (and Dadaslar) (but stick with the '70's, and 'early 80's!) |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 12 2007 at 17:13
hahahha... I guess I I am shouldn't post with no sleep.. forgive me ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: December 12 2007 at 17:19
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what is there to get? they're a musical group they make music you enjoy it or you don't simple as that "getting" things is a pretense made up by people who need some sort of vague reason to justify why they like something that many people may not but in reality its just all taste ------------- 
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Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: December 12 2007 at 17:26
I think saying "I don't get this band" is just another way of saying, "I don't think I enjoy them to their fullest yet." |
Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: December 12 2007 at 17:27
what ho an example of what I was talking about -------------
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Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: December 12 2007 at 17:30
| WHAT?!?! |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: December 12 2007 at 17:32
But your musical experiences and conditioning inform what you will/ do find enjoyable... From A to B to C and so on. There is language of music that needs cognitive decoding (kind of musical semiotics/ signs and signifiers that you may not be able to appreciate due, in part, to lack of experience). There is something to get, but you can "get it" (understand the music and make salient musical associations) without liking it. I know that I've encountered music that was initially hard to grasp (Schoenberg for instance) in a meaningful and enjoyable way, but "learned' to like it. Sometimes when getting into a new style/ band, or even switching back and forth between genres, it takes a little rewiring of the brain. But Magma is more likely to appeal to people who can appreciate jazz, quirky and rather weird offbeat music (and operatic stylings) as well as rock. Not for the mainstream rock/pop listeners, though I'm sure some of them could enjoy it too. ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: December 12 2007 at 17:34
sometimes I debate with myself whether this practice is really 'learning to like something' or self brainwash -------------
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Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: December 12 2007 at 17:37
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see if you still like the band after three months ;P
------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: December 12 2007 at 17:51
Haha, indeed. I used the word conditioning, and that can be likened to learning and brainwashing. There's a mental process involved in interpreting music; it can evoke revulsion or euphoria. I'm sure a lot of it has to do with what with we've already been exposed to... Gateway music. If I didn't like jazz, then I don't think I'd like Magma, but then many a jazz-lover wouldn't like Magma. One may never like it, and I don't think one should try hard to enjoy it. But if one was exposed to the right music and enjoyed it before approaching Magma, then the chances of liking Magma would be much greater. I can still find Vander's vocals very grating (and ridiculous), but I accept it rather humorously, and of course there's so much much more. I do believe that there is something to get, and certainly it takes time to be able to really in a meaningful, analytical way understand and appreciate the language of music. But indeed, people use "I don't get it" or "you just don't get it" in a pretty meaningless way. I prefer to say, "maybe you're just not ready for it yet," which comes across as snobbish.------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: December 12 2007 at 17:53
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I don't like Jazz and I love Magma just to complete that little matrix ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: December 12 2007 at 18:33
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Well, there you have it... Except that you make not like jazz as a genre (or pure jazz), but you like quite a bit of jazzy prog (as an element in the music), don't you? ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: December 13 2007 at 13:55
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that's true. I like music by musicians who like jazz
------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: December 13 2007 at 14:49
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... and play jazz, or very jazzy fusion music, and are heavily influenced by jazz (if I may be so bold). Sorry, i really don't want to put words in your mouth. Magma, at the official myspace page are defined as "Nu-Jazz / Rock / Progressive." Fusion of a kind, as tends to be Prog. Of course it's very common in so-called Prog to have strong jazz
elements in Zeuhl, RIO/ Avant, Canterbury, Jazz-Rock Fusion very
obviously and in other progressive rock/ music, as you know of course. Depends on how you define jazz, and there's lots of different jazz categories, but I'm bigger on music that blends jazz stylings and is jazz influenced that straight jazz bands. Of course improv is important o jazz whereas I prefer composed music that may have come out of improv sessions. I used to really love much jazz (some styles I dislike) because it's so good to watch live, and most of the "progressive rock" music I really like is very informed by jazz (some that is is too noodle-rific though -- too much improv jams). Anyway, what i really love is jazzy music (music with significant jazz-sounding qualities). ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |