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Styx vs Toto

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Forum Name: Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
Forum Description: Discuss bands and albums classified as Proto-Prog and Prog-Related
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=38372
Printed Date: June 08 2025 at 06:13
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Topic: Styx vs Toto

Posted By: Snakes & Arrows
Subject: Styx vs Toto
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 06:16

As a drummer I like to play along with lots of different music for practice , I find Styx to be mostly a piece of cake to get my drumming sounding close to the original drummer does his, however I find much of Toto's drumming much more technical and frankly much more progressive which is strange since Toto are not even on this site and Styx are ? considering ToTo feature some of musics big names like David Paich (keys) ,Jeff Porcaro (drums) ,Simon Phillips(drums) and who could ignore Steve Lukather on the axe shouldn't they be considered as prog related ?

You can`t go and pen songs like Hydra or Home Of The Brave not expect a prog related tag ... c'mon

Replies:

Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 07:48

Toto isn't in the Archives, nor is prog....so.... Disapprove

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Posted By: JayDee
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 09:08

The name Toto came from the phrase In Toto which means encompasing all. I think the band are pretty successful in making tunes that touches various genres, be it straightforward rock, jazz, funk, and yes even proggy (to some extent) tunes. I remember watching Toto peform here in the Philippines, and hearing I'll Be Over You live for the first time.Lukather played his heart out on that one. Not their greatest song, but probably one of the most memorable and most emotional contemporary ballad ever written ( together with America's I Need You). Songs like Melanie, Kingdom of Desire, Rossana, Lea, Maiden Voyage, Child's Anthem, i Won't Hold You Back and Georgy Porgy are my favorites from them. Great and influencial band if you ask me. Prog? I think not, but some songs came close to that.

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Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 09:30

I like Toto, but don't consider them progressive. Styx became less and less prog, but there was a time when they were. I went with Styx.

And as a sidenote, as much as I like Peart, Portnoy, Gadd, Harrison, Collins, etc., I consider Porcaro one of the best (if not the best) drummer that I've ever heard. Technically, the guy was a master who possessed impeccable timing and feel. Donald Fagan of Steely Dan once said that out of all the various drummers they used, Porcaro was the only one who consistently nailed his parts on the first take.

Out of all the musicians who have passed on, I miss Porcaro the most. R.I.P., Jeff.

E

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Posted By: Asyte2c00
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 09:44

Styx

Posted By: JayDee
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 09:51

E-Dub wrote:

I like Toto, but don't consider them progressive. Styx became less and less prog, but there was a time when they were. I went with Styx.

And as a sidenote, as much as I like Peart, Portnoy, Gadd, Harrison, Collins, etc., I consider Porcaro one of the best (if not the best) drummer that I've ever heard. Technically, the guy was a master who possessed impeccable timing and feel. Donald Fagan of Steely Dan once said that out of all the various drummers they used, Porcaro was the only one who consistently nailed his parts on the first take.

Out of all the musicians who have passed on, I miss Porcaro the most. R.I.P., Jeff.

E

Well said E.

A highly underrated dummer. I admire his single hand 16-beat pattern on the hi hat.

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Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 11:03

Toto

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 11:29

STYX was a Prog band in their foirst albums until 1976 when John Curulewski left and was replaced by Tommy Shaw.

Tommy had his proggy leannings but the composition was left mainly to Dennis De Young who had a POP spirit (Come Sail Away, Babe or Mister Robotto), so STYX ceased to be Prog, but they kept their orchestral sound and complex vocal work.

Toto was a POP band ALWAYS, not less not more, the fact that you can't play his drummer parts doesn't make it Prog, only speaks of the quality exhibited by Jeff Porcaro, complexity alone means nothing.

I don't believe we will ever be ratingin Prog Archives. Roxanna, Hollyanna and all the women names songs they released

Yes, they nailed one or two Prog tracks (I believe Child Anthem is the only one) but not enough.

This doesn't mean that Jeff Porcaro wasn't a good drummer, he was outstanding but he was playing in a non Prog band.

BTW: The X is more Prog than Y argument will never make a band be added, each band is added by their own merits and TOTO was never even remotely related with Prog.

Iván

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Posted By: Mandrakeroot
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 12:18

Styx for the firsts works.

Toto in "99" song and lasts works.

But $Limmagine%20“http://www.math.kth.se/~tomase/Tomas%20Ekholm_files/Porcaro%20Albums/Hydra.jpg”%20non%20può%20essere%20visualizzata%20poiché%20contiene%20degli%20errori.$ , $Limmagine%20“http://www.math.kth.se/~tomase/Tomas%20Ekholm_files/Porcaro%20Albums/IV.jpg”%20non%20può%20essere%20visualizzata%20poiché%20contiene%20degli%20errori.$ and $Limmagine%20“http://www.math.kth.se/~tomase/Tomas%20Ekholm_files/Porcaro%20Albums/The%20seventh%20one.jpg”%20non%20può%20essere%20visualizzata%20poiché%20contiene%20degli%20errori.$ are masterpieces!!!

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Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 12:27

Frankly, this is a closer call than the votes seem to suggest... while Styx can only really boast a small handful of tracks which even approach prog... (Castle Walls, Man In The Wilderness, Suite Madame Blue etc...) the same can be said for Toto (Hydra/ George & The Dragon) as well as some bits off Turn Back & Kingdom of Desire...)

Both bands produced some great music, but if one is considered Proto-Prog, then so should the other... and then there's Reo Speedwagon's early output to consider.... but that's another story...

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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson

Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 12:40

^ I can't imagine anyone considering either to be Proto-Prog. Wink

I'll go with ../album.asp?id=15410 - Toto Torquati (haven't actually heard the band...)

But really, between these choices, Styx is more closely related to Prog.

Off-topic: Toto's "Take my Hand" from the Dune soundtrack is one of my favourite pieces of music.

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Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me.

Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 13:15

Majestic_Mayhem wrote:

E-Dub wrote:

I like Toto, but don't consider them progressive. Styx became less and less prog, but there was a time when they were. I went with Styx. And as a sidenote, as much as I like Peart, Portnoy, Gadd, Harrison, Collins, etc., I consider Porcaro one of the best (if not the best) drummer that I've ever heard. Technically, the guy was a master who possessed impeccable timing and feel. Donald Fagan of Steely Dan once said that out of all the various drummers they used, Porcaro was the only one who consistently nailed his parts on the first take. Out of all the musicians who have passed on, I miss Porcaro the most. R.I.P., Jeff. E

Well said E.

A highly underrated dummer. I admire his single hand 16-beat pattern on the hi hat.

Thanks, MM; but, I don't think he was underrated at all. While he was alive he was one of the more sought after studio drummers from Boz Scaggs to Madonna. Maybe outside of music's inner circle he's not mentioned a lot; however, within the music industry he was highly regarded as one of the best in the business.

I agree with you regarding his 1/16 notes on the high hat...particularly with only his right hand. What's also not known by all is his 'dancing in the pedals' technique where he could duplicate a double bass pedal with only his right foot. He demonstrates it on his instructional video and it's amazing to watch.

E

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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 17:48

E-Dub wrote:

I like Toto, but don't consider them progressive. Styx became less and less prog, but there was a time when they were. I went with Styx.

And as a sidenote, as much as I like Peart, Portnoy, Gadd, Harrison, Collins, etc., I consider Porcaro one of the best (if not the best) drummer that I've ever heard. Technically, the guy was a master who possessed impeccable timing and feel. Donald Fagan of Steely Dan once said that out of all the various drummers they used, Porcaro was the only one who consistently nailed his parts on the first take.

Out of all the musicians who have passed on, I miss Porcaro the most. R.I.P., Jeff.

E

that post deserves some clappies.. good post... Fagen and Becker would spit drummers like Peart or.. hahha.. you have to be kidding me.. Portnoy LOL

out.. Porcaro was a master, more than a walking drum solo.

Clap

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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: markosherrera
Date Posted: May 27 2007 at 17:55

toto

Posted By: BroSpence
Date Posted: May 28 2007 at 03:24

Boy was their cover of "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" wretched.

Posted By: Bupie
Date Posted: May 29 2007 at 05:15

Toto is my favorite band so I just CAN'T be objective with them but, frankly, they are as much prog related as, let's say, Iron Maiden or Supertramp. And I know that many prog fans like them and listen to them. Which doesn't know imply that they should be included in this site : I really think that they don't belong here but they are not the only ones, believe me ...

Posted By: JayDee
Date Posted: May 29 2007 at 18:58

E-Dub wrote:

Majestic_Mayhem wrote:

E-Dub wrote:

I like Toto, but don't consider them progressive. Styx became less and less prog, but there was a time when they were. I went with Styx. And as a sidenote, as much as I like Peart, Portnoy, Gadd, Harrison, Collins, etc., I consider Porcaro one of the best (if not the best) drummer that I've ever heard. Technically, the guy was a master who possessed impeccable timing and feel. Donald Fagan of Steely Dan once said that out of all the various drummers they used, Porcaro was the only one who consistently nailed his parts on the first take. Out of all the musicians who have passed on, I miss Porcaro the most. R.I.P., Jeff. E

Well said E.

A highly underrated dummer. I admire his single hand 16-beat pattern on the hi hat.

Well, he's underated from where I am, at least

. Most of the musicians I know, specially drummers, dislike the guy. They say Porcaro is too simplistic and predictable. Oh well.

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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: June 07 2007 at 17:38

Well I prefer Toto to Styx any day.

Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: June 07 2007 at 18:01

Well, he's underated from where I am, at least

. Most of the musicians I know, specially drummers, dislike the guy. They say Porcaro is too simplistic and predictable. Oh well.

[/QUOTE]
I would hazard a guess that there's a bit of chauvinism involved due to Porcaro's musical associations. You can't be good if you're in the mainstream, right Wink

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"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.

Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: June 19 2007 at 22:31

The closest the Porcaro's got to prog was their association with Jon Anderson. Styx put out a couple of pomp rock albums that came close up on the verge of prog rock. Neither of them quite made it (although Pieces of Eight is still one of the best albums ever released.)

Posted By: prog4evr
Date Posted: June 21 2007 at 04:33

E-Dub wrote:

I like Toto, but don't consider them progressive. Styx became less and less prog, but there was a time when they were. I went with Styx.

And as a sidenote, as much as I like Peart, Portnoy, Gadd, Harrison, Collins, etc., I consider Porcaro one of the best (if not the best) drummer that I've ever heard. Technically, the guy was a master who possessed impeccable timing and feel. Donald Fagan of Steely Dan once said that out of all the various drummers they used, Porcaro was the only one who consistently nailed his parts on the first take.

Out of all the musicians who have passed on, I miss Porcaro the most. R.I.P., Jeff.

E

Agree on everything you have said. Indeed, Porcaro was a dynamo behind the trap set. That is why Simon Philips had some big shoes to fill, but I feel he has filled them quite well. I just wish Toto would let Philips do a solo, something like when he was playing with Jeff Beck on There & Back. Don't see any of that on Toto 25th anniversary concert DVD (too bad...)

Posted By: Spyro
Date Posted: June 22 2007 at 03:23

Toto in places is far more progressive see them live and compare them to styx live and you will agree

Posted By: Woodbridge
Date Posted: December 22 2007 at 17:22

For those of you that doubt how progressive Toto is, take a full and engaged listen to their newest album "Falling in Between." Very lush, complex, and in-depth musical compositions!

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: December 23 2007 at 07:05

Toto.

Posted By: markosherrera
Date Posted: January 02 2008 at 08:49

Perhaps Styx was more prog ,but I prefer Toto

What you prefer Hold the line or Mr Roboto?

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: January 02 2008 at 17:04

markosherrera wrote:

Perhaps Styx was more prog ,but I prefer Toto

What you prefer Hold the line or Mr Roboto?

Markos, is not faiir to comnpare the worst song of STYX (recognized by everybody) with one of Tot0o's hits.

Why don't you compare:

Hold the Line with Fooling Yoursaelf,. Moivement for a Common Man, Crystal Ball, SupÃ©rstar, Lights, Boat on the River or even Come Sail Away and it's moog soolo?

IvÃ¡n

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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: January 02 2008 at 18:30

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

markosherrera wrote:

Perhaps Styx was more prog ,but I prefer Toto

What you prefer Hold the line or Mr Roboto?

Markos, is not faiir to comnpare the worst song of STYX (recognized by everybody) with one of Tot0o's hits.

Why don't you compare:

Hold the Line with Fooling Yoursaelf,. Moivement for a Common Man, Crystal Ball, SupÃ©rstar, Lights, Boat on the River or even Come Sail Away and it's moog soolo?

IvÃ¡n

worst song...pfff... good thing I don't rely on you all for musical recommendations hahhaha

Mr. Roboto frickin rules... Clap

not be tarnished by that insipid VW commerical..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRNGbs26MNo - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRNGbs26MNo

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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: January 02 2008 at 18:32

Thanks Micky. I thought I was the only one on this site who liked that song, especially after reading similar posts from Ivan in other threads. Probably due to the song being popular during my developmental/formative years.

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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: January 02 2008 at 18:40

rushfan4 wrote:

Thanks Micky. I thought I was the only one on this site who liked that song, especially after reading similar posts from Ivan in other threads. Probably due to the song being popular during my developmental/formative years.

hahhaha... Ivan repeats things so many times it gives the appearence that lots of people think that way LOL

in all seriousness... I'm sure that is a big reason... how many people here trash music that they in fact actually liked their formative years

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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: January 02 2008 at 20:37

micky wrote:

hahhaha... Ivan repeats things so many times it gives the appearence that lots of people think that way LOL

in all seriousness... I'm sure that is a big reason... how many people here trash music that they in fact actually liked their formative years

No it's not me Marjkos and Micky, lets read some opinions:

Peter wrote:

el b? wrote:

heheh Mr Roboto is so bad its actually a lot of fun!
Secret secret, I got a secret secret...

Am I a man or man-ee-kaaaannnn....

Stynx deserve their own brand of CHEESE for that one!

(Maybe that's what that "favourite cheese" pollster meant, by "American cheese?")

salmacis wrote:

'Domo origato, Mr Roboto' anyone? One of the worst songs ever. Everybody in the band seemingly hated that whole affair bar Dennis DeYoung who has always seemingly had the Broadway mentality. He even performs in Broadway these days!
Tommy Shaw I believe said he felt like crying when a 10 year old kid said how much he like 'Mr Roboto'. That song is so awful I never bothered with 'Kilroy'.

Sean Trane wrote:

Any comments Mr Robotto? OR should I say Mr. Lobotto?

Easy Livin wrote:

The opening track "Mr Roboto" is an eighties electronic piece of fluff, with jaunty synths and a tuneless melody. Unfortunately, it sets the tone for the album, things descending even further on the likes of "High time".

Thyme Traveller wrote:

The Bad: Was there a more annoying song played in the 80's than Mr Roboto ?
Prosciutto wrote:

So you guys who slam at this album so badly (specially because of the song Mr. Roboto) should pay more attention to the remaining eight tracks of this record.

If I follow I could find many more, this doesn't mean it's bad, only that many people believe it's an horrendous track.

And my dislike is not because it's popular, I still like Come Sail Away and Fooling Yourself which are far more popular, and I found Mr Robotto cheesy since the first listen, almost as bad as Babe.

IvÃ¡n

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Posted By: mickcoxinha
Date Posted: January 04 2008 at 09:51

Toto cannot be impaired with Styx because the second has some good albums with some prog and some hard-rock songs. Check Styx, Styx II, The Serpent is Rising and Equinox.

Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: January 04 2008 at 12:57

blimey...I've got to redress the balance somehow by voting for Toto....

Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: January 14 2008 at 14:50

i dont konw wich one of em i dislike more..

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