Steely Dan Prog-jazz-blues band
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Suggest New Bands and Artists
Forum Description: Suggest, create polls, and classify new bands you would like included on Prog Archives
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=38505
Printed Date: July 23 2025 at 21:48 Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Steely Dan Prog-jazz-blues band
Posted By: Dr. Occulator
Subject: Steely Dan Prog-jazz-blues band
Date Posted: May 30 2007 at 18:44
There have probably been others who've said this but I believe it is a
huge oversight not to have Steely Dan listed the Prog Archives. Their
music has all the qualities of great prog: Incredible musicianship,
intelligent thought-provoking lyrics, creative arrangements, odd time
signatures, music which has broken boundaries and set a bench mark for
that type of music.
Come on PA folk. Give the band the credit they deserve. They are truly a PROGRESSIVE band.
They should be signed up!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lets hear some support from other lovers of the Dans great prog music.
------------- My Doc Told Me I Have Doggie Head.
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Replies:
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: May 30 2007 at 19:49
Yeah, it's been discussed, and the answer is a resounding no. Steely Dan is one my favorite groups. I honestly believe they never recorded a bad song. However, they are not prog.
------------- a.k.a. H.T.
http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com
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Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: May 30 2007 at 19:56
Yes, I agree with HT. I'm a HUGE Steely Dan fan and think they are absolutely brilliant. That being said, I don't think they're progressive at all.
E
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Posted By: Atomic_Rooster
Date Posted: May 30 2007 at 20:00
sophisto-rock is their official label, which is intelligent rock music, which doesn't necessitate that they are progressive at all. They're good, definitely, but not really progressive, except maybe for a few songs (Aja maybe)
------------- I am but a servant of the mighty Fripp, the sound of whose loins shall forever be upon the tongues of his followers.
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Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 30 2007 at 20:25
bhikkhu wrote:
Yeah, it's been discussed, and the answer is a resounding no. Steely Dan is one my favorite groups. I honestly believe they never recorded a bad song. However, they are not prog. |
They're WAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY too cool to be prog 
------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: May 30 2007 at 20:28
Steely Dan has some HUGE fans here, who'd put their talent, albums,
lyrical ability ..everything against any prog group... but no one
is pushing to have them included here.
again... repeat after me...
Great music... even great 'progressive' music... simply isn't the same as 'mediore' prog music. Not for this site.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: Progger58
Date Posted: May 30 2007 at 20:34
E-Dub wrote:
I'm a HUGE Steely Dan fan and think they are absolutely brilliant. That being said, I don't think they're progressive at all. |
Another huge fan here, but I wouldn't call them progressive either.
My top 3 favorite recordings, in this order:
- The Royal Scam
- Two Against Nature
- Aja
Some of the best-sounding recordings I have ever heard, by the way.
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Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: May 30 2007 at 20:47
Progger58 wrote:
E-Dub wrote:
I'm a HUGE Steely Dan fan and think they are absolutely brilliant. That being said, I don't think they're progressive at all. |
<FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>Another huge fan here, but I wouldn't call them progressive either.
<FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>
<FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>My top 3 favorite recordings, in this order:
<FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>
<FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>- The Royal Scam
<FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>- Two Against Nature
<FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>- Aja
<FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>
<FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>Some of the best-sounding recordings I have ever heard, by the way. |
Progger, I just love the drums on "Kid Charlemagne". And that guitar solo on "Peg" (Denny Dias or Larry Carlton) simply smokes.
E
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: May 31 2007 at 03:43
I bought "Katy Lied" and felt bitten - the production is amazingly transparent - but the music is bland, bland, bland.
Did I mention it's bland?
------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Posted By: Chicapah
Date Posted: May 31 2007 at 08:49
I'll chime in again that I adore their music. Just saw them in concert last fall and they were spectacular. However, they just aren't progressive rock. They have their own category unto themselves.
------------- "Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain
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Posted By: Arsillus
Date Posted: May 31 2007 at 09:05
Steely Dan is great- one of my favorite bands. But they should no be added to PA.
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Posted By: Dr. Occulator
Date Posted: June 03 2007 at 17:04
Oh well,
I tried. Do see your points. It would have been interesting if they had
started as a prog band with more prog influences other than jazz &
blues. I think they would have expanded on the suite like Aja type
tunes, probably were capable of a few epics.
Anyway thanks for input, I guess I'll continue to class them in a League of Their Own.
------------- My Doc Told Me I Have Doggie Head.
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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: June 04 2007 at 22:46
Hey, they are one of the best bands of all time. Don't feel bad.
And, I just scored a ticket to them tomorrow night!
------------- a.k.a. H.T.
http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com
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Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: June 05 2007 at 03:44
A quick search of this section is always worthwhile before proposing a band.
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Forum: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=1 - Suggest new bands / artists javascript:winOpener%28pop_up_topic_admin.asp?TID=36977,admin,1,1,480,265%29"> Topic: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36977&KW=steely+dan - Steely Dan, Prog-related? |
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=9625&FID=1 - jfleischh
Replies: 24 Views: 325
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36977&KW=steely+dan&PID=2474591#2474591">View Post
| Steely Dan, Prog-related? Posted: 18 April 2007 at 05:37 |
I wanted a general opinion on Steely Dan and progarchives. What are the chances of Steely Dan being submitted as a Prog-related band? I will admit that I am a HUGE fan, so I am extremely biased. But I do feel that Steely Dan shares a lot of the same qualities that are characterstic of progressive rock. I don't mean to bore anyone, but here are some reasons why I thought that SD could possibly make it onto PA. First off, they have NEVER written a love song. The topics of their songs are... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36977&KW=steely+dan&PID=2474591#2474591"> |
Forum: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=1 - Suggest new bands / artists javascript:winOpener%28pop_up_topic_admin.asp?TID=19227,admin,1,1,480,265%29"> Topic: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19227&KW=steely+dan - add steely dan |
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=6786&FID=1 - Blind Camel
Replies: 18 Views: 233
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| add steely dan Posted: 19 February 2006 at 22:22 |
just thought id say that, since i made a thread about it in the lounge http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19227&KW=steely+dan&PID=1868402#1868402"> |
Forum: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=1 - Suggest new bands / artists javascript:winOpener%28pop_up_topic_admin.asp?TID=7240,admin,1,1,480,265%29"> Topic: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7240&KW=steely+dan - Steely Dan |
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=1847&FID=1 - The Minstrel
Replies: 3 Views: 94
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7240&KW=steely+dan&PID=417828#417828">View Post
| Steely Dan Posted: 09 June 2005 at 01:42 |
Is it just me or could Steely Dan easily fit in the Fusion category of prog rock? I think they have all the credentials to be prog andwith Aja being a true masterpiece, why not add them? http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7240&KW=steely+dan&PID=417828#417828"> |
Forum: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=1 - Suggest new bands / artists javascript:winOpener%28pop_up_topic_admin.asp?TID=2919,admin,1,1,480,265%29"> Topic: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2919&KW=steely+dan - Is Steely Dan a progressive rock band? |
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=983&FID=1 - madgo2
Replies: 6 Views: 207
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2919&KW=steely+dan&PID=60900#60900">View Post
| Is Steely Dan a progressive rock band? Posted: 09 January 2005 at 03:26 |
Ok as for the jazz leanings of Steely Dan are they considered progressive rock? http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2919&KW=steely+dan&PID=60900#60900"> |
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: June 05 2007 at 05:46
I wouldn't mind seeing them in prog-related.
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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Posted By: Greta007
Date Posted: July 17 2008 at 09:19
Weeell, if the site includes Deep Purple, Led Zep and Queen, I don't think a band that's performed music like Your Gold Teeth, Aja and The Royal Scam would be entirely out of place here. They do weird timings, have odd lyrics, use unusual chords and professions, complex arrangements, enjoy a more sophisticated level of musicianship than many of the bands here, and generally run a different race to almost everyone else.
Personally, some time ago I wondered what folder to put my Steelies MP3 collection in - but the decision was between "Pop" and "Jazz-fusion" (I chose the latter, along with Mahavishnu Orchestra and Soft Machine, who are both featured here). At no stage did I consider putting them in my "Offbeat & Prog rock" section.
I never considered putting my Purple, Zep and Queen songs in "Offbeat & Prog rock" either, although those bands probably did do a few more off-the-air songs than the Steelies.
That folder is reserved for the Crims, ELP, Yes, Zappa, Beefheart, Gong, Genisis, Hillage, Focus, Hawkwind, Eno, Gabriel, Radiohead, Portishead, Talking Heads, Mars Volta, VDGG and all the other weird artists I enjoy.
While I love this site, in my view, there is a disproportionate emphasis on metal-type bands here, which I think works against the inclusion of the Steelies, who I consider more progressive than, say, Deep Purple or a number of other "proto prog" bands. This comes from a hopeless Crimson tragic and we all know how much noise they can make!
------------- Eagles may soar but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
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Posted By: Desoc
Date Posted: July 20 2008 at 11:26
I'd have to give my support to Greta here. While I know that "band A is listed, then band B should be listed"-arguments are not generally accepted in this forum, they do carry some face validity. The accept of bands outside the prog box demands an objective definition of the frames within which bands are accepted. This definition lacks, or is at least completely non-consistent between different sub-genres, hence Greta's prog metal point.
Perhaps the archives should include a new category: Non-prog bands approved by PA members, including all proto-prog and prog related, and in which the number of endorsements decide their internal rank. After all, I think this is what people are curious about: What other people like the bands I like? How many people agree with me that band X rocks?
Well, a little off-topic perhaps. But subject to discuss?
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 20 2008 at 11:29

------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: Desoc
Date Posted: July 20 2008 at 12:09
Absolutely no pun intended, Micky...
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 20 2008 at 12:16
ahhh.. no problem... I think they should be here... but that is for others to decide.. and has been discussed to death. See this exactly like Bowie.. the forum is probably split... and if added.. even those who disagreed would see the logic in it.
who here is going to argue with Dick Heath.. who knows more than 95% of the people in the forum.. and speaks from experience.. not bullsh*t read in a book and magazine.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: July 20 2008 at 15:15
Desoc wrote:
I'd have to give my support to Greta here. While I know
that "band A is listed, then band B should be listed"-arguments are not
generally accepted in this forum, they do carry some face validity. The
accept of bands outside the prog box demands an objective definition of
the frames within which bands are accepted. This definition lacks, or
is at least completely non-consistent between different sub-genres,
hence Greta's prog metal point. |
Yes, and if band A are here, then band B should be here" arguments can
be perfectly valid. Even if I don't say it, I often think that way.
The argument is stronger, of course, when band B is similar in many
ways to band A. If a band in the archives (often of questionable
proggy status) is used to justify a very different band musically
(sometimes people going so far as to say, band A is hardly prog and
it's in, this is more prog so of course it should be here) the argument
is not so strong. And perhaps band A shouldn't even be in. An if
apple x is here, then apple y should be here" is far better than "if
apple x is here, then orange y should be here" even though one can discuss it in terms of quantity of prog traits, but it's easier when the bands are stylistically similar. Greta makes an interesting point when it comes to prog attributes.
Ideally there would be clearer frames, and more consistency. The definitions need an overhaul, in my opinion, especially since the criteria can be so different between categories. I suspect that a band that has very limited "prog credentials" that influenced prog metal (perhaps by laying the groundwork for metal more than prog, or influencing metal more directly than Prog -- Prog isn't just about progressing music) would be more readily accepted than one which has limited prog credentiuals that influenced progressive electronic etc. But different categories can work by different rules when it comes to progressiveness, so that follows through to related categories.
Desoc wrote:
Perhaps the archives should include a new category: Non-prog bands
approved by PA members, including all proto-prog and prog related, and
in which the number of endorsements decide their internal rank. After
all, I think this is what people are curious about: What other people
like the bands I like? How many people agree with me that band X rocks?
|
That would be neat, and I've wanted a category where members can input bands, and if suitable for other categories, they could be moved elsewhere, but that was intened for progressive bands as a way of getting bands in faster with more input from everyone. I like the idea, but would put more constraint on site bandwidth, and some would feel that lead to further dilution of this prog site. Perhaps it could work more as a chart/ listing feature than operate like the other categories. Back to Steely Dan -- haven't listed to the music for a long time, so for what little it's worth, based on recollection, I could see it in Prog Related, but I'm more inclusive than many others. Mention Bjork, I'll say yes. Mention Laurie Anderson, I'll say yes. Mention Talking Heads and i'll still say yes. Mention Cream for inclusion; hell yes. Mention Donovan; sure. Mention Menudo and The Spice Girls, well I do draw the line there. Sorry, pretty useless post of mine.
------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me.
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Posted By: omri
Date Posted: July 21 2008 at 12:35
No, no Logan ! It wasn't useless at all. It made me laugh !
To the topic : I love most of Steely Dan output (not including Katy lied, I feel you just picked the wrong album Certified) and I do believe there are some less progy bands listed here (The doors !).
The truth is I don't think I realy know what prog is and the way I see it - we are messing around with definitions way too much. For me there are many bands / artists I appreciate and I want all off them to be listed here under any sub-genre you want to (I said many times that I don't understand the classification to sub-genres and don't find it very helpful to determine what kind of music lies under the deffinition).
I strongly believe in the inclusive approach since the world of what we call prog keeps expanding all the time.
So, for me, Steely Dan, Talking heads, Bjork are all welcome here.
I agree with Logan that the line should be drawn somewhere and I do hope that Spice girls will never be included here among with many others mediocre or less bands.
------------- omri
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 21 2008 at 12:45
Logan wrote:
Desoc wrote:
I'd have to give my support to Greta here. While I know
that "band A is listed, then band B should be listed"-arguments are not
generally accepted in this forum, they do carry some face validity. The
accept of bands outside the prog box demands an objective definition of
the frames within which bands are accepted. This definition lacks, or
is at least completely non-consistent between different sub-genres,
hence Greta's prog metal point. |
Yes, and if band A are here, then band B should be here" arguments can
be perfectly valid. Even if I don't say it, I often think that way.
The argument is stronger, of course, when band B is similar in many
ways to band A. If a band in the archives (often of questionable
proggy status) is used to justify a very different band musically
(sometimes people going so far as to say, band A is hardly prog and
it's in, this is more prog so of course it should be here) the argument
is not so strong. And perhaps band A shouldn't even be in. An if
apple x is here, then apple y should be here" is far better than "if
apple x is here, then orange y should be here" even though one can discuss it in terms of quantity of prog traits, but it's easier when the bands are stylistically similar. Greta makes an interesting point when it comes to prog attributes.
Ideally there would be clearer frames, and more consistency. The definitions need an overhaul, in my opinion, especially since the criteria can be so different between categories. I suspect that a band that has very limited "prog credentials" that influenced prog metal (perhaps by laying the groundwork for metal more than prog, or influencing metal more directly than Prog -- Prog isn't just about progressing music) would be more readily accepted than one which has limited prog credentiuals that influenced progressive electronic etc. But different categories can work by different rules when it comes to progressiveness, so that follows through to related categories.
redefining ... and cleaning PR.. making more user-friendly has been proposed many times.. and shot right out of the sky. To speak plainly... what I see.. and there has been nothing shown to show otherswise. It is tolerated by the powers that be because the owner wants it... and no one wants to do anything with it. Including the most egregious of faults... having bands wanted by genre teams.. being rejected from being being moved from PR. What has never fully been understood.. that is exactly like someone saying that X team can not add a band that the team has decided fits there sub-genre. What is the difference between not being added.. and being added in PR. None. Like I say. .wasted breath Greg... PR is and will always be an eyesore on this site.. not for having it.. but because nothing is done TO it to make it a benefit to the site.
Desoc wrote:
Perhaps the archives should include a new category: Non-prog bands
approved by PA members, including all proto-prog and prog related, and
in which the number of endorsements decide their internal rank. After
all, I think this is what people are curious about: What other people
like the bands I like? How many people agree with me that band X rocks?
|
That would be neat, and I've wanted a category where members can input bands, and if suitable for other categories, they could be moved elsewhere, but that was intened for progressive bands as a way of getting bands in faster with more input from everyone.I like the idea, but would put more constraint on site bandwidth, and some would feel that lead to further dilution of this prog site. Perhaps it could work more as a chart/ listing feature than operate like the other categories. Back to Steely Dan -- haven't listed to the music for a long time, so for what little it's worth, based on recollection, I could see it in Prog Related, but I'm more inclusive than many others. Mention Bjork, I'll say yes. Mention Laurie Anderson, I'll say yes. Mention Talking Heads and i'll still say yes. Mention Cream for inclusion; hell yes. Mention Donovan; sure. Mention Menudo and The Spice Girls, well I do draw the line there. Sorry, pretty useless post of mine. I agree completely.. and hope that idea becomes reality.. when.. or if... additions here are ever streamlined. |
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: Greta007
Date Posted: July 22 2008 at 08:04
All good comments, guys.
Trouble is that a lot of non-prog bands - from the Steelies to Purple to Zep to Sabbath to Bowie to Talking Heads etc - have done some "prog-ish" stuff here and there (usually the songs of theirs I think are their best ones!). However, none are prog bands. Why Deep Purple is here and Steely Dan is not, to me, seems explainable because the Steelies use American musical idioms, especially RnB, which is generally considered very un-prog and perhaps it's historical - they did something a bit different at the time when prog started. I'm not sure they were ever part of the prog movement or influenced prog bands much. They did Child in Time, though and showed the world that singers can still perform no matter how tight their pants are 
Obviously there's no clear line and there can't be one. So what maketh the prog band? Maybe that's a topic on its own but I can't be bothered starting one :)
To my mind you need to be doing something new or unusual with the following elements to be a progger:
- Timings / accents / tempos / time signatures - Dynamic range - Chords / chord combinations / harmony - Sonic range - coming up with cool (or charmingly ugly) new sounds or sound combinations - Lyrics that are not just about "Ah fell in/out of lurve" or "The government and big companies are b*rstards" - Influences from various genres - one of which must be classical, jazz, avant garde, free improv/noise or ambiance.
The idea of prog is to move to interesting areas that the mainstream may flirt with at times but no more. Prog artists are the creators of tomorrow's music - coming up with awesome ideas that the canniest mainstream artists borrow to extend the general musical vocabulary of society. Of course, some of the experiments fall away, never to be be extended on or maybe picked up many years later.
On a personal level, prog to me is music that tries to avoid the obvious cliches. Of course there's nothing truly new under the sun but prog tries to move way from the ideas and musical devices that have been done to death. It either sythesises what's gone before in interesting new ways or extends or combines existing ideas in unusual ways.
Originality. Imagination. Creativity. Amazing new sounds, textures, feels, moods, melodies and harmonies. That's what we listen to prog for. Well, I do, anyway :)
------------- Eagles may soar but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 22 2008 at 08:30
Greta007 wrote:
All good comments, guys.
Trouble is that a lot of non-prog bands - from the Steelies to Purple to Zep to Sabbath to Bowie to Talking Heads etc - have done some "prog-ish" stuff here and there (usually the songs of theirs I think are their best ones!). However, none are prog bands. Why Deep Purple is here and Steely Dan is not, to me, seems explainable because the Steelies use American musical idioms, especially RnB, which is generally considered very un-prog and perhaps it's historical - they did something a bit different at the time when prog started. I'm not sure they were ever part of the prog movement or influenced prog bands much. They did Child in Time, though and showed the world that singers can still perform no matter how tight their pants are 
Obviously there's no clear line and there can't be one. So what maketh the prog band? Maybe that's a topic on its own but I can't be bothered starting one :)
To my mind you need to be doing something new or unusual with the following elements to be a progger:
- Timings / accents / tempos / time signatures - Dynamic range - Chords / chord combinations / harmony - Sonic range - coming up with cool (or charmingly ugly) new sounds or sound combinations - Lyrics that are not just about "Ah fell in/out of lurve" or "The government and big companies are b*rstards" - Influences from various genres - one of which must be classical, jazz, avant garde, free improv/noise or ambiance.
The idea of prog is to move to interesting areas that the mainstream may flirt with at times but no more. Prog artists are the creators of tomorrow's music - coming up with awesome ideas that the canniest mainstream artists borrow to extend the general musical vocabulary of society. Of course, some of the experiments fall away, never to be be extended on or maybe picked up many years later.
On a personal level, prog to me is music that tries to avoid the obvious cliches. Of course there's nothing truly new under the sun but prog tries to move way from the ideas and musical devices that have been done to death. It either sythesises what's gone before in interesting new ways or extends or combines existing ideas in unusual ways.
Originality. Imagination. Creativity. Amazing new sounds, textures, feels, moods, melodies and harmonies. That's what we listen to prog for. Well, I do, anyway :)
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nice post... and I suspect the reason SD is not here.. and may never be here.. when they do really belong was touched on in your post. They are American... and had no 'general' association with prog. See ...love that reasoning. Very selective.. for some groups... you are to just evaiuate on the music alone.. for that.. as our resident Jazz expert Dick Heath said.. .Steely Dan fits the bill. Yet for other groups ... the 'name' the background is more important than the music.
Steely Dan is one of those groups that are tailor made for prog fans... as I like to say.. if they weren't from 70's America.. .they would have LONG been included here. Deep ..intelligent lyrics... demanding complex music.. performed by the best musicians that money can buy. Why they are not here? If anyone has a better explanation than simply being American.. I'd love to hear it....because it sure isn't for the music hahhaha.
Nice post
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: Dr. Occulator
Date Posted: August 16 2008 at 15:32
For the love of God and great music what do we have to do to get the Dan entered in the Prog-related category? I believe common sense and good taste must agree.
------------- My Doc Told Me I Have Doggie Head.
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 16 2008 at 15:37
Steely Dan are under evaluation......
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: August 16 2008 at 15:51
i love Steely Dan. I could see them being here, maybe under prog-related. I dont know where they could be besides that. Jazz-fusion is the only other spot i could see them, but they're more rock than jazz. Maybe Eclectic?
Someone said they're sophisticated rock, not prog rock. Isn't that a contradiction? Isn't that what prog is all about? Wasn't prog rock made for rock to be respected like classical music is? Steely Dan aren't the proggiest band, but they were prog and definitly progressive in their rock-jazz fusion. Instead of power chords and your basic major/minor chords used in your everyday hard rock band, they used jazz, blues and other "non-commercial" chords sequences and structures. If that isn't prog, idk what is...
Im for their inclusion. But where would they be put???
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm
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Posted By: Greta007
Date Posted: August 16 2008 at 21:18
Darkshade, you may have hit on one reason why SD aren't here - genre confusion. The Steelies are not wildly eclectic - pop, jazzrock, RnB, probably not enough to be classified as "Eclectic", at least the case is less compelling than it is for Jazz Rock / Fusion.
I doubt that anyone would argue with SD being included in Jazz Rock / Fusion. The band is highly respected in jazz circles and many of their albums have stunning examples of jazz fusion. In fact, I struggle to think of a better JR / fusion piece than Aja.
While their debut album isn't as jazzy as the others, the heavy rock bands included in Proto-Prog have done a lot of pretty primitive gumph that has zero relation to prog.
When you look at the fuzziness that surrounds other bands' inclusion, putting SD in the Jazz Rock/Fusion area is a no-brainer. It's hard to be precise in determining genres in regard to a band's entire body of work, which may vary over time ... and I think that any band whose career-long output creates confusion in categorisation has something going for it :)
------------- Eagles may soar but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 17 2008 at 08:27
Greta007 wrote:
Darkshade, you may have hit on one reason why SD aren't here - genre confusion.
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very astute.. especially for someone rather new here.... 
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: August 17 2008 at 08:39
I'm an absolute Steely Dan fanatic; however, they really don't belong here. If you asked Walter Becker or Donald Fagen I'm sure they'd agree.
I'm not even sure I'd lump them in with fusion. They have a smoother sound like Boz Scaggs with a bit more of an edge.
E
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Posted By: Greta007
Date Posted: August 17 2008 at 08:52
Thanks micky, but I'm not all that new. At the time of this post I've only posted 19,585 fewer posts here than you ... that's not too many, is it? :)
E-Dub, do you think that Black Sabbath belongs here more than SD? I'm not sure that Walter and Donald would mind one way or another.
Some more Steelies songs that fit pretty neatly into "prog", at least when compared with other bands who are here: Your Gold Teeth,
Doctor Wu, The Royal Scam and King of the World. As for sophisticated
jazz rock, add to the above songs Babylon Sisters, Home at Last, Josie,
Black Cow, Home At Last, The Fez ... miles from Boz.
While they are American, the site does include Todd Rundgren's Utopia and Frank Zappa who are both so proggy you'd need to be genre-blind to miss it. There's no doubt they are "iffy" but the site's scope is quite broad and includes plenty of fringe-prog artists ... and there's enough metal on the site to melt down and start a car factory! So, for me, it would be good to see more "grown up" bands that play music whose edginess challenges adult sensibilities rather than beats them into submission. But then again I admit to being an incorrigible BOF 
My views are entirely selfishly based, of course, because I'd like to read members' views on SD's albums :) I went looking for them and was amazed that they weren't to be found given the other bands I'd seen here.
------------- Eagles may soar but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 17 2008 at 09:39
E-Dub wrote:
I'm an absolute Steely Dan fanatic; however, they really don't belong here. If you asked Walter Becker or Donald Fagen I'm sure they'd agree.
I'm not even sure I'd lump them in with fusion. They have a smoother sound like Boz Scaggs with a bit more of an edge.
E
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so let's see what the man says 
Question: Why did Steely Dan move away from their original guitar oriented sound?
Becker:
The music that we were writing became more jazz oriented harmonically.
This suggested that we feature keyboards more prominently.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 17 2008 at 09:44
Greta007 wrote:
Thanks micky, but I'm not all that new. At the time of this post I've only posted 19,585 fewer posts here than you ... that's not too many, is it? :)
E-Dub, do you think that Black Sabbath belongs here more than SD? I'm not sure that Walter and Donald would mind one way or another.
Some more Steelies songs that fit pretty neatly into "prog", at least when compared with other bands who are here: Your Gold Teeth,
Doctor Wu, The Royal Scam and King of the World. As for sophisticated
jazz rock, add to the above songs Babylon Sisters, Home at Last, Josie,
Black Cow, Home At Last, The Fez ... miles from Boz.
While they are American, the site does include Todd Rundgren's Utopia and Frank Zappa who are both so proggy you'd need to be genre-blind to miss it. There's no doubt they are "iffy" but the site's scope is quite broad and includes plenty of fringe-prog artists ... and there's enough metal on the site to melt down and start a car factory! So, for me, it would be good to see more "grown up" bands that play music whose edginess challenges adult sensibilities rather than beats them into submission. But then again I admit to being an incorrigible BOF 
My views are entirely selfishly based, of course, because I'd like to read members' views on SD's albums :) I went looking for them and was amazed that they weren't to be found given the other bands I'd seen here.
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just like Bowie who was handled with a great deal of care.. SD is coming and is long overdue.. delayed for what you said ..'genre confusion'
where... is being determined.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: August 17 2008 at 16:48
First Steely Dan and next Glenn Miller!! Come on guys, I know you can do it!!!!
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 17 2008 at 16:52
Avantgardehead wrote:
First Steely Dan and next Glenn Miller!! Come on guys, I know you can do it!!!!
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God I love this forum....
happy days are here again.......
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: August 17 2008 at 19:34
Avantgardehead wrote:
First Steely Dan and next Glenn Miller!! Come on guys, I know you can do it!!!! |
I would, but I'm not in the mood.
------------- What?
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Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: August 17 2008 at 19:44
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: August 17 2008 at 19:49
Hey Micky, maybe we should have a "Rock-Jazz" category on this site. Steely Dan would easily fit that one. Then we could have Jeff Beck, Cream, Jack Bruce, Jimi Hendrix, etc....
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 17 2008 at 19:50
Jack Bruce is another I have wondered about.. .. I know Dick is a fan... wonder if he would go well there. As everyone knows.. he is a jazzer at heart.
need to talk to him about that...
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 17 2008 at 19:52
darkshade wrote:
i like how more jazz-oriented artists and bands are dominating the site. Enough of all the tech-speed-extreme-death-prog metal bands flooding the site.
[
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hahaha.. you are not the first to tell me that
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: August 17 2008 at 19:58
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: August 17 2008 at 20:01
Greta007 wrote:
E-Dub, do you think that Black Sabbath belongs here more than SD? I'm not sure that Walter and Donald would mind one way or another.
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As a matter of fact, I don't. Let's not open up that can of worms, however.
E
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 17 2008 at 20:03
you didn't of course Eric.. just having a bit of fun with your previous comment about asking Fagen or Becker.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: August 18 2008 at 02:49
haha jack bruce for addition!
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: August 19 2008 at 05:45
Debussy, Stravinsky and Gershwin were jazz-influenced, and so were the Grateful Dead and Spinal Tap... Steely Dan? Meh.
------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: August 19 2008 at 06:21
Personally speaking SD belongs here under Jazz Rock......about time and well done all those campaigning for their inclusion! These guys don't just rock they ' own' rock, no matter how " grene cofnudes" we may all aspire to be
Wish I could find these threads sooner 
------------- <font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 19 2008 at 06:23
exactly... they best belong under J-R... and we'll see if that team wants them or not.. if not.. they fit just as well in Xover. Not the BEST fit.. but a damn good one all the same.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: Phil
Date Posted: August 24 2008 at 05:17
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: August 24 2008 at 09:42
micky wrote:
Steely Dan has some HUGE fans here, who'd put their talent, albums,
lyrical ability ..everything against any prog group... but no one
is pushing to have them included here.
again... repeat after me...
Great music... even great 'progressive' music... simply isn't the same as 'mediore' prog music. Not for this site.
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hahahaha Micky, you just add them... well done BTW
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 24 2008 at 09:48
zafreth wrote:
micky wrote:
Steely Dan has some HUGE fans here, who'd put their talent, albums,
lyrical ability ..everything against any prog group... but no one
is pushing to have them included here.
again... repeat after me...
Great music... even great 'progressive' music... simply isn't the same as 'mediore' prog music. Not for this site.
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hahahaha Micky, you just add them... well done BTW
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not going to put a particular member in the hot seat... but a particularly well-respected member here is the reason they were added. My name is on the addition... but in a way... it wasn't of my doing. I never would have pushed it myself since I am known as such a huge fan.. that drops the trousers and puts my cute little ass out there to be spanked hard hahahha. I was convinced... not that they belong here.. because I have always thought so... but convinced to go ahead with the addition.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: Chicapah
Date Posted: August 24 2008 at 10:52
I, for one, am very glad they're here. I'm a long time fan and now I'll have something to do at night while the yadda, yadda, yadda BS of the political conventions is going on! As for SD, talk about musicians who thought outside of the box! No one, I mean NO ONE ever sounded like them and I'm glad that the younger generations will now be exposed to something other than "Hey 19."
------------- "Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain
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Posted By: Dr. Occulator
Date Posted: August 24 2008 at 13:37
Short & sweet. Well done PA administrators getting Steely Dan included in the Crossover Prog category. Although definitely not straightforward prog they have all the qualities which I enjoy when listening to great prog. Totally unique as one reviewer says they worked 'outside the box' with radical thinking in creating their one of a kind music that IMO makes the musical world a far better place to inhabit.
------------- My Doc Told Me I Have Doggie Head.
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Posted By: Avantgardehead
Date Posted: August 24 2008 at 14:19
YES!!!!!!!!
Now we need Glenn Miller, Jamiroquai, Jaga Jazzist, and The Brian Setzer Orchestra!
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian
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Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: August 24 2008 at 16:58
Well I was pleasantly surprised to see Steely Dan on the front page of PA when I came here. Sure, they're not prog, but It will certainly be cool to see people who enjoy prog music's opinions on their records, so I'm not just stuck with my dad's greatest hits collection to listen to.
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Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: August 24 2008 at 17:20
topofsm, I adore your signature.
So, Steely Dan is finally here, I see. I've already reviewed Aja and am heading off now to review Gaucho.
I am very glad that they are now here, but it's pretty ridiculous that they aren't in Jazz-Rock, but ho well, they are here, and that's all that really matters.
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Posted By: Desoc
Date Posted: August 24 2008 at 17:37
Avantgardehead wrote:
YES!!!!!!!!
Now we need Glenn Miller, Jamiroquai, Jaga Jazzist, and The Brian Setzer Orchestra!
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Jaga has been here for a while already, haven't they?
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Posted By: Greta007
Date Posted: August 25 2008 at 05:01
Oh goody, justice is done.
As I said before, if Black Sabbath is included then leaving out the Steelies makes no sense 
There's plenty of fringe-prog artists and SD is one of the more original and talented ones.
------------- Eagles may soar but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
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