Introducing: Blind Guardian!
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Music Lounge
Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=39732
Printed Date: August 03 2025 at 16:40
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Introducing: Blind Guardian!
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Subject: Introducing: Blind Guardian!
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 08:02
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Today I added Blind Guardian to the archives. The band has always been considered a controversial addition and because of that had been postponed for a long time ... but they've been cleared for addition and now they're here, and in order to facilitate the process of "assimilation" I created this thread as a place to discuss the addition ... complain about them, praise them, explain what's prog about them or what isn't ... anything, as long as it stays civil. To kick it off: 1. Have a look at my http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=127852 - Review of Nightfall in Middle-Earth 2. Listen to them on the http://www.myspace.com/blindguardian - Blind Guardian Myspace Page (From these songs only Mirror, Mirror is prog though IMO)  ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to: 
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Replies:
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 08:25
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sounds interesting Mike. having actually doubled my PM CD collection this week.  I might check this out. Curious as to how this addition stacks up against other admissions...and rejections for the Prog-Metal sub-genre.------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Ahmadbarqawi
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 08:29
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My favorite song is "A Past & Future Secret"... absolutely wonderful
& they've done these amazing cover versions of judas priest's "Beyond the realms of Death" & Dio's "don't talk to strangers" which are great also
as for adding them to PA... well i have no problem adding all the bands in the world as long as Muse & Radiohead are here  ------------- {Flashlights shade shrunken views Of a red demon’s foxtrot in brews Guns & flowers crown morning news Panic-stricken guilt now ensues} |
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 08:31
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I choose complain: Sounds like all these other pompous
so-called progressive metal bands. I might enjoy it if I was really
drunk, though. This is about as silly as it gets. When bands like Gong or Caravan are being silly they are aware of it. These guys are not. The coverart is probably the worst I've seen even in this genre, yet. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 08:40
^ "Sounds like all these other prog metal bands" ... which ones actually sound like Blind Guardian? I can't think of any, even the other prog power metal bands in the archives (Symphony X, Kamelot, Angra) sound completely different.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 08:47
so which album did you buy?  ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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micky wrote:Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 08:48
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^a softer version of Rhapsody. But I of course, this genre interests me very little, so I genealize more than you would. Still their sound is very unoriginal and predictable. I kind of knew what the would sound like, before I played the files.
------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 08:56
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^ I guess that by "files" you mean the myspace songs? Well, of course there's more to Blind Guardian than you can tell from these songs ... but of course if you don't like metal in general then it makes little sense for you to explore them any further. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 08:56
hahahhah... which ALBUMS did I buy hahhaha (had two) bought Mastadon- Blood Mountain and Opeth - Ghost Reveries for what it's worth.... really have enjoyed both of them. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 08:59
^ cool! I wouldn't have expected you to like Blood Mountain ... way to go!
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 09:05
seeing them live...first... probably had a lot to do with that (especially compared to Machine Head who followed them hahahhaha) their drummer is quite impressive ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Paulieg
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 09:08
| I have Nightfall In Middle Earth. More power metal than anything if you ask me. Talented, but not my cup of tea. I never thought of them as a prog metal band. Maybe they got more progressive since Nightfall? |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 09:14
well, I've gone in and done my ratings Mike... based on how 'good' the albums are, rather than how 'prog' they are...which, once they have been accepted, seams to me to be the right approach... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 09:21
What more? Any experimental tracks and stuff like that? Or just some ballads? I like metal, but I'd be very surprised if I haven't more or less figured out what Blind Guardian is about. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: Apsalar
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 09:41
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I stumbled across this addition earlier today and was quite suprised; it took a few moments for my brain to process the information.
I was listening to the band a few years ago when I was in high school, also listening to many other prog metal acts like Tool and Opeth, but never really made a connection that they had much to do with progressive metal. They were always just power/speed metal to me. The last album I listened to by them was 'imaginations from the other side', so I'm not really aware of their current activities. Not quite sure how I feel about the addition. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 10:38
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@Rocktopus: Mirror, Mirror is a good representation of Nightfall in Middle-Earth, but of course not all tracks sound the same or have the same style. If you're looking for an Avant-Prog like experimentality you of course won't find it on any Blind Guardian album ... neither will you find any plain "ballads" on Nightfall. @Black_Velvet: Imaginations is a very good Power Metal album IMO ... one of my favorites. Listen to the tracks Past & Future Secret and Mordred's Song, this is the direction BG took for Nightfall. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 10:58
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Never liked the band, even during my metal years. Never thought about them as being remotely progressive. Remember comparing them with Helloween ages ago, and Helloween were always winning for me. Are Helloween in the Archives yet, by the way ??? But again, power/speed metal is not really my cup of tea....
------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 11:01
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^ Blind Guardian don't sound anything like Helloween on their key albums ... and of course Helloween have no chance to be added to the archives.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 11:05
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^^^and this is because Helloween are less progressive than BG ??? ------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 11:07
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^ it's because Helloween never recorded anything even remotely as progressive as Nightfall in Middle-Earth.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 11:38
Now that Blind Guardian are here its time for me to admit my guilty pleasure I love Nightfall in Middle Earth 
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Posted By: DethMaiden
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 12:41
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I don't think they're terribly progressive, but I have no problem with their inclusion, they're a great band.
I do think Pestilence need to be looked at though, if Atheist and Cynic are on here.
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Posted By: 1800iareyay
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 12:44
| I'm glad there in, but I would have added Iced Earth first from the power metal stack. Still, welcome to PA HAnsi!. |
Posted By: Lex C
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 12:59
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I think Blind Guardian are much more progressive than some bands on here, the multi layer voices, as well as their live performances are something not done often (Yes I know alot of musicians layer their voices but not to this extent) They have a ton of queen influence in their music, not to mention their topics. To top it all off listen to and then there was silence and tell me they aren't progressive to some degree.
------------- You think we've developed fast that we're civilized and intelligent I'll let you in on a secret...We've developed things the rest is just knowledge passed on. |
Posted By: eugene
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 13:11
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^everything is progressive to some degree ------------- carefulwiththataxe |
Posted By: R o V e R
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 13:47
For the Love of "Blind Guardian"
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Posted By: MajesterX
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 13:59
 Cheesefest if you ask me. I can't understand how people can take bands like BG and Rhapsody seriously. You have a fake orchestra via keyboards and guys singing about the most ridiculous things like dwarves and wizards. It's just so cheesy! ------------- 
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Posted By: Mandrakeroot
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 14:05
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"Great, Great, Great, Great!!! Wooo Wo, ho, ho,oooh, ooo, oh..." BLIND GUARDIAN... One of my favorite Classic Metal bands... My favorite Prog Metal band (also if Proto Prog Metal band like Rush, Uriah Heep, Black Widow...). Ok... BLIND GUARDIAN... isn't a BLIND GUARDIAN!!! ------------- 
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Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 14:10
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They are German??? I did not know that! mmm... ok, I guess it´s not that wrong for them to be here... still, I dont consider them to be very prog. It seems there should be a Prog metal related genre in this site, so we can put bands like this, Anathema and others that are too close to the edge when it comes to their progressivness ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 14:10
What happened to all the fun in your world? ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: R o V e R
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 14:27
I Like cheesy! 
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Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 14:27
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Ah, I love Nightfall in Middle-Earth but I don't associate it with prog. Same with Hammers of Misfortune and Slough Feg and the whole group of power/heavy/folk/operatic metal ensembles out there - they grew out of Iron Maiden who wrote epic songs about good literature, had fun with adventurous touches here and there, were good musicians et al but weren't progressive past some negligible degree. To me, that's the sound of metal as it should be and nothing to do with progressive rock. but then I'm not on a genre team so who cares? ;P ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: reality
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 14:47
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If BG is prog metal than what is power metal? It seems like "prog" has swallowed another genre and called it its own.
My definition of (post Helloween) German power metal: "Big multi layered chorus, fantasy concept, modern orchastrations in a medieval style, neo classical leads, thunderous propulsive rythum section, chooses to be emotional and soaring rather than cold and technical like a prog band would" = Power Metal If BG is Prog than all Power Metal websites should change their style to Prog because evedentally it is the same thing. |
Posted By: Balthe
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 14:55
| I agree with the previous poster; if bands like Kamelot and even Nightwish (surely for the pseudo-operatic vocals only, so why not Blind Guardian for their very few prog elements?) are allowed into the archives, there's really no stopping any quality [insert subgenre here] metal band from being added eventually. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 15:23
There is still much Power Metal out there which isn't prog at all. More than 30% of the Blind Guardian discography isn't prog - so unfortately we can't discuss this on the band level, we need to compare albums. Now: Do you really, in all honesty, think that Nightfall in Middle-Earth is standard Power Metal? Is it the same as your typical Helloween, Gamma Ray etc.? ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: 1800iareyay
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 15:23
Speaking of which, IE needs to be on the archives if BG is.
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 15:26
There is nothing we can do about Nightwish - they've been in the archives for ages and we can't remove them. But that doesn't mean that any symphony metal band gets added ... Evanescence, Within Temptation or Edenbridge have been refused. Why? Because they did not make a prog album. If you think that neither did Blind Guardian ... well, we can't please - or agree with - everyone. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 15:38
------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 16:26
------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: reality
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 16:54
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I hate words like "standard" or phrases like "deserve to be included", like being in PA is some sort of accomplishment. BG is Power Metal because they fullfill the tennents of being Power Metal more than they do Prog Rock. All the things I listed before are standerd tennents of post Helloween German Power Metal. Do they sound like Dream Theater or any other Prog band here? Or do they sound (and intend to sound) like German Power Metal? The actual genre is a little derogatory: "Nerd Metal".
Oh ya, Manowar is thrown into the Epic metal catagory and sounds nothing like Power Metal. Have any of you actually listened to Keeper era Helloween? Because it sounds like you are throwing around generalitys without proof of what you are talking about. Funny enough I have seen Helloween's Chamelieon on top 500 prog rock album lists (and no BG). But alas, we may never agree because I see "Prog" as a Noun rather than an adjective. To me it has set tennents and is not everything that is adventurous or seemingly intelegent. Prog as a noun has unity, Prog as an adjective is useless and pointless and causes derision. If I came to this site as a new person I would have no idea what prog was and that would make this site a faliure. |
Posted By: Chus
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 17:12
You're right, and in a way I'm glad this band is added, surely the last albums have a flair to them, I think this addition opens the doors for more pompous bands like Rhapsody, though ------------- Jesus Gabriel |
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 17:20
The jawdroppingly pompous and silly Rhapsody are already here. I think their naivety is very charming, but they've shouldn't be here either. I do like 'em a lot when I'm drunk. Even more than AC/DC. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 17:26
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interesting discussion here.... I have a question to ask, that I asked in another thread... which went unanswered... but since this addition happened...I'll ask again. first some background.... from Mike's own website that he wastes no opportunity to promote hahhaha
note that of the three yes votes.... 2 are no longer active members... of this site.. and I would assume the PM team. The only yes vote...being you Mike... in fact. Blind Guardian was rejected even as a Prog Related potential PR addition by the other members of the team. I note that because... again... from your chart.
4 voting members of the PM team at the time of that debate voting for PR... yet you INSIST that IM's addition was an ADMIN mistake. I have two questions... my first being my original question?
that is my first question.. that is out of curiosity.. since I have come to find ...I don't hate Prog-Metal. Only one particular group...I've liked other stuff I've heard. My second question.... just what the hell is going on? I ask that as a member of the site. Your own team voted for Prog Related Mike... yet you blame it on the admins... and just who approved the addition of Blind Guardian. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Chus
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 17:30
Oh I didn't notice
 To tell you the truth I could swallow BG 1000 times more than Rhapsody. ------------- Jesus Gabriel |
Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 18:36
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Yeah, I'm kinda iffy on this inclusion. Blind Guardian are the archetypal power metal band, and "progressing to invent a genre" is -not- the same as "prog". I don't hate them or anything, I just don't see how they fit -here-. And that thing micky posted makes it even more iffy... Nothing personal, Mike, so you know. ------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 18:58
With only three members currently in the PMT the majority of two votes gets a band accepted for addition.I had initially rejected BG but decided to change my vote,I just forgot to do it on the chart. -------------  |
Posted By: KeleCableII
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 19:00
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From what I've heard they're just cheesy power metal.
Helloween has covered Hocus Pocus though, haha. |
Posted By: Komodo dragon
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 19:23
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love Blind Guardian , their music is good and solid but i dont think that thay even prog related . Maybe in some moments ....they are... but that is just couple of songs . If we going in that direction thousands of metal bands are prog too  ------------- 
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Posted By: M@X
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 19:25
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Nice additions guys !!!!!! Thanks Mike ------------- Prog On ! |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 19:39
Thanks Max,it's nice to hear from you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Great work Mike  ------------- |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 19:55
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I agree that that album (Nightfall...) is somewhat progressive and may merit their inclusion... I'd suggest you hear Sonata Arctica's UNIA, another power-metal band that turned into an almost full-blown progressive-metal outfit..
And Amorphis is more progressive than BG...  ------------- 
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Posted By: KoS
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 20:18
| BG is moving in a progressive direction, every album since Nightfall has been more complex and not just pure cheese...excuse me, power metal. I think they should be included in the archives, with Sym X, and Kamelot, but it is a very close call. |
Posted By: bartok
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 20:44
Have you seen any of the videos of live Gong on Youtube for the past 15 years? They may be aware of being "silly", but they're clearly not aware of how cheesy they are, or they'd just stop. I like classic Gong, but the band lost its magic and just didn't know when to stop.
And I'm not entirely convinced that they do realize how silly all the "space whisper" and glissando guitar stuff is.
I think the cover art is pretty cool - reminds me of video games like the Bard's Tale or Warcraft - stuff meant to be fun, not pretentious.
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 08 2007 at 20:49
that makes all the difference ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Single Coil
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 00:28
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Are these guys anything like Sonata Arctica? ------------- If it's worth playing, it's worth playing loud! |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 02:55
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Wow ... let me try to answer some recent posts very briefly here ... I'll have more time in 12 hours (after work). @Single Coil: I don't think that there are many similarities between Sonata Arctica and Blind Guardian other than their speed/power metal influences. I think that both bands have myspace pages - have a listen to their samples and compare for yourself! @The T: Sonata Arctica really surprised me with Unia - a very nice album, very symphonic and mature, and they moved away from the stereotypical ultra fast speed metal (which I happen to enjoy, but it's not prog). I think that while they might some day be included, their current discography does IMO not contain a complete album of "prog compatible" material ... @Max: Thanks - it's a pleasure to serve!  @Jody: Thanks for the support! @king_of_siam: Yes, the addition was a very close call for me also ... @komodo_dragon: There aren't a thousand bands similar to BG ... don't worry, it's not like this addition opens the flood gates for any other complex metal band. @KeleCablell: I guess mainstream music fans could say the same about prog rock: "From what I've heard it's just cheesy rock/pop". And if you inquired as to how they came to that conclusion they would probably say that they listened to Owner of a Lonely Heart and Turn it on Again. What I'm trying to say is: We need to discuss specific albums in order to get ahead. If you think that all power metal albums sound the same, then I doubt that you listened to them in detail. @Man Overboard: No offense taken ... however, I can't see how Blind Guardian are a "archetypical power metal band". It's not like they created a genre or something ... and european power metal was dominated by other bands in the late 1980s. In fact early BG can be seen as offsprings of the original Power Metal movement - but even with their third album they began to develop their own style. @Rocktopus: Why are all your posts so hateful towards ... heavy music in general? Now you've arrived at statements like "you can only enjoy metal when drunk" ... are you sure that this leads to something useful? @micky: A couple of things: 1. I don't know about Jody, but for me the votes by retired members still count when considering additions. It's not like these members were expelled or anything - they simply didn't have any time for team activities. So while - like Jody said - we currently can go for a "2 out of 3" votes strategy, we can also take the older votes as an indication. So even with Jody's outdated "no" vote we would have 3 "yes", 3 "no" and one prog-related vote. This situation was the reason why the addition got postponed back then ... 3 yes votes would have been enough, but we were waiting to see if someone changed his mind in order to get a more definitive result. 2. Not sure whether I understand the "question" that you posted as a quotation ... I'll simply pick this statement: "I think I understand why Maiden was rejected... it simply doesn't fit the vision of prog-metal if groups like Mastadon are symbolic of it.". Well, Mastodon are certainly not symbolic for the genre of prog metal. They are a bit like Blind Guardian in that respect ... although they have little in common musically, they both were added because they are "progressive" in nature. Progressiveness is not a style of music ... it's a pattern, an approach, a way of thinking ... it can be found in many styles or genres. I don't see it in the music of Iron Maiden, at least not to an extent which would make me want to add them here ... but I have made my peace with it. 3. For the record: At the time when Iron Maiden were added, the prog metal chart showed a different situation: They had been rejected almost unanimously. Later many chart members changed their vote to prog related ... I won't, but of course it doesn't matter anymore since prog related bands are handled by the admins, not the prog metal team. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: SirJethro
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 05:15
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My Friend is a huge fan of Blind Guardian. I like some songs but there also some pieces which getting really on my nerves. I never saw Blind Guardian as an Progressive Metal Band. However i know only a relative small number of Songs. Btw, iam living next to their hometown Krefeld^^ ------------- Give me all the Forests, give me all the Trees give me everything as long is it for free 
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Posted By: JasonVoorhees
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 05:27
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Well, now that Blind Guardian are on here, will that pave the way for other "prog-metal" groups that are similar? The only one that comes to my mind at the moment are Sonata Arctica and, from what I've heard of both, Sonata Arctica are much more progressive than Blind Guardian. Pretty good synth solos too, I might add.
EDIT: Gee, I should have looked more closely at what I was reading. Haha. But, I suppose my point is still valid. Maybe. ------------- If you can't kill 'em...you ain't Jason. 
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Posted By: Norbert
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 05:49
| To my ears this is not progressive music, but I us give that the only band I like from this symphonic power metal bunch is Symphony X, and I have strong reservations towards Tolkien adaptations. |
Posted By: iguana
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 06:14
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no, thank you. probably good, if you like that sort of stuff (i do at times),
but not progressive in any way imaginable. i'll have to re-eevaluate my membership. ------------- progressive rock and rural tranquility don't match. true or false? |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 06:44
Still everyone's talking about bands, not albums ... *sigh*.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 06:57
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So puting a bunch of fantasy characters on your album cover makes you prog? cool.. A band like metallica is 100% more prog for me yes i know most of you think of prog more as a type of sound and having fantasy album covers (i gues its nothing wrong with that) then realy pushing bounderis.. ------------- 
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 07:03
So ... you're saying that a band with fantasy characters on the album cover cannot be progressive? Now if that isn't prejudice then I don't know what is. BTW: I actually agree that Metallica recorded some progressive albums too and should be on this website ... well, sometimes we have to accept that those who have the power to decide these things don't agree with our own opinion. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Norbert
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 08:35
I' d add Adagio, from what I've heard it's pretty good stuff.
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Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 08:36
First: This is a place for prog, not metal. Writing that: I might like stuff when I'm drunk (like with AC/DC) is the opposite of being hateful. I don't hate it, I can even sometimes enjoy it. Blind Guardian and Rhapsody is not heavy music in general. Not at all. I have never been what you call hateful in any of the Metallica dicussions, I just didn't like the idea of having them included here. I've never written anything but positive stuff about: Opeth, Enslaved, Black Sabbath, Slayer, Sepultura, Mastodon (although I don't think they should be here) etc... And its not hateful to write that Rhapsody are pompous and charmingly naive. Its the truth. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 09:01
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^ if not "hateful" then perhaps "drenched in bitter sarcasm"? Ok, you think that the *style* of music which includes both Rhapsody and Blind Guardian is inherently non-prog ... obviously I disagree. They are effectively combining Metal and Classical ... in an musically professional and valid way. Granted, They may be cheesy as hell ... but IMO that's a matter of taste, not of musical content. Some people may find Ekseption incredibly cheesy too, and not very prog since they usually simply combine Rock and Classical ... ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 10:17
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I have a question about ratings, which I don't understand...
When I went to rate the BG albums yesterday, I was among the first to do so... on a couple of albums, they had only been rated once, say given 3/5. When I gave the album 4/5, the overall average for 2 reviews came out at 3.25/5...
 How come??? Surely if 2 people have given a 3 and a 4 respectively, then the score should come out at 3.5?? This is not the first time this has happened, and I don't understand why... please explain...  ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 10:59
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^ the ratings are weighted: special collabs reviews > normal reviews > ratings without review. At least I think this is the current procedure ...
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 11:14
so what you're saying is that some people's oppinions are more equal than other's... how very democratic and egalitarian... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: MajesterX
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 11:30
You're putting words in his mouth now. He never said that without "fantasy" characters on the artwork it isn't prog. He was saying that with the new addition it seems like you guys are judging that way. I strongly disagree that BG and Rhapsody mix metal and classical. Classical "sounding" keyboards and the shredding guitar playing runs that "sound" like some baroque theme played extremely fast has NOTHING to do with the structure and essence of classical music. They are simply using things in their music that "sounds" classical-esque. Adding labels like "movement one" and "prelude" do NOT mean the music is at all classical. Even classic bands like Yes, Genesis, KC and ELP are much more rock than they will ever be classical. -------------
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Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 11:36
Personally I'm thankful that the admins decided against democracy in favour of a system that actually works. ;) ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 12:29
Touche ... ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 13:35
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: MajesterX
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 14:21
I'd love to agree with you on that but I think it doesn't really work that way. Yeah, it's true, there are albums that try to mix classical and rock/ metal. However, as you pointed out with your percentages, even so-called "symphonic" metal or rock bands from Blind Guardian to Yes point more in the rock/ metal direction than they do in the classical direction. Thee same is true for some classical composers that venture into the world of pop and rock like Philip Glass for example. He's a classical composer, not a rock or pop musician. I really would love to see some modern classical composers and theory-educated rock musicians to make a piece that's right in the middle, without a leaning to either the rock or classical side. What albums mix the classical & rock/metal worlds that fans of both enjoy? If you look at it, blind guardian is a "power-metal" band with "orchestral" tendencies. Now power metal is fast metal that incorporates fantasy themes and whatever- I find defining things like that perfectly never works. So, I really wouldn't say BG or any symphonic metal or rock band "bridges the gap" that well. And can you honestly say that Epica are 40% classical? This means that they "almost" qualify to be classified as classical according to that percentage. I'm not trying to swat at the bees nest here, I'm just curious as to how you figure that. -------------
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Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 14:24
I know, that's what it's all about!
My "flaw in our judgment" thread had people thinking I was against Floyd and everything like them, untrue, I disagreed with the rating for the ALBUM ------------- 
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Posted By: decypher
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 14:27
| so WHEN exactly are Mercyful Fate and King Diamond being added? I mean if even a band like Blind Guardian.... etc. etc. whatever. |
Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 14:31
As much as I am not a speed metal fan, Blind guardian have they're progressive moments. Especially the midevil sounds and character making!
Metallica however isnt actually prog enough to be called prog IMHO. Sure they have some longer songs and very complicated music (but still never exceeds 4/4 time), they create charcters in they're song's to portray different things that happen to people, not to make a concept of a fictional character. EX- Master of puppets, One ect -------------
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Posted By: decypher
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 14:33
| King Diamond has Missy, Abigail, Grandma, Melissa and all those other characters. He's more than worthy for the archives!! yeah! |
Posted By: 1800iareyay
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 14:33
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Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 14:34
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LOL HAY GUYZ YA THINK WE KAN ADD AVRIL LEVIGNGNE HUR SONG GURLFRIEND HAS THE CHARACTER OF A GUY WHO NEEDZ A NEW GIRLFRIEND interpret that as you will ------------- 
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Posted By: decypher
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 14:35
They aren't necessarily "more prog" (how is that measured, lbs or inches?) but MF were a highly influential prog metal band in the early 80's, alone for historical reasons they easily have deserved a spot. Oh well... |
Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 14:39
it's measured in either degrees of pretentiousness or relation to Robert Fripp -------------
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Posted By: Eerichtho
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 17:57
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I for one am very happy with this addition. Blind Guardian seems more prog than Nightwish, Kamelot, Rhapsody and even Angra, to me at least. This only thanks to 'Nightfall...' and 'A Night At The Opera' which have definately many prog-moments. Because of these two prog albums BG is an excellent addition to the archives. Excellent choice Mike! |
Posted By: Mikerinos
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 18:28
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Twisted Sister are totally more progressive! "We're Not Gonna Take It" is like the '80s Supper's Ready, only way better!!! ------------- 
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Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 18:43
| not my cup of tea (since I intensly dislike ridiculous power-metal music and related attitude), but they have some good songs worthy of the whole genre ("Nightfall","Bright Eyes","Noldor","Banish from Sanctuary" etc) |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 19:16
I said that about one Epica album, which you obviously don't know ... it's a classical album without any rock/metal instrumentation. Still it's more like a film score (hence the name "The Score") than a classical composition, so it doesn't cross the 50% threshold (it lacks the complex form/structure of true classical pieces for orchestra). Listen to "The Valley" on their http://www.myspace.com/epica - Myspace page ... ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 19:19
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I only have A Twist in the Myth, and it has a few prog moments. It's obviously not the reason they were included, though.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 19:24
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I have a couple of their earlier albums on mp3, but I haven't heard'em in a long time. I've heard some of BG's later stuff too, and they're proggy indeed, so the addition don't really bother me! ------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! |
Posted By: Arsillus
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 19:34
| I used to have Nightfall in Middle-earth. It was pretty good. |
Posted By: MajesterX
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 20:12
Oh, I didn't realize you were talking about a specific album. I listened to the song, and you're right, it's hardly classical music, more like pompous film music. It's weird, I'm still getting a strong power metal vibe out of that track. No offense to fans, but I've never heard anyone write film music that is so cheesy! You could easily plant some keyboards, double bass drum and shredding into that song and it would probably sound like a typical Epica song, but maybe a bit less awkward. After listening to that, I realize that "symphonic power metal" has much more to do with film music in that it is meant to be almost over-the-top than it does with classical. -------------
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Posted By: Gamemako
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 20:20
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I have nothing wrong with power metal, but it doesn't belong here. Kamelot is as far as I'm willing to go with prog, and Blind Guardian doesn't hold a candle to Kamelot. Hell, Sonata Arctica's new Unia album is more progressive than Nightfall in Middle Earth (and as much as I enjoy the cheesiness that is Sonata Arctica, they're nowhere near prog, even in their longest compositions like White Pearl, Black Oceans...). The "prog" elements in BG's music are superficial and overstated. I can't decide whether or not I want to review Nightfall or not. On one hand, it deserves my rating scale: I hack off stars for not being progressive. BG just isn't progressive. I enjoyed a bit of A Night at the Opera in a Queen sort of way (comical for the most part), but Queen isn't prog either. Whoops. I'm pretty inclusive with my view of prog, but BG just doesn't deserve to be here. Period. |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 22:05
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I've only heard a few scattered tracks from Blind Guardian, one off of Nightfall in Middle Earth. Based on them I would greatly dispute their addition (though I found them decent). I guess I should hold my tongue untill I hear a full album though. But if they're as progressive as Kamelot I will have some great qualms with their addition. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: July 09 2007 at 22:08
^ I'm pretty inclusive on prog ratings too, I dont judge albums by how catchy they are, but how progressivly catchy they are
But if you think BG arent progressive, dont give all they're albums crappy rating's, make a thread or keep complaining on this one. Let them fight for they're prog title. -------------
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Posted By: SolariS
Date Posted: July 10 2007 at 00:40
add helloween and all will be forgiven! 
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Posted By: kazansky
Date Posted: July 10 2007 at 00:57
it is actualy a soundtrack of a Dutch movie called Joyride ------------- The devil we blame our atrocities on is really just each one of us. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 10 2007 at 02:36
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@MajesterX: The track represents about 3% of the whole album ... it's actually quite diverse, and surely not just symphonic metal without the metal instrumentation. @kazansky: Yes - and no. The album is based on (and inspired by) the soundtrack for the movie Joyride, which Mark Jansen (Epica guitarist/vocalist/songwriter) had made previously. @Gamemako: So you think that Kamelot are more progressive than Blind Guardian ... can you give me some examples? You say that the progressiveness of BG is superficial and overstated ... many people would say the same about Kamelot. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: 1800iareyay
Date Posted: July 10 2007 at 08:36
. I know that just because it sounds baroque doesn't mean it would fit in with true baroque music, but it does have connections.
BG's next album shuld settle the dispute over their inclusion. Reportedly it will be a concept album for Lord of the Rings using entirely classical instruments.
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 10 2007 at 09:31
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^ you're describing Hansi Kürsch's solo project which he began in the 1990s ... I'm not sure whether it will be published as a Blind Guardian album. My hope is that they add *some* metal elements and make it a worthy successor of Nightfall.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: 1800iareyay
Date Posted: July 10 2007 at 14:53
| I believe it's slated as a BG release. There is a bonus interview on Twist in the Myth where he talks about it. I too hope he adds some electricity to the mix |
Posted By: Gamemako
Date Posted: July 11 2007 at 18:29
I'm pretty busy right now, but I'll get around to writing a review of BG's "progressive" album Nightfall. It will recieve two stars from me as a listing in the Prog section. Essentially, it's a three-star power metal album, and I'm hacking off two stars for not being prog, so by adjustment, we'll call it a two-star album. I'd hack at least one star off of any given Kamelot album, and two off of most of them, but I'll give them credit for Epica and The Black Halo. While I enjoy Ghost Opera, Love You to Death doesn't justify it being called a prog album. BG, though, has no worthy prog metal release. They have, at best, two power metal albums with some prog influence which are cited as their "progressive" albums. It's a sad day when I can say Nightwish trumps another band in the Archives. Honestly, I wouldn't really care if BG had gone in the prog-related section. Sure, they have "progressive influences" but they're not prog. For Christ's sake, Steel Attack's Diabolic Symphony album is more progressive than Nightfall in Middle-Earth, and even if I enjoy Diabolic Symphony, I'd be pretty annoyed to see Steel Attack in the Archives. |