The Mars Volta appreciation thread
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=44409
Printed Date: July 20 2025 at 12:07
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: The Mars Volta appreciation thread
Posted By: The Pessimist
Subject: The Mars Volta appreciation thread
Date Posted: December 14 2007 at 17:39
|
I'm actually very glad to see TMV mentioned in quite a few areas on the archives, and being one of my favourite bands, I'd like to hear what other people think of them.
And also which do you think is the better drummer? Old or new... Positive and negative oppinions are all welcome :-) |
Replies:
Posted By: Evans
Date Posted: December 14 2007 at 17:46
|
Haven't heard the new one enough yet, but i like Theodore. Yeah, i love the Mars Volta. They're so 100% energy, i find it hard to listen to too much at a time, and i msut admit it was quite a while since i listened to them every day, but once in a while i listen to every album, still. Certainly one of the best bands around. I'll definitely catch their tour next year :) ------------- 
'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..' |
Posted By: Harry Hood
Date Posted: December 15 2007 at 00:33
Omar and Cedric are such a cute couple. I'm having trouble figuring out who the uke is, but I have a feeling it might be Omar.
Oh, and also they're a great band. Can't wait to see them at Rams Head in January.  ------------- 
|
Posted By: moreitsythanyou
Date Posted: December 15 2007 at 00:36
|
One of the bands that got me in to prog and still one of my favorites. They've yet to release a bad album and they seem to be improving with each release in a different way. Really digging the new songs. Goliath is a monster of a song. -------------  <font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR] |
Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: December 15 2007 at 00:40
apparently Cedric has a girlfriend  (a shock to many on the Coma)------------- 
|
Harry Hood wrote:Posted By: Harry Hood
Date Posted: December 15 2007 at 00:41
|
Amputecture was kind of a bad album. It had some cool ideas, it just lacked actual songs (aside from Day Of The Baphomets and Asillos Magdalena).Hopefully the next release will be a lot more focused. -------------
|
Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: December 15 2007 at 00:42
|
Well, not to knock Amputechture (I love it) but the new songs definitely have a more straightforward approach
-------------
|
Posted By: Harry Hood
Date Posted: December 15 2007 at 00:43
She's just his beard. We all know Omar's the only one for him. -------------
|
Posted By: moreitsythanyou
Date Posted: December 15 2007 at 00:45
|
Amputechture is one of the greatest albums of all time, without a doubt the bands best, and no one can say anything to change my mind.
------------- <font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR] |
Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: December 15 2007 at 00:49
 see that? that's polarization -------------
|
Posted By: Harry Hood
Date Posted: December 15 2007 at 00:59
|
Deloused remains my favorite for now. Frances had some great tracks (Cygnus, The Widow, Cassandra Gemmini, and the title track) and two absolutely boring tracks (L'Via, Miranda).
Amputecture didn't hold my attention like the previous two, but it has Day of the Baphomets, which might be the best song they ever recorded.
If they're writing songs as awesome as DOTB, and the album overall is as consistantly good as Deloused, I have high hopes that it might be their best yet -------------
|
Posted By: moreitsythanyou
Date Posted: December 15 2007 at 01:04
|
Have you seen the new videos? I certainly recommend them for anyone who wants to get a feel for TBIG. Also, reading the background story was a trip within itself.
------------- <font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Harry Hood
Date Posted: December 15 2007 at 01:13
|
I saw the one for Rapid Fire Tollbooth, where Omar had a violin and none of them were playing anything that had to do with the song.
Haven't seen the others though and I'm too lazy to look for them. -------------
|
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: December 15 2007 at 04:14
It was high time we had a TMV appreciation thread! In my very humble opinion, they ARE the face of modern prog - check my Amputechture review if you want to know how I really see the band. I love all three albums they have released so far, and I can't wait for The Bedlam in Goliath to come out in January 2008. However, my own personal favourite is De-Loused in the Comatorium... a 5-star masterpiece in my book. I know many people don't get, or even hate them, but I think no one can deny they're authentically progressive - and not afraid to say it, unlike some other bands. |
Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: December 15 2007 at 09:57
| Best modern Prog band, as far as I'm concerned. Looking forward to hear the new album. |
Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: December 15 2007 at 12:24
they definitely aren't shy about the prog part (at least now lately) I remember in an interview on the Henry Rollins show they said they had punk stuff like Fugazi and prog like Van der Graaf Generator, and I've seen it mentioned elsewhere that they're really into Can. Also, the King Crimson is obvious (mostly in Goliath  )-------------
|
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: December 15 2007 at 12:29
|
apropos of nothing much but these following tracks add up to just under 80 minutes: 1. Son et Lumiere ~ Inertiatic ESP 2. Cygnus... Vismund Cygnus 3. Eunuch Provocateur 4. Televators or Eriatarka (like seriously who can choose between these) 5. Tetragrammaton 6. Tira me a las Aranas ~ Drunkship of Lanterns 7. Cassandra Gemini part 1 or however they divided it, so like it ends just before that riff comes in 8. Take the Veil Cerpin Taxt 9. The Widow it's a nice comp ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: December 15 2007 at 13:45
I loved amputecture. The only bad song on the album is Vicarious Atonement (boring basically), but tetragrammaton, DOTB, mechamputechure and Asillos Magdalena are incredible, while Viscera Eyes and the ultimate track are superb after a few listens. |
Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: December 15 2007 at 15:09
Son, I'm prepared to offer you $500 Chilean pesos if you change your mind. ------------- ¡Beware of the Bee! |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: December 15 2007 at 15:12
|
De-Loused in the Comatorium - 4/5 Frances the Mutes - 3/5 Amputechture - ~1/5 Please reverse the trend!  ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Evans
Date Posted: December 15 2007 at 15:18
|
Am i the only one who kinda feels like the two bookending tracks on Amputechture drag on a bit? Strange, i have no problem whatsoever with the 31 minutes of Cassandra Gemini, but whenever "El ciervo vulnerado" come on i just feel like turning it off and calling it a day. Day of the Baphomets would have been such a great album closer, like Cassandra or Take the veil..
-------------
'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..' |
Posted By: moreitsythanyou
Date Posted: December 15 2007 at 15:19
Exactly. That is its only flaw. ------------- <font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR] |
Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: December 15 2007 at 15:21
Yeah, they should team up with Beyonce or Christina Aguilera and produce some good 3 minute hits. After all, everyone knows how to writte long freeform tracks and how to use abstraction as format to develope some electronic noise based compositions. Hits and singles and balads, that's the tough artistic arena that separates the unfocused like A silver Mt Zion from the real geniuses, like Ricky MArtin. You should writte them to talk them into changing to become the 3 minute songs band you feel they should be. Please make a tape with what they will answer to that. ------------- ¡Beware of the Bee! |
Posted By: Evans
Date Posted: December 15 2007 at 15:28
-------------
'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..' |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: December 15 2007 at 15:31
Well put. |
Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: December 15 2007 at 17:20
|
El Ciervo Vulnerado is in my opinion the only bad Mars Volta song ever put on a studio album
-------------
|
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: December 16 2007 at 19:06
| favourite song for me would be tetragrammaton. time to move the thread on a little bit :-P |
Posted By: Norbert
Date Posted: December 17 2007 at 10:40
| A good and interesting band, based on De-loused, I have to hear their other albums yet. |
Posted By: jmcdaniel_ee
Date Posted: December 17 2007 at 13:00
| I think Amputecture is their best and most underrated album. They didn't bore the listener with endless noise interludes (which are only cool to a point, then they become annoying). I'm probably way out on this one, but I think the album is the best album so far relased in the 2000's (maybe rivaled only by Wilco's YHF). I think it's far beyond their other albums. Even the track El ciervo vulnerado seems like an errie comedown from the rest of the album, and thus, very fitting. Especially because it ends so |
Posted By: Sckxyss
Date Posted: December 17 2007 at 22:01
I'd sooner lose Asilos Magdalena or Vermicide before El Ciervo Vulnerado.. I can't explain why, I just feel it closes the album well. Although, I don't like the album as much as De-Loused or Frances the Mute, which are just amazing. I can't wait to get the new album 
|
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: December 18 2007 at 17:03
| from what I have heard of the new album, it is very good. Hopefully the reat will be just as good. |
Posted By: Brubbrub
Date Posted: December 19 2007 at 00:11
|
I am almost certain The Bedlam in Goliath is going to be their best. All the tracks that have been released from TBiG benefit from MUCH tighter songwriting. I believe Omar might has learned that Rick Rubin was an integral part of the genius of De-loused. Perhaps not a major part, but definitely an integral part. Omar might be gaining experience from having produced numerous albums now (this includes his solo albums). It's about time.
------------- Feed the cat!!! (gotta remind yourself somewhere) |
Posted By: Sckxyss
Date Posted: December 19 2007 at 22:51
Tighter? Perhaps... As magical as de-loused? We'll see. (And hope!)
|
Posted By: moreitsythanyou
Date Posted: December 19 2007 at 23:00
|
My expectations are extremely high from these leaked songs.
------------- <font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR] |
Posted By: jmcdaniel_ee
Date Posted: January 30 2008 at 12:42
| I'm not going to review tBiG yet, but what are everyone's thoughts so far? I definitely like it, but I find it a little hard to listen to mix-wise. Almost like there's not as much separation of instruments in the mix. It's hard to pick out things. It kinda sounds noisy and cluttered, especially the drums which seem to have a lot more presence in the mix than the other instruments. The songs seem to be really promising, but I haven't digested them yet. So far the track Goliath is incredibly fun for me to listen to. |
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: January 30 2008 at 13:13
|
I wasn't happy with the songwriting. First song does the same thing for about four minutes, just quiet then loud, quiet then loud. and it's just generally less interesting to me because some of the songs are based around obvious rock riffs. I think it's another album I'll be rewarding two stars, but it still has a month to change my mind. anyway, Wax Simulacra and Orouboros are good songs. =) ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: Real Paradox
Date Posted: January 30 2008 at 13:53
|
I realy like them I think they are the only band that can revive 70's prog, due to there over cultural experimental songs, realy, its not a space band like Muse(witch I like a lot!).
And those type of bands are not found very often...Prog "Rule Breakers" that is how I see them, just like King Crimson:) ------------- What is This? It is what keeps us going... |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: January 30 2008 at 14:19
| Listening to TBiG for the fourth time since I bought it, and more and more convinced about its worth. It's not an accessible album by any means, but I am quite sure none of us are looking for immediacy from TMV. My impression is that it takes some time to really get into the album, though repeated listens reveal all of its facets and hidden charms. Based on what I have heard so far, it's a more cohesive album than both FtM and Amputechture. As to comparisons with De-loused..., I don't believe they are fair to either album. DitC was ground-breaking (I call it the blueprint for modern prog), TBiG is more mature and accomplished, but probably not possessed of the same impact. |
Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: January 30 2008 at 17:22
|
I love it obviously but still -------------
|
Posted By: Gufo-Pnd
Date Posted: January 30 2008 at 17:31
|
the best drummer is john theodore, but mars volta as far as i am concern is not that prog, and in their music i feel a sort of dishonesty, but that's just my opinion, and in fact was one of the firs prog related band that i heard, and as soon as you go deep into prog you are enlightened by other amaizing band and you know that the mars volta isn't that big ------------- 
|
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: January 30 2008 at 17:39
|
one of my favorite bands. the only thing is i cant listen to them too much in one sitting, idk why... i love the free jazz element they bring in, as well as their overall energy. i only wish the keyboards were a little more prominent like on Omar's solo albums. I still like Jon Theodore better on drums, but the new guy is FIRE! cant wait till their next album! DECEMBER '08!!! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm 
|
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: January 30 2008 at 18:03
December '08? dude thats defo on my xmas list  for free jazz, 22 minutes onward in Cassandra Gemini is my personal favourite. It IS modern psychodelia. |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: January 30 2008 at 18:07
|
^^^ the free jazz element is even more out there on Omar's solo albums (see my thread about Omar's albums)
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm
|
Posted By: zappaholic
Date Posted: January 30 2008 at 20:53
|
I was hooked on the Mars Volta from my first listen to de-loused. Out of their four studio full-lengths, I would say Amputechture is the most difficult to get into (but quite rewarding when you do). Goliath is more immediate - the songs for the most part are more concise, the only thing I see as a problem is all the tracks segue, and it's sometimes hard to tell where one song ends and the next begins (I noticed the same thing with the new Between the Buried And Me album). Which is not to say it doesn't jam immensely.
For now, the first two are my favorites, but Goliath is a damn good record.
------------- "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: January 31 2008 at 07:29
|
Cant believe I've only just found this thread, TMV are one of my favourit bands.The Bedlam in Goliath is the bands best album since De-Loused... IMO, and I'm thinking it might be their best yet, I seriously cant find anything wrong with it, so probably five stars here. Frances the Mute is their weakest album, its just so frustrating, lots of brilliant music interspersed with extremely dull electronic noise sections that go on for minutes, Miranda being the worst culprit. Having sad that, Cassandra Gemini is their best song. AMputechture is a good album but feel they took a step back from that chaotic edge they were riding on in the first two and the most recent albums, the ruselt being it just doesnt have the impact it should. Anyone know whether the Tremulant EPis any good? ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
|
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: January 31 2008 at 10:41
Tremulant has two absolutely excellent tracks on it: Cut That City and Eunuch Provocateur. Concertina is boring as hell, but the EP is still worth getting to see how they develop from the punk days to the prog days. it has great historical value. |
Posted By: Real Paradox
Date Posted: January 31 2008 at 15:18
|
Love them, They can capture the 70's prog with a more modern and characteristic sound. ------------- What is This? It is what keeps us going... |
Posted By: Sckxyss
Date Posted: January 31 2008 at 17:25
I think everything on the EP is enjoyable, but it's short and seems incomplete, so I wouldn't say it's essential, unless you can get it for a low price or for free, in which case you might as well get it.
|
Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: February 01 2008 at 13:15
|
my only problem with Tremulant is that it feels like they literally took everything they did well on it and did it better on De-loused Concertina= Eriatarka Eunuch = Drunkship (to an extent, this is probably the most unique sounding song on the album) I can't think of anything for Cut that City but still -------------
|
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: February 01 2008 at 14:55
|
Cut That City = Cygnus... Vismund Cygnus of Frances the Mute |
Posted By: Sckxyss
Date Posted: February 01 2008 at 17:56
| I never noticed it, but yeah, the above two posts are actually quite true... |
Posted By: Evans
Date Posted: February 01 2008 at 18:19
|
I'm not sure about Bedlam, and it worries me. Granted, i've only listened to it twice, but still. I wanted to love it more instantly.
-------------
'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..' |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: February 02 2008 at 03:46
More or less the same happened to me, though I know I very, very rarely 'fall in love' with an album on the very first listen. Anyway, every listen left me wanting to 'hear' more, which is always a good sign with me. When I am really not impressed by an album, the first listen is usually the last - as happened with the much-praised Scenes from a Memory by DT. From what I've seen so far, TBiG is not an immediate album, but rather a grower. |
Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: February 02 2008 at 09:34
|
After two listens I still think the new album is too straight forward and pretty uninteresting. I also think the guitars are too low in the mix. It's decent, but not as good as any of their other albums. It might grow with further listens, however. Frances the Mute is still their best in my opinion, but Amputechture has grown a lot on me. De-loused lands third, then the EP, then the new one. |
Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: February 02 2008 at 10:43
|
For me in order of favourite albums in decends from de-loused to goliath,thats not to say i think their getting worse,Its just drunkenship of laterns is so beasty! The new drummer is awesome though.Volta feels a bit different because of it though ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow"> 
|
Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: February 02 2008 at 13:10
| speaking of MARS VOLTA, there was a Russian band LIKE A VIRGIN, who were very much TMV-sounding at times...I can upload one of their songs (I believe they won't because it's already uploaded for free on a Russian Real Music site) for you to check out |
Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: February 03 2008 at 02:04
|
Love all the album they made so far, great band one of my favorite modern prog bands, that realy do something new and fresh not yust repating the old 70s stuff. ------------- 
|
Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: February 07 2008 at 11:31
| Those who are disappointed by the new album should check out Omar Rodriguez-Lopez' latest album. The line-up contains most (maybe all, I'm not sure) of TMV, and the album is a lot better than TBiG. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: February 29 2008 at 18:44
|
I recently started listening to the Mars Volta on myspace, and I've decided that in the coming weeks I will purchase one or even 2 of their albums. ------------- 
|
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: March 01 2008 at 12:23
Man, you gotta love optimism! There ain't enough of that these days... ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: March 01 2008 at 14:05
| I have to give the new album a few more listens but so far I've really enjoyed it - in some other thread I posted that it's their best effort since the debut. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: March 01 2008 at 14:16
|
Well, a few days ago I listened to De-Loused... once again, after a long time it hadn't made it to my player, and I have to admit it still does sound as the best of the band's efforts. Don't get me wrong, I think TBiG is a great album, but it is in no way as cohesive as the debut, and of course it doesn't sound so fresh and groundbreaking. I wrote as much in my review of the album, which hopefully you will have read (end of shameless self-plugging).
|
Posted By: Figglesnout
Date Posted: March 02 2008 at 00:24
|
Ehg. The Mars Volta were, once, my favorite band.
They've been wearing off, and I blame this on myself more than on them...their music is still original and all of that, but my ears are so..trained. It's sad really... Hell, they're even part of my name here: "King VOLTA"...but what can one do? I overlistened, and now they are quickly falling down the list, now residing somewhere around number 20 or so my current favorite bands. I like them fine, but no longer love them :( I guess this doesn't really belong in an appreciation thread...but eh, i used to appreciate them at least...lots. Anyway, hope you all continue to enjoy them longer than I did: and a word to the wise--don't overlisten!! (this refers to ANY band, as this has happened before with me). ------------- I'm a reasonable man, get off my case |
Posted By: -Radioswim-
Date Posted: March 02 2008 at 04:00
|
One thing I've always noticed about TMV's music is, you have to listen to it OVER and OVER and OVER again before it starts to take any form.
I remember way back when, trying to listen to Deloused, I still can't remember why or HOW I was able to keep listening, but at first it just sounded like children barely in their teens banging randomly on instruments and screaming. It's getting harder for me to get into their albums with each release, im still trying to get into all of Frances, though, i believe i have completely mastered Deloused, yes MASTERED.
TMV's music requires much patience, deterance, and dedication. It was quite an experiance when I finally realized that I really enjoyed Deloused, I was dancing to every tune. :D I believe deloused will go down as one of the greatest albums of our time. Damned them for releaseing such challenging music. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: March 02 2008 at 11:37
For me, De-loused hit right from the start. True, it was due to some parts/songs grabbing my attention. But there was something there that got me to come back to it. It didn't hurt that I liked a lot of At The Drive-In's music. I still think, however, that most "new" music (new in the sense that I haven't heard or listened to it before) that requires multiple listens to "get" turns out to be less than worth the while. I took some time with VDGG, and World Record is the album that got me hooked. But most of their other classics still don't elicit more than a good rating from me. I still listen to them every now & then, but I no longer expect to be struck by lightning & get them. I can see the reason why VDGG are highly regarded, but I don't feel the same way. As for TMV, well I feel Bedlam is a nice return to the form AND quality shown on De-loused. Frances had way too many parts that made King Crimson's Moonchild sound like a hyper-kinetic composition. Maybe they should have waited for the drugs to wear off before proceeding to the editing, eh. Amputechture still hasn't burrowed its' way into my head, but I still keep finding more reasons to re-listen to it each time I give it a spin. Come to think of it, my Nero CD burning suite could allow me to edit out (eliminate) the ambient soundscape interludes that take up too much of Frances. I stripped KC's Moonchild to 2 minutes & since then, ITCOTCK plays a whole lot more often in my CD players  ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: alanerc
Date Posted: March 02 2008 at 15:43
|
They are very creative, their sound can get you easily, because they play something that you don't hear every day. My favourite is De-Loused and I also love Frances the Mute (L'Via caught since the 1st time I heard it) the only BUT I' dput i sthat their sound doesn't change too much, they are always heavy and caotic, but still one of my favorite bands. |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: March 22 2009 at 06:13
| Here's a band that I should listen to a lot more. |
Posted By: Jozef
Date Posted: March 22 2009 at 13:19
|
I've only listened to "Amputechture" and the live album "Scabdates" but I do like what I've heard. On Amazon.com, their CDs are selling for very low prices from used sellers, I'm considering buying them all. ------------- 
|
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: March 22 2009 at 15:24
|
The Mars Volta has just been getting better to listen to each time. I still think Bedlam is their strongest effort. -------------
|
Posted By: JROCHA
Date Posted: March 22 2009 at 16:05
| Great band, one off my all time faves. Very talented band and they represent the Chicanos! |
Posted By: sinistas
Date Posted: March 23 2009 at 07:55
|
I was a big fan of De-Loused when it came out, but nothing since then has hit me with the same force. It's a shame, I had high hopes.
------------- http://www.dreadedsilence.com/ - Dreaded Silence - Boston Progressive / Melodic Metal |
Posted By: Eapo_q42
Date Posted: March 23 2009 at 19:46
|
I am just DYING to get news on the new album. It's a very painful wait for me! Waiting for a new album by a loved band is always painful, but in this case it's even worse. According to Omar, the album has been recorded and more-or-less ready to go for AGES. He was saying in interviews at this time last year that it would be out before the end of 2008. It gets worse...in an interview as recent as Feb 2009, Omar said that now the next TWO mars volta albums are recorded and ready to go! I can imagine that the only reason we're not getting our new music has something to do with record company politics, as I've heard cedric talking about how he'd love to do some TMV albums outside of the record company system. So, then, what's the problem? Is the company afraid TMV will become too exposed??? Is it simply unacceptable to release two LP's in one year in 2009? To any record execs who are delaying the release of this music: IF YOUR ARTISTS ARE PROLIFIC, LET THEM BE PROLIFIC! You will only dampen their creativity by INSISTING on longer periods between releases. Ultimately, you will DISILLUSION THEM FROM THE RECORDING INDUSTRY ALL TOGETHER AND THEY WILL QUIT WORKING FOR YOU AND ALL YOUR PRECIOUS MONEY WILL DISAPPEAR! These people were born to make art. Stand back and let it happen! |