Public Perception of Prog
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Music Lounge
Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46155
Printed Date: July 27 2025 at 03:21
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Public Perception of Prog
Posted By: npjnpj
Subject: Public Perception of Prog
Date Posted: February 12 2008 at 04:25
|
Have any of you also gained the impression over the last few years that 'Prog' in the general view has almost started to become synonymous with 'backward'?
If you've also gotten this impression, how do you think this has come about and what would be necessary to remedy it?
Personally I'm stumped.
|
Replies:
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: February 12 2008 at 06:15
|
As far as I can see it's always been synonomous with pretense, pomposity and a general sense of being 'un-cool' It's also percieved to be boring and music of a 'best forgotten' age..
To be honest, I know people who think The Eagles are prog rock. Most people under the age of 40 dont actually know what it is anyway. There is no remedy for the problem really. The first things the masses have always looked for in music, are whether you can sing along, and whether you can dance to it. You cant really do either to prog rock after one listen, so it was always going to be a minority thing. I wouldn't let you get you down.. |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: February 12 2008 at 07:51
|
The public are probably unaware of it until some ill-informed pundit mouths off in the media - when they too often demonstrate they have not heard any prog. At least recently I've seen a handful of reviews of albums and even singles, where the critic mentions the word 'prog' or 'proggie', without need for negative comments. As long as the public have the likes of Simon Cowell providing guidance as to music taste - what was Kevin Gilbert's line, "the tasteless advising the bland" - prog will be culture-shock. Cowell's Desert Island Disc choices, says it all wrt lack of musical imagination:
1. Mack the Knife Performer Bobby Darin Composer Weill/Brecht/Blitzstein CD Title BBC Radio Two Songs of the Century Track 16 Label Global Television Rec No: RADCD 119 2. This Guy's in Love with You Performer Herb Alpert Composer Burt Bacharach/Hal David CD Title Herb Alpert/Definitive Hits Track 12 Label A & M Rec No: 4908862 3. She Performer Charles Aznavour Composer Kretzner/Aznavour CD Title The Best of Charles Aznavour Track 1 Label Premier Rec No: PRMTVCD4 4. Unchained Melody Performer The Righteous Brothers Composer North.Zaret CD Title The All time Greatest Love Songs Track Cd2 trk 19 Label Sony Mood Rec No: CD86 5. Danke Schoen Performer Wayne Newton Composer Kaempfert Gabler-Schwabach CD Title Wild, Cool & Swingin':Wayne Newton Track 20 Label Capitol Rec No: 5203322 6. If You're Not the One Performer Daniel Bedingfield Composer Daniel Bedingfield CD Title If you're Not the One Track 1 Label Polydor Rec No: 0658632 7. Summer Wind Performer Frank Sinatra Composer Mayer/Mercer CD Title Frank Sinatra: Strangers in the Night Track 2 Label Reprise Rec No: 9010172 8. Mr Bojangles Performer Sammy Davis Jr Composer Jerry Jeff Walker CD Title Viva Las Vegas Track Cd1 trk 4 Label Universal Music TV Rec No: 5856452 Record: Mack the Knife Book: Hollywood Wives by Jackie Collins Luxury: A mirror ------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS. CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
Posted By: Chicapah
Date Posted: February 12 2008 at 08:24
That's why this site is here, my friend. We may be perceived as backwards or just plain "weird" but that's okay. We should have Tee shirts that read "Prog and Proud!"  ------------- "Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain |
Posted By: sean
Date Posted: February 12 2008 at 08:40
| I think the general public will always have a negative but uninformed view of prog rock as long as the likes of Rolling Stone, American Idol, and Clear Channel are sill in control of public taste. They will not allow it to be heard, and when it is heard it is degraded as pompous and empty. |
Posted By: Norbert
Date Posted: February 12 2008 at 08:42
| Most people I know have no idea what progressive rock is, but in case of "easier" bands they may be rather receptive. |
Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: February 12 2008 at 08:42
|
Dick Heath: Is that list for real or is it just some horrible, horrible form of slander? I find it unbelievable that anyone should openly declare that lot for the bee's knees. Is that Cowell guy an about 90 year old veteran boy-soldier from the first world war?
|
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: February 12 2008 at 09:35
|
Unlike metal, jazz, punk, rap, hip-hop etc, prog is not a generally recognised genre amongst the general public, so I don't think most people would consider it "backward". As for Simon Cowell, he thinks Robson and Jerome are great, so what can you say? |
Posted By: T.Rox
Date Posted: February 12 2008 at 10:06
I'll have one of them there tee-shirts ... but it will need to come in Fat mailto:B@rst@rd - B*stard size!   ------------- "Without prog, life would be a mistake." ...with apologies to Friedrich Nietzsche |
Chicapah wrote:Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: February 12 2008 at 10:33
Prog has almost become synonymous with backward over the last few years? This moronic attitude has been going on since the '70's. I remember critics calling prog pretentious when it was really the critics that were pretentious. What's the old saying? Those that can do and those that can't criticize? You gotta know what you like and like what you know and if they don't know, then screw them. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
|
Posted By: Nightfly
Date Posted: February 12 2008 at 11:06
Mention Prog to the average person on the street and they wont have a clue what you're talking about. I have my music loving friends and also a group of friends met through my wife via the kids who's musical taste is in X Factor territory. They've asked me what sort of music I like but ultimately fail to grasp what it is. The proof was when they were talking about all of us going to see a Drifters tribute and naturally I declined and one of them replied "You stick to your Status Quo Paul". 
|
Posted By: iguana
Date Posted: February 12 2008 at 11:50
saw a shirt once, worn by a roadie on the vans warped tour, which said I HATE ALL YOUR FAVOURITE BANDS. coolness redefined. gotta have that! as to the subject – with porcupine tree, tool, oceansize, the mars volta etc. going strong and being pretty open to their prog roots i see a strong tendency that the music is about to lose it's retro and backwards image for the time being. as long as people avoid using ol' yes, genesis, ELP etc. as references for now, it might help to re-establish prog rock big time. ------------- progressive rock and rural tranquility don't match. true or false? |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 12 2008 at 11:53
|
Sh!t, that list has terrified me, one decent song by Frank Sinatra, Charles Aznavour, who most of us won't like him but has voice..... but the rest ???
But even Sinatra and Aznavour have better tracks, but what can you expect of the taste of a man responsible of a karaoke contest?
1.- Bobby Darin is one of the worst singers ever, no voice quality or compositional skills, his greatest achievement was marrying Sandra Dee.
2.- Herp Albert: A good musician wasted because of his fanatism for easy listening music.
3.- Danke Schoen: Simply is embarrassing track by a mediocre crooner wnnabe without voice, charisma or anything
BTW: Has anybody noticed that nobody in the list except Daniel Bedingfield writes his stuff?
Please......Wayne Newton Iván ------------- 
|
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: February 12 2008 at 12:17
|
A lot of metalheads, or at least the ones I used to hang around with, have a sort of private awe and respect for progressive rock but never listen to it themselves. To the public, jazz is laughably insular, classical is music you listen to while you're doing something else, hard rock is for bikers, dance is for E-heads and blues is for old men. But then, who asked them? ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: February 12 2008 at 12:24
|
Oh, and as for how to improve prog's PR, the people who insert "guitar god" moments into music documentaries and always pick Jimmy Page or Brian May just need to be reminded about Robert Fripp's short solo on "The Night Watch" - ten seconds of beauty which would wake up a million minds! =P
------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: everyone
Date Posted: February 12 2008 at 13:45
| I worked in record retail for many years and the few people actually that bought any prog were some of our most loyal customers. These customers actually spent time in the store and asked us questions about the music and were more open minded. We just opened the record or cd and played the music "over the top." 99% of the customers followed trends. They thought we should be playing what they heard on the radio. We played music our customers would never hear anywhere else. You could walk into the store and hear southern gospel backed up with prog and then hear rap. |
Posted By: khammer99
Date Posted: February 12 2008 at 16:50
All this consternation of wither prog is backward or popular or whatever is really not very helpful to anyone. I know this is for discussion purposes, but does it really matter to you if the public, or your friends or whoever is going to know or even like what you listen too? Look at the list of sub-genres for prog. I was listening to prog as a teenager in the 70's and didn't even know it!  I just thought it was good old Rock N Roll.It seems to me, many people on this forum what it both ways; To be listening to something nobody has ever heard of before, to give them some sense of superiority, and then have it become popular, to validate the fact that they were listening to "cool" music and they are not "weirdos." Just put the music on, crank it up, and enjoy. ------------- Genius is always allowed some leeway, once the hammer has been pried from its hands and the blood has been cleaned up. - Terry Pratchett |
Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: February 12 2008 at 19:13
| Dude, I don't know if you've noticed, but no one really thinks about prog like that anymore. When punk came out it was like that for a little bit, but time has shown what is timeless. Most people who hear prog recognize it's quality. What's popular right now is backward. |
Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: February 12 2008 at 19:48
|
Most people dont care, but among indie hipsters and the more intelligent metal heads, and especially among fans of "stoner music" it finds respect ------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 12 2008 at 20:29
-------------
|
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: February 12 2008 at 21:15
|
I'm fairly sure there are greater numbers of prog fans out there than we realize. I think we are collecting much better than before...
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
|
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: February 12 2008 at 21:28
| Personally, I don't see your side of it. If anything, prog has become for fasionable these days, just look at all the young kids who are now getting on the bandwagon for prog music? Sure, not everyone is, but I wasn't even looking out of my way for anything 'different' when the term progressive rock was mentioned to me. I mean, it was VERY easy to come across, and I basically stumbled into it. If it were this shunned thing like people are making it out to be, why has it been so prominent lately? Look, the bottom line is that people consider it boring most of the time, but bands like Tool, Dream Theater and Porcupine Tree have made the general public take some notice of the genre in my view. So I think it has become a much more well-known genre in recent years, if anything. Granted, the older prog masters are not always credited, but it is at least some sort of good sign. Could just be where I live, though . . . |
Posted By: Firdous e Bareen
Date Posted: February 13 2008 at 01:25
|
Most people around my age (18) don't even know
what prog is, and those who do are the one's who love it. There's
actually a surpisingly large number of young people who are into prog.
I mean, today I was talking to someone I've known for years and I found
out they're into pretty much all the same bands I'm into. I've never
met anyone who thinks of prog as being backwards.
------------- 
|
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: February 13 2008 at 01:33
 "Did you say 'frog'?" or  "Yeah, I totally loved Pogs back in the day!"------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: SoundsofSeasons
Date Posted: February 13 2008 at 04:50
|
Im steadily teaching my peers exactly what 'Prog' is, and most of them have never even heard the word in their lives. I've actually gotten 5-10 of them to listen to prog bands (mostly Porcupine Tree, and Rush) regularly too. They also seem to really like Dream Theater too, and Opeth. Pink Floyd of course is easy to suggest too, since they just thought Pink Floyd were geniuses and didn't realize it was apart of an entire genre seperate from just rock. I think those people would agree that Pink Floyd doesn't seem like such ground breakers when they realize the entire prog genre is filled with such musicality and 'progressiveness'. I love when they ask, because they always do, "So, what actually makes a band Progressive, cause I don't really get it exactly... like, i get it, but not really." and then sometimes, about 50 percent of the time, immediately after my explaination comes, "So, like, Radiohead is prog then right?" Hehe... uh yah it's prog enough man, lets go with that. Just make sure you listen to Paranoid Android... thats prog. ------------- 1 Chronicles 13:7-9 Then David and all Israel played music before God with all their might, with singing, on harps, on stringed instruments, on tambourines, on cymbals, and with trumpets. |
Posted By: LinusW
Date Posted: February 13 2008 at 05:57
|
I'm desperately trying to get my friends into prog (so at least they know what it is), but all of them seem to be frightened by the use of so many 'unorthodox' instruments. Even Deep Purple turns out scary when the Hammond organ shows up in the music. When I first started listening to Deep Purple that was the case for me to. I think that it's just as simple as that what you don't know/understand, you fear. I would also say that quite many people (here in Sweden) know about the classic prog bands, they're just not familiar with the term prog, and the fact that the term incorporates so many different kinds of music doesn't help much either. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/LinusW88" rel="nofollow - Blargh |
Posted By: MusicalSalmacis
Date Posted: February 13 2008 at 09:27
| I like in sweden, and around here there is an additional musical genre that is pronounced the exact same way as Prog. It makes it a tad bit difficult to ever talk about Prog, since everyone will think you mean Progg, the other genre. |
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: February 13 2008 at 09:43
About the hammond organ being off-putting, that's worrying. :( I think I prefer popular music from before the use of guitar proliferated, and that's way back. Another thing that worries me is, now that pop and hip-hop have fully cross-pollinated, the use of interesting instrumentation feels to me as if it is at an all-time low. Compared to what we have now, t.A.T.u. were prog. Hey, crossover team! ;P (Sorry for posting such a silly post. I'm in a silly mood.) ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: February 13 2008 at 13:03
|
All the things she said, all the things she said, running through my head, running through my head...
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: darren
Date Posted: February 14 2008 at 03:28
|
In my opinion, this started out as "art rock" which had a very broad definition. Then due to that prog musicians had to know more than just a passing knowledge of music, it became thought of as part of the establishment and thus not really rock and roll. After all, rock and roll was about being anti-establishment. Rock and roll is the music of the average person... and the average person does not have the technical brilliance of a prog musician. Rock and roll was also about three minute songs that you danced to, not twenty minute epics with changing keys, tempos and time signatures. Rock and roll is supposed to be about girls, cars and dancing, not things like Siberian Khatrus. It was music that the youth used to scare their parents. Not many parents were worried about their kid dressing and acting like Jon Anderson, Robert Fripp or Keith Emerson (except the knife throwing, of course). Now if your kid started dressing and acting like one of The New York Dolls, The Rolling Stones or someone like Iggy Pop... slightly different story. Then punk came along. Like it or not (and most here will say "not"), punk put rebellion back into rock. Punk made rock accessable by taking the music away from the music academy kids and put it back into the hands of the kids who know two chords in their garage.
Thus, writers for magazines like Rolling Stone, etc, want to be seen hip and knowing about Rock. They want to be cool, so they pretty much have to distance themselves from geeky prog.
In the mean time, prog somehow got the perception of being the music of those who like science fiction, do well in school and aren't successful with the opposite sex (because women like rebels, right?).
------------- "they locked up a man who wanted to rule the world. the fools they locked up the wrong man." - Leonard Cohen |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: February 14 2008 at 03:58
that's interesting Dick, I've heard scuttlebutt that Randy Jackson (Cowell's fellow judge) is a big appreciator of prog and fusion |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: February 14 2008 at 05:29
I don't libel folks. That list is on the public record - the BBC to be precise:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/factual/desertislanddiscs_20060813.shtml - http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/factual/desertislanddiscs_20060813.shtml
It was interesting to hear Pete Waterman (who had been a major influence on the UK charts in the 80's), during the last episode of BBC 4's Pop Britannia. He talked about the rise of Simon Cowell and the influence he has had on the (UK) singles charts over the last 5 years - but Waterman didn't really mince his words when it came to Cowell's character as an 'apprentice' in Waterman's hit making factory PWL (i.e. no love lost).
The question we have to ask is the general public so gullible that they are swayed by these Pop Idol type of TV shows. But anybody can spot no-hopers, it is the way the pundits go about selection for the final rounds - too often the music selected for peformance would suggest they are aiming to find the star of the next west end musical , but definitely not anybody who is going to bring something fresh to pop or rock music.
------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS. CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |