Prog v. power metal?
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Topic: Prog v. power metal?
Posted By: FloydWright
Subject: Prog v. power metal?
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 01:40
No, I am NOT asking which one is better! 
OK...deep breath... 
Since I'm a little bit ignorant about metal, I'm asking how you tell the difference between prog and power metal. I've seen Symphony X classed as both, and Blind Guardian is difficult for me to make a call about, too. And what about DT? Strictly prog, right? So...how do you tell the difference? I'm posing this question to both a metal-oriented board and to a prog-oriented board (here), and I'm going to compare the different answers I get. |
Replies:
Posted By: Bryan
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 02:04
| Power metal takes a more straightforward approach to being as over the top and cheesy as one can possibly imagine. |
Posted By: Hierophant
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 02:19
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Give me some examples of power metal |
Posted By: Metropolis
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 02:38
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Dragonforce, Blind Guardian, Hammerfall, Nightwish (well, kinda), Rhapsody, Stratovarius, Therion etc They tend to (noy always) have more classically trained singers than your standard metal bands, have thicker intrumentation using keyboards, though these are used differently in power metal bands than in progmetal bands. Also powermetal bands tend to have fantasy based lyrics. There are some other differences but I've just got off night shift and my brain's stopped working so I'll put them up later. Right, time for bed. ------------- We Lost the Skyline............ 
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Posted By: VCMan
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 03:29
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I don't think Therion is a good example of power metal, it has lots more to offer. Rhapsody - that's true pure power. It has all the ingredients, such as annoying speed, dull melodies, overpretensiousness, endless and pointless guitar masturbation and lyrics dealing mostly with "how to decrease a population of dragons". As for Nightwish, I'd rather call it (as well as many other bands alike, maybe even Therion) "opera metal". BTW, "A Night at the Opera" by Blind Guardian is, imho, opera metal, too. I personally like this substyle much better than powewr metal. |
Posted By: goose
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 06:04
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At its worst, power metal is Helloween soundalikes. To get a real understanding of the genre it's best to start there. Helloween aren't really my thing, but they're miles ahead of most of the modern groups, who basically take the sound and water it down, and put the guitars/bass way too low in the mix so it's all triggered double bass pedal, keyboard and vocals. There are some heavier groups in the style (give Virgin Steele a listen), but these are generally less popular. There is, indeed a predominance of dragon slaying/elves and dwarfs etc. in the lyrics. Progressive metal can sound like pretty much anything. And some power metal is progressive too, but not as much as power metallers think! |
Posted By: Valarius
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 07:48
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I remember once someone told me Iced Earth were a "Progressive Power Metal" band... I hate when people try to REALLY put a band into a genre that specific. |
Posted By: goose
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 07:59
| I'm not quite sure where IE come into the whole power metal thing. A few years ago I read that that was the sort of US power metal sound, but I've never really heard anything else like it. They're more just heavy metal really. |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 09:48
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...and the difference between heavy and power metal is...? I'm probably wrong (and could care less), but to me, Rammstein epitomise good power metal - they manage to get the balance of repetition for the correct hypnotic effect just right. People just seem to love the label "progressive" and will apply it to any band that uses more than 3 chords, it seems. Wierd how the same people seem to hate "prog rock" per se. |
Posted By: Valarius
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 11:06
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I've always considered Rammstein to be "Industrial Rock"... whatever that is... Everything has it's own weird genre I guess. To me, a band is either, Prog (rock/metal), heavy metal or rock. Simple as that. |
Posted By: greenback
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 11:48
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power metal relies on extremely powerful electric guitar riffs and lead vocals: judas priest - screaming for vengeance and defenders of the faith are good examples, and they even have excellent compositions and melodic guitar solos to offer! prog metal relies more on a varied musical structure and on more elaborated melodies: dream theater, eternity X, threshold ------------- [HEADPINS - LINE OF FIRE: THE RECORD HAVING THE MOST POWERFUL GUITAR SOUND IN THE WHOLE HISTORY OF MUSIC!> |
Posted By: Metropolis
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 12:04
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Helloween are by far and away the worst powermetal band out there, they
just suck, bigtime. And powermetal is another one of these genres
which is very diverse and with fuzzy borders, and it appears that some
people have got a negative idea of what powermetal is into their brains
(just like how the general populace perceive prog) and are thus trying
to claim that bands they like aren't powermetal even when they are just
so as to avoid being tarred with the powermetal brush (ie that stuff
about opera metal is bull, those bands ARE powermetal). Yes some powermetal is cheesy in the extreme (Rhapsody, Dragonforce, Hammerfall etc) Some of it is downright rubbish (Helloween and all their soundalikes) But SOME of it is also extremely well written, innovative and impeccably performed (Iced Earth, Blind Guardian etc.). I urge ANY of you to listen to Nightfall in Middle Earth by Blind Guardian and THEN try and tell me that powermetal is just pretentious, speed demon guitarists w*nking over their instruments and having adolescent fantasies about dragons. As i said in my earlier posts there is a difference between the use of keys in powermetal and progmetal. For a start they aren't used in some powermetal at all, but where they are they tend to be used more of a base for the music, to create atmosphere and something to layer the rest of the music on top of, in short a background instrument, whereas in progmetal the keyboards play much more of a leading role, playing melodies, countermelodies and having solos etc. ------------- We Lost the Skyline............
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Posted By: Bryan
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 14:38
| It's all about Stratovarius. |
Posted By: Metropolis
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 14:40
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Are Stratovarius any good? I've never heard them maself
------------- We Lost the Skyline............
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Posted By: Bryan
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 15:03
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Uh... I guess they're good if you like power metal |
Metropolis wrote:Posted By: Metropolis
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 15:05
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Well, its quite a varied genre, I love Blind Guardian and Iron Maiden
and hate Helloween and Anthrax, I guess I'll just have to go and "buy"
some to find out.
------------- We Lost the Skyline............
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 15:09
You couldn't have picked 3 more different bands if you'd tried - all 3 are from different generations of metal! I'm not into classifications per se, and think there are far too many - but Judas Priest are exponents of the "1st wave" of British heavy metal, Iron Maiden were among the first of the NWOBHM - with the more punky and energetic style, and Anthrax were one of the first Thrash bands - their early albums are pure thrash - not a bit like Maiden or Priest! "Fistful of Metal" is a bit lame, but "Spreading the Disease" is almost a thrash classic - hardly power metal. I'm not sure what "Industrial Metal" is - I always associate the term with bands like early Voivod. Rammstein include the odd industrial touch - but there are nice hints of electronica, and a scary almost Wagnerian Germanic sound pervades what I've heard of their music. "Du Riechst So Gut" and "Engel" are standouts of the pre-"Mutter" material - and "Sonne", despite the over-play on MTV is an incredible song without that video! Very powerful stuff. Helloween's 1st album "Walls of Jericho" is another early thrash album - it's like Iron Maiden on speed, and hundreds of times superior to their watered-down later offerings. The track "Ride the Sky" is pure thrash magic - absolutely hypnotic and a perfect example of the melodic end of the genre.
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Posted By: Valarius
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 16:00
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I really like them. Most of their songs sound the same and all have the same drum beat, but I think they're a very good band. I'd definately recommend checking out "Intermission", "Infinite" and "Destiny". All great albums in my opinion. |
Posted By: Valarius
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 16:04
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Blind Guardian, Iced Earth, Stratovarius, Grave Digger, Hammerfall, Majesty, Manowar, Helloween, Demons And Wizards, Iron Saviour, Metalium. Although we all have different opinions, those are bands I know which I consider Power Metal. |
Posted By: Aaron
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 16:13
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what the hell, kai hansen is a great songwriter walls of jericho is a great album from helloween, i guess maybe it is more speed metal but... both Keeper albums are pretty decent too Personally i think Gammay Ray should be in the prog archives, if you dont know them, you should check some of their stuff out, i would download Heading for Tomorrow, Men on a Mission, Anywhere in the Galaxy, and Armageddon to start Aaron |
Posted By: Manunkind
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 17:11
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------------- "In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun |
Posted By: Valarius
Date Posted: March 28 2005 at 17:47
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Posted By: VCMan
Date Posted: March 29 2005 at 00:27
...and if you like some classics, because many people call them "neo-classic", and they really deserve this title. |
Posted By: aqualung28
Date Posted: March 29 2005 at 00:30
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Polka Metal anyone? ------------- "O' lady look up in time o' lady look out of love 'n you should have us all O' you should have us fall" "Bill's Corpse" By Captain Beefheart |
Posted By: VCMan
Date Posted: March 29 2005 at 01:11
Yes, sir. As well as rhumba metal, ballet metal, reggey metal and two-balalaikas-violent-attack metal. They all RULE, really. |
Posted By: Valarius
Date Posted: March 29 2005 at 02:28
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"Heavy Alternative Melodic Rock" = Nu Metal. Feels good to get that off my chest. |
Posted By: Verisimilitude
Date Posted: March 30 2005 at 23:27
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Sorry to bring this back up, but I had to say a few things... For anyone
wondering what Power Metal is some earlier posts by Goose and some others know what they're talking about... Whoever mentioned Iron Maiden, Anthrax and Judas Priest doesn't... Power metal is that kind of cheesy, epic, adventure-type sound... The kind of "slay the dragon" or "drink the potion" music... Oh and chunky riffs with guitar solos thrown in... I also agree on the mention of Nightwish and Opera Metal/Power Metal... They're a bit of both, but still to sidetrack a little I fail to see how this gets Nightwish classified as prog...? 
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Posted By: goose
Date Posted: March 31 2005 at 04:51
Ska/funk metal (Infectious Grooves Hillbilly metal |
)Posted By: VCMan
Date Posted: April 01 2005 at 02:00
Once I saw some kind of metal styles description, and there was a subcategory called "alternative metal", which had only one entry. Guess, who was filed there?.. No, it was IN FLAMES! I think that using elements of ska, funk or polka doesn't make a certain group "ska metal", "funk metal" etc.
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Posted By: goose
Date Posted: April 01 2005 at 06:26
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Finntroll really is polka metal though; basically all of their music uses traditional polka sounding accordion parts (it's rubbish, too, but that's by the way Truth be told, I couldn't name any metal bands that have a really profound influence from ska, but there are a few with quite a bit of funk - Mordred, for example, although quite a few of the songs on the album I've got are just straight up metal. Apparently they got progressively more funky as they went on, which I can believe having listened to one or two songs from their debut. I can't judge how hillbilly Demonspeed really are, but I really want to find out |
Posted By: VCMan
Date Posted: April 01 2005 at 06:39
I think if the base of Finntroll music is polka, then you can call it "heavy polka" or "metal polka", but not "polka metal" (IMHO). Nethertheless, I think I'll give it a listen. It must be pretty funny. By the way, as far as I remember, Finnish polka is called "humppa" or something of the kind.
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