bands with a message
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46674
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Topic: bands with a message
Posted By: laplace
Subject: bands with a message
Date Posted: February 28 2008 at 13:59
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One of the popular criticisms levelled at prog during the punk period was that it was borgeouis. That wasn't entirely fair, but punk's directness did make a lot of prog look ponderous and enigmatic. Quite honestly, a lot of progressive rock is intentionally meaningless, or else has one but keeps it tightly encrypted behind invented languages or florid vocabulary, or else layers and layers of metaphor. That's neato and all. Sentence for Magmaluv. But can you think of any bands who conveyed worthwhile ideas with their music? I'm not talking about bands who played at political rallies or charity events, but rather those who wrote songs containing implicit, unmistakeable messages. This does *partially* rule out bands who only made instrumental music - you can see that Henry Cow have something to say on "Unrest" and "Western Culture" when their desolate songtitles are paired with music that can be bleak and hard to digest, but it's only on "In Praise of Learning" (as well as when they mutate into Art Bears) where they go ahead and say it. Let's name some blunt, outspoken bands, and see if we can notice a pattern. Messages aren't limited to political opinion; these opinions can range from "Hail Satan" or "Be excellent to each other", if it's commandingly said. Tool have moments where they step outside of personal philosophical considerations long enough to make you think about them too. Yes have appealed for sanctuary in the case of certain cetaceans. Area have bleated for communism. What else? =) ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Replies:
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: February 28 2008 at 14:12
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Mother Gong comes to my mind with their outspoken feminism, which can especially be seen and heard in their "Robot Woman" trilogy. -------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: February 28 2008 at 14:13
Besides Area (whom I wanted to mention when I saw you had already done so ), other RPI bands have conveyed 'messages' of various kinds in their lyrics. The other most obvious choice as regards political content are Stormy Six, as you know very well. Jumbo's Vietato ai minori di 18 anni has very bleak, thought-provoking socially aware lyrics, tackling such topics as prostitution and drug addiction. Banco wrote some politically-charged lyrics as well, like "Canto nomade di un prigioniero politico".
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: February 28 2008 at 14:17
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One of my favorites is Midnight Oil, who fight for indigenous rights for aborigines in Australia. But they're not prog, so.... Queensryche (though I question their relevance as a prog band often), rail against corporatization, urban slumming, and centralized government, especially in the early days. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: mpomy
Date Posted: February 28 2008 at 14:25
That kind of theme is certainly present in 'Get 'em Out By Friday', but whn I think about a prog act that has a theme throughout the body of work, I hate to say it, but I think about the gospel of Neal Morse  . I may not agree with all of his message, but he's definitely got one. A few pretty good solo albums too.------------- 
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stonebeard wrote:Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: February 28 2008 at 14:34
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I'm not sure if you're meaning the same message throughout all of their work or message within specific songs. If you mean messages within specific songs than definitely Rush, despite your pure untethered hatred for them. If you're meaning a sort of same message throughout most of their songs then oddly enough I would say Yes, which doesn't make much sense because they are widely criticized for writing nonsensical lyrics. But I think that their universal message throughout their history is love your wife, love your friends, love your spirtual beings, and the time is now and the word is love. ------------- 
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Posted By: WideAngleWatcher
Date Posted: February 28 2008 at 14:37
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Much as I love David Lee Roth I always hated this quote from him;
"A lot of bands mature, which means they get square; they start delivering messages. Hey, you got a message, use Western Union."
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: February 28 2008 at 14:41
I think this criticism of Yes is usually leveled with only a few songs in mind, likely "Awaken." Or it could be that Jon Anderson's style of writing is very fluid and generally goes through many different similar topics within a song, not always being connected fluidly, especially on later works like "Open Your Eyes" and "The Ladder." They are almost always not nonsensical. |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: February 28 2008 at 14:43
"A lot of singers get a big ego and leave/are kicked out of successful bands and end up as washed up ambulance drivers." - Stonebeard  |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: February 28 2008 at 15:16
Just for clarity, it is not my criticism but what I read throughout the threads such as best song writer or vocalist or lyrics. There are plenty of comments about how Yes lyrics make no sense. Their lyrics which are meant as much as voice as another instrument versus conveying a message. The words sound good together and they rhyme but they don't necessarily mean anything.
As an aside, I always thought that a flying purple wolf hound was some made up word like Led Zeppelin's "hedgerow " until I recently read that it was a slang term for warplanes flying overhead. -------------
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Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: February 28 2008 at 15:30
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Well, what comes to mind instantly is Water's "Animals" lyrics railing against the system, establishment, Mary Whitehouse, the public "sheep." The veil is pretty thin. Great stuff though. Funny thing is, Punk ripped Floyd at the very time Water's unleashed this diatribe. The messages weren't that different, and the punkers should have realized Floyd were an ally, not the enemy. ------------- |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: February 28 2008 at 15:40
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My apologies in advance for this stupid comment, for I am not certain but I think that the theme of many Opeth songs is "let them eat cookies". -------------
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Posted By: LinusW
Date Posted: February 28 2008 at 15:42
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The answer is found below and to the left of this text.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/LinusW88" rel="nofollow - Blargh |
Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: February 28 2008 at 17:18
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Peart writes lyrics for the thinking man and that's a big part of the reason why I love Rush I think. Jon Anderson also has a pretty strong message and perhaps the world would be a better place if we took some of his advice. Kerry Livgren from Kansas is also a worthy candidate for this thread though he may now be Christian hes always managed to be an inspiration to me as a song writer. The Band Threshold have the ability to make me think as well. So many artists fit this catogary from Crimsons "Epitaph" to Floyd's "Dark Side of The Moon" thinking is firmly stamped all over prog. |
Posted By: WideAngleWatcher
Date Posted: February 28 2008 at 19:24
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: February 28 2008 at 19:42
Pardon? "hedgerow" is a made up word?  ------------- What? |
Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: February 28 2008 at 22:30
^^ Sure, all words are made up. 
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Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: February 28 2008 at 22:31
Thank you Finn!
 As usual, youre spot on ! I witnessed first hand how vitriolic and blind was their fury against the "wunderkinds" , calling them elitist arses!  If you youngers guys don't believe it look it up its somewhere on the net ! Punkers spent more time vomiting than addressing IMPORTANT issues. At least Geldof cared! What pains me is that only a handful (such as Magazine and Ultravox ) kept the prog vibe going, in the meantime.As far as social comments go, Ian Anderson, Fish and recently Steve Wilson have certainly tackled corporate idiocy, social morass and youth apathy. ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 28 2008 at 22:40
 same here...------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: February 28 2008 at 22:53
Thanks Tom, though I know I'm not exactly the first to point out the irony of the punkers.  ------------- |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: February 28 2008 at 23:59
 "I Hate Pink Floyd." Wonderful. A few decades later, we see http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed.nsf/mndwebpages/rotten%20i%20love%20pink%20floyd - this : "How could you hate Pink Floyd? It's like saying, 'Kill the fluffy bunnies.' "If you're going to make me a monster, at least give me something worth really rebelling against. "I've run into DAVID GILMOUR several times over the years, and he thinks it's hilarious. He's a great bloke." |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: February 29 2008 at 02:34
| I think someone mentioned Jethro Tull in one of the previous posts. Ian Anderson's lyrics do very often have a message - one of my personal favourites is "My God", which perfectly captures the hypocrisy of organised religion, and the way it uses God for its own ends. |
Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: February 29 2008 at 05:38
I've always been a fan of Punk Floyd (music AND message).  ------------- "The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time." |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: February 29 2008 at 09:12
Maybe it's not. I don't know. I heard an interview with Page and/or Plant many years ago in which they were talking about Stairway to Heaven, and the interviewer asked them what a hedgerow was and they responded that they didn't know, it was something that the other one made up. And I've carried that in the deep recesses of my brain ever since.
"Don't look at the strange man mumbling to himself over here, and maybe he will leave us alone". -------------
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: February 29 2008 at 10:05
I think they were more probably asked what a "bustle in a hedgerow" was - a phrase which left many people scratching their heads wondering why the May Queen should be cleaning a narrow band of wooded vegetation marking the boundary between two fields wearing a Victorian undergarment in springtime. But alas no,
this is a hedgerow:
and a bustle is a rapid and lively commotion, as in hustle'n'bustle (oft mis-spelt as bussle).
Messer's Page & Plant didn't write that many nonsensical lyrics, but they didn't half talk a load of rubbish to journalists when the opportunity arose. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Dreamer
Date Posted: February 29 2008 at 10:25
| I didn't see Frank Zappa mentioned. He always had social and political criticisms. |
Posted By: Lofcaudio
Date Posted: February 29 2008 at 13:29
Which is why that whole passage made more sense when played backwards.
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Posted By: CryoftheCarrots
Date Posted: February 29 2008 at 16:48
Not only Aboriginal rights but moreso environmental issues. That is the reason Peter Garret is now the
Australian minister for the environment. One of my fave bands in my younger days.Awesome live band. ------------- "There is a lot in this world to be tense and intense about" MJK |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 29 2008 at 16:53
that's true.. wasn't the environment the theme of Blue Sky MIning. Scream in Blue Live was a great live album... one of my favorites from that time. I have a funny story about how I discovered this group... but probably not for public forum ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 29 2008 at 23:21
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Gabriel era Genesis were the kings of songs with messages, starting with the name Selling England by the Pound, takes it's name fr9om a Laboiur Party Manifesto.
But you got a lot: for example
I never understood the Punk criticism, maybe they believe raging against everything in the most crude and obvious way is better than intelligent lyrics with message?
Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: February 29 2008 at 23:30
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if a journalist doesn't know what a hedgerow is he deserves to have his chain yanked |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: March 01 2008 at 00:29
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if you were familiar with the British way of gardening you would not ask yourself what a "hedgerow" is. as to bustle: you seem tzo think of this meaning of the word: bus·tle2   https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2Fbustle"> [buhs-uhl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun
there is, however, another meaning of it: bus·tle1 https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2Fbustle"> [buhs-uhl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, -tled, -tling, noun –verb (used without object)
to me it always seemed clear that definition 4 was meant when Led Zeppelin sang about the "bustle in the hedgerow" ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: March 01 2008 at 00:36
I love the Oils, but only have Diesel and Dust (an absolute classic). I'll be getting The Sun and Moon and Sky soon. |
Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: March 01 2008 at 02:27
Heck yes. But the king here (once he gets added, that is) is Todd Rudgren. The guy doesn't shy away from messages in his music. "When you stand, stand for something."
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Posted By: ProgressiveOpinion
Date Posted: March 01 2008 at 19:45
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Did anyone mention Neal Morse? ------------- 
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Posted By: kenmartree
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 04:11
My thoughts exactly when I think about Neil Morse
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Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 09:52
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The messages in Pain of Salvations albums Entropia, One Hour by the Concrete Lake, Be and Scarsick arent hard to find, particualrly the latter two. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005  |
Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 15:49
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The only guy that I really listen to for a message is Todd Rundgren. When he wants to get a message across, he does it well. |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 17:33
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^ "I don't want to work, I want to bang on the drums all day."
Not what you had in mind, but one of my favorite messages. -------------
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Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 18:32
| Definitely NOT what I had in mind, but not a bad message considering..... |
Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: March 03 2008 at 21:04
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The Mothers Of Invention are the masters at this, they had a punk attitude before even such a thing existed. -------------  
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Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: March 04 2008 at 11:02
Mind you, before music, he also started out peddling porn, eh ... Some say that the judicial intervention that put him & his partner out of business also fueled a certain hatred for authority. Though I've never read or heard whether that was because he felt that the police had better things to take care of, or because his source of income was taken away. Mind you part II - a, if not the major fault of Zappa's (and not limited to him) was an inability to self-critique. Intelligence & wit are great, but self satisfied smarminess as if you are "obviously" superior to others will give detractors a field day. All they have to do is find the one mistake or incorrect opinion to sink the rest of the message. And believe me, there are many things in Zappa's lyrics that can be justifiably attacked as being inappropriate, ill advised & sometimes, frankly just plain in execrably bad taste. Add to that the unwillingness to ever apologise for even the most obvious transgressions, nor even to bother to specifically address such concerns directly by explaining his intent in such songs. So, too often your average Joe has reason to wonder where the line between critique of & belief in was. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: March 04 2008 at 11:12
Are you taking into account that Floyd was part of the system? Enjoying the privileges accorded to the wealthy, and taking lyrical shots at the same system seems a tad hypocritical. I don't remember any political activities from any of PF's members. And that accusation can be readily deployed against most of the punkers. All talk, no action. And apply that to fans - insist on the importance & universal truth in the lyrical messages expounded by your musical idols, then stay home watching TV instead of working for or against political parties, participating in organizations looking to influence or pressure government(s) to enact changes. It's like buying diet & fitness books by the carload, then settling down to a weekend of beer, cheesies & DVDs. PARTICIPATE ! Vote, contribute, work for or against candidates, sign petitions, protest, just do something. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: March 04 2008 at 11:21
Maybe, but even an idiot may come up with wisdom at times. As much as I "get" the social & political bent of Rush lyrics, after a certain point they get clunky. The wordsmith looks to fit his message into a 4 minute song. And what may sound well in conversation comes across as forced & preachy in song. Check out Test for Echo from Rush - Half the World knows this already, the other half's lot is not affected in the least by words to a pop song. The main problem with "older" acts playing the social conciousness game is that it rarely comes across as natural. Almost as if they noticed that they are adults & must show responsability in their positions of cultural icons or musical idols. Give Johnny Cash a listen. When the man in black had something to say, he said it straight & backed it up with years of quiet activism. But he also knew that he was an entertainer, a singer. And as the final nail in the coffin for the importance of "message music" - Woodstock, Live Aid, Farm Aid, Live 8, Free Tibet etc... Let's all quote Keef who said that it was all something for the "Sirs" to feel good about themselves. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: March 04 2008 at 11:23
And some of them come back to bite your ass. VH tickets for $XXXX anyone ? ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: March 04 2008 at 11:34
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Robert Wyatt has been writing songs from a left wing perspective since Matching Mole's Little Red Record, attacking racism, xenophobia, hypocrisy, greed and imperialism. He's also written some of the most achingly poignant and beautiful love songs ever.
Henry Cow were similarly uncompromising, with unambiguous political messages in both their lyrics and artwork. Chris Cutler, Tim Hodgkinson and Lindsay Cooper have all comtinued to do so throughout their subsequent careers. ------------- 'Like so many of you I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |