Now, I have always had a deep aversion to any band that features unintelligible guttural growling HM vocals (I'm an old fart), and this occassionally features the very same. The suprise is I haven't turned it off, as musically it is very inventive, time & key changes a-plenty, and with completely schizophrenic style changes, sometimes in the same song, "Hessian Peel" being a case in point.

 

I won't be buying it though simply because of the annoying mock horror vox that creep in now and again. Here's my point - would they not be better off ditching the growling and thereby guaranteeing a much bigger audience? i would have thought they were too prog for a metal audience anyway.

 

To sum it up for me: Their vocals, maybe the most controversial thing about this band here, are part of the music. I also hated it a long time. For I came to prog from the metal side, every word might be preoccupied by evil monster singers

There's the rub - Opeth is that magical balance of death and clean vocals coupled with music that is both Prog and Metal in perfect proportions. Opeth themselves have shown that they can leave out any single element without the house of cards collapsing ... they remain Opeth, yet it is only when heard in context of a complete album that the whole thing really works as Opeth.

 

For me, Damnation has to be heard in context - i.e. with Deliverance.

 

MikeEnRegalia - of course you're right about me being a fan of the the mighty Krim (of some 35 years!!), but if they ditched the "avant " (not avant at all IMO, just very technical musicans) stuff, and became huge, Mr Fripp would probably never play as KC again, just to annoy everyone, contrary bugger that he is. He's already said they'll never play in Europe again, somethimg to do wuth inconsistent hotels - Wot a grouch!

 

Dargdean - love that pic of Mrs Fripp!!

 

 

Incidentally, if you think KC are avant garde, you ain't heard Henry Cow or Slapp Happy or Magma or Miasma or countless other unlistenable (for some) bands.

 

other than that, everyone else has pretty much covered it.  the beauty/brutality balance is what makes the band.

 

But you can't call Watershed metal can you? The only thing that "metals" it is the occasional growl, which goes back to my original point. They appear to me at least to be heading in a far more prog than metal direction, which is why the growls seem out of place.

 

Look at it this way.

 

Martin Lopez's drumming style usually consisted of double bass pedal beats more often than not. He was more jazz oriented and more beat oriented. Martin Axenrot has named one his influences to be Ian Paice. He's more rock oriented, rock of that kind usually has drum fills. The new drummer doesn't make such big use of double bass pedals like Martin Lopez did.

 

Basically, the new members are making the sounds more progressive.

 

 

 

 

I didn't say it wasn't metal based, merely that it wasn't metal per se. I think this thread has gone as far as sensible debate will allow. Time to stop!

 

I do not have a problem with "growling" (as it's become known), where it's used contextually, and "feels" right.

 

To my ears, no matter how many times I listen to Opeth, it never feels right, contextually.

 

The "growling" is not bad - maybe a bit pretentiously done, as you don't get that feeling of lung regurgitation that experts like Schuldiner produced, or of having swallowed a truck load of gravel and bike oil as Lemmy's voice suggests - both of which are entirely appropriate to their music.

 

I don't even mind singers who go from clean to growl - Dani Filth is amazing at that.

 

NOTE: I'm fully aware of the reputation Cradle of Filth have among Prog and Metal fans, and reject it wholesale.

 

Their music is certainly more progressive by far than Opeth have so far proven to be, to my ears.

 

 

(waits for tumultuous cries of "Oh no they're not", "You don't know what you're talking about", "You just hate Opeth" and other such predictable drivel).

 

I didn't say it wasn't metal based, merely that it wasn't metal per se. I think this thread has gone as far as sensible debate will allow. Time to stop!

 

I also think its funny that a preference or an opinion to growled/screamed vocals are somehow an "age" thing, perhaps you're a bit older than me I dont know, (Im 35), but Ive been down with the growled vocals since the days of Possessed, Death and so forth, so Im not sure how age plays into a such a preference,

 

... I think that's down to musical differences - it's difficult to compare CoFs Maiden influenced symphonic black metal with Magma's unique symphonic jazz minimalism.

 

I *love* CoF and have done so since The Principle of Evil Made Flesh and agree that they blend a sizable dose of humour with their highly structured music that makes them unique withn BM circles. I just wish they had recorded http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victorian_England_Under_Martian_Rule - Victorian England Under Martian Rule instead of the rather dire Midian