Jimmy Carl Black - RIP
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50855
Printed Date: July 18 2025 at 15:44
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Topic: Jimmy Carl Black - RIP
Posted By: Jim Garten
Subject: Jimmy Carl Black - RIP
Date Posted: August 11 2008 at 07:53
|
I only found out on Saturday when watching the excellent Muffin Men at the Cropredy festival, that one of the original Mothers Of Invention, Jimmy Carl Black is none too well:
Then: 
Now: 
Apparently diagnosed with leukemia 4 years ago & now in hospital undergoing further tests on his chest, he was unable to travel from Germany last week, so missed out on playing a triumphant return gig at Cropredy (when they last played 3 years ago there was nearly a riot when they didn't get an encore - hah! rioting folk fans, eh?  )
I don't know if this subject has been covered before, but I'm sure all Zappa fans here would join me in wishing him all the best & hope for a speedy recovery. Let's hear it for the Indian of the group! ------------- 
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Replies:
Posted By: fusionfreak
Date Posted: August 11 2008 at 08:07
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Best wishes to Jimmy Carl Black! ------------- I was born in the land of Mahavishnu,not so far from Kobaia.I'm looking for the world of searchers with the help from crimson king |
Posted By: Astrodomine
Date Posted: August 11 2008 at 08:21
| Best wishes to one of the greatest mothers musician. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: August 11 2008 at 10:21
He's the Indian of the group... 
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
|
Posted By: song_of_copper
Date Posted: August 11 2008 at 11:35
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Yes indeed, bestest get well wishes to Jimmy Carl Black! I went to a concert of the Muffin Men a few years ago and I seem to remember there being some mention of him being in not such good health. He was on good form though, I even got to speak to him and got his autograph! Quite a lovely moment for a Mothersophile such as myself. Hope he will soon be on the mend. (Of course, he is 'Harder Than Your Husband', made of stern stuff indeed... ) |
Posted By: Nightfly
Date Posted: August 11 2008 at 12:53
| Yes likewise, wishing him a speedy recovery. |
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: August 11 2008 at 16:01
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best wishes Jimmy!!! -------------  |
Posted By: Frippertron
Date Posted: August 12 2008 at 08:01
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I have met and spoken to Jimmy Carl Black and he is a real nice approachable guy.
Loved the guy.. Yeah knew about his illness years ago, at the time I wished him all the best, then he went on to talk about The Grandmothers to me.
As said before.. Very nice bloke.
Get well soon JCB ------------- The Cheerful Insanity of Prog Rock |
Posted By: jimidom
Date Posted: August 12 2008 at 09:51
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Best wishes and prayers for a speedy recovery, JCB! ------------- "The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." - HST |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: August 12 2008 at 19:44
| Yep best wishes to the Indian of the group. |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: August 19 2008 at 04:03
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I'm surprised more people havent commented....
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm 
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Posted By: JethroZappa
Date Posted: August 19 2008 at 12:37
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Best whishes, Indian!
------------- "I hope they all get an indigestion, I hope, hope, hope, hope, hope!" |
Posted By: twostikks
Date Posted: August 19 2008 at 12:42
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Best wishes to JCB, a real Mother.
------------- Gary "... people will always be tempted to wipe their feet on anything with WELCOME written on it" Andy Partridge |
Posted By: Nipsey88
Date Posted: August 30 2008 at 00:11
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Bah, if there were justice in the universe, all Freaks, Geeks, Mothers, Truckers, Proggers, Loggers, and Froggers would live forever... Here's to you Jimmy...everyone that makes me grin that stupid ear to ear grin deserves the best the universe has to offer.  Oops, apparently, I forgot to mention...he was the Indian of the group. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Nipsey88/?chartstyle=myspace02" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: sigod
Date Posted: August 30 2008 at 18:40
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Indeed, let me add my 'get well soon' to the growing pile.
------------- I must remind the right honourable gentleman that a monologue is not a decision. - Clement Atlee, on Winston Churchill |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: September 05 2008 at 03:47
More wishes and prayers for the sooner-than-later recovery of a helluva Mother! 
------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: September 07 2008 at 00:32
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oh dear...I really hope he's ok, he was one of the things that made the Mothers great -------------  
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Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: November 03 2008 at 17:23
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R.I.P. JCB ------------- jc |
Posted By: Tuzvihar
Date Posted: November 03 2008 at 17:40
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Yeah... R.I.P. From his official website: "Jimmy passed away peacefully last night Saturday 11/01/08 at 11:00 o'clock pm. Jimmy says hi to everybody and he doesn't want anybody to be sad." ------------- "Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent." Charles Bukowski |
Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: November 03 2008 at 17:57
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Sad news, although he seemed to pass away with a smile on his face.. Rest in Peace, Jimmy! You will be missed!
------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! |
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: November 03 2008 at 18:35
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Sadly I had to change this topic title.
RIP - JCB ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: Chris H
Date Posted: November 03 2008 at 18:43
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What a dark day for music lovers in general.
RIP Jimmy Carl Black...you will be missed by many. ------------- Beauty will save the world. 
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Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: November 03 2008 at 19:50
| Sad day indeed. He was a Mother from the very start. |
Posted By: febus
Date Posted: November 03 2008 at 19:56
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Sad news....seem a lot of people are leaving us lately!! At least he will be seeing again FRANCK ZAPPA upthere!!
 |
Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: November 03 2008 at 20:03
I have started to think about this since Rick Wright's death. I mean in 5 years time probably all of the greats will be gone. What's gonna happen to rock music? I am not leaving this just to prog , but mainstream rock Like The Rolling Stones , Bob Dylan , Neil Young , Aerosmith. It does not matter if you like them or not , but the point is that I don't want U2 to be the ultimate rock legend on earth. Bands nowadays suck. Who's gonna replace the Rolling Stones??.......................................................... The White Stripes????? That scares the s*it out of me.
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febus wrote:Posted By: Chris H
Date Posted: November 03 2008 at 20:13
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That's true...we live in a sad era because we have to just sit back and watch our heroes pass by and there will never be anyone to take their place. ------------- Beauty will save the world.
|
Posted By: febus
Date Posted: November 03 2008 at 20:19
I undestand what you feel
 ....sure from now some of the greats will leave us but not everybody within 5 years from now .....a lot of the ''classic'' stars are in their 60s, still not the end of time yet.......ELP still has plenty of time left to produce TARKUS part 2  ............and i am sure Mick Jagger has plenty of Rollin Stones tours in mind in the future.............Geez!!!! Even K Richards is still alive....there is still hope |
Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: November 03 2008 at 20:29
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It's weird , all the greats came from a time when playing rock music was rebellious , and they always had a will to improve and experiment. They released an album a year , at least. And to know them you had to be there , I mean buy the record going to a concert , buying a magazine waiting a whole year for a record to be released , seeing your favourite band changing their sound. It's not like nowdays that in a couple of hours I can download all Genesis discography.And read lots of articles on the net. 40 years ago I guess It was much more romantic in a sense.
Let's put The Rolling stones as an example , you can say that nowdays they are a corporate monster , however I want to see all those punks (Not meaning punk rockers) in MTV having a career lasting for more than 40 years and making world tours.
The Stones are old and full of money.But when Mick Jagger sings a tune I still believe him , no matter if he is ricker than the Queen of England. They still are on the road. Same as Bob dylan.
Probably Rock and roll is not a suitable way of expression anymore.
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Posted By: febus
Date Posted: November 03 2008 at 20:34
The Rolling Stones were already touring when i was a little kid...and they still do!!! Great.for the mind....
The day they are over, i may start actually feeling old
................Keep it up, Mick!!! |
Posted By: jimidom
Date Posted: November 04 2008 at 13:30
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R.I.P. Jimmy Carl Black. Thanks for all the great music!
------------- "The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." - HST |
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: November 04 2008 at 13:33
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R.I.P. Jimmy hope that you can paly with FZ those nasty songs in the first incarnation of the mothers ------------- |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: November 04 2008 at 13:57
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One of the last "Great Whales". Another. I'm a bit upset and I would like to adress a message to all former Mothers Of Invention and musicians of Frank Zappa: stop dying, especially if you're the Indian of the band. |
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: November 04 2008 at 14:00
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Met the man a couple of times - friendly, funny, genuine, open.
Sleep well, Jimmy! -------------
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: November 04 2008 at 16:48
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RIP the guy.
Why is this thread in the main prog lounge and the singer of CURRENT band Shadow Gallery's obituary buried in secondary lounges?
Anyway, RIP this unknown (to me) musician. He must've been talented. ------------- 
|
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: November 04 2008 at 16:55
 Imagine, he was the first drummer of FZ in fact he formed the Soul Giants with Roy Estrada and FZ join them, transforming The Soul Giants to Mothers of Invention ------------- |
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: November 05 2008 at 04:06
From The Guardian (UK): Jimmy Carl Black, who has died of cancer aged 70, was drummer and sometimes lead vocalist with Frank Zappa's Mothers of Invention between 1965 and the group's bitter break-up in 1970. The Mothers created concerts and albums that mixed pop-Dada, 1950s doo-wop, jazz, schmaltz, Stravinsky, Varèse and Webern. Black was to the fore as Lonesome Cowboy Burt, a highlight of Zappa's 200 Motels movie (1971). He was the man who introduced himself as "the Indian of the group" on the band's album, We're Only in It for the Money (1968), and was a central figure in If We'd All Been Living in California, a dialogue on corporate finances on Uncle Meat (1969). Black, who inherited Cheyenne blood from his mother, was born in El Paso, Texas, but grew up in nearby Anthony on the New Mexican border. He was a soloist in his high school band's brass section, "but I realised that there was no chance in rock'n'roll for a trumpeter, after Elvis Presley appeared at El Paso Coliseum in 1955. When I saw the effect he had on those women, I thought, 'Man. That's what I want to do!'" Though he could strum a guitar and had had piano lessons, Black bought a drum kit and practised by playing along mostly to black rhythm and blues records. While serving in the US air force, he joined a country and western trio, Them Three Guys, and, following demobilisation in 1958, played mainstream pop with the Surfs and then the Keys - with whom Black recorded Stretch Pants (1962). Two years later, he moved to Los Angeles, and formed the Soul Giants, who played LA dance halls. When the guitarist was drafted into the army, he was replaced by Zappa, who told the band, according to Black, that "if you guys learn my music, I'll make you rich and famous". "He took care of half of that promise," said Black, "because I'm damn sure I didn't get rich." Renamed the Mothers of Invention, the group followed Zappa's masterplan to a qualified prosperity via concerts and, later, albums. "Frank made me aware of modern classical stuff," said Black, "and very patiently taught me all those complex rhythms and time signatures." But Black became increasingly unhappy about Zappa's control. He resented the enlistment of a second drummer, and Zappa claiming authorship of tracks such as If We'd All Been Living in California. "I never knew he'd taped it at a band meeting," he complained. "I wasn't credited. Everything was 'written, arranged and produced by Frank Zappa'. Then a week after a successful tour, he called us together and said, 'I've decided to break up the band. Your salaries have stopped as from last week.' It was a big shock. I had five kids to feed." Postscripts to Black's tenure with Zappa embraced his role in 200 Motels, and an exhumation in 1981 of his character in it, Lonesome Cowboy Burt, for Harder Than Your Husband on Zappa's You Are What You Is album. In 1972 Black had success with two albums as leader of Geronimo Black, named after his youngest son. But by 1974 a Melody Maker interview was conducted in Winebel's Donuts, where he was, indeed, making doughnuts. He then moved to Albuquerque, New Mexico, released a solo album, Clearly Classic, which achieved minimal circulation, and joined a Captain Beefheart and his Magic Band world tour. Black then settled in Austin, Texas, where he established the Gentlemen of Colour, a building-and-decorating business with Arthur Brown, the English star of the 1960s Crazy World of Arthur Brown. The firm flourished for 10 years - as did an artistic liaison which was to culminate in an album of R&B standards, Brown, Black and Blue (1980). Black was also performing with Eugene Chadbourne - "the free-est form guitar player I've ever met" - and the Grandmothers, initially, former Mothers band members fronted by the Italian guitarist and Frank Zappa lookalike Sandro Oliva. Their CDs included a concert recorded in 1998 at London's Astoria theatre. Increasing success in Europe led Black to move to Vicenza, Italy with his then wife, a schoolteacher with the US army. After her death, he moved to Germany, home of his second wife Monika. In 1995 he began playing with the Muffin Men, the best British interpreters of the work of Zappa and Beefheart. Black was on the road with the group as recently as 2007. Assisted by Roddie Gilliard of the Muffin Men, he was working on an autobiography, For Mother's Sake. He is survived by Monika, three sons and two daughters. • James Carl Inkanish Black, drummer and singer, born February 1 1938; died November 1 2008 -------------
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: Alucard
Date Posted: November 05 2008 at 05:11
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I didn't knew he was so ill....just a couple of days ago I got a great Zappa concert recording from 1975 in El Paso and as quite often Zappa had invited JCB to sing a couple of songs during the show and this was kind of a special occasion, because it was Jimmy's hometown and he got this really touching way to sing these old R&B tunes....welcome to Pachuco heaven.....
------------- Tadpoles keep screaming in my ear "Hey there! Rotter's Club! Explain the meaning of this song and share it" |
Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: November 05 2008 at 06:01
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A sad loss indeed. RIP JCB, and thanks for the music. ------------- 'Like so many of you I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
Posted By: Eetu Pellonpaa
Date Posted: November 05 2008 at 06:24
Farewell Jimmy... 
Thank you for all the laughter and music!
|
Posted By: zappaholic
Date Posted: November 05 2008 at 11:25
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*pours one out for Jim*
------------- "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken |
Posted By: Chicapah
Date Posted: November 05 2008 at 12:13
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Rest in peace, Mr. Black. ------------- "Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: November 05 2008 at 16:48
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Gah!
So many going this year...
Sad to hear. Will bust out some early mothers tonight in memory of him.
Rest In Peace Jim...you will forever be the indian of the group. Thanks for the music. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: November 05 2008 at 20:56
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one thing rarely mentioned in the rapturous & adoring reverence for Zappa was his firing of the original Mothers. A phone call "You're fired. Your last pay is this week". JCB said it was a cold way to do things. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: November 06 2008 at 10:18
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Rest in peace Jimmy Carl Black. ------------- 
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Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: November 06 2008 at 21:26
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Let's not forget the great meeting of what were two pioneers:
Brown, Black & Blue
Jimmy and Arthur Brown...
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Posted By: caquintet
Date Posted: November 12 2008 at 12:23
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What sad news on the death of a great Drummer and unique personality....The mothers would have not been complete without Jimmy...What a fine legacy of albums he left behind....so i hope your enjoying the great gig in the sky. I think i will get out and watch "uncle meat and Burnt weeny sandwich" to remind me of his great talent. ------------- Lives of great men all remind us we must make our lives sublime and departing leave behind us footprints in the sands of time |
Posted By: theproglady
Date Posted: November 12 2008 at 13:36
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"Jimmy passed
away peacefully last night Saturday 11/01/08 at 11:00 o'clock
pm. Jimmy says hi to everybody and he doesn't want anybody to be
sad." oh man, I cant' help it but that quote did make me feel sad! It's so sweet. I read on Jimmy's wikipedia page recently that Walter Becker (unsuccessfully) campaigned to have Jimmy accepted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I'm a big Steely Dan fan too, so I thought that was cool. I played a few Mothers' songs and two Geronimo Black songs on my radio show this week to remember him. They should have inducted him into that stupid Hall of Fame! |